Learn Electrics Free On-line

[Grue]

When I was a boy, I wanted to be an electrician but dad said "No son. get a trade first".

Still want to learn about electrics, and I've noticed a number of electrical related questions on the boards, and I found a beaut site to learn about electricity for FREE.

Check out http://www.sea.siemens.com/step/default.html there are all sorts of serious courses you can do to learn. There's an exam at the end of each course, and study material can be downloaded.

So here you are, add an extra qualification to your portfolio, use it as a teaching resource, or encourage your kids to learn that little bit extra that may land them that job!

Glenn

www.metalbashatorium.com

[Pulpo]

Looks like a great site

Thanks

Of course doing any electrical work, although I do not know where the line is drawn, has to be undertaken by a qualified sparkie.

Which is not the case in the US or UK, the material on the subject of DIY electrical is very little to non-existence.

I have more than enough work to do anyway.

But if the material is not over complicated I will look further.

Cheers

Pulpo

[Shane Watson]

This has been an area of constant frustration with many I know. The average DIY person has no worries with changing over a GPO fitting which might have a broken button or somthing silly, yet still needs to spend upwards towards the $100 mark to get a tradesman out to do a 5min job. How do the authorities police non-trade work? Look at this fictional scenario - How can someone determine whether that GPO powerpoint over there in that cornor wasn't replaced by a qualified person?

These arn't neccessarily my opinions, but this is the general feeling I get from the people I regularly deal with and the sprakies I deal with hate doing those 5min jobs too even though they get paid big bucks for there trouble. So whats everyones thoughts?

[Pulpo]

I read somewhere, that in Victoria there was a move to not only stop DIY attempting electrical work but also any electrical materials purchased would require a licence.

So the DIY handy person could no longer purchase flex, power points fuses etc.

Where is the empirical evidence to suggest that DIY with electrical work is too dangerous for the serious DIY person?

Print some material about the subject and it may help ones comprehension on the matter.

Its interesting that I have had electrical work done for a shared holiday home, I was not around to supervise, nor was it possible to speak to the person in person.

Around $2,000 worth of work was completed but the work was not checked until 3 or 4 months later.

However I was subsequently told that the work was not done correctly, (due to another problem arising).

How can I check or any DIY person check when there is no material for the DIY to check against, except the wiring standards which are not exactly written for the DIY.

I can build a house except for the plumbing and electrical with out being qualified, due to safety reasons, hmm.

So the house could collapse killing all occupants but the electrical work is more than likely only to kill me.

Plumbing is more of a health issue.

I guess you have to be exceptionally clever to be a plumber or electrician, and without 4 years full time training there is just no way one could change a washer or change a power point.

I believe in the US anyone can do the work but an inspector must give a certificate on inpsection.

PS One can do their own plumbing if not on town water and one can also do electrical work if DC and not AC.

Cheers

Pulpo

[Shane Watson]

Coms work is in the same catagory as well. Damn simple work to wire up a line but no one without an austel ticket can do it, why? I fully understand on telstra's side of the lines, but from the MDF or IDF into private line work? Fact is I can wire up the coms lines in my work better than 90% of telstra techs and coms techs that we have to pay to do it and in 90% of cases have to have them return to re-wire correctly......go figure.....I mean how simple is it, pair one goes here and pair 2 there (and we give them written and drawn guidance which was supplied by telstra) and they still get it all wrong....Anyway I can't afford a $50'000 fine ( i think thats what it currently stands at). :confused: hahaha

And the same as electrical hardware the average joe can walk into a supplier and purchase all the hardware, tools & materials required....

Anyone know whats involved with getting an Austel Ticket?

[GeoffS]

A few comments -
Pulpo - nothing to do with DC or AC, just whether it is connected to the grid - not even that if you look at ALL the rules and perhaps more importantly your insurance policy.
The moves in Vic follow recent legislation in Qld where now, if it plugs into a power point as an unlicensed person you are not allowed to take the covers off. i.e. you have to take your computer, TV etc to a licensed electrician to have it repaired!! It is not quite that bad (there is a low level licence available) but almost. Low level licences are available in a number of states, however I have read of someone who had been repairing appliances for years being refused a licence because that was not his full-time job - he sometimes helped the salemen!

