Starting out - electric planer or normal plane

[jisk]

Hi,

I'm just getting in to woodworking and one of the things that I'll be buying very shortly is a plane. I'm a little confused, though - should I get an electric planer (ala GMC at this link (http://www.gmcompany.com.au/index.cfm?module=products&cid=64)) or should I get a normal hand plane (ala Groz at this link (http://www.carbatec.com.au/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=130_19260_19261))?

The electric one seems like there's no calibration required whereas the Groz one says that it requires tuning and the blades need honing before use... I have no idea how I'd do that, and I don't have any sharpening tools.

I don't need a fancy plane, as I'm just a newbie... any ideas? Is the GMC OK for an electric planer, or is there a cheap hand plane I can get that will not require me to be an expert in planes before I use it?

Thanks,
James.

[Kaiser Soze]

... and a GMC. They have 3 blades whereas most others have two which I took as being a good thing. Mine is very easy to operate straight out of the box. just required a deep breath and off I went. Calibration is very easy too ie depth of cut. I am not sure how long the blades will last or how easy they are to replace or to buy separately. But so far I am happy. (But lets face it the hand plane is a beautiful and silent thing, the GMC isn’t).

[SilentButDeadly]

My only response to this is that what you select depends on the job you intend to use it for....but as a quick guideline......

An electric plane is typically a tradesmans tool while a hand plane is a craftmans tool..........the former is all about speed and convenience while the latter is about delicacy and paitence........which probably explains why I only have an electric planer!

All good sheds should have a couple of hand planes.....

[jisk]

There are lots of things a good shed should have, and eventually I'll have a lot of them but for now, my shed is pretty bare!

To start with I was going to make a shelter for the dogs (not a kennel - a bit bigger and more open), then I was going to build a work bench, tool racks for the shed, and move on to trying my hand at a bit of furniture. Clearly the dog shelter doesn't need to be flash.

Is an electric plane as accurate as a hand plane? How do you make sure that the depth of the cut is the same along the whole length of wood? I used a hand plane a few times in intermediate school, but have never used an electric one.

[rat52]

Get both.
The power plane for removing large amounts quickly and the hand plane for the last fractions of a mm .

[bitingmidge]

The electric plane will be ok for what you want to do, but will never be as accurate as a hand plane.

With the hand plane comes a whole new experience and the need to learn to sharpen as well!

You will need a hand plane eventually, but if you continue with "carpentry" an electric is useful for hogging off large amounts of wood.

I would go hand plane first.

In either case, the best way to learn how to use them is to get in there and make mistakes!

cheers,

P:D

[Ian Wells]

The electric plane will be ok for what you want to do, but will never be as accurate as a hand plane.

With the hand plane comes a whole new experience and the need to learn to sharpen as well!

You will need a hand plane eventually, but if you continue with "carpentry" an electric is useful for hogging off large amounts of wood.

I would go hand plane first.

In either case, the best way to learn how to use them is to get in there and make mistakes!

cheers,

P:D

Agree with B/Midge completely and would add that I can hand plane at 2:00 in the morning, off site, during a blackout and without having to put on a mask and safety glasses by using a hand plane. Sharpening is a real sense of achievement and the wood is (usualy) left with a better surface than with my electric plane which really only gets used for roughing out large amounts of scrap/recycled stuff.

ta!
Ian

[TEEJAY]

I use a belt sander for ripping away at the wood and hand plane for finer work.

I have a motorised handplane but rarely use it.

[jisk]

The hand plane I linked to up above says it needs to be sharpened before use - I assume this is the same with most hand planes. I found an article on ehow.com (http://www.ehow.com/how_12226_sharpen-plane-blade.html) that says how to do it, but I don't have a bench grinder, and I don't know what the blade is supposed to be like when finished...

It all seems like getting started with hand planes has a huge learning curve, for a better final result; whereas with an electric plane I can just jump straight in.

Thoughts?

[bitingmidge]

The learning curve with the electric plane comes at the expense of the work you are trying to finish! There is a reason that even skilled tradesmen rarely use hand electric planers for finishing!

