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Guy Burns
1st July 2007, 01:10 PM
Hi,

just thought I'd drop by and say that if anyone is interested in seeing photos or instructions for some Percy Blandford style 1950s timber and canvas canoes, let me know.

There are three of four within a few kilometres of me here in Devonport, and I have three myself.

Guy Burns

voyager
25th October 2007, 05:25 AM
Would be very interested especially plans/instructions of his timber and canvas canoes.
Built one of his fishing punts 20 years ago, still going strong!

Boatmik
25th October 2007, 01:00 PM
A few have been built in Adelaide too - but it would be great to have some pics and information up here.

Best wishes
Michael

robhosailor
25th October 2007, 07:20 PM
Hello,
This is a very interesting topic :)
I have plans of canvas canoe "P50" (Tilikum) designed on 1955 by famous Polish boat designer Mieczyslaw Plucinski. This one was designed in two versions - strip planking and canvas.

For canvas version - bulkheads was designed from pine (Pinus silvestris) lumber 15 mm or plywood 10 mm, for curved frames was designed ash (Fraxinus excelsior) or oak (Quercus sp.) or beech (Fagus silvatica) timbers 10x15 mm and for endwise carcas was designed timbers of pine 10x12 mm, stems was from pine 25 mm. All materials are typical available in Poland. Estimated weight was circa 35 kg (strip planked version 60-70 kg!)

Technical data:
LOA 4.7 m
LWL 4.6 m
BOA 0.9 m
BWL 0.86 m
H midship 0.34 m
Draft 0.13 m
S (latin) 3.0 sqm

As an attachement is a part of 5th sheet of plans - canvas version

Guy Burns
28th October 2007, 08:40 PM
Hi,

I will see what I can do about generating a pdf file and sending it to you, along with some photos. Do you have an email address? Mine is [email protected].

Guy

Guy Burns
12th November 2007, 12:08 AM
This is a photo of our mid-sized canoe, 4.2 m, made as small as possible but still able to carry two adults. Made from radiata pine in February 2000. 1000 km down Cooper Creek in the 2000 flood (Muttaburra to Innamincka); out to sea lots of times with three sails – and still going strong.

Mike Field
25th November 2007, 08:27 PM
I built a canvas-on-wood PBK27 (13'-0" single cruising kayak) in 1960 (yes, that's 1960,) and she's still going strong. All the accessories as well., including full sailing gear with pedal-operated rudder. A very clever design, simple to build. I still have the plans for her too, along with those for a 17'-0" double-seater version.

http://www.woodenboatfittings.com.au/public/kareela-s.jpg

Guy Burns
26th November 2007, 03:48 PM
Hi Mike,

yes, that's a Percy Blandford. I'd recognise it anywhere. Tasmania's most famour photographer, Olegas Truchanas, used one of those (I think) to go down the Gordon River years ago before they tamed it. Olegas lost his life in one when he drowned.

They do last for years if looked after. Ours are only eight years old but in very good nick. A mate doesn't look after his, it gets left out in the weather, and has been recovered in that plastic blue stuff, but it is still going strong after 20 years.

Guy

Mike Field
26th November 2007, 06:01 PM
I'd say just the same of your picture, Guy -- she's absolutely identifiable.

I bought the plans for Kareela for 18/6d at the Melbourne Scout Shop, and built her over about three months after school and at weekends. She has 3/8" marine ply frames and endposts, with the rest of the framework being parana pine. The hull is eighteen-ounce cloth, with 15 oz for the decks. (I can still remember the blisters in the palms of my hands from driving all those damn' screws by hand....)

Here's a cockpit photo from about two years ago.

http://www.woodenboatfittings.com.au/public/kareela2-s.jpg

She's reaching the end of her life now though -- the brass screws are dezincifying and the Bostik filler recommended over the screw-heads is swelling and stretching the canvas.

She hasn't really been in white water but I've sailed her on Port Phillip and Western Port, (and Albert Park Lake...,) had her out in Bass Strait west of Wilsons Prom, and paddled her countless miles on the Murray and a few of the slower Victorian rivers -- some of the happiest hours I've ever spent.

Stuart Parker
13th July 2008, 10:32 PM
Hi

Am new to this forum. I built 3 PBK14's (i think that is correct) back in the late 1960's. I still have one that I built but sadly haven't used it in years.

Over time I have lost the plans and would love to get my hands on a set. If anybody knows where I could locate some plans I would much appreciate their advice.

Cheers
Stuart

Boatmik
13th July 2008, 11:58 PM
maybe on this forum
http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=51890

There is this address on another website
# BLANDFORD PLANS Value for money, a catalogue of easily constructed canoes, dinghies and cruisers for only 70p from W. Harrison (E), PO Box 55, Bingley, W.Yorkshire.

Amazon has books
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0006BQQVK/ref=dp_olp_2

Some general chat
http://people.brunel.ac.uk/~acsrrrm/kayak/pbk/pkb.html

Best wishes
Michael Storer

Guy Burns
14th July 2008, 03:21 AM
I have uploaded the construction details of how I built three Percy Blandford canoes to this site:

http://www.mediafire.com/?jwwz19dldjm

It is a 5.5 MB, 17 page pdf file called Percy Blandford Canoe.

Mike Field
23rd July 2008, 08:20 PM
Guy, that's an extremely useful site you've put up there. Given that you were essentially designing your own boats along Blandford lines I can see why you needed the mathematics. But I should say, for any novices who might be put off by maths, that Blandford's own designs contained full-size drawings of all frames and end-posts, which only needed to be traced onto the ply. Also that flaring of the cockpit coaming was not as difficult as it first appeared (but that the timber needed to be steamed well first.) As a sixteen-year-old using a modicum of thought, I had little trouble reading or building to the plans.

Plans for at least some Percy Blandford designs are apparently available from Clark Craft (http://www.clarkcraft.com/cgi-local/shop.pl?type=categ&categ=014&cart_id=655ada852edcc72ea17ab0b3020048e3). Look for the ones whose catalogue numbers start with "BK" as they seem to be the Blandford designs. (Having said that though, I note that BK27, "Sea Scout," is supposed to have ply side-decks, whereas my PBK27 Sea Scout was all canvas. Perhaps there was a redesign after 1960?)

