Sharpening chisels using soap

[Groggy]

Now that I have everyone's attention - a quick advertisement.

Have you ever noticed this forum before? Thousands of posts on sharpening, not one in this forum.


(soap, yeah, right :rolleyes: :D )

[felixe]

Groggy,

Do I need to use a dedicated soap-stone:?

Confused,:wink:

Felixe

[keith53]

Bugger! I thought I was finally going to find a use for the packet of Lux flakes I've had in the cupboard for the last 10 years. :D

[munruben]

Well it worked, you got my attention. I thought I had found the answer to my prayers.

[outback]

I thought drivel was banned in this part of the forum. :?

[Toolin Around]

When you think about it a drop of dishwashing soap in the stone keeper wouldn't hurt. It breaks the natural surface tension of the water which may help to float away debris from the pores of a stone.

[bookend]

Well it worked, you got my attention. I thought I had found the answer to my prayers.

Ah! Finally a use for soap! :busted:

[Lignum]

I have a bar of Lux i rub over my diamond stones then spray a mist of water over it. Not sure if thats what you mean, or have a new and more sinister way of using your soap :?

[Cliff Rogers]

Now that I have everyone's attention - a quick advertisement. ...)
Wash your mouth out. :D

[Toolin Around]

I have a bar of Lux i rub over my diamond stones then spray a mist of water over it. Not sure if thats what you mean, or have a new and more sinister way of using your soap :?

As long as you don't bend over to pick it up you should be right

[Jedo_03]

me old mother - rester soul - used to use washing soap - came in blocks - hard as rocks it was (for washing - remember the old scrubbing boards)
anyways - she used to rub the sharp knife on the block of soap before sharpening it on the cement render on the outside of the house...
dunno why she done it...
might just be an old knives tale - eh...
Jedo

[Cliff Rogers]

....might just be an old knives tale - eh......
ooooooooo...... :p

[Groggy]

When you think about it a drop of dishwashing soap in the stone keeper wouldn't hurt. It breaks the natural surface tension of the water which may help to float away debris from the pores of a stone.I use a drop of White King in the water to keep the nasties at bay.

[Cliff Rogers]

I use a drop of White King in the water to keep the nasties at bay.
Will that work on traffic cops? :?

[keith53]

When you think about it a drop of dishwashing soap in the stone keeper wouldn't hurt. It breaks the natural surface tension of the water which may help to float away debris from the pores of a stone.

Trust you to come up with something sensible. :D :D

[felixe]

I'm gonna try it tonight when I sharpen my knives!!:) :2tsup:

[keith53]

me old mother - rester soul - used to use washing soap - came in blocks - hard as rocks it was (for washing - remember the old scrubbing boards)
anyways - she used to rub the sharp knife on the block of soap before sharpening it on the cement render on the outside of the house...
dunno why she done it...
might just be an old knives tale - eh...
Jedo

Man! That's sick....:D fully sick.... :2tsup:

[Woodlee]

When you think about it a drop of dishwashing soap in the stone keeper wouldn't hurt. It breaks the natural surface tension of the water which may help to float away debris from the pores of a stone.

A meat worker told me once that they use dishwashing liquid instead of oil to sharpen the knives they use in the meat works .
Makes sense , its easier to clean off than oil .

So I tried it , it works , and the stone is easier to clean , just immerse in hot water for while.
I think its best to start with a new stone ,rather than one that is soaked in oil.

[Doughboy]

I been using soap/detergent to sharpen my knives for the past twenty odd years. So nothing new about that one but in regards to using it on an old oil stone just put the stone in an old pot and boil it a few times and then you can use the soap method.

[Ashore]

Now you have me confused do I keep sharpening my razor with a leather strop or do I have to get a lather one :?

[Doughboy]

the strop does not so much sharpen the razor as hone it ......


lathered leather ...... doesn't that belong in a warehouse (i think that is how you pronounce it!)

[rsser]

... wow, two pages of posts and no mention of ScarySharp.

[himzol]

A meat worker told me once that they use dishwashing liquid instead of oil to sharpen the knives they use in the meat works .
Makes sense , its easier to clean off than oil .

So I tried it , it works , and the stone is easier to clean , just immerse in hot water for while.
I think its best to start with a new stone ,rather than one that is soaked in oil.

When I was younger I used to do a fair bit of hunting and learned to sharpen my knives from and old rabbit shooter, always used dishwashing detergent on an oil stone.. still use it if I'm using an oil stone... I guess that makes them detergent stones.:doh:

H.

[Cliff Rogers]

.... I guess that makes them detergent stones.:doh:
I still like soap stones. :D

[himzol]

I still like soap stones. :D

OK, soapstones it is...:U

I'm just being reminded of the old Solvol adds when I think of this..:U

[AlexS]

OK, soapstones it is...:U

I'm just being reminded of the old Solvol adds when I think of this..:U

What ever happened to Solvol? Can you still get it?

[Woodlee]

What ever happened to Solvol? Can you still get it?


Yes its still avalable .
We have it at work ,they buy it in bulk lots and it comes with no wrapper.

