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rhancock
8th May 2007, 10:20 PM
Hi there,

Does anyone have any experience in using manual lathes? I don't want to use power lathes, but I"m thinking about starting turning chisel handles, drawer knobs etc.

Cheers, Richard

scooter
8th May 2007, 10:40 PM
Gday Richard, try googling pole lathe , here's one (http://home.vicnet.net.au/%7Epwguild/a-pole.htm).


Cheers................Sean

rhancock
8th May 2007, 10:43 PM
Thanks Sean. I hadn't thought that making one myself would be realistic, I was expecting to start scouring ebay, but this looks good. I was thinking of treadle lathes - in the way of the treadle sewing machines that used to be around.

joe greiner
8th May 2007, 11:23 PM
The problem with a spring-pole lathe is you only cut on the down stroke; similar to a scroll saw.

Here's a source of plans for a DIY treadle lathe:

http://www.manytracks.com/lathe/default.htm

Free E-book or pdf, or $ for a CD.

Joe

Skew ChiDAMN!!
9th May 2007, 06:24 PM
OK, you got my attention. :D

In the past I posted this thread (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=41189&) showing my li'l treadle powered baby... so what do you want to know?


The problem with a spring-pole lathe is you only cut on the down stroke; similar to a scroll saw.

Joe, I saw an old bodger making mugs on a pole lathe and he was cutting on both strokes. However, to do the outside he positioned a stop block to prevent the blank from turning a full revolution, which left a segment of material behind that he carved a handle into. WIth less than one revolution per stroke, I can't say he was getting any great RPMs up, :D but he was certainly removing material quickly...

Amazing stuff to watch.

rhancock
9th May 2007, 08:22 PM
OK, you got my attention. :D

In the past I posted this thread (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=41189&) showing my li'l treadle powered baby... so what do you want to know?

I suppose, are they any good to use? How does it compare to using an electric lathe? Is there anything they can / can't do? Your treadle lathe is what I was thinking of, having grown up with Singer treadle sewing machines. I want to avoid buying more power tools if possible, and I don't envisage doing a lot of work on it, more to 'play' at making chisel handles, drawer knobs and tops for the kids.

soundman
9th May 2007, 10:23 PM
There is no comparison between a powered lathe and any manual lathe.

lets start with the power.
maximum human power output.... superfit cyclist..... using both legs.... peak output..... somewhere arround 600 watts.... for about 30 sec.

power output of my mini lathe......tiny little motor.... 400-500 watts all day.

A human powered lathe is certainly a novelty..... under some circumstances a practicality.
But
there is no way a human powered lathe can compete with one powered by an electric motor.

You will end up with fabulous legs though:D :D :D

cheers

rhancock
9th May 2007, 10:28 PM
There is no comparison between a powered lathe and any manual lathe.

lets start with the power.
maximum human power output.... superfit cyclist..... using both legs.... peak output..... somewhere arround 600 watts.... for about 30 sec.

power output of my mini lathe......tiny little motor.... 400-500 watts all day.

A human powered lathe is certainly a novelty..... under some circumstances a practicality.
But
there is no way a human powered lathe can compete with one powered by an electric motor.

You will end up with fabulous legs though:D :D :D

cheers

But on the same reckoning there's no comparison between a hand plane and an electric one, or a hand saw and a circular saw. I agree there's no comparison, but I don't get the c-saw out to cut the end off a piece of dowel, and the electric plane makes a real mess of the edge of a window. And how about comparing the torque in your average cordless drill against a decent brace?

Somewhere I read how power tools make life faster and easier. I'm not looking to make life faster, and not necessarily easier either.

Oh, and although I won't claim to be superfit, I cycle 30km every week.

cedar n silky
9th May 2007, 10:44 PM
A little thing called the industrial revolution took over I guess.
Steam and eventually electricity.:2tsup:
What about solar panels and an inverter if you have concerns for the environment?
Or a water driven lathe? Although we are experiencing a drought at the moment!
I think I would prefer to focus on my bowl gauge and the bowl, rather than how tired my legs are getting!:((
I did use a brace the other day though, with my trusy adjustable Irwin bit. Twas a joy to use- Occasionaly:roll:

soundman
9th May 2007, 10:46 PM
You asked what they can and cant do.

One factor is waht you can and cant do.

you wont have the power or torque to spin a large bowl
you wont be able to achieve many of the tool presentations requierd for many types of work
you wont be able to spend hours turning

pole lathes generaly are limited to spindle work

most of the use of pole lathes was on softer timbers and worked green

As I said there is a level of practicality with man powered lathes but there are significant limitations

If interest is a book "jack hill... country chair making".... you will find it interesting as pole lathes are discussed.

Don't be discouraged..... having a pole lathe in your back yard would be a super cool dark side thing to do. & it'll cost you squat.

cheers

rhancock
9th May 2007, 11:19 PM
Squat is definitely interesting right now! Anything which costs more than $25 has to be approved by committee including the Rt Hon P Costello, Scrooge and SWMBO... and I don't get a vote so Mr Costello doesn't care what I think of him.

