What glue to use?

[dunnp]

Hi all.
I'm fairly new at this woodworking stuff & am wondering what type of glue I should be using for general jointing.
I'm building a workbench & used polyurethane glue & biscuits to edge join the hardwood boards for the top. It seemed to work fine, but it's expensive & I'm not sure if it's the best glue for the job or not.
For my own future reference I'd like to know what more experienced people use & recommend.
There are so many glues advertised - PVA, PVR, Titebond 1/2/3 etc all claiming to be the bee-knees. I'm confused. Guidance appreciated.
Cheers.
...Phil

[Hickory]

For regular all around cabinetry you can't do better than the Titebonds I II or III (or another brand of the same) Poly is overkill in most cases and should be reserved for high stress and weathered uses. I avoid White glues as I have lost confidence in their quality. Old WWer prefer Animal Hide but with all its redeeming qualities it still is a PITA to use.

I rely mostly on Titebond Original and II as they have served me well. #III let me down a few years ago so I haven't trusted it for weathered projects, although it is well advertised. Red or Blue capped Titebond for me.

[PHSUK]

Phil,

I have a preference for Gorilla Glue. I can say it fulfilled every demand I've placed upon it. True, I've not glued up that much but it sticks like the proverbial poo on a babys blanket.

[MurrayD99]

Phil,

I have a preference for Gorilla Glue. I can say it fulfilled every demand I've placed upon it. True, I've not glued up that much but it sticks like the proverbial poo on a babys blanket.


Quite so. I have standardised on Gorilla glue too. To get it off fingers, tools etc... I use Wattyl Super Etch Reducer (thinners).

[Bob38S]

Used the old Sellys Aquadhere for many years but not always totally happy - moved to Weldbond when it first came on the market - have tested the glue by just surface to surface sticking and can't get the glue to actually fail - bits of timber let go but not the glue.

Only "problem" I have struck is when knocking up some shelves for the shed I didn't completely clean up some of the excess underneath the front edge lip - when sanded with the belt sander it appeared to melt and smear onto the surface - left it for a few minutes and it sanded off OK.

Don't know how many others use it but for general purpose work it appears fine to me.

Regards,
Bob

[dunnp]

I haven't come across Gorilla Glue in my limited travels though woodwork land. Is it available in Australia?
Cheers
...Phil

[MurrayD99]

I expect so. Widely available in NZ and widely advertised in US. I think it originated downunder. You will find plenty of references via google. It isn't cheap and it does have a bit of a shelf life but iut seems to stick anything to anything and doesn't mind damp/wet. There is a tech data sheet somewhere on the web.

[AlexS]

For most jobs, and particularly yours, Titebond I (for a longer working time) or II, or AV180 are the go.

[powderpost]

Phil, I do a bit of gluing and use mostly Selleys Tradesmans Choice except for greasy timbers. Although I did do a spotted gum table top four years ago and it is still ok. Tradesmans Choice is an external quality aquadhere that sets quickly and doesn't suffer with creep. Creep is a problem when the timber expands a very small bead of glue is raised at the joint. It sands well, cutting cleanly. All my laminated pieces are done with this adhesive and find it quite satisfactory.
Jim

[dunnp]

I expect so. Widely available in NZ and widely advertised in US. I think it originated downunder. You will find plenty of references via google. It isn't cheap and it does have a bit of a shelf life but iut seems to stick anything to anything and doesn't mind damp/wet. There is a tech data sheet somewhere on the web.

A Google search didn't really help much. It appears to be common in the UK & US, but none of the big WW suppliers in Oz seem to have it. There's a similar sounding glue called Excel in the US, but again not listed in Oz.
I'm wondering if Gorilla Glue is just a brand name for essentially the same polyurethane glues sold here - eg AV515 or Titebond Polyurethane?? Or is it something special? Anyone know?
Cheers
...Phil

[Master Splinter]

Gorilla Glue is a brand of polyurethane adhesive. Probably not all that different to the newly introduced "Vice" (I think) brand poly (at Bunnies) or the slightly older Selleys Aquadhere Durabond.

My personal preferences, in order, are:

West System epoxy (I dont want this to come apart, ever. And the grain orientation is wrong for good gluing)

Polyurethane (I'm doing this with a biscuit jointer and I dont want it to come apart)

Hide glue (yeah, horrible to work with but I may have to undo it and do it again some day or I'm just being snobby)

PVA (its a kitchen carcass part or MDF or a wooden kids toy or something the kids are making and I want to be able to wipe up the mess)

Cyanoacrylate (Whoops, lets just put that little bit back on that I took off by accident. This applies to both wood and missing bits of skin.)