Why not put a call out to the Brisso members of the forum to see if one will give you a run-down on sharpening and tuning a plane? That would be far better than trying to do it by book learnin'.

If you are ever on the Sunny Coast, I'd happily convince Toolin' Around to show you the ropes! :wink:

Cheers,

P
:D

[thumbsucker]

I would go for the handplane, because it will teach you, about sharpening, body positioning and movement, and will require skill and patient to learn and use. All skills that will help you when you need to use a chisel or a saw, or any other tool, hand or power.

I always have seen an electric plane as a kind of hand held jointer and thickniser and not comparable to a hand plane in function.

I would however stay away from the Groz, its cheap as ????, Indian made brown stuff. You will try to use it and hate it and then you will hate all planes where in fact it was simple a shity Groz, the soles are warped, the totes are lose, the finish is abysmal, no edge or face is machined, and finally the blade is a soft cheap steel that will never hold an edge on Australian timber. Do not even get me started on the chip-breaker. Best to get an old Stanley say a 4 1/2 or a 5, it will need work but lots of people will be able to help you on this forum - to start with if cost is a real issue. Otherwise I would go for a HNT Gordon Plane (http://hntgordon.com.au/) which are some the best in the world at a very good price as it is made in Australia. If cost is not object the sky is the limit.

[old_picker]

Depnds on the scale.
i have an lectric planer that i bought 20 years ago and i havnet used it since the last house i built. Now I have a collection of lovely old handplanes that get used quite a lot. You will prolly use both so get the one for the next project you are planning. A big job? get an electric planer A small one? buy a nice bench plane say a 4 1/2 a good size but not too big. You can pick up old stanleys, records etc fro <$50.00 on Epay

[RichardL]

G'day

Completely agree with thumbsucker. I haven't got an electric plane. The only hand-held electric plane I have used was too viscious for me. I didn't think it had the control for fine work so have used hand planes ever since and love using them.

One thing about hand planes is, once you have the knack, and it really isn't hard at all, you can sharpen up a plane in a couple of minutes. I used to have a fear of sharpening - I just had a grotty old oil stone and that was it. Couldn't sharpen anything to save my life.

Having read a few discussions on this forum and bought a $10 honing guide and a bit of sand paper on a glass plate, water stone diamond stone or whatever, it is a peice of cake to get them razor sharp.

As mentioned in the last post, you can pick a decent older plane up pretty cheaply and they can be made to work very well. Several of my planes were under $20 and function well enough for me with a bit of tuning up. Again, tuning them up isn't hard, it can be satisfying fixing up old tools and it gives an appreciation of how they work and how to use them properly. Best avoid cheap modern hand planes though.

One other thought, if you are getting into woodwork and intend using other edge tools, chisels etc, they also require sharpening, so you may as well learn how - it is probably the most useful thing I have learned! There are tons of really good discussions on this forum on sharpening.

My 2 cents

[jmk89]

I stuck my tailed devil planer in a Triton cage and use it as a small jointer. Then I clean up the product with my handplanes/\.

I think (personal opinion only) that the best thing is to learn how to use a good handplane. In addition to the old Stanley/Bailey/Record/Carter/Falcon/Turner/etc planes, for relatively little money you can get Mujingfang planes from this eBay store (http://search.stores.ebay.com.au/TOOLS-MORE6451_mujingfang_W0QQfciZQ2d1QQfclZ4QQfsnZTOOLSQ26MORE6451QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsaselZ207112454QQsofpZ0).

Learning to sharpen blades for planes and chisels is very worthwhile - remember, even if you use a tailed devil you will need to sharpen or replace the blades for it as well, so you can't avoid learning how to do it!

But in the end, the issue comes down simply to how you want to do your work - I like doing it in a way that says that it is my work, not a machine's. But I am not under any pressure to finish any of my projects!!! So I can take time off to sharpen a blade or to ponder how best to do a step. If you are under pressure to achieve results, power tools will mean that you can get to the results much faster! even if the work isn't so personal.

And in the end, it doesn't matter, it is the pleasure that you get out of doing the job and of the people you give your work to that makes it worthwhile. How you get and create that pleasure, is really a second-order issue.

