hand dovetailing

[ditchy]

can someone please inform me if a jig for HAND dovetailing is available,not a router jig i want to try the "old fashioned" way, it is more authentic and will give me great satisfaction to achieve this joint by hand tools only, thanx...............ditchy

[Wood Borer]

Ditchy,

Fantastic you want to do them by hand.

You don't really need a jig although there are guides sold by Carba-Tec and MIK (Adelaide) that hold your saw straight when you are cutting them.

Without a jig, you only need a bevel gauge, square, marking gauge, dovetail saw, pencil, mallet and some sharp chisels. Oh two or more bits of wood to join together.

Get a good woodwork book out of the library and have a read. It is possible to teach yourself.

I haven't got any jigs, taught myself and no longer hide my dovetails from my woodwork mates.

- Wood Borer

[stevepay]

good to see more people giving hand dovetailing a go, good onya Ditchy.

my first few attempts were pretty ordinary so I would recomend if you haven't done it before to use some scrap wood for the first few go's

steve:)

[AlexS]

Woodborer's right, after a bit of practice it's not too hard to do nice hand-cut dovetails without a jig. There are all sorts of arguments about how to do it (pins or tails first etc) but the secret is to find a way that works for you and practice it.

There's nothing like the satisfaction of a nice set of hand cut dovetails on a box or drawer, and having people ask 'Did you do that on a machine?'

[derekcohen]

Ditchy

Veritas make a jig to handcut dovetails. Can come with a dedicated dovetail saw or be used with your own. This is the one Wood Borer is referring to. Contact Carba-tec. I have it - excellent quality and quite inexpensive.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[arose62]

Popular Woodworking had an article by Jim Stuard.

Basically, a dovetail-specific saw guide.

I'm pretty sure this is a link to a copy of it:

http://woodcentral.com/bparticles/dovetailbw.pdf

Cheers,
Andrew

[Driver]

Ditchy

A couple of months ago, I bought the Veritas guide that Derek refers to. I've been practicing and improving my skills making handcut dovetails on weekends since then. It is very satisfying - especially when you make the first joint that works!

Go for it and good luck!

Col

[arose62]

Oops! Looks like the link I posted is now dead.

Try this one:

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/features/fea.asp?id=1087

Cheers,
Andrew

[Fantapantz]

No jig needed just concentration...........hardwood 1:8 softwood 1:6........ The size of the pins (dovetails) and socket is personal choice to a large degree......

My main advice is mark out the pins and socket at the same time and get that out of the way. A lot of books say mark the socket from the pins but heck.......when you mark out it should be done accurately so you can do both at the same time.....

The main trick to it is complete the pins (until there perfect) and then start on the socket. You can't make a socket with squiggly sides. Check your marking out by placing the completed dovetails over the socket before EVERY sawcut (ensuring that the edge lines up). Easy with practice.......but thats just because you learn to concentrate after you make a few mistakes.

[ditchy]

thanx to all, every bit of knowledge i can glean is helpful.

much appreciated.

this site is sensational!!!!!

cheers,

ditchy.................:cool:

[alf t]

Hate to be the fly in the ointment here but who other than the maker cares a stuff about hand cut dovetails . I use an Incra Jig and you don't really need to glue them they are so exact and no one has yet told me that they would have preferred hand cut joints.
I read someone lamenting about the fact that we were using electric tools and jigs to make things........is someone still using a stone axe to cut wood?

Alf

[ditchy]

alf t, yep, you are the fly.

the fact that the maker is the hardest person to please on any project, or at least the biggest critic,is the reason some of us wish to try the old way and achieve something by hand. a fair degree of skill and patience is required in this pursuit of satisfaction. any idiot with a power tool can make perfect joints, so those of us that choose to test our skill should be encouraged and congratulated.

some of us care a stuff.

thank you very much.

cheers,

ditchy.......................

[Red neck]

Ditchy,

Don’t be too hard on Alf. I think the point he is making is that the stone axe was replaced by the hand-saw and chisel. This in turn was superseded by the router and jig. Perhaps the next move will be some laser guided cutting device, or maybe trees will be overtaken by plastics.

The main issue is the construction of the joint and I believe all the present options for cutting dovetails require skill on the part of the axe, saw or router operator. By comparison much of the production furniture available today is cut using computerised equipment and this simply means that some computer nerds are clever at programming!

An examination of several router-cut dovetail joints will show varying standards attributed to the skill of the operator.

Ditchy, as an aside I admire your perseverance in carrying on the traditions of a fine art.

[Fantapantz]

It all comes down to "pride in workmanship" and the natural feel of timber. You feel the timber when you do it by hand. Those who prefer the feel of constructing joints by machine probably prefer the feel of chipboard.........:p

[Eastie]

Not necessarily the case. Most of us have developed a higher level of skills (progressed to living in houses, not trees) and have thus moved away from predominant hand tool usage. Don’t get me wrong, a hand saw and axe still have their uses, and if I had more time I might even think of some.
As for chipboard, any decent woodworker would not be taken aback by chipboard as they would have an understanding the the finish is the first thing the eyes see and the first thing the hand touches (quote - unquote) and thus would be obliged to apply a spectacular and sensuous finish to this most versatile product.

http://www.ubeaut.biz/bash.gif

PS - on the topic, I haven't used the Veritas jig, but a mate owns one and recons it's great - keeps urging me to borrow it, but having a leigh it’s like using a sling shot to kill a horse (happy birthday to all horses :D) – it can be done, but there are better ways.

