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Stu in Tokyo
11th May 2007, 08:17 PM
OK, this is the latest HF, yes a Work In Progress (WIP).

45895 45896 45897 45898

Notice how deep I went this time round with the captured hollowing rig http://familywoodworking.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

About 25 cm ( 10") and I have to say, that the last cuts were fine cuts, or the whole rig would vibrate something awful, still, it worked well.

I've finished it with sanding sealer and two thinned coats of cellulose lacquer.

I'll let it sit for a while and harden, then sand it some and such.

I'm not sure I'm going to put a cap, or collar on this one, but I've not made up my mind yet.

So, how do I turn off the bottom?

I'm thinking to take it out of the chuck, swap ends, and make a jam chuck for it. The one thing I worry about is the bark inclusion is really weak, I fear that if I put any pressure onto the neck, or spout of the HF, it will crack, so, what I was thinking was to put a LONG jam chuck into the HF so the chuck jams against the inside of the bottom of the HF, if that makes sense.

Suggestions?

Cheers!

joe greiner
11th May 2007, 10:40 PM
That'd probably be the simplest method. Turn a long round thing with one end chucked and the other on the live centre. Make the headstock end close to the HF's opening to keep it centred, but not so snug as to risk damaging the opening. Then, without removing from the chuck, slide the HF onto it and fix the bottom with the live centre. For added safety, I'd wrap the outside of the opening with several wraps of filament tape. Did you do the initial turning between centres? That'd give the tailstock something to engage; otherwise, you may need to fiddle with it a bit to get the bottom centred. When done, shave off the nubbin that received the live centre.

Joe

Stu in Tokyo
12th May 2007, 01:57 AM
Well Joe, that is my plan, the long jam chuck!

I did start it between centers, I like that method.

Cheers!

Stu in Tokyo
12th May 2007, 07:09 AM
OK it worked out fine!

45914
I chucked up this longish piece of Sakura (hard and stable) and turned a nice flat end on it.

45911
I then attached a piece of padding with double sided tape

45912
Here is is all chucked up, ready to turn the bottom off.....

45913
Sanded and ready for the final parting off

It worked!!

WillyInBris
12th May 2007, 10:58 AM
Thanks for sharing Stu a good piece as well :2tsup:.

Stu in Tokyo
12th May 2007, 02:35 PM
Well, here are some pics of the piece done............

45920 45921 45922 45923

I think it turned out alright, for my second completed HF.

Cheers!

lubbing5cherubs
12th May 2007, 06:00 PM
beautiful wood and beautiful piece
Toni

rsser
12th May 2007, 06:39 PM
Nice bit of wood.

Not keen on the shape tho.

Stu in Tokyo
12th May 2007, 08:26 PM
Nice bit of wood.

Not keen on the shape tho.

Could you be a bit more specific?

I'm just starting down this road, so I'm not really sure what makes a good shape, or form.

Seriously, if you don't like it, I know it is often a "Personal Preference" but, I can learn more by having different points of view etc.

Thanks! :D

powderpost
12th May 2007, 10:39 PM
Very challenging piece, well executed. I am always reluctant to find fault with anybody's work, but agree the shape has no definition... in my opinion only. From a design point of view, it is better to base shapes on circles or half circles, elipse or half elipse shapes (squashed circle). Combining these produces an "egg" shape, which can be elongated or compressed. The elongated form would most likely suit this piece better. Again this is only my opinion offered in the hope of helping out. Regards
Jim

WillyInBris
12th May 2007, 10:41 PM
Hi Stu I like the shape and yes I think its a personal thing, as for giving it a lid well I would personally say no but then (I am not trying to stereotype) would people in the country that you live in like it better with a lid?

I really like the light coloured wood that you are using can I ask what it is If I may.:2tsup:

Big Shed
12th May 2007, 10:47 PM
My two bobs worth. I like the shape, it is unusual and makes the most of the features in the piece of wood, it works with the grain features and highlights the dark inclusion (for want of a better word).

Very well executed and finished, I certainly would have been proud to produce such a fine HF.

Thanks sharing Stu, loved the videos too as well as this WIP.

Oh, FWIW, adding a lid would spoil the shape in my opinion.

rsser
12th May 2007, 10:54 PM
Yeah it can of course only be personal preference. But the history of design and of personal choices repeated throws up some aesthetic norms. See posts on the forum on eg. the golden mean or ratio. And take a look at Raffan's book on turned bowl design.

And as you're in the land of Zen you lucky sod check out the classic vessel shapes of Japanese crafts folk.

Edit: FWIW, watch how the eye travels around a piece. Hard to do on your own work I know.

This piece, my eye keeps being drawn to and held by the bottom. Dead end.