Mike

dinghy
24th February 2009, 08:05 AM
:roll:Hi I'm new to the forum, names dinghy and live in Shipley West Yorkshire UK

Many years ago I built a Percy Blandford PBK20 canoe from scratch lofting the plans from A Foyles Handbook, Boat Building by Percy W. Blandford. The canoe was distinctive because as a young dad money was scarce so to cover the frame a friend of mine with a window blind business gave me some yellow and black canvas we promptly named the canoe "humbug". My sons had a lot of fun on the local canal in the canoe but when they left home for university the canoe became a storage liability, not finding anyone interested in the canoe it eventually got broken up, very stupid of me! Now in semi retirement with young grandchildren the bug has bitten again and I am planning to do the same build again. I still have the original book which shows how to build a PBK10 single seater, PBK20 two seater, fishing punt, rowing dinghy, sailing dinghy, and a pram dinghy.

canoemike
19th April 2009, 02:17 AM
Hi I am new boy to this site I live in the UK I built with my father in the late 50s a PBK 20 and had a great deal of fun in it two canoes trips down the Thames 120 mile a trips at sea in the Solent of the South Coast.I have now reached the ripe old age of 66 and just ordered plans for a PBK design canoe twin seater 17 foot I am not quite so light than I was in the late 50s and need the exterior carring capacity...can anyone help me regarding the stringer material in the UK, mine in the 50s was built of aircraft spruce anf 1088 marine ply if any body has any suppliers they could put me onto I would be very greatfull....when I remmember those days they some of the best days of my life kind regards to everyone..Mike:U

canoemike
20th April 2009, 05:30 AM
:UHi have you started your PBK kayak yet..I sent for plans of a BK 18 and I am looking for marine plywood suppliers and a material to make the stringers and keelson from my first thoughts are ash,,I built a PBK 20 in the late 50s...kind regards Mike

dinghy
23rd April 2009, 07:38 AM
Hi Mike, thanks for your reply.No I havent as yet started on the canoe Im a bit tied up decorating the outside of the house at present. I will try and find out if my local timber yard still stock marine ply. When I built the last canoe I gave them a cutting list from the book and they were very obliging. Biggest mistake I made was making my own paddles from the book plans, they were "heavy" next ones I will buy! Chat to you again soon. Regards Dinghy

canoemike
23rd April 2009, 08:03 PM
Hi Dinghy..my enquires re marine ply have turned up two standards BS 1088 seemed to have been superceded by EU standard which is not as good but it seems if you can track it down BS standard still exist it was not as complicated back in the late 50s what are using for the stringers and the keel.......kind regards Mike

Still Smilin'
24th April 2009, 12:35 AM
I think these are what we're all talking about....

If anyone is interested I have an unfinished single shell available here in Hobart. I had plans to get it in the water but too many other projects in the way. I'm sure that with all the other info in this thread it could be a viable project.

See you on the water..

canoemike
24th April 2009, 03:24 AM
Hi Still Smilin...I think you are a bit to far away we are in the UK is that a PBK 20 or 18 with the children ...kind regards Mike:U

Still Smilin'
25th April 2009, 11:28 PM
Hi Mike, theSingle measures 12ft stem to stem and the double is 15ft. I like to paddle the double one-up as I like the little extra waterline length. At some stage I intend to do one of these using the Geodesic Airolite construction method developed by Platt Monfort - www.gaboats.com (http://www.gaboats.com)
Cheers - Peter

canoemike
26th April 2009, 12:23 AM
Hi Peter..forgive my ignorance but was is Geodesic Airolite? ...changing the subject did any Gurkha Regiments ever serve with the the Austrialian Forces , why I ask as we in the UK have a Goverment that will not let ex Gurkha servicemen make a home in the UK ...I am ashamed of the way were are treating these brave men....kind regards Mike

Still Smilin'
26th April 2009, 01:04 AM
Hi Mike, the gaboats website will give you all you need to know.....but I can't throw any light on the Gurkha question - Google gave me an interesting read under "Gurkha regiments Australian forces".
Cheers, Peter

canoemike
26th April 2009, 01:32 AM
Hi Peter ..thanks for that I think aircraft builders built the Vickers Wellington WW2 bombers fuselage on the same principle it is very stong and light...kind regards Mike

quentin rees
27th April 2009, 11:40 PM
Hi,

just thought I'd drop by and say that if anyone is interested in seeing photos or instructions for some Percy Blandford style 1950s timber and canvas canoes, let me know.

There are three of four within a few kilometres of me here in Devonport, and I have three myself.

Guy Burns

Hi All

Stumbled upon your Group and noticed interest in plans and other bits of info etc.

I could not help thinking that you might like to know about 'The Cockleshell Canoes' ( ISBN 9781848680654 ) which contains intricate details about the construction of the military canoe used during WW2.. even the aluminium ones. But as you are interested in the wooden type there are lots there which will prove useful. I am told that there is so much detail that it would be possible to replicate some of these wooden types..ie esp the longitudinal member types.

Apart from that is a good read esp if your techy inclined. It has 320 pages and now (1st Edition had 137 ) 145 photos most of which have never been published before.

Graet story about the guy who manufactured the famous Mk 2 type canoes used on the Frankton Raid on Bordeaux harbour and explains how these canoes got their 'Cockle' code-name and who /how it all came about.

I own one of only six of the Mk 2 canoes now left in the world as well as a Mk 7 .... but I should shut up now.

Hope some use.

Q:U:q

canoemike
28th April 2009, 02:39 AM
Hi Quentin...I built a PBK 20 with my father when I was 13 and I canoed for nearly 25 years after that..since that early time and it was about when I was 13 I saw the feature film the Cockshell Heroes the memory of how brave these men were was intsrumential in me taken up canoeing and that bravery and admiration being a war baby has stayed with me ever since the likness of the PBK design to the wartime Cockshell Canoes spurred me on as well.

The thing I did not realise is how many operations canoes took part not just in the channel but in the Pacific as well .......thank you for the information and I will be reading your book as soon as i can my hands on it I have read a paperbook regarding raids ...kind regards Mike.....:U

canoemike
28th April 2009, 02:45 AM
Hi Quentin......I do apoligise....it seems my spelling of Cockleshell could be improved I think It is just an age thing.... Mike.......:doh:

quentin rees
28th April 2009, 02:49 AM
Hi Quentin...I built a PBK 20 with my father when I was 13 and I canoed for nearly 25 years after that..since that early time and it was about when I was 13 I saw the feature film the Cockshell Heroes the memory of how brave these men were was intsrumential in me taken up canoeing and that bravery and admiration being a war baby has stayed with me ever since the likness of the PBK design to the wartime Cockshell Canoes spurred me on as well.