[Rookie]

................... and move on to trying my hand at a bit of furniture.



For that reason only, get a hand plane. You will end up with one anyway because an electric plane alone won't be any good for finishing furniture, so you will need to learn all the skills anyway.

[rhancock]

What's that noise a hand plane makes? Can anyone write it down? Thats why you get a hand plane. I've got an electric and there are a very few occasions when its worth the $18.99 or something I paid for it (see: http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=49224 ) but it'll never be a real tool.

[bookend]

Are you an impatient type?

Without a lot of care, an electric plane is going to cause you to discover new and interesting combinations of swear words. :D As RichardL said above, these things are vicious. You are going to probably have a good cry at some time because you have chewed up a lovely piece of timber to the point where it is no longer suitable for whatever you were making.

If you don't know much about planing, there are some great threads here on the forum and there's a wealth of information on the net that's worth reading before tackling anything that matters. Fences, winding sticks and planing across the grain are just some things to consider.

Be prepared to waste some timber, whether you opt for a hand or an electric plane. Good luck!

[jisk]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I've decided to get both. I went out and bought a GMC planer last night for the dog shelter I'm building this weekend. It doesn't need to have a fantastic finish on it, I just need to size and smooth some of the timber.

In due course I'll get some hand planes. I don't want to spend too much, and have nothing against second hand tools so I think I'll look on ebay and local cash converters for older stanley (or whatever) planes. Sharpening them will be a crash course!

Cheers,
James.

[jmk89]

What's that noise a hand plane makes? Can anyone write it down? Thats why you get a hand plane. I've got an electric and there are a very few occasions when its worth the $18.99 or something I paid for it (see: http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=49224 ) but it'll never be a real tool.

Richard

Here (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=44809&highlight=literature)is a thread that I started with a passage that tried to describe the sound.

I think the sound (on nice straight grained timber) is SHSHSHSHSHSH.

Cheers

Jeremy

[jmk89]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I've decided to get both. I went out and bought a GMC planer last night for the dog shelter I'm building this weekend. It doesn't need to have a fantastic finish on it, I just need to size and smooth some of the timber.

In due course I'll get some hand planes. I don't want to spend too much, and have nothing against second hand tools so I think I'll look on ebay and local cash converters for older stanley (or whatever) planes. Sharpening them will be a crash course!

Cheers,
James.

James

Plenty of good Stanley/Bailey style planes can be picked up at Cash Converters, local markets or on eBay. Don't forget Record (a good English version) or the Aussie brands - Carter, Falcon, Turner and Pope - often the steel in these are as good as or better than Stanley itself.

Sharpening isn't hard, it just takes a little time as the first blade you are likely to touch will likely have had a hard life and need lots to get it flat, square and sharp. There are a lot of views on this and I am not going to prejudice you by giving mine first - have a search here on "sharpening" and you will get lots to read and see how may different ways there are to get a sharp edge.

Good luck

Jeremy

Jeremy

[thumbsucker]

I don't want to spend too much, and have nothing against second hand tools so I think I'll look on ebay and local cash converters for older stanley (or whatever) planes. Sharpening them will be a crash course!

I would caution you to research old tools before you go out and spend your money. Stanley and others have been in operation for over 130 years, in that time their quality control has varied. The very old stuff tends to be better, however is more highly priced by collector's. As a rule avoid anything with plastic anywhere.

Start by reading The Superior Works - Patrick's Blood & Gore (http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0a.html) also have a look at old tools shop (http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/) for help restoring tools.

I have found that the best place for old tools are hand tool preservation societies, I am lucky to have the HTPAA in Melbourne. Such groups have very large sales, and you get great tools at a great price. Ask around for a local group. The second best source are the trash and treasure style markets. I tend to avoid epay because of the inflated prices that bidding wars can cause. You also cannot look for small problems that photo do not show.