PPS - derek, don't read too much into it, it's friday after all :D

[derekcohen]

Children

Arguing handcut vs machine cut dovetails is a no-win affair. It is a matter of "different strokes for different folks". I do both. My machine cutting days are moving further and further into the past, however, and I can say that I'd only do this now if I had a great number to do and a tight deadline. But, since this is a hobby and not a profession, and I try not to let myself fall into the trap of deadlines, I am able to enjoy the time and effort that goes into improving my handcutting. Then again, my preference is for hand working everything, and this is a personal thing. Some "machinists" don't get "it" this way, others sit on the fence, and others wish to but don't have the confidence to extend their skills - yet. This is NOT a criticism, just a recognition that we may be at different places in our lives at the time.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[journeyman Mick]

Originally posted by Fantapantz
It all comes down to "pride in workmanship" and the natural feel of timber. You feel the timber when you do it by hand. Those who prefer the feel of constructing joints by machine probably prefer the feel of chipboard.........:p

Actually for me it comes down to doing the best quality, economically viable and physically sustainable work I can. I own motorised, mechanised or pneumatic powered tools for most of the processes I use yet I've just found out, at age 41 that my right shoulder is worn out (getting scans done next week, hopefully won't require surgery). There may be a tremendous amount of satisfaction derived from hand cutting dovetails or taking paper thin shavings with a perfectly tuned antique plane, but ask someone that does it for a living how they would best perform an operation and I think in most cases the answer will be along the lines of: "with the least amount of effort required to get a quality outcome".:)

Mick

[kenmil]

Originally posted by alf t
Hate to be the fly in the ointment here but who other than the maker cares a stuff about hand cut dovetails . I use an Incra Jig and you don't really need to glue them they are so exact and no one has yet told me that they would have preferred hand cut joints.
I read someone lamenting about the fact that we were using electric tools and jigs to make things........is someone still using a stone axe to cut wood?

Alf

Alf,

I agree with you. Some would have us believe that anything produced on a machine of any sort is somehow "impure" and that we all should revert to the old ways. I personally find it a bit ironic that this message is invariably delivered via a computer.:confused: Perhaps they are typed on a stone keyboard ?:D

[Dan]

Machine or hand ?
Which one is best ?

Either one, your choice. :)

[kenmil]

Exactly.;)

[ditchy]

great to see differing opinions on this topic.

hope we all achieve the level of satisfaction we are looking for whichever path we choose to follow.

for me its trying to dovetail by hand, for others, machines are the go.

no deadlines for me, just a hobby and a challenge that i wish to pursue.

good luck to all and happy woodworking.

cheers,

ditchy........:cool:

[Dan]

There was a bloke showing these at the Brisbane wood show. He was using a Japanese saw with it and the only problem I can see is the need to have a fair bit of width next to your cut to clamp it onto the timber.
http://www.anglemag.com/

[mikev]

Hi I'm new here, my 2 cents worth is that if you feel like making them by hand do so.
If they work out well all the better. You will have your own personal satisfaction with the results.

[ClintO]

I can understand where Ditchy is coming from. I am also practicing my hand dovetailing having dug out my old high school woodwork text book.
For me its a diversion but also a learning experience. I often think that it is necessary to do some things the hard way before learning the easy way (memories of high school calculus).
I will learn far more about woodwork by hand dovetailing than I would by rushing and clamping a couple of pieces of wood in a jig and using the router.
I am learning about marking out, using saws and chisels and sahrpening chisels as well.
When I have mastered it, or more likely, got sick of doing it the hard way, I am sure I will be getting the appropriate jig and router.

[derekcohen]

When I have mastered it, or more likely, got sick of doing it the hard way, I am sure I will be getting the appropriate jig and router.

I'm betting that you won't!!!

Regards from Perth

Derek;)

[Ben from Vic.]

I would like to have a decent jig (leigh D4) and the ability to do them well by hand.

This way I could vary my method depending on what I was making, how long I had to do it and which method took my fancy. :D

My 22 cents worth.

Flame away. http://www.ubeaut.biz/flamer.gif


Ben ;)

[Wood Borer]

When I couldn't afford a jig, I drooled and wished I had a jig but finances forced me to learn to make them by hand.

Times have changed and I can easily afford a good dovetail jig but I won't be buying one because I am very happy with the results making them by hand.

I would only consider buying a jig if I had to make dovetails in commercial quantities but that is not likely for an amateur like myself.

- Wood Borer

[jshaw]

Ditchy,

My old woodwork teacher at school used to despair of the lousy dovetails we turned out for him. The old guy's been dead nearly 20 years now, but I still think of him every time I cut a dovetail. When I came back to woodwork 17 years out of school I decided to start by hand so that I could (re-)learn the basics, then add in power stuff and jigs as and when I wanted to. As a result I am now hand-cutting joints that I'm no longer ashamed of (though I wouldn't go so far as to say they're good!). These days I tend to use the Gifkins jig for little boxes and a mix of power and hand for larger stuff/furniture. I often use a dovetail bit in the router table for one half and hand cut the other. So, maybe there is a halfway house between the hand tool gurus and the guys that prefer to (need to in the professional world) use power tools. In the end, do whatever lights your candle, but starting by hand can give you a better understanding of the process. Just my thoughts ...

Cheers,
John

[John Saxton]

This topic has been around the traps before and there are of course afficianado's attempting to benefit us all with their skills at both means of producing Joints.

For me it's a case of personal satisfaction in producing a joint that you'll know will work when the situation demands it ....if there are just a few to do I'll approach the task using hand skills taught in school some 40 yrs back or with my fathers guidance when I was just a mere lad.

However I have over time invested in Jigs like the Leigh and the Incra which are both invaluable with the ease of multiple reproduction precisely what they are intended for and adaptable over a multitude of functions.

Providing that one derives pleasure in the craft of woodworking then the means that he does so is immeasurable and will hold him/her in good stead at achieving good clean joints in pursuance of his hobby/craft.

Cheers:)