The thing I did not realise is how many operations canoes took part not just in the channel but in the Pacific as well .......thank you for the information and I will be reading your book as soon as i can my hands on it I have read a paperbook regarding raids ...kind regards Mike.....:U



The canoes they used in the film were not the ones used on the raid.. the ones in the film were produced POST raid and were Mk 1** the frankton raid ones were Mk 2 .

you will be amazed with the info in the book..:o then you will realise how much is not known about the raids themselves.. 1000's of titbits as well.

Q:2tsup:

I cant spell eather!:no:

quentin rees
6th May 2009, 11:19 PM
Hi Quentin......I do apoligise....it seems my spelling of Cockleshell could be improved I think It is just an age thing.... Mike.......:doh:

Thought you might like to see these..


This from Prof. Eric Grove - Review in Navy News May 2009.

' this volume really is one of the most original, interesting and informative to have appeared recently'

'an excellent and ground breaking work', 'described in great detail'. :doh:

From 'The Croaker' April 2009 issue by M.J.A.

'Clarity of delivery'. :p

'Rees writes well and his narrative flows' :D

'a stimulating and revealing tract' :cool:

'fascinating and detailed accounts' :B

Globe and Laurel - March - April 2009 issue by G.A.D

'remarkable book',
' this great and important military and maritime story - which he tells very well',
'good looking and man sized book' with 'stunning photographs'..

SECOND edition soon out...

canoemike
7th May 2009, 01:45 AM
Hi Quentin...well done your book is must read now......kind regards Mike:2tsup:

manxman
14th May 2009, 08:16 AM
Hi greetings from a windy Isle of Man. I have just bought a BPK 20 its in fairly good shape. Does anyone have a diagram for the sail set up it came with 2 sails. A small lug type and another larger one these need to be replaced. It has no mast how would the mast be held in the boat does it need stays and how are the Lee boards held in place..
Thanks for you time
Al

canoemike
14th May 2009, 07:17 PM
Hi...I might be able to help I have a sailplan of a PBK 18 the leeboards go across the beam and use u bolts to fit under the cockpit coaming//the mast you will to have to put a block in the point where the cockpit coaming meets at the front and drill a hole for the mast and where the bottom boards stop at the front you will have put a block to take the bottom of the mast ............:2tsup: .....kind regards Mike

canoemike
14th May 2009, 07:47 PM
Hi Quentin...when is your second edition of your book coming out I was in a bookshop in Totnes yesterday and the chap there had not heard of the second edition..He said to me he would like you to sign some copies in the shop I said I would pass on the message I did not give him this line of communication just incase you wanted some peace if you want to follow the contact up the details are www.totnesbookshop.com (http://www.totnesbookshop.com) ....40-42 High street Totnes tel no 01803863273...kind regards Mike Crees.......:U

manxman
15th May 2009, 07:20 AM
Hi...I might be able to help I have a sailplan of a PBK 18 the leeboards go across the beam and use u bolts to fit under the cockpit coaming//the mast you will to have to put a block in the point where the cockpit coaming meets at the front and drill a hole for the mast and where the bottom boards stop at the front you will have put a block to take the bottom of the mast ............:2tsup: .....kind regards Mike
Mike thanks for the adviceand that sailplan would be a great help. could you email it to me :U. infoATmanxrowingchallenge.com ([email protected])

canoemike
15th May 2009, 07:57 AM
Hi I e mailed 4 sheets.hope there of some help.....regards Mike

manxman
18th May 2009, 07:11 AM
HI Mike many thanks for the emailing the diagrams. They are a great help .:2tsup:

canoemike
23rd May 2009, 10:52 PM
Hi is there a club or is anyone willing to start one for the old Percy Blandford Canoes ...after nearly 40/50 years some of these canoes are still still being sold having been recovered several times,,new ones are being built outlasting modern materials and they still look great and are very functional anybody of similar mind get in touch I am based in the UK but there is know reason why it cannot be international........Mike:U

shirsam
2nd August 2009, 05:10 PM
I raced a PBK 27 in the early 1950s. The Clark Craft Plans show the 27 as a 13 foot vessel whereas the 27 I raced was 16' long and is shown on there site as the 28. The photo that accompanies the plan data appears to be of me.

canoemike
2nd August 2009, 06:04 PM
Hi did you have any success racing in the 50s..I built my PBK 20 in the late 50s I was 13 yers old and used it on the river Thames in the UK for the next 20 years it was a great time........regards Mike

Still Smilin'
2nd August 2009, 06:34 PM
Has anyone any experience or pics of the PBK57 ?? That's the model with bent frames rather than plywood "stations".

shirsam
2nd August 2009, 08:28 PM
I raced successfully as a Scout and British Canoe Union independant. The PBK was last raced by me on the Arun River from an 11 minute handicap for my second win in the annual Southern Counties long didtance event. I changed to a Klepper TK 67 for my third consecutive win in 1956 or 7. By then more challenging events were calling - The Devizes to Westminster for one. I haven't Paddled in Anger since 1963 or 4 but will shortly be building a PBK 18 to attempt a journey with Shirley down a couple of hundred miles of the Clarence River in NSW.

canoemike
2nd August 2009, 09:31 PM
You did quite a lot ...I nearly did the Devizes.but my canoe partner who was in the Marines got posted ....funny you should mention a PBK 18 I have just got the plans for one ...I have got my son interested in a canoe trip down the river :Thames the upper reaches have not changed since the early 70s in the interim before the build I a bought two canoes one a 30" beam PBK 22 with laminated frames and a 17 foot PBK which has 30" beam it looks like an 18 but it is 2" narrower but it looks as if it will track well...your trip looks very interesting what the camping like....I got the canoe bug again in my 60s....regards Mike

Sunworshipper
6th November 2009, 08:51 AM
For anyone looking for PBK (or any other Percy Blandford design info), I may be able to help on account of being lucky enough to be married to his grand daughter. Percy's wealth of knowledge (as well as designs) is a trove of treasure and I am sure he would be willing to share it with all who are interested, He may also be willing to help in the sourcing of any missing plans, designs, instructions, etc.

Please feel free to email me direct should you need anything & I will ensure Percy receives it.

Still Smilin'
4th December 2009, 12:36 AM
Thanks for your contact Sunworshipper, invaluable.