[Timbre Surfer]

I have an electric GMC plane, while good, it is not a great finish, but good for certain jobs (shaping surfboards is one of them). I mentioned to the missus that i wanted a plane a while ago, and for something special she went out and bought me a set, for $20 from bunnies, hopeless. I went to a garage sale and picked up an old Record hand plane for $4, best plane i have ever used, all it needed was a clean and sharpen.

[jisk]

Well, I did a bit of planing yesterday with my GMC triple blade planer.

It seems that when I plane the cut slants to the right. If I keep planing the same direction the timber ends up sloping to the right (when looked at end-on).

Is this likely to be because of my inexperienced technique or because of the quality associated with "DIY" level tools? I've had a look at the base of it, and it looks like there could be a slight slant to it between the front and back plates, although I'm not sure if it's a trick of the eyes.

In the mean time I've resorted to planing in alternate directions, so it ends up being pretty flat (yes, I know you're meant to plane with the grain, but this is for some framing for an outdoor project so I'm not terribly fussed about the finish).

[jisk]

I think (personal opinion only) that the best thing is to learn how to use a good handplane. In addition to the old Stanley/Bailey/Record/Carter/Falcon/Turner/etc planes, for relatively little money you can get Mujingfang planes from this eBay store (http://search.stores.ebay.com.au/TOOLS-MORE6451_mujingfang_W0QQfciZQ2d1QQfclZ4QQfsnZTOOLSQ26MORE6451QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsaselZ207112454QQsofpZ0).


Jeremy,

So those Mujingfang planes are good? They're really cheap - much cheaper than the Groz ones I was looking at that are supposed to be crap.

What Mujingfang planes should I start with? I've got a beginners woodworking book that says to start with a No.4 and No.5, but the Mujingfangs don't seem to be classified that way...

Thanks,
James.

[jmk89]

James

Mujingfang give their planes all sorts of weird names. And Tools and More (the eBay store that sells them) doesn't always have the full range (or anything like it) for sale at any one time.

At the moment, of the planes available (http://search.ebay.com.au/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=mujingfang&category0=), I personally would go for this one (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/MUJINGFANG-EUROPEAN-STYLE-WOOD-PLANE-250mm-NEW_W0QQitemZ200119000170QQihZ010QQcategoryZ29526QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem). Or wait around until something called a "smoother", "smoothing plane" or a "jack plane" comes up. The stock appears to rotate fairly rapidly, and while there are some styles of plane I would pass on (too specialised - rabbetters, bullnose, etc) the general ones come up quite frequently.

Yes, they are good for the price. The only drawback is that they don't have screw and lever adjusters like a Stanley, so adjusting them requires you to learn how to tap the plane body with a hammer (gently) to adjust the depth of cut and the lateral position of the blade). I use an old toy hammer so I don't hit it hard.

I can never remember which way it goes but tap the back or the toe in the middle and see if you get more or less cut. Then tap the toe or the back next to a corner to see which way the blade skews and you have learned all you need. You will develop your own technique. I just have a little experiment before I start work and test the thing out on a piece of scrap to make sure that I have got it right, before attacking the job at hand.

Cheers

Jeremy

[jisk]

My mujingfang planes arrived last night. I bought:

- 250mm European style plane
- Small sized plane
- European style rabbetting plane.

I've used them and I love them! The large European style plane (probably the equivalent to a stanley #4) is especially a joy to use. I bought the rabbetting plane because I thought it would cut rebates like a plough plane - it seems I was wrong, and I'll probably never use it, unfortunately. The good thing is that they were cheap as chips so it doesn't matter.

When I first pulled them out of their boxes I tried to figure out how to adjust the things properly. After five minutes of getting nowhere, I hopped on the forums and found a link to http://workshop.tjmahaffey.com/workshop/planes3.php (from one of SilentC's old posts, I think). After reading that, adjusting them was a breeze. Much easier than I imagined it would be. I was making shavings in no time.

The electric planer was OK for the purposes I bought it for - planing timber and thick exterior ply down to size. When comparing it to these real planes, the phrase "wood eater" comes to mind.

I think I'm in love... I can't wait to get home tonight and plane some more!