It is strange but Australia is moving in exactly the opposite direction from the rest of the world. In most parts of the world, most domestic work can now be done by the householder with various levels of inspection.
The only country in the developed world with a worse electrical accident record than ours is Ireland and I believe they also have similar restrictions
NZ which had terrible restrictions (an electrician could go to jail for telling an unlicensed person how to wire something, I don't know if anybody ever did) in the early 90s went and threw the whole lot out, certainly in relation to domestic work.
I could go on about this for hours (or pages) but it is certainly something worth worrying about.
Next in line - must have a carpenter's licence (full 4 year apprenticeship) before you are allowed to use your woodworking tools. Makes as much sense.

[gatiep]

I read this with lots of interest. I am a computer technician, appropriately trained and guess who are my most regular pc "bugger upperers"? Sparkies.........had another one yesterday. Low voltages, only 12 and 5 volts....but the motherboard doesn't take kindly to ide cables being pulled out of the sockets while the power is on!!!!!!
Sometimes I am amazed at what qualified people get up to.

[antman]

Shane,
I did my Austel License many years ago but stupidly let it lapse (You don't get sent a reminder - or at least you never used to). To get the license we had to sit a 50 multiple answer questions exam without any errors. It was all based on the standards at the time. My license covered all data cabling from telephone to Cat5 to Optical Fibre. I think these days you need to sit exams for each medium, so you can be certified for fibre but not Cat 5.

I could be completely wrong as I have really lost track and now rarely touch data cabling. Somehwere that might be a start if your are keen to follow up is http://www.aca.gov.au but good luck, I had a brief look and the site is huge!

As for trade people doing cabling etc, I have seen some pretty terrible work done buy qualified tradespeople but the key is that if you can prove they did the work, at least you might have some come back in the event of a problem.

Cheers
Anthony

[downunderpom]

I am amazed that this nonsense about 'qualified electricians' is still going on - my dad was an electrical engineer, and had me wiring my first three pin plug at age 8. As far as he was concerned (and me too) knowledge is the best defense against making a stupid mistake. If you know what you're doing (either through being taught by a knowledgeable person, or through an adult education course), you are far less likely to have any electricity related acidents.

I have (in the UK, I hasten to add!) completely rewired a 3 bedroom house from top to bottom, and even put in computer lines, phone lines, and a multimedia (radio sockets and TV sockets in each room), and yet if I did that here in Oz it looks like I would be arrested!

I build computers for fun. I have built around 20 for myself and mates who paid for the parts (no labour charges - like I said I do it for fun), with NO problems.

I think this 'cradle to grave' security is bad for people. Where's the incentive (or the availability) to be self-sufficient, to stand up and say 'I did that, all by myself, and I'm proud of the result'?

[pwaite]

I tend to agree. I guess it's all about trying to find that balance between public health costs and business/economic costs. Developed countries - Aus in particular - are very heavily regulated . There is a regulation covering virtually everything.
I live in Laos where there is a distinct lack of regulations. There is, of course, a big downside (perhaps I should post some photos of some of the commercial 'workshops' I have seen over here) because many people work in very unsafe conditions. But equally so, people just get on and do stuff when they want to (eg build a house, wire a room, etc.)

[Wood Borer]

The Telecommunications cabling licence is now controlled by the ACA.

When I was a tech in Telecom the only time you ran cables was when you were new to the job, were a hopeless tech or had been caught doing something wrong. Many of us considered it a tedious brain dead task - a punishment - not real tech's work.

Today in the communications industry there is no formal training for technicians but those who get an ACA licence think they are technicians!!!!! They are qualified cablers.


- Wood Borer

[DPB]

It seems to me that authorities have a right to be concerned about the quality of electrical wiring in a domestic or industrial environment. I welcome high standards that assure my safety.

However, I think the authorities are incorrect in assuming that this can be obtained only by the use of licensed practitioners.

Surely the issue is the standard, not the person applying the standard. A bodgy job can be done by a licensed and non-licensed person alike. And a high quality job can likewise be done by either. It seems to me that it makes more sense to attach the penalties to non-compliance with a standard rather than whether the person doing the work has a license.

It is my understanding that in both the USA and Canada, wiring standards are very high, and the regulatory authorities test that the work has been done to the standards in place. Who does the work is not the issue. Comprehensive wiring standards are readily available to the DIY market. They are sold in the big hardware chains.If the DIY individual is capable of doing the work, so-be-it. It is still necessary to get the work inspected by the authorities, but as long as the work done is in compliance it gets passed.

My suspicion is that the trade unions have a strong lobby that had convinced the authorities the only way to assure that work is compliant with reg's is to restrict it to licensed trade persons.
:mad:

[pfjones]

It's been awhile since I left pommy land but if I remember rightly if you do major wiring jobs (like rewiring a house) in the uk you have to sumbit an inspection form to the local electrical authority, which has to have a electrical contractors licence number on it otherwise it doesn't get inspected or connected.
I ,like everybody else hate shelling out good money for what I think is a 2 minute job I could have done myself,
But most of the horror stories we hear about on the news are about fires that are started by an "electrical wiring" fault
Don't think I'll take the chance, same with plumbing(gas)
Water pipes I'll have a go! but how many times have you had that little weeping joint that just won't go away no matter how many propane bottles you use on it?what a bugger!!!

[Wood Borer]

I am not sure about the trade unions but certainly the authorities seem to be of the opinion that if the job is done by someone licenced then it is OK. If it is done by someone unlicenced then it must be a rotten job!

I think in this day and age that these things are being controlled by pen pushers and have the interests of litigation in mind rather than safety and common sense.

I once heard the difference between a tradesman and an amateur is that the tradesman knows when he/she has done a rough job whereas the amateur doesn't know the difference. True in some cases.

Same applies to woodwork.

- Wood Borer

[downunderpom]

Nature has a way of removing the stupid gene from the gene pool, and I think that the beuro-rats should let nature take its course!

Never mind. I'm sure that one of these days common sense will prevail, and those with the ability will be allowed to just get on with it, and get the job done, without beuro-rat interference.

Oooh, look! A flying pig!!!

-Steve

[GeoffS]

A couple more comments from me:-
..In the UK it certainly used to be that you could do your own domestic work yourself, I do not believe it has changed.
..A few have commented on 'knowledge' being the key. Many people seem to know this. I have not been able to check this but it was recently reported that the biggest selling book in technical book shops in Australia is the Australian Wiring Standards (I can't remember its correct name) It sells in numbers far greater the requirements of licenced electricians.
..Many fires occur from OLD wiring which gets disturbed by humans, rats and possums etc. One reason NZ relaxed their regs was that, like here, the wiring in many old houses was way past its use by date, owners were aware of this but could not afford to do anything about it. It was eventually realised that the risks from owners doing there own re-wiring were less than the risks from leaving things the way they were.
..There is a move afoot in various Australian states to ban the sale of electrical fittings to other than licensed electricians.
..Getting an electric shock is not the same as being electrocuted, I have lost count of the number of shocks I have had, I don't believe I've ever been electrocuted!! A bit of knowledgable care is what it needs.
Cheers again

[Grue]

Gee I started a spirited discussion with this one. All I intended to do was give a link to let you know where you could get some good instructional material. Wish I had time to work through all the courses myself.

Guess I was thinking well here's a site where, if I had a teenager in the house, I could suggest that having the Siemens Certificates would improve their job prospects!

I agree though with most of what has been said about the trade certificat being a prerequisite. I've wired up a couple of my own "home rescues" and was particular about the way it was done. Had to have it checked by a sparkie!

Strange how they have changed the law so that an aircraft owner / pilot can now do most of his own maitenance and so that the home owner can't run any wires at all. Bit of a conflict in standards!