I've finally started work on a PBK57 which I hope to complete in early January. I've been after my own PBK for about 2 years now having cared for and re-juvunated a PBK27 and a PBK20 as well as skinning a PBK10 - all for other people!!!

I've built a few of Platt Montfort's Geodesic Airolites and plan to meld a few of his ideas into the PBK - I hope Percy won't mind. I'm aiming at a finished weight of 11kg (24-25lb)

kernowboatman
4th February 2010, 07:04 AM
Hey there guys...great to see people together chatting about PBK kayaks...I was given one several years back, and have been busy renovating it ever since, between other jobs!...here it is:

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/kernowboatman/kayak/mine.jpg

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/kernowboatman/kayak/mine-1.jpg

It is around 16 and a half feet long, and seems quite happy with two people in it!...Could it be a pbk 20?...Anyway, I have finished sorting out the hull, and have noticed now that I have turned it so the cockpit is uppermost, that the wood along the tops of the frames is slightly rotten, and that the fore and aft piece of wood that holds the middle of the deck canvas up has gone!...I found a bit of it loose in the boat, completely rotten through!...is there any way that I can replace these without taking the deck canvas off?....

Also, I was wondering if anyone still has plans for a PBK that would suit a large 16 stone bloke and all his camping kit, as I would like to build one from scratch!...I would also be interested to know if there is anyone in the Devon/Cornwall area in the UK that would like to meet up for a paddle, as I havent been paddling it for long, and could do with a confidence boost! I have a fiancee and a two and a half year old, and we all go out in a big sit on top kayak as a family, but I have always been drawn to wooden boats myself, and would love to compare other peoples boats to mine to get other ideas, to try and make my boat the best that it can be! Cheers for now guys!

Dryftwood
4th February 2010, 04:36 PM
I just recieved plans from clarkcraft for the PBK10!! Can't wait to get started on it, but as wifey and I are on a budget, it will come as the biweekly allowance for "wants" is saved up :) At this point I am planning to use white pine and skin it in 8oz dacron coated with tinted Zar. Coating may change as the only retailer for Zar is 30 miles from home, but we shall see...gotta get the thing built first. This boats true purpose is to fish a specific small river nearby that has many S-curves and every one is choked with trees. Hence I need a stable fishing platform that i can easily portage around all the clogs between longpools. Tried this river once in an 18 foot aluminum canoe with a buddy...was one of the most memorable (and HORRID) events of my life thus far. Trying to carry a loaded canoe though wet forest in SNOW.....ugh...never again, lol. Will try to post pictures once i get the ball rolling on this project.

AlexN
9th March 2010, 10:28 PM
An interesting thread indeed. Michael Storer a.k.a. BoatMIK just put me onto it after a post in my own thread in which I mentioned (at some length) the extremely interesting reading that I've been doing with Mr Blandford's "Small Boats and Sailing" (Lutterworth Press, London, 1963) that I was given as a Christmas present last year by one of my sisters and brothers-in-law. It (the book ;) still even has its original paper dust-jacket. Admittedly it's about dinghies, not canoes, but I dare say that the quality of writing, and the information presented (with crystal clarity including why) would be the same. It has become a treasured possession already :).

It leads me to wonder what he would have done with the current plywood-and-epoxy techniques as used by some wooden boat-builders.

Coincidentally, my next boat project has a 50 % chance of being a 16-foot "stitch-and-glue" plywood-and-epoxy canoe - and therefore not a Blandford design.

Regards,
AlexN.

Still Smilin'
10th March 2010, 12:22 AM
Here's my rendition of a PBK57 done in the Geodesic Airolite style. A combination of Huon Pine and King Billy Pine and an all up weight of 9kg.

AlexN
10th March 2010, 09:38 PM
Hi Peter,

That is one cool canoe :). Fantastic!

Cheers,
Alex.

Mike Field
14th September 2010, 06:05 PM
For anyone looking for PBK (or any other Percy Blandford design info), I may be able to help on account of being lucky enough to be married to his grand daughter. Percy's wealth of knowledge (as well as designs) is a trove of treasure and I am sure he would be willing to share it with all who are interested, He may also be willing to help in the sourcing of any missing plans, designs, instructions, etc.

Please feel free to email me direct should you need anything & I will ensure Percy receives it.

Going back to this quote from Sunworshipper last year, am I to understand that PB himself is still with us? I regret that I had no idea, but had assumed that he had gone on before.... :C

I'd be very grateful if you could pass on my very best wishes and thanks to him for enriching my last half-century so much.

Mike

HELLICONIA54
26th September 2010, 10:50 AM
LOL Melbourne Scout shop? i bought plans for canvas on frame K1 in the late 60's .Ended up building a sheet ply kayak instead.Good times Eh?

Mike Field
26th September 2010, 07:18 PM
Yep, Melbourne Scout Shop. :) It was at 384 Elizabeth Street, and I used to visit it regularly.

Good times indeed.

shirsam
26th September 2010, 08:41 PM
I was delited to see that Percy was still with us. 50+ years on we've just built our second PBK. The 18. A few things have changed since the 1950's so amongst other bits the seats are a damn site more comfortable. But the hull and it's paddling characteristics are as ever excellent. The vessel was built on the wharf alongside our floating home (a 50' Sloop). Pics can be viewed here.
Picasa Web Albums - Sam & Shirley Cha... - the kayak (http://picasaweb.google.com/114975507838920979519/TheKayak?authkey=Gv1sRgCN6i5ZLit5CZEw#)

barnacle bill
24th November 2010, 04:12 AM
Hi, Guys,
I'm a new member & joined the forum as I noticed that there were a number of posts from UK members relating to Percy Blandford Kayaks.
In my mid teens, I built, with the help of my dad, a joiner, a PBK14.
Spent many happy hours paddling it, in the Lakes, Scotland, canals, etc., & always remember it as being a very stable, easy to paddle, straight tracking, kayak.
I'm planning to build another one, & whilst I see that drawings are available from a U.S. firm, Clark Craft, it seems to be a faff to transfer the payment stateside.
Does anyone know of anywhere in the UK who supplies drawings for these kayaks?
I seem to remember I bought mine from a hobby shop in Manchester which has long since disappeared.
Cheers,
Bill.

Mike Field
24th November 2010, 11:59 AM
Bill, Percy was a great Scouter. That's how my plans came to be available from the local Scout Shop here. So it could be worthwhile trying BSA HQ in the UK to see if they're still stocking them.