[PHSUK]

A Google search didn't really help much.

Phil,

here's their website:

http://www.gorillaglue.com/

I've had mine for well over a year and it still flows readily from the bottle and there's no sign of 'failure', if you get my meaning? That is, the consistency and colour are the same as new. I used some a couple of days ago and it is still as good as day one.

[eddie the eagle]

Hi Phil,

PVA's fine in 90+% of applications.

It has a shelf life of about a year, no more. Only buy what you'll comfortably use in a year and throw it out when it's use-by date is up. I'd suspect that the poor experiences of some are due to using glue that's way past its use-by date.

As others have said, a cross-linking (yellow) PVA sets hard. Shelleys sell one in the supermarkets (I think it's called 'exterior' PVA or similar.)

You don't need the expensive exotic glues for everyday use. Hide glue's a good choice in some applications, epoxy's a good option in some. The polyurethane referred to above is another good glue that needs moisture to cure (it's another cross-linking glue that uses the residual moisture in the timber.)

Cheers,

eddie

[dunnp]

Thanks Eddie & all for the advice.I didn't know until now that glues had a 'use before' date - but that makes sense.Still not sure which is the 'best' glue & will probably experiment with Titebond 2 and perhaps persist with polyurethane where I'm concerned about maximum strength. I'll give up on chasing Gorilla Glue - from what you've all told me & some web research, it seems nothing more than polyurethane glue by another name.The Titebond poly glue I used to join 5x2s for my benchtop seems very strong - trying to snap some trimmings broke the wood every time, not the glue joint.Cheers....Phil

[PHSUK]

Phil,

You raise an interesting point about Gorilla Glue being a polyurethane by another name. One characteristic about it is that it 'foams' when curing so if you want to glue something which has a space behind or around the surfaces, it will expand to fill that space, giving, as far as my limited knowledge can deduce, greater strength all round. Is that typical of these types of glue?

[dunnp]

You raise an interesting point about Gorilla Glue being a polyurethane by another name. One characteristic about it is that it 'foams' when curing so if you want to glue something which has a space behind or around the surfaces, it will expand to fill that space, giving, as far as my limited knowledge can deduce, greater strength all round. Is that typical of these types of glue?

...Which sort of confirms my assumption that Gorilla Glue IS a badged polyurethane glue. The Titebond poly glue I'm using behaves exactly like that. The foaming is great - show how evenly you'd spread the glue. An even foam bead after clamping means an even spread. No bead means too little glue. Or a big gap.

Do you moisten the faces prior to glueing? Some people say it doesn't matter. I tried both ways (dry and damp) but can't say if there's any difference at this early stage.
Cheers
...Phil

[PHSUK]

Phil,

The instructions for GG say the surfaces should be damped before use so that confirms what you know about it. Like you, I've never done that and so far I've never had a glue-up go belly-up on me. It's also nice to trim back with a sharp knife (guess it would be if the knife is sharp enough anyway) and the glue also sands very smooth.

[MurrayD99]

My approach depends on the timber/stock. If it is MDF, I figure it is dry and there might not be a good reaction. Otherwise, I probably won't wet one side. You know, I'm not sure it is polyurethane. Can't you clean up polyurethane glue with water?

[Honorary Bloke]

My approach depends on the timber/stock. If it is MDF, I figure it is dry and there might not be a good reaction. Otherwise, I probably won't wet one side. You know, I'm not sure it is polyurethane. Can't you clean up polyurethane glue with water?

Gorilla Glue IS poly glue. I've always wet one side before applying. It is great for holding strength (repairs) but I find it a PITA to use generally. Give me Titebond any day.

[MurrayD99]

So, how do you clean up Titebond, Bob? Does it require some smelly chemical?

[Honorary Bloke]

So, how do you clean up Titebond, Bob? Does it require some smelly chemical?

Sorry, I meant Titebond PVA. :D Cleans up with H2O. Poly will too if you're quick, but after just shave it off with a razor. :) One Poly is of a much with any other.

[MurrayD99]

Yes, it is a polyurethane... but I tend towards a conclusion that Gorilla glue is different, because it cannot be cleaned up with water. I found this re Gorilla glue:-

"Remove uncured "squeeze out" with denatured or rubbing alcohol, thinner, or other common solvents. Fully hardened squeeze out is easily removed with a chisel, scraper, or sandpaper and will not damage tools. Scrub hands with soap and water."

The bit about the hands needs to be expanded to read "...for three days". Nothing less will do the job.

I guess they didn't want to recommend wholesale handwasing in thinners...:oo: