ozwinner 18th June 2007, 08:30 PM Ive got this Blackwood table on the go, I had the same joint let go 4 times when I release the cramp/clamp. :gaah::gaah:
I have even changed the glue as I thought the PVA had hit its use by date when it first let go. :frustrated:
:ranting2:.
The timber joint isnt bent or stressed, so Im buggered if I know whats going on?:aargh:
Al :youcrazy::Q
martrix 18th June 2007, 08:34 PM pics?:q
ozwinner 18th June 2007, 08:37 PM pics?:q
Ya want pics of the crack? :?
Just pretend you have seen a joint letting go for 500mm, there, you have seen it. :U
Al :)
DJ’s Timber 18th June 2007, 08:38 PM Still playing up Al, might have to rip it down and redo the full length Al.
Skew ChiDAMN!! 18th June 2007, 08:42 PM Have you tried cleaning the joint with thinners/acetone before regluing? Sounds too oily to me...
ozwinner 18th June 2007, 08:47 PM Still playing up Al, might have to rip it down and redo the full length Al.
Seeing as how I have to stain and distress the top, a boggin may be the go. :2tsup:
Al :-
ozwinner 18th June 2007, 08:49 PM Have you tried cleaning the joint with thinners/acetone before regluing? Sounds too oily to me...
I cleaned the joint out the other day with a long scraper and the glue was still wet (this was the new glue too.) after 2 days.:?
Al :?
martrix 18th June 2007, 08:49 PM Ya want pics of the crack? :?
Just pretend you have seen a joint letting go for 500mm, there, you have seen it. :U
Al :)
So its a joint in the benchtop?
If it previously had PVA or yellow glue, a second application of those 2 wont do anything. A pic of the crack and where it is in the whole saga might help to solve your &#$&^up.:doh: :D
ozwinner 18th June 2007, 08:52 PM So its a joint in the benchtop?
If it previously had PVA or yellow glue, a second application of those 2 wont do anything. A pic of the crack and where it is in the whole saga might help to solve your &#$&^up.:doh: :D
Ill get pics tomorrow.
I know all you want is a pic of the shed/workshop. :roll:
Al :)
martrix 18th June 2007, 08:59 PM yep, and don't forget to take a stick to fend off the Polar bears and an Epirb in case you fall down an ice crevasse.....&*^$ its cold!:C
Grunt 18th June 2007, 09:25 PM I thought you only used nails for your joints.
AlexS 18th June 2007, 09:37 PM What's the temperature Al? Low temps, <20c can cause glue failure, particularly PVA. That would be my guess.
eddie the eagle 18th June 2007, 09:38 PM Hi Al,
Once the first coat of PVA seeped in to the fibres of the joint and set, then subsequent applications don't have anything to bond into. (Wood glue works by soaking into the fibres and setting)
It sounds as though either, 1. the joint moved after it was prepared, so the joint isn't flush anymore, or 2, the timber warped, and it's breaking open when the clamping pressure is removed.
I'd rip it open and rejoint/reglue. But if you're distressing it, then maybe the joint is a design feature.
CHeers,
eddie
Grunt 18th June 2007, 09:50 PM <!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->
What's the temperature Al? Low temps, <20c can cause glue failure, particularly PVA. That would be my guess
Bloody cold around Melbourne this week. It's currently 2 degrees here in Romsey.
bitingmidge 18th June 2007, 11:36 PM What's the temperature Al? Low temps, <20c can cause glue failure, particularly PVA. That would be my guess.
I take it you mean gluing in those temperatures Alex?
Otherwise there wouldn't be a piece of furniture to sit on in Vic! :oo:
Cheers,
P
Skew ChiDAMN!! 18th June 2007, 11:39 PM I take it you mean gluing in those temperatures Alex?
Otherwise there wouldn't be a piece of furniture to sit on in Vic! :oo:
There's glue in chain-sawn stumps and plastic extrusions?
Cliff Rogers 18th June 2007, 11:43 PM I think Alex may have sus'd out, try lighting a fire under it Al. :D
Wood Borer 18th June 2007, 11:44 PM <!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->
Bloody cold around Melbourne this week. It's currently 2 degrees here in Romsey.
That's warm Grunt:D
The birds' water dish has iced over, there is frost on the cars and the occasional flake of snow. The IR thermometer is reading between -3 and -8, although it is quite pleasant outside.
Al, I'm with AlexS, low temperature might be the cause - take it inside the house but not too close to the heater.
Big Shed 18th June 2007, 11:51 PM The birds' water dish has iced over, there is frost on the cars and the occasional flake of snow.
Quite funny when the Rosellas come in the morning for their drink and skate across the bird bath!:2tsup:
martrix 18th June 2007, 11:53 PM I think Alex may have sus'd out, try lighting a fire under it Al. :D
:D yep, that'll fix it.
Ive done plenty of glue ups with yellow glue (AV180) in temps below 10° with no problems. Just doesn't tack as fast and obviously needs more clamp time.