You could also try the first of the contacts listed in Post #11.

Or you could send an email to Sunworshipper (Post #43) to see if he can provide more information. Just click on his name at the top of the post and take it from there.

Mike

shirsam
24th November 2010, 01:15 PM
We bought plans from Clark Craft. Good service. Secure site. Used "Mastercard". Plans delivered here in North Queensland, Australia within a week. Tried to buy from somebody in yorkshire that claimed to have most of the PBK plans. All by Snail Mail. Got no reply.

barnacle bill
12th December 2010, 11:34 PM
Hi, Guys,
Many thanks for your help.
The plans have arrived. I've gone for a PBK14 again.
Now for a sheet of plywood!
I seem to recall that when I built one in my youth, my dad, a joiner, insisted that we beef all of the sections up, for good measure, which resulted in a kayak of considerable weight. This time, I'll stick to the dimensions given.
Hope to do the build in the spring.
I'll let you know how I get on.
In the meantime, if anyone has any further advice..........
All the best.
Bill.

old pete
13th December 2010, 09:15 AM
Hi Guy,

That image takes me back a bit! My brother and I built the 15' two person version of the Percy Blandford canoe when we were 14 and 15 respectively. That's 50 years ago. We used Parana Pine from Chile for the stringers and African mahogony for the coaming and the floor slats. 15 oz canvas for the hull and 12oz canvas for the deck.Getting that forward end of the coaming to meet in a perfect tapered mitre in two elements that are both curved and sloping is one of the most challenging wood fitting tasks I have taken on in a lifetime of fine woodworking but I achieved a perfect fit with no filler and no chocks after many tries with lesser material which then became the template for the final cutting of the mahogony. Unfortunately I haven't got an image to offer. Photography was a rarity in those days of post war austerity. Wish I was 14 again and making another!!

Old Pete

barnacle bill
16th December 2010, 06:28 AM
Hi, Pete,
I remember that joint well.
My coaming was in mahogany too, & we didn't have any spare.
I chickened out & left it to my dad to cut!
Cheers,
Bill.

barnacle bill
26th December 2010, 01:22 AM
Happy Christmas, Chaps!!
Sad or what? Sitting here on Christmas Day reading the build instruction sheet for my kayak?
Which brings me quickly to the point of this post.
HELLLPPPP!!!!!
Percy's instructions talks about using a "proofing solution" on unproofed canvas prior to painting.
On my previous build, in the 1960's, we used wallpaper size (complete failure! :doh:) & having then stripped the canvas off :C & recovered, linseed oil (better).
Does anyoune know of any modern day proofer which would do the job?
All the very best for the New Year.
Bill.

canoemike
7th February 2011, 11:01 PM
Going back to this quote from Sunworshipper last year, am I to understand that PB himself is still with us? I regret that I had no idea, but had assumed that he had gone on before.... :C

I'd be very grateful if you could pass on my very best wishes and thanks to him for enriching my last half-century so much.

Mike Hi ..just a note on Percy Blandford..on facebook there is a Percy Blandford Appreceation page and his grandaughter posts messages about him and his life.....if there is anybody this year is going down the thames UK...i am recovering two old PBK canoes ..one is 60 years old..i am retired with my wife and i live in Berkshire ...and always looking for fellow canoeistto meet up with..kind regards Mike:U

barnacle bill
8th February 2011, 06:53 AM
Hi, Canoemike,
I'm only gathering the timber at the moment with a view to starting the build soon. That combined with needing to learn to paddle again, I don't think I'll be seeing you on the Thames this summer!
Don't mind keeping in touch, though. I live in Lincs.
The PWB Facebook page looks good.
Cheers,
Bill.

pindimar
17th February 2011, 04:05 PM
There were a few Percy Blandford kayaks at the Festival this year:

GregF

Viktor
16th March 2011, 10:15 AM
There were a few Percy Blandford kayaks at the Festival this year:

GregF

Hi,

This is a very nice thread and the Blandford designs a very nice. However the blue double seater ( in the water) is definitely a Klepper, most probably an Aerius II.

Viktor

Sorry, not an Aerius, but a Blauwal (blue whale). You can just make out the name on the side. It was one of the last Klepper designs without sponsons.

pindimar
16th March 2011, 05:59 PM
Hello Viktor

Ooops! My mistake, sorry that I got it wrong. But it's a nice boat just the same!

Thanks for pointing out my error, though

So Viktor, how old would that design be?

best wishes

GregF

Viktor
17th March 2011, 10:50 AM
Hello Viktor

Ooops! My mistake, sorry that I got it wrong. But it's a nice boat just the same!

Thanks for pointing out my error, though

So Viktor, how old would that design be?

best wishes

GregF

Hi Greg,

It was an easy mistake to make. When I saw the first Blandford kayaks at the beginning of this thread my immediate thought was: “they look just like Kleppers”.

Concerning the possible age of the Blauwal in the picture:
I had a look around the internet and came across this very informative website:

Klepper Blauwal 01 (http://www.pluennenkreuzer.de/02_Klepper_Blauwal/klepper_Blauwal_01.html)

According to the info from this site, we are looking here at a “Blauwal 4”, which was the last series of Blauwale, made from 1963 to 1987.

So this boat is at the very least 24 years old. However, looking at the pictures you posted and comparing with my own Aerius II (early 1970 vintage), I would suspect that the Blauwal in the picture could easily be of the same age as my own.

I am almost certain that we are looking here at the original package (skin, skirt, rudder, even the paddles). Kleppers are very (!) expensive, but they are made to last.

If you are interested, have a look at the website, there are lots of nice detail pictures of that boat, including the frame and all the hardware.

bye,

Viktor

pindimar
17th March 2011, 08:47 PM
Thanks for that information Viktor

Very interesting that this particular model was on sale for as long as that - there must have been something right about that design!

Actually I think there is an exhibition in the Australian National Maritime Museum (which is in Sydney) of a kayak trip that was undertaken from Germany to Australia just a few years before WWII and I think that boat was a Klepper?

I thought that I'd taken photos of the display but the only photo I can find now is one of the national pennant that was flown on the kayak - 1937 or so! I'll keep looking!

thanks again Viktor

GregF

pindimar
17th March 2011, 09:32 PM
Thanks for that information Viktor

Very interesting that this particular model was on sale for as long as that - there must have something right about that design!