[Cliff Rogers]

What ever happened to Solvol? Can you still get it?
We have a small bottle of liquid Solvol somewhere, it is green & gritty, good for getting greasy hands clean. :2tsup:

[rsser]

+1 for the liquid stuff; better than the citrus based stuff

[himzol]

+1 for the liquid stuff; better than the citrus based stuff

Yeah but you can only use it if your name is Geoffrey or Jeffrey:roll: :roll:

[soundman]

... wow, two pages of posts and no mention of ScarySharp.

I supose if you were using the scary sharp method with wet&dry you could put soap in the water you use to stick the stuff to what ever.


but then it would be soapysharp.

cheers

[rsser]

'Slidysharp' ... the soap would break the surface tension and the paper would slip off the lapping plate.

[Shedhand]

Will that work on traffic cops? :?will it work on AFL umpires

[Eli]

I do use dishwashing liquid on my diamond stone. When finished you can rinse it and all the steel washes off, the stone is new clean for your next job, no rustys. Seems to keep the cutting particles from getting clogged.......But this is for pocket and kitchen knives, flat blades are all scary sharp, water and wet/dry on glass....:;

[rsser]

Couple of questions from a newbie to 'bench' sharpening ... would appreciate hearing from you:

1. Using the Veritas 2 guide I'm finding that when I tighten it up with the register place in place it skews the tool slightly to the left. It's hard to get a finger in to stop it. Happens with a thick plane iron as well as chisels. What am I doing wrong here?

2. Using a King combo stone 1000/6000 a slurry gets worked up on the coarse grit but not the fine and there's some clogging happening on the fine. Do I have to get a Nagara stone to build a slurry first, or could I do it with say 240 grit paper and a bit of float glass?

I've been taking a knick out of a Gordon blade, and restoring some old Berg chisels (cleaning those up with the dry grinder and wet and dry first).

Advice appreciated. TIA.

[Ray153]

[quote=rsser;528630]Couple of questions from a newbie to 'bench' sharpening ... would appreciate hearing from you:

1. Using the Veritas 2 guide I'm finding that when I tighten it up with the register place in place it skews the tool slightly to the left. It's hard to get a finger in to stop it. Happens with a thick plane iron as well as chisels. What am I doing wrong here?

I don't qualify as an expert in any field of endeavour, particularly sharpening, but this might help. When securing the iron/chisel/whatever in the guide, I turn the whole lot on its side so that the lipped edge of the guide is uppermost in my hand and holding more the iron etc than the guide, while putting downwards pressure on the guide, pull upwards on the iron as I do up the holding bar.Hard to describe the movements of the hand, it just sort of happens now without thinking about it.
I think it is important to try and snug the holding bar up fairly evenly, it should be pretty much parallel with the body of the guide. No need to get out the feeler gauges and micrometre, just by eye. I have never experienced a blade skewing on me this way.

2. Using a King combo stone 1000/6000 a slurry gets worked up on the coarse grit but not the fine and there's some clogging happening on the fine. Do I have to get a Nagara stone to build a slurry first, or could I do it with say 240 grit paper and a bit of float glass?

I have a synthetic nagura which I use to give a head start on the slurry, I have found it dries out or won't absorb any more gunk for want of a technical term fairly rapidly so have to replenish it fairly often with water otherwise the stone glazes over and gets all clogged up.

[rsser]

Thanks Ray. Think I get you on 1. and will print your tip and take it out to the Tabernacle.

[scooter]

Ern, Derek has mentioned using a diamond stone to raise a slurry on a fine waterstone.

I have tried it & it works well :2tsup:


Cheers................Sean

[rsser]

Hi Sean,

Thanks for the tip.

The $$ a bit of a problem for the moment.

I flattened a bit of wood, wrapped 240 W&D around it and raised enough slurry that way.

And I found that taking more care to even up the clamp bar and body reduced the skewing (added: as Ray suggested).

Sure is a slow and messy business if you have a set of chisels and a few plane irons to touch up. I can see why you need a Zen attitude.

[Diesel Fitter]

me old mother - rester soul - used to use washing soap - came in blocks - hard as rocks it was (for washing - remember the old scrubbing boards)
anyways - she used to rub the sharp knife on the block of soap before sharpening it on the cement render on the outside of the house...
dunno why she done it...
might just be an old knives tale - eh...
Jedo

Hi,( first post nerves):B, I'm using cheap bars of hand soap to lube my planes and chisels during use. It works fine at the moment but rubs off quickly, and I don't have any wax or other dry lube to stop the sole gripping on the timber. Will this cause them to rust or will it protect them as well as lubricate? If not, what should I get?

Also does anyone know if the soap will affect my finishes?

[mic-d]

G'day DF, don't know if soap will affect the finish, but I expect you're not putting great globs on it anyway. I like paraffin wax for rust protection and lubrication. Squiggle on and rub in with an old green kitchen scourer. renew as needed during a planing session. You can get it from hardware stores where it might be sold as preservers wax, also paraffin candles.
I think soap might cause rust on steel.
Cheers
Michael

[Cliff Rogers]

Here is a blast from the past.