Big Shed 19th June 2007, 12:04 AM Al, have you considered changing the type of glue you are using?
Selleys Durabond (http://www.selleys.com.au/Selleys-Aquadhere-Durabond/default.aspx) Polyurethane glue is suitable for use down to 5C, and as it is moisture cured, it is also suitable for use on cold damp days.
Might be worth a try.
Wood Borer 19th June 2007, 12:52 AM Al,
Try this test. If you get results like in the picture you might have to wait for it warm up a bit or keep clamping it until it warms up.
Scally 19th June 2007, 08:21 AM Al
Try again and then throw and electric blanket over the table with a couple of old blankets on top of it.
That might help the glue cure.
Or, better still, move to a place with a decent climate.
Cliff Rogers 19th June 2007, 09:33 AM ...move to a place with a decent climate.
Like Newcastle?????? :? :D
Rocker 19th June 2007, 11:11 AM I read somewhere that, if PVA glue is subjected to freezing temperatures, it is ruined. Perhaps you should keep your glue indoors. Of course we don't have this problem in SE QLD, it never gets below zero, except in Toowoomba, of course:)
Rocker
Scally 19th June 2007, 11:32 AM Newcastle is a warm enough to set glue.
I might need some of that Water Cured poly at the moment.
But Cliff, you should know what it is like to get a shower of rain.
ozwinner 19th June 2007, 06:19 PM :- It looks like the lady gets a 6' sash clamp with the table, how stressed will she be?
Al :D
Groggy 19th June 2007, 06:31 PM :- It looks like the lady gets a 6' sash clamp with the table, how stressed will she be?
Al :DWarm it up a bit Al, I reckon AlexS is on the money.
EDIT: By warm it up, I mean the entire area, not just the glue.
Wood Borer 20th June 2007, 12:54 AM Better still, warm it up and then wrap it in foil.
AlexS 20th June 2007, 01:16 PM I take it you mean gluing in those temperatures Alex?
Otherwise there wouldn't be a piece of furniture to sit on in Vic! :oo:
Cheers,
P
Er, yes.:rolleyes:
elraco.com.au 21st June 2007, 08:05 AM I just added this to one of the other threads and noticed people saying the same thing.
"Another tip fo these cold mornings / days is to warm up the adhesive before you use it.
Notice I said WARM UP
Place your dispensing bottle in a jug of WARM water for a few minutes just to bring the temperature of the adhesive up to working temp (>10 degrees) then stick it in a stubbie holder to keep it WARM for as long as possible. :2tsup:
Like me, adhesives do not work their best on cold mornings:-"
Wood Borer 22nd June 2007, 12:10 AM I have done the exact opposite on very hot days - put the glue in the fridge when gluing up multiple joint jobs such as chairs.
It appears to work but then who looks at their watch when you have about 14 joints to get square whilst adusting clamps and cleaning up excess glue.:oo:
Rocker 22nd June 2007, 01:52 AM I have done the exact opposite on very hot days - put the glue in the fridge when gluing up multiple joint jobs such as chairs.
It appears to work but then who looks at their watch when you have about 14 joints to get square whilst adusting clamps and cleaning up excess glue.:oo:
WB,
I find it much easier, and less stressful, when doing complicated glue-ups, to use a glue with a long open time, such as Techniglue epoxy, or Epox-e-glue. Techniglue, even with the fast hardener, has an open time of over an hour at 20°C, and about 30 minutes at 30°C. I also like these epoxies for table-top glue-ups, since they are gap-filling, and do not creep and give rise to those annoying ridges along the glue line, that are prone to occur with PVA glues.
Rocker
soundman 24th June 2007, 01:31 AM Just a thaught
If the joint/ crack needs clamping preasure to close it up AND it springs open when you release the clamps...... you have more than a glue problem.
Either you need to recut the joint so it fits or if it is a crack.... pack it.
either with a sliver or run a saw cut ip the crack and slip a thin slice of timber the same size of the saw cut in a glue it.
also yep... PVA can be ruined if it gets below zero C.
it may split and / or go lumpy...... all the manufactures recomend storing PVA in a frost free environment.
you may have a timber reaction too .
cheers
ozwinner 26th June 2007, 05:58 PM Finally.......Ive worked out what may have gone wrong. :aargh:
:hpydans: Well ok Im not real happy, but at least I have found the cause so it wont happen again.
I hadnt used the table saw for ages when I went to make the latest table, so I applied a liberal coating of Silverglide to hget rid of the surface rust.
As I cut the housings for the free floating tenon with the dado set, the Silverglide must have gotten onto the edge that is letting go. :bigcry:
As I said previously, I have never had any trouble with pva, and yes I know I live in Vic, but my shed wouldnt get down so low in temp that the glue freezes.
Mystery solved.
Thanks for the help guys.
Al :flasher:
soundman 26th June 2007, 11:14 PM Ah silverglide..... the Kevin Rudd of woodworking products....... nothing seems to stick to it.:rotfl:
cheers
| |