Actually I think there is an exhibition in the Australian National Maritime Museum (which is in Sydney) of a kayak trip that was undertaken from Germany to Australia just a few years before WWII and I think that boat was a Klepper?

I thought that i'd taken photos of the display but the only photo I can find now is one of the national pennant that was flown on the kayak - 1937 or so! I'll keep looking!

thanks again Viktor

GregF

KJL38
18th March 2011, 09:06 AM
The German paddlers name was Oscar Speck and there are some articles about him at
Incredible Journey of Oskar Speck (http://www.nswseakayaker.asn.au/mag/50/oscarspeck1.htm)
Incredible Journey of Oskar Speck part 2 (http://www.nswseakayaker.asn.au/mag/51/oskarspeck2.htm)
Incredible Journey-OskarSpeck3 (http://www.nswseakayaker.asn.au/mag/52/IncredibleVoyagePart3-OskarSpeck.htm)

Truly an amazing journey.

Viktor
18th March 2011, 10:14 AM
Thanks for that information Viktor

Very interesting that this particular model was on sale for as long as that - there must have been something right about that design!

Actually I think there is an exhibition in the Australian National Maritime Museum (which is in Sydney) of a kayak trip that was undertaken from Germany to Australia just a few years before WWII and I think that boat was a Klepper?

I thought that I'd taken photos of the display but the only photo I can find now is one of the national pennant that was flown on the kayak - 1937 or so! I'll keep looking!

thanks again Viktor

GregF

Hi Greg,

I am glad you liked the info.
I really do not want to hijack this thread away from Percy Blandford designs, but maybe just a little bit more about folding kayaks is maybe ok,,,,

1. Concerning the Blauwal:
Actually the Blauwal 4 was just the latest version of the Blauwal-kayaks, which were built with very minor variations since 1935!

The hugely successful Aerius II is just a Blauwal with two side airchambers (sponsons ?) added, and that boat has been in constant production since the 1950s.

If you buy a new Klepper now (lucky you, if you can afford it), you'll find that the frame including all the little bits of aluminium hardware is still extremely similar, if not identical to the bits you'll see on the pictures of the Blauwal (see link from previous post).

So yes, you could definitely call it a successful design.

2. Oskar Speck's 50,000 km voyage to Australia...by kayak

The internet is a wonderful thing (sometimes)
Following your info I found this on the website of the ANMM:

http://www.anmm.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=1260&c=915

Have a look, it is worth the read.
It took him seven years from Munich to Australia, and he went through 4 folding kayaks. He was lucky in that the German folding kayak manufacturer "Pionier-Faltboote" sponsored him when he had obtained some notoriety after about two years of traveling, and provided him with new boats as needed.

So, the one in the museum should normally be a "Pionier", not a Klepper.
It will however have looked very similar. Folding kayaks were at the time a big industry in Germany, with several companies (Hammer was another big company in addition to Klepper and Pionier).
All their kayaks were basically "decked canoes" in the Rob Roy tradition. So from a little distance they all look highly similar.
Percy Blandford also designed his kayaks in this style, which is why his designs also look like a "Klepper".

bye,

Viktor

pindimar
18th March 2011, 08:26 PM
Ah yes, that's it!

I must go back and take some photos to post - maybe on a separate thread, as Viktor has mentioned, better not to hijack this thread. But it is very interesting stuff, so thank you both.

GregF:U

barnacle bill
3rd May 2011, 02:51 AM
Hi, Fellow Paddlers,
At last, I'm beginning to make progress on my PBK14.
I've (hopefully!) attached a couple of photos.
The frames are of 9mm WBP ply, rather than marine ply, which is difficult to source around here.
The stringers, etc., are generally knot free generic par softwood, sourced from local DIY sheds & timber yards. Some splicing was neccessary.
I've used slow setting epoxy throughout & brass screws.
I'm currently going through the tedious but neccessary (and therapeutic!) process of rounding all the corners off & sanding prior to varnishing.
It isn't looking good for getting it onto the water this summer, so I've just given in & ordered an inflatable kayak for the holidays! Cheating or what!
Best Wishes,
Bill.

Viktor
4th May 2011, 10:06 AM
Hi,
Looking sweet!
Can we have a few detail photos please!

....The frames are of 9mm WBP ply, rather than marine ply, which is difficult to source around here...
I don't think you need to worry about the ply. In Klepper folding kayaks the frames have been made of birch ply for ever (still are, as far as I know). On my own roughly 40-year old boat (Aerius II, very similar in shape to yours) the woodwork looks still very good, including the original varnish. It's the skin that's in need of replacement.

...I have ordered an inflatable kayak for the holidays....
Bad move! Pressure's off now:no:.

Well, at least you'll be able to play on the water, that's the main thing:roll:.

Cheers,

Viktor

barnacle bill
19th June 2011, 03:30 AM
Hi, Viktor,
Got back from hols. a week ago.
I tried the inflatable kayak, a Sevylor Rio, in the sea off Findochty in the north of Scotland. It doesn't track, it doesn't glide, in fact it's pretty much like paddling a giant hot dog bun. It did, however, serve to get me on the water & to get my confidence back.
Got stuck straight into the PBK14 when we got back, & have now completed the part that I had been dreading, that compound mitre joint at the front of the cockpit combing. (Is that the right way to spell combing?)
Will post some detail photos soon.
Cheers,
Bill.

canoemike
4th July 2011, 07:37 PM
Hi Bill have you got the covering material yet..there is a tent company just North of Bristol..that supplies the Heavy duty PVC and the canvas for the topsides...regards Mike

barnacle bill
6th July 2011, 02:58 AM
Hi, Mike,
Many thanks for that, but I'd managed to find a firm called Whaleys in Bradford, who seem to deal in material for theatrical backdrops, tabs, etc.
They still list 10oz & 15oz cotton canvas, just as Percy used to specify. In the spirit of trying to stick as closely to his construction methods as possible, I thought I'd go for this.
Might turn out in the end to have been better to use modern materials, but what the heck!!
Many thanks for the tip, though.
Best Wishes,
Bill.
P.S. Have you tried the Percy W Blandford Appreciation Society on Facebook?