I use Ubeaut's Traditional Wax (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/trad.html) on my gear now, wipes on & then it sets.

Easy to apply & re-apply.

[soundman]

Soap most certainly will promote corrosion, this is why you shouldn't use soap on nails or screws.....if you expect to get them out at some stage in the future.

Soap is made from a chemical reaction of caustic soda and animal fat.

everything about soap promotes corrosion.

it has a far from neutral PH
it is hydroscopic
it redices surface tension and thus moisture penetration
and
It may have all sorts of other stuff in it that may not like metal like fragrences, flavouring additives, coulours and unreacted byproducts.

wax is far better for the soles of yoyr planes or even better silverglide.

cheers

[Wongdai]

Here is a blast from the past.

I use Ubeaut's Traditional Wax (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/trad.html) on my gear now, wipes on & then it sets.

Easy to apply & re-apply.

Same here. I find it works a treat.

[rsser]

Any kind of paste wax should be fine as long as it doesn't have silicone in it. That queers the pitch for many finishes.

[Lignin]

Ern,
If $$$ tight( & when aren't they?) Get hold of a lump of float glass,some spray adhesive and various grades of wet and dry to do the rough stuff on the blades.
Much cheaper than replacing water stones, and works really efficiently.:2tsup::2tsup:
Or am I preaching to the converted???:B

[rsser]

Thanks for the advice Lignin.

It's a pretty old thread so yes, I was converted! And spent many a boring hour truing plane bodies and lapping blades and chisels. Also went to a dual diamond stone ... but have moved on.

If anyone in Melb wants a length of float glass on MDF, PM me. Will exchange for a bottle with something intoxicating inside it :wink:

[Groggy]

:D:D:D

I started this thread originally when I was a moderator. The intention of it was to simply catch peoples eye and get them to read the post and discover there was a sharpening forum. At that point in time no-one was using it. That's all the post was about really, but it is gratifying to see all this sharpening discussion happening - and in the proper forum. :2tsup:


(You may note that there are older threads in this forum, but this was the first. Other posts were transferred here over the years as the mods had the time to move them. Some of that thankless background work they do.)

[rsser]

Thanks for putting in the effort Groggy.

Sharpening is like a religion isn't it? There are various creeds and rituals, and vigorous debates about how to get to heaven quickest. And in fact what heaven is!

[Whit68]

My Dad was a slaughterman for many years (and has rediculously sharp knives) swears by liquid soap on his sharpening stones.

regards
Anthony

[Lignin]

Ah, well, if it is a sharpening forum, what does the august assembly think is THE BEST chisel and plane sharpenimg jig for those of us who are not clever enough to do it free hand.
I nominate the latest Veritas jig as almost infinitely superior to anything else available.:2tsup:
Let battle commence!! :o

[Groggy]

The best sharpening or honing jig? Different things, to me anyway.

Honing:
I like the Ellipse honing jig for plane blades - very quick to insert a blade and use. For chisels I like the LV Mk-II but even then it depends on the chisel geometry. Not all chisels have coplanar backs and faces and this can be an embuggerance when trying to hone an edge. Touch ups can be done with some green paste and a lump of mdf.

Sharpening:
I use a water wheel or (sometimes) a diamond stone. The jig used came with the machine (Scangrind).

Grinding:
LV rest and a Norton AO wheel for sharpening.

[Lignin]

Good start from the moderator (Sounds vaguely religous.-----Oh, silly me ---Woodwork IS a religion!!)
Now let's include sharpening angles and hones in the mix.:U:U:U

[Groggy]

Good start from the moderator I am no longer a moderator, I have retired from that fine group and am now a normal member (well, mostly normal :D ).

[rsser]

Not all chisels have coplanar backs and faces and this can be an embuggerance when trying to hone an edge

Gotta pay that one Groggy.

Coplanar in blades.

Never thought of it.

Love the feeling of the ground under the feet falling away at a rapid rate :oo:

[Lignin]

OK Groggy, you're now immoderate, but answer the bloody question.
You too, Ern.:~

[Groggy]

OK Groggy, you're now immoderate, but answer the bloody question.
You too, Ern.:~About the angles? That is difficult because 'it depends'. Type of wood, type of plane etc. Chisels vary too according to type. Generally, whatever they are sharpened to I use a secondary bevel for the honing The angle is usually 1 or two degrees off the primary angle. I do not use back bevels.

[rsser]

Is 'best jig' the question? (responding to the q before the last)

Whatever works :p

[soundman]

As for the liquid soap on stones for a slaughterman.

firstly his knives are likley to be stanless and they are never likley to get the chance to corrode.
and
modern liquid soap isnt actulay soap at all it is detergent in moat cases.

cheers

[Shedhand]

I got a Tormek..the green one..last year..I mean 2007 and I was using it for all my sharpening. however for the larger plane blades i still prefer the 12mm float glass and working htrough the grades of wet 'n' dry. I find the paper sticks to the glass if a spray a little water on the glass. I tried that sparay adhesive but found it a problem with the finest grades of paper as it fowmed small lumps which caused the blades to cut into the paper....i finish of with the leather honing wheel with honing paste on the Tormek.