stablisation and other funn stuff.

[soundman]

The subject of stabalisation was raised in another thread.

So lets have at it.... what do we know and who has had a go at it.

What do people use as the resin.


cheers

[bdar]

I have used Minwax fast drying poly for stabilization before. Pour the poly into a large glasss jar have a lid with a fitting to fit a break bleeder to to suck out the air. This is ok if you want to do a few blanks for yourself. Some people have made a 50/50 wood glue/water mix and said it has worked, but if it is like the poly you will have to use CA along the way. There are commercially made timber hardners for rotted wood but run at $50 a litre which becomes expensive.

The best method that I have seen is with a paint pressure pot that you can get from Supercheap Auto. Have seen one with a lid made of 9 ply that can be clamped and sealed off with the connections to attatch a vacuum pump with an on/off valve to hold the vacuum once it has been pulled. Plexi acetone mix seems to be the way to go. You break up the plexi and disolve it with the acetone, once you get enough you keep adding acetone until you get it to a consitancy of thin CA. The vacuum displaces the air in the blanks and replaces it with the plexi solution and becomes saturated.

There is one guy in the States that has just done the plexi solution and let the blanks soak until they became saturated and sank, he said it worked well, but didn't say how long it took for the blanks to become saturated. If you go to here this may show the set up of how Lee uses it.
Darren
http://content.penturners.org/articles/2004/polyurethane1.pdf

[joe greiner]

I've worked with these folks on bridge repairs. Parent company is UK.

http://www.balvac.com/project_profiles.asp

Interesting process, patents might have expired, but for small-scale applications, might be below the radar, or sufficient deviation from their process. I have the construction specifications hopelessly "around here someplace." As I recall, they use several different very-low-viscosity epoxies, mostly from 3M. Of course, they buy it by the barrel, and small quantities might be hard to get. I'll try to touch base with them next week, and hope my contacts are still there.

Joe

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I've found that the cheap, so-called "Danish Oil" used for sealing floors is excellent stuff. You know the stuff... about 90% PolyU, 5% metallic dryers, 4.99% unidentifiable crud and a teaspoon of tung oil waved in the air over the top of each can. :rolleyes:

It's thin enough that it'll fully penetrate a pen-blank within 12-24 hours using my vacuum set-up (I have a dislike for making high-pressure bombs in areas that I'm working. :wink:) although, depending on the wood, it can take a few weeks to fully set all the way through.

Still, it's cheap and if you like to stabilise your woods in large batches in advance like I do...

Oh... one other disadvantage, besides curing time, is that it ends to severely restrict your choice of final finish. :p

[soundman]

The brake bleeder is a good thaught.
I was racking my mind to think of a cheap vacume pump.
the compressed air vacume converters looked good to start with till I read the specs thy wont even get down to minus1 aptmosphere.
Any other thaughts.

seems from the US site that they have only tried a few things and they tend to be hardware store stuff.

Has anybody tried shelac, nitro laquer might be worthwhile too.

From reading some of the US posts, some of them seem to be having problems with blanks that aren't dry, but there seems to be little mention of microwaving them first.

It occurs to me that if you are trying to impregnate a piece of timber it would be a big advantage for it to be very dry first.

It mught be an advantage to have both the blank and the solution warm too.

I have seen some mention of using floor sealer ans used to seal vinyl floors.

something with a light solvent base would have to have its advantages.

cheers

[echnidna]

I reckon you could use the inlet side of a normal compressor to get vacuum.
Dunno what level of vacuum you could reach.

[soundman]

I would expect that would work..... I'n a bit concerned about how happy the compressor would be about that.

I've considered buying one of the cheap compressors to do that with.

It would be relativly easy with a full sized compressor they usualy have a threaded port where the air cleaner screws in.
I was thinking about one of the cheap 12V jobs but they may not have a convienient inlet.

I know there were stories about people using old fridge compressors for vac bagging.... one bloke reported killing a few compressor units though.

cheers

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I reckon you could use the inlet side of a normal compressor to get vacuum.
Dunno what level of vacuum you could reach.

I use an old 'frig compressor. It eventually gets down pretty close to a full atmos vacuum, although it takes quite some time to get there. :)


I know there were stories about people using old fridge compressors for vac bagging.... one bloke reported killing a few compressor units though.

If it seizes that's no big drama, I'll just have to make another trip to the tip for a replacement. But I treat mine the same as I do my nail guns; dribble a couple of drops of oil in the line before connecting it up and I haven't blown it yet. That's just as likely to be good luck rather than good management, though...

I've seen other modified 'frig compressors that bubble the outlet through an oil bath. I'm not sure why... I wouldn't expect any "back-flow" into the comp itself for lubrication, maybe it helps the comp pull down a vacuum faster?

[echnidna]

Frig compressors rely on oil in the refrigerant for lubrication.

Bubbling air thru oil on the inlet side should do it.

[dai sensei]

..The best method that I have seen is with a paint pressure pot

I've got my fathers old huge aluminium paint pressure pot he used to use for fences - although I haven't tried it yet. Mind you, I know how to pressure in, how do I get the vacuum :- ?


Plexi acetone mix seems to be the way to go

You got me, what's plexi?

[bdar]

I've got my fathers old huge aluminium paint pressure pot he used to use for fences - although I haven't tried it yet. Mind you, I know how to pressure in, how do I get the vacuum :- ?



You got me, what's plexi?

You will need a vacuum pump to draw a vacuum, they are the expensive thing if you buy new, maybe a cheap one can be found on ebay, but the quality could come into question then.

Plexi is plexiglass, places that do acrylic work generally have scraps that you can get on the cheap and you cut it up into small pieces and disolve it with the acetone.

[schaf]

Skew,do you think you could manage a picture of your 'frig compressor setup and would it be pushing to much for an explanation as well.
Not asking to much am I,but am interested..

Regards
Terry

[lubbing5cherubs]

thanks Terry I was about to ask that too but I like to see both setup with the brake bleeder because a piccy tells a million words. Please Darren and Skew
Toni

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Will do, although I'm a bit pressed for time this weekend. Fambly type stuff. :rolleyes:

We had a discussion on this sort of thing before, in this (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=30024) thread, which has pix of the compressor I modified at about Post #20. It's basically just that, some rubber brake hose and a bell jar.

[neon007]

I also use a pressure paint tank with a valve from any plumbing supply. As for the vacum pump I use a rigged up shop vac. It creates alot more vacum pressure than you would think. Hope this helps

[schaf]

Thanks Skew,
I followed your lead to the previous thread and it was great , especially the very last thread.
My apologies for not doing a search first.

Terry