canoemike
6th July 2011, 09:32 PM
Hi Bill..I agree with you about keeping in the spirit of PBs designs..but what i found is that materials that were not around in Percys designing days in my opinion are better suited...i am this month covering an old canoe frame pbk 20 that is nearly sixty years old...the top will be covered in blue canvas duck so it can breath and the bottom very HD pvc 900gsm the same same material that curtain sider truck curtains are made from it is tough and it lasts. What i found back in 1950s with putting canvas on the hull is that every year you have to treat it to keep it water tight...you can paint it with old lino paint which is flexable when dry but it makes the canoe heavy...anyway all the best if your down our way on the thames look us up...kind regards Mike

barnacle bill
7th July 2011, 01:00 AM
Hi, Mike,
On further reflection, I think I might take your advice.
Thinking back, although I had no problems with waterproofing in the '60s, I did manage to put a hole in the kayak from time to time.
Conversely, the bottom of my inflatable kayak is covered in something similar to what you describe, & I was launching it over rocks last month with no problems whatsoever.
Thanks again.
Hope to see you sometime.
Bill.

jeff Krull
19th August 2011, 07:31 AM
Hi I am new to this forum.Please could some one identify this PBK kayak.I thought it was a PBK 57.I have seen in your forum that a PBK 57 has bent ribs.I was given this kayak in this condition and would like to get some thing sorted out with it.
Thanks in advance
Jeff

canoemike
19th August 2011, 09:05 PM
Hi Jeff..It looks a PBK 18..is it about 16 foot 6" aprox long and about 30" beam..looks if need to put a new keel on it and inner cockpit coaming plus the coaming itself..we cover them in the UK with rot proof canvas on the top so the kayak can breath and HD pvc canvas for the hull the hull canvas is 900gsm..it is the same material that curtain sider trucks have down the side..i dont know whether you have the same trucks in Africia as UK..the canvas from at tent manufacturer Marques that type of tent..and HD PVC from a supplier who makes tarpaulins for lorrys..hope this helps regards Mike

canoemike
19th August 2011, 09:27 PM
Hi Jeff a couple of shots just before covering a pbk 20 ..regards Mike

barnacle bill
20th August 2011, 12:51 AM
Hi, Jeff,
I just wondered if you'd come accross the ClarkCraft website yet.
Its an American firm that now hold the drawings for most of Percy's kayak designs.
I thought that perhaps if you coud browse through their PB Kayak list, (there's a fair bit of detail), using your dimensions as a comparison, it might help you identify it.
Also, I might be wrong, I often am, but the gap between the back of your cockpit & the stern looks to be quite long. Perhaps there's a rib missing?
Welcome to the forum. :U
Bill.

canoemike
20th August 2011, 04:09 AM
Hi Bill how are you doing ?..The Clark Craft people i think have changed the No's of some of the plans...if your going on Percy's plans i think it is a 18 as it looks nearly 17 ft long,and the cockpit is long enough to be a 3 seater.....from Percys old list which i have just found a 57 is a single seater 14.6" long.and 24" beam..kind regards Mike

barnacle bill
20th August 2011, 11:50 PM
Hi, Mike,
My kayak's dragging on a bit, unfortunately.
I have, however, been making some of the fiddly bits, i.e. seat & backrest, & am now, at last, ready to varnish.
I've checked out the lorry tarp option for covering, as you suggested. I've found a firm that does 560gsm. I've got a sample, & it does seem adequate, certainly stronger & more puncture resistant than painted 15oz canvas, whilst being substantially lighter than the 900gsm. It might be a good compromise in view of the weight saving.
Cheers,
Bill.

canoemike
21st August 2011, 01:49 AM
Me to Bill it seems to have taken ages to get the old pbk frame i am working on ready for covering,and it is nearly the end of the summer....that pvc sounds ok if you change your mind about the weight the company i use is Attwoolls tel no 01452 742211 product no PP2300900MGY dark grey and there based in in Whitminster Glos,......all the best Mike... :2tsup:

jeff Krull
22nd August 2011, 01:35 AM
Hi Jeff..It looks a PBK 18..is it about 16 foot 6" aprox long and about 30" beam..looks if need to put a new keel on it and inner cockpit coaming plus the coaming itself..we cover them in the UK with rot proof canvas on the top so the kayak can breath and HD pvc canvas for the hull the hull canvas is 900gsm..it is the same material that curtain sider trucks have down the side..i dont know whether you have the same trucks in Africia as UK..the canvas from at tent manufacturer Marques that type of tent..and HD PVC from a supplier who makes tarpaulins for lorrys..hope this helps regards Mike

Hi Mike.
Thanks for your interest and identifying my kayak for me. The dimensions you gave were spot on. They do use that same canvas on the trucks in South Africa. I have had a good look through the kayak and I think it’s not salvageable. The plywood was not marine ply to start with and has dried out and the screws are pulling out of it. The stringers are made from what we call Maranti here (it’s a very low grate mahogany) which is splintering as it’s too old and dry.
Question 1 Has any one made a complete wood PBK?
2 I have 3mm (1/8) by 40mm (1” 19/32) white beach strips in my garage. I was wondering if it would work if it was laminated for the stringers, hog and gunwales.

We don’t readily get all the fancy boat building woods here. The imported woods are really pricey. We don’t have indigenous woods suitable for boat building.

What are your thoughts?
Regards jeff

jeff Krull
22nd August 2011, 01:53 AM
Hi, Jeff,
I just wondered if you'd come accross the ClarkCraft website yet.
Its an American firm that now hold the drawings for most of Percy's kayak designs.
I thought that perhaps if you coud browse through their PB Kayak list, (there's a fair bit of detail), using your dimensions as a comparison, it might help you identify it.
Also, I might be wrong, I often am, but the gap between the back of your cockpit & the stern looks to be quite long. Perhaps there's a rib missing?
Welcome to the forum. :U
Bill.