Stu in Tokyo
13th May 2007, 01:27 AM
Thanks guys, I really do appreciate all the comments, especially the critical ones :2tsup:

I cannot improve if all I get it "Attaboys" (not that my ego don't mind them :- )

I think the bottom of the piece is not well shown, it is rounder than it looks in these pics, I'll try taking another pic or two of it, from a lower angle.

The whole pic taking stuff is also new to me.

Again, thanks much! :D

joe greiner
13th May 2007, 01:46 AM
The WIP pics show that the bottom is shaped more round than apparent from the final pics. For myself, I like to leave a wee step (abt 1mm or less) at the bottom (like pic 3 of post #4); the bottom then sort of floats above the support. Also, best to trim the bottom concave or with an internal step, so it's supported only by a ring. Less tendency to rock as warping may continue or re-start by the environment.

The shape seems to have captured most of the bark inclusion. I don't think another shape would do as well. I like it a lot.

Joe

Stu in Tokyo
13th May 2007, 05:50 AM
Again, thanks for the honest comments guys! :2tsup:

OK some "better" pics...........:B

46002 46003 46004 46005

So.............. do you like my nice round bottom.............:o :U

Fox3
13th May 2007, 07:24 AM
Lovely and interesting piece. Challenging project too. Speaks highly for your skills!

WillyInBris
13th May 2007, 11:18 AM
So.............. do you like my nice round bottom.............:o :U

I do :B and I am sure your wife does as well :U .

rsser
13th May 2007, 11:57 AM
I second Joe's comment. On many forms a foot of sorts gives a lift.

Edit: yes, the angle of the shot is critical and raises the issue of the angle you look at a work, both in process and finished, and how that changes the way it looks. It's always worth taking the piece off the lathe for a diff view before refining the form.

Stu in Tokyo
13th May 2007, 12:23 PM
Well gents, she loves it, I guess in this case, that is all that counts! :2tsup:

Cheers!

Frank&Earnest
13th May 2007, 03:12 PM
Hi Stu. Have an "attaboy" from me too, we both know it's always good to get'em :) . I do actually like your work, although the design suggestions already made are certainly worthwhile. While we are on aesthetic criteria, allow me to take your vase as the starting point for a discussion of bark inclusions and natural edges. They certainly provide interest, as in this case, because of the chromatic contrast and the beautiful line: let's call it a masterful calligraphy stroke of the brush on the creamy surface of the vase.

In general terms, though, the lathe is a very limiting instrument. Unless the finished product displays the purity of form alluded to by Joe and others, there is not much else to highlight its artistic quality besides the natural beauty of the timber used and the harmony of its lines with the form of the object.

When irregular, knotty, difficult blanks are used, the final product can show the turner's amazing mastery of the tool and be proudly displayed to motivate others to achieve the pinnacle of craftmanship, but are not something I would call art and buy to put on my mantelpiece.

This said, pieces with bark on could be classified as kitsch art in their own right, if all the other aesthetic criteria of this art movement are respected. Most of the pieces displayed in this forum appear to me to fall in the previous category, though.

Any thoughts?

Cheers
Frank

Frank&Earnest
19th May 2007, 12:57 AM
Well, fortunately absence of evidence (of thoughts) is not evidence of absence:D ... Thanks Carl Sagan:rolleyes:

rsser
19th May 2007, 12:35 PM
In general terms, though, the lathe is a very limiting instrument. Unless the finished product displays the purity of form alluded to by Joe and others, there is not much else to highlight its artistic quality besides the natural beauty of the timber used and the harmony of its lines with the form of the object. ...

Any thoughts?

Cheers
Frank

Well I'll buy in.

The figure of the wood and the form of the piece seem to me to offer lots of opportunity to make an aesthetic impact. Look at the incredible variety in bowls in Raffan's work or in the book 500 Bowls (exc. the turned then carved ones).

Yes, the lathe is limiting but so are all tools and media; the art is in working within their limits. A few brush strokes by a Zen master eg. can almost knock the wind out of you.

hughie
19th May 2007, 01:37 PM
See posts on the forum on eg. the golden mean or ratio. And take a look at Raffan's book on turned bowl design.

And as you're in the land of Zen you lucky sod check out the classic vessel shapes of Japanese crafts folk.

Edit: FWIW, watch how the eye travels around a piece. Hard to do on your own work I know.

This piece, my eye keeps being drawn to and held by the bottom. Dead end


Stu,
Nice effort, I kinda run with Ern on this one. Especially on the Raffan and Japanese points.

Other wise a darn good finish considering the bark inclusions.

Frank&Earnest
19th May 2007, 02:06 PM
Total agreement on this point, then. Did not expect it to be controversial, maybe my use of "limiting" appeared a bit disparaging? Saying that turning is more limiting than carving should not be different than saying that a musical instrument is more limiting than another, although beautiful music can be made on both.

What about my more controversial points,then?:D