[Stuart]

Is this likely to be because of my inexperienced technique or because of the quality associated with "DIY" level tools? I've had a look at the base of it, and it looks like there could be a slight slant to it between the front and back plates, although I'm not sure if it's a trick of the eyes.

More likely practice- given how aggressive power planers are, it isn't hard to find you are holding it down a bit unevenly, and the resulting angle is the result. It doesn't take a lot of pressure to cause an issue, and really you shouldn't be using any more pressure than needed to simply control the tool - it will do the actual work for you, your job is to just guide it. Try it on a thicker board, so there is more support for the base, and you are less likely to cause any 'tilt', and see how it goes.

Same applies to handplanes - unless you are concentrating, it is really easy to end up with an edge which is not 90 degrees to a side.

[Sandow]

Good to hear you're enjoying it James! :)

I'm heading up to my parents place on Sunday to search among Dad's old planes. Mainly worked with power tools on landscaping projects and would like to try my hand at furniture so will need quite a few of the 'basic' or finer tools of the trade.
Hopefully i'll find a couple in decent condition lol

[rat52]

Jisk,
with the elec planer check that the blades are in alignment with the rear base.

If they are even a fraction of a mm out it will cause you to plane on a wind as you described.

[thumbsucker]

I bought the rabbetting plane because I thought it would cut rebates like a plough plane - it seems I was wrong, and I'll probably never use it, unfortunately.

The cutting of rabbets/rebates is exactly what rabbets/rebates planes do, like any plough plane. (Limited to the width of the blade - that is why you have a few of them in common widths) However because you do not have nicker that is why you need to cut the cross grain to stop tear-out and because you do not have a depth stop you need to simple be more careful.

Clamp a fence or board on one side of the two lines You need to deeply markout with a marking knife or better a saw (to the desired depth) then run the plane back and forth until the desired depth.

See this video for further details:

http://www.philsville.co.uk/dadoplane.htm

and this photo:

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/blog3/content/binary/dado-nail21.JPG

[Slashbot_427]

regarding sharpening the plane blades, if you want to learn i bit more about it, do a search on google or youtube etc for "chisel sharpening", "plane sharpening" etc. There are a number of good videaos that give you the basics.

Go buy/scrounge some of those clear glass window louvres -about 4-5 will do ( I ended up buying 300mm white shiny ceramic tiles- but they're not as flat as I would like, at $1.30ea I can't complain too hard). Then go down to bunnings and buy some 240,400,600, 800, 1200 grit wet and dry, and a can of the spray-on removable adhesive. Its a bit like contact adhesive, and it comes back off the glass with a little water and quick rub from a piece of old bedsheet. Cut each sheet of W&D in thirds lengthways and spray the back of one of them with a thin film of glue. Wait about 1 min for it to form a film, and stick to a glass louvre. Put a different grit on each piece of glass. Behold your new sharpening station. If you want, you can buy a sharpening jig to hold plane blades or chisel blades at a steady angle as you grind them. Get a 600ml Mt Franklin or similar for water and your off.

The setup works well as I can lay them out from large to small grit, and work quickly across them with the back of the blade, then fit it to the sharpening jig, and run across them to form the bevel.


Happy sharpening.

[Wongdai]

I find I can stuff things up really really fast with an electric plane, but with a hand plane it takes me much longer.

[blouis79]

On sharpening...

I think blade sharpening is an essential skill for anyone that want to use hand tools - chisels, planes, knifes. I love my diamond stone. It cost an arm and a leg and it's probably 20 years old now. Oilstones need too much work to keep flat. A non-flat used oilstone is no fun at all for blades that need to be straight and square - chisels, planes.

If using power tools, then they probably need to be sharpened by a pro with the right gear.

Planing surfaces these days is probably just as easily replaced by a sander. Planing edges was never easy to keep them square - with hand plane or electric plane. I was always taught to use fingers under a hand plane to help keep it square when planing edges. A habit to stay away from when using electric!

I think now that I have splurged on a guide rail circular saw (Festool), I'd end up using that for jobs I would have used a plane for in the past (resizing doors/windows, panels, etc). So I think my electric plane is nearly surplus to requirements. A little block plane always comes in handy.