Hi, Bill,

Thanks for your answer. I went and looked at the Clark Craft website and found the kayaks there. I had been on it before but had not done a thorough search.
You are correct there is a gap for the 8th rib it is in 3 pieces. The ribs were the coming fits are all broken on one side.
I will have to do a complete rebuild.
Regards Jeff

canoemike
22nd August 2011, 02:26 AM
Hi Jeff ..do you mean skinning the kayak with wood and not pvc canvas..are all the fastnings coming out of the frames..the photographs that enclosed are of a kayak that was built by scouts about 60 years ago..and suspect that many of the frames are no bs 1088 marine ply..but if a lot of them have stood the test of time..if the frames are not delaminating it be nice to bring the old canoe frame back to life ..this was all about what the the Percy Blandford (PBK) was all about ..for stringers use scarf joints.. at the moment i am recovering a PBK 20 also rebuiding a PBK 10,22.18..if i can be of any further help..just email...regards Mike

canoemike
23rd August 2011, 06:51 AM
Hi Jeff..attached hopefully details...having trouble with your e maill address..regards Mike

jeff Krull
23rd August 2011, 07:11 AM
Hi Mike

Thank you very much. I am going to have a good look at the lofting drawing tomorrow. I really appreciate your help. I will keep you updated.
Kind Regards
Jeff

barnacle bill
5th September 2011, 06:28 AM
Hi, Mike, Hi, Jeff,

Laminated beech should be fine for the hog, gunnels & stringers, as long as the grain's fairly straight & it's pretty knot free. Old Percy used to specify 3/4" x 1/2" stringers, so you'd probably get two widths out of your 40mm stuff.
We don't have a great selection of timber in these parts, either, unless you contact one of the specialised boatbuilding suppliers, which tends to be pretty expensive.
I've consequently used WBP ply, rather than marine ply for frames, & some anonymous softwood, which looks like Douglas Fir, but could be anything, for the stringers, etc.
Those drawings look interesting, Mike. They don't look like the ones I've got.
I've attached a number of detail photos of my PBK14. I'm afraid the job's still a bit gluey at this stage.That's the trouble with using epoxy, it's a devil of a job keeping your joints clean! Back to the scraper!Viktor asked to see them a few weeks ago, but I'm afraid that we work to a different time scale ot everyone else here in Lincolnshire. Ours is much slower! :cool:

Bye for now.

Bill

canoemike
5th September 2011, 07:51 PM
Hi Bill...I think exterior ply is fine..plenty of yacht varnish into the edges to seal it...that was the whole idea of these kayaks they were built with available materials...it would be interesting to see whether you could build a kayak out of selected joined lengths of deal..i bet it would the do job just as well and double up if you had a large knot in a stringer...the pbk 20 from the scouts that i am recovering has a few knots in the stringers you just double up inside if they are to large and are weak ,i think as long as you use waterproof glue and brass screws it would give a good deal of life ( no pun intended)..by the way i think you ought use a bit more epoxy on you photographs they do not seem to have stuck to your message...when i uploaded photographs first it took several goes all the best Mike ....:U

jeff Krull
6th September 2011, 05:33 AM
Hi, Bill

Thanks for the thumbs up on the beach. I have had some criticism about using it as it is not a traditional boat building wood. I have selected all the choice strips out of what I have for the vital parts.
I did have a look at the normal ply but it was S.A. Pine which is very soft and a wide grain.
I had a look at your PBK 14 and it looks good. I wish my one was that far.
I have had some problem scaling of the PBK 20 drawings as the lines are so thick and indistinct. I eventually used Microsoft Office; publisher .I pasted the drawings into a new page. Then I could draw up a 1 inch grid and zoom to 400% and drag the drawing until the drawing grid matched my 1 inch grid. It makes it so much easer to draw the lines onto my grid using the middle of the exploded drawing.
I made each rib a different color and did the same thing for the second drawing, just locking up the whole grid and lines and flipped it over so that my center line stayed the same. I could print it out on my home printer as it gives lines to line up the pages to full size.
I am hoping to finish drawing the stem and stern onto card board tonight and then start getting them on to plywood.
I am posting a picture of an a4 size drawing. Some one else may be able to use this method as well.
Regards
Jeff

barnacle bill
6th September 2011, 06:28 AM
Hi, Guys,
I think I've cracked the photos this time. Probably my age.
You're right in that beech isn't an ideal boatbuilding material. It ain't light & it ain't stringy, i.e. it doesn't bend that well & isn't that resilient. However, its been used steamed to curves in furniture since the year dot. As long as the grain runs pretty well along the length of the timber, & doesn't wiggle about too much, laminating 3mm strips of it together as Jeff intends to do should be ok for these purposes. It would be better if you could laminate it onto the kayak frames direct, rather than laminating it straight & bending it onto the kayak, as this way you will be building in less internal stresses. As Mike says, there's no shame in using what you have available.
For my stringers, I used 20mm x 12mm strips of whitewood from the local B&Q store. I had to wade through dozens of them before I found enough substantially knot free lengths. They were only available in 2400mm lengths, so I had to scarfe joint them, (photo attached), but I did use them with the scarfes offset on the kayak.
Must go.
The varnish tin calls!
Cheers,
Bill.

canoemike
6th September 2011, 07:55 PM
Hi Bill...That is looking pretty good what you have done.It got to be on the water next year.....that front cockpit combing joint can be a nightmare though.......I like Jeffs lofting colour idea for his the frame identification...all the best Mike.....:2tsup:

jeff Krull
30th November 2011, 01:52 AM
Hi Mike

I have cut out the frames from the drawings you posted for me of the P B K 20. After months of delays I have got to the point of fitting the stringers and I am having a challenge to get them to bend so sharply between the bow and no 2 frame and no 8 frame and the stern. The stringers run in a straight line from no2 frame to no8 frame. This is for the one that is the closest to the keel. I hope you have some advice for me.

Kind regards
Jeff

canoemike
30th November 2011, 07:21 AM
Hi Jeff ..the centres of the frames need to be cut more..or are you going to sit on the top of the canoe...the stringers where they start to bend have to be reduced in thickness by planeing just before the bend to allow more spring in the stringer the timber to be removed from the outside surface..when you can get enough twist on the stringer to do this use a "G" cramp on the stringer this allows you twist the stringer to align more of a flat angle to the stem or stern post you might have to cut the inner angle with a saw...i hope this makes sense...kind regards Mike

jeff Krull
2nd December 2011, 06:34 AM
Hi Mike ..

Thanks Mike I will try that as soon as I can get back in my garage.

Kind regards
Jeff

barnacle bill
9th January 2012, 04:12 AM
Hi, Guys,
Hope I'm not trying to teach my grandma to suck eggs, but my PBK instruction sheet says not to twist the stringers too much near the ends, but to saw them off at a compound angle to lie flat against the stem & stern.
I've foung the very best saw for this job is a Japanese pull saw. You get much better control in this type of situation & no binding.
Hope this helps.
Happy New Year,
Bill.

Thundabox
14th January 2012, 08:53 PM
Would love to see photos and or plans for canoes if you still have them Thanks