I won't be turning bowls, just tops for the kids, door knobs, probably the hardest project would be chisel handles. Although th environment is a concern, I like the idea of being able to do something the 'old fashioned' way. I also don't like noise. I won't be turning for hours. I don't have hours. Maybe one or two every week or two.
"you wont be able to achieve many of the tool presentations requierd for many types of work" I don't understand this statement! Can you be more specific?

I'm already beginning to think that pole lathes are too restrictive - perpetual lathes, with a big / heavy flywheel and a treadle seem to be more what I want.

My woodworking philosophy is a zen one!

Salty
10th May 2007, 12:19 AM
Hi Richard the guy who may be able to get you on the pole lathe path is Howard Archbold - the "Rare Chairs" man. I notice he is on the exhibitors list for the 2007 Sydney WWW show.
Cant seem to find him listed in the directories but I think he is from NSW or ACT
try (02) 6546 3173 or 0408 964 078

Skew ChiDAMN!!
10th May 2007, 12:35 AM
I suppose, are they any good to use? How does it compare to using an electric lathe? Is there anything they can / can't do?

Hmmm... downsides... well... it's a lot harder to apply a friction polish, for starters. :D And they're not the best tool in the world if you want to hog out a lot of material quickly. Mine has a limited throw over, only a few inches, but I believe that one could be made to turn a fairly large blank... I'd think that one could handle a 3' diameter bowl easily enough once it's spun up to speed. Getting it started would be a bit of an effort, but you're only talking in the area of 60-120RPM in the first place, and the rotational momentum would probably make it easier to keep spinning once you get around to applying the tool.

I wouldn't want to try and turn a largish bowl in one session though! :rolleyes: Soundman's right about tool presentation though... you need to develop some new techniques. You can still get the "turner's tango" happening (the sway from side to side) but there are some positions where it's awkward to both treadle and cut at the same time. :shrug: Mainly in deep hollowing, so if you're only planning on doing spindle work, then don't worry about it!

Mine's remarkably quiet if maintained correctly, quiet enough that you can almost hear each fibre cut. :thyel: All in all, a pleasure to use and I won't be putting mine back on the market any time soon... if ever.

joe greiner
10th May 2007, 01:52 AM
Ever seen this guy on the tube in Oz? Or read any of his books? I don't think he'd touch a power tool of any kind.

http://www.pbs.org/wws/

Joe

rhancock
10th May 2007, 08:15 AM
Hmmma friction polish, for starters.... a limited throw over... tool presentation ... You can still get the "turner's tango" happening (the sway from side to side)

I don't know what these mean so I'll do some more lurking on the woodturning forum!

Quiet is definitely what I'm after, and I don't need to work quickly. I don't think I want to make any bowls, only spindle work. I'll also only use it from time to time, so I figure enthusiasm will keep the wheel spinning!

Skew ChiDAMN!!
10th May 2007, 05:47 PM
Are you looking at buying a treadly (not so easy nowadays) or making your own? Either way, I doubt you'd have any regrets. Think of it as the turner's equivalent to sitting on the porch and whittling wood... a nice, peaceful and relaxing way to while away an hour or two, but there are more productive methods available.

It doesn't sound like productions a consideration for you, so happy hunting! Don't forget to post pix of whatever you end up with... I'll be interested even if no-one else is. :D

Some basic descriptions of those terms:
Friction polish (the best is UBeaut's Shellawax :wink: ) are simply a polish applied while the lathe is spinning. When the rag gets hot under your finger, it's just about done. I love the stuff... much better than mucking around waiting for paint to dry. :rolleyes: Throw over, or "swing over," is what sort of radius the lathe can turn. ie. how much gap there is between the lathe bed and the drivespur. My treadly only has around 4" throw, so can only turn up to (but not including) 8" round items. As for the "Turner's Tango"... well, turning is not like painting a wall. You don't move your arms to move the tool along the work, you move your whole body from side to side. This not only keeps the tool held securely in front of you, but also means you can use your wrists and arms solely for the fine adjustment of cutting angle, while your tango looks after the "coarse" side-to-side movement.

Mind you, if you're simply turning items that're only a hand-span long then it'd be a subtle movement that'd take a trained eye to catch... but it should still be there.

flynnsart
11th May 2007, 08:22 PM
I bought my hubby a book called "Green Woodwork" by Mike Abbott some years ago. It has instructions for making a pole lathe in there, which he made with limited woodworking skills from wood we scavenged from the local sawmill rubbish pile. Little did I know how many hours it would keep him entertained for! (and me too for that matter when I could get him away from it:rolleyes: ).

It is incredibly relaxing, but be warned, the time just seems to slip away. We actually turned a lot of ironbark with it as that is what the sawmill was cutting at the time. The kids loved to have a go on it too. As for only cutting on the downstroke, you sort of fall into the rythm of it and it becomes second nature.

Donna