Glenn

[soundman]

In this country in particular the state of queensland the in grained restrictive trade practise associated with the black art of electrickery is steadily getting worse.
Even if you are electricaly trained person from a technical trade it is made hard for you to get any form of electrical licence.

And it is not repeat not possible to get a full electrical licence without serving an electrical aprenticship.

Even if you have a masters degree in electrical engineering and design electrical apliances for a living it is ilegal for you to repair your toaster in queensland.

Yet there is no systematic inspection of imported goos for compliance with regulations. Considering those goods were assembled by possible illeterate bowl of rice a day workers in a third world country.

The electronic trades in queesland are absolutely furious.

But it wont change while the regulators are only listening to the electricians lobby.

ARRRRRGGGH

[DanP]

Just to muddy the waters somewhat, :rolleyes:

Here's some of the legislation relating to sparky stuff:

Electric Light and Power Act (http://www.dms.dpc.vic.gov.au/l2d/E/ACT00894/5_2.html)
Electricity Industry (Residual Provisions) Act 1993 (http://www.dms.dpc.vic.gov.au/l2d/E/ACT01947/5_5.html) Electricity Industry Act 2000 (http://www.dms.dpc.vic.gov.au/l2d/E/ACT01701/1_3.html)
Electricity Safety Act 1998 (http://www.dms.dpc.vic.gov.au/l2d/E/ACT01316/3_1.html)

To save you looking, here is the bit about being authorised:

"A person must not carry on or offer to carry on or hold out that the person carries on or is willing to carry on any class of electrical contracting that, under the regulations, is a prescribed class of electrical contracting for the purposes of this Division unless the person is registered under this Division as an electrical contractor in respect of electrical contracting of that class and holds the prescribed insurance (if any)." (Electrical Safety Act 1998)

AND:

Penalty: In the case of a natural person(You or me), 50 penalty units($5,000);

In the case of a body corporate(company), 250 penalty units($25,000).


You used to be able to get a permit to do minor work ie: run a cable, install GPO's etc. in other words the jobs real sparky's weren't interested in. It was intended for labourers that sparky's hired but not exclusive to them. Called an 'S' permit or similar, they knocked it on the head about 10 years ago.

Dan

[downunderpom]

Well, to be a little obvious, that sounds like a right 'carry on' to me!

I'm doing some research into what's required to get an electrician's license - I am building a new house and want to be able to do the wiring myself so that a) it's done properly and b) it's a bloody sight cheaper!

If it's not too convoluted and boring I'll post the results when I've found out.

Mind you - we're REALLY getting off the track here - this is, after all, a woodworking forum!

Steve

[barnsey]

Whoa - now here's a soapbox to get on!!!:D

Some time back in a house reno - I wanted to install Earth leakage devices at the main board. Having procured them I asked the sparkie wiring the extension to include these at the board. In the end I wound up installing them coz he didn't have a clue. He checked it all out and thought it was OK and it was approved by the authorities after the job was completed.

I served an electro-mechanical trade so I guess I have a head start - but certainly not to licencing levels. (An aircraft instrument maker).

Think this just serves as a reinforcement that the approach should be as in the USA. DIY is OK just make sure that it gets checked out. The way things are here I'll need to get a sparkie to wire up the bedside lamps I've just made - I think not!!!!:mad:

I must say that I am aware of the cowboys that have no idea are the big problem - just re-wired the 20' Mustang and I must have stripped kilos of copper out of it that was useless. These guys give us that do have the knowledge/experience a bad name and we are being regulated out of being allowed to fix the toaster or washing machine.

Well not this little black duck:mad:

[Wood Borer]

Are the people who make the Regulations qualified or regulated? - Politicians!!!

I suspect they listen to lawyers and shareholders and take a rather simplistic ignorant approach.

Some of these politicians it seems would consider passing laws making droughts illegal if it crossed their minds. Bushfires would be another possibility, cancer, the ozone layer........

Take their rules as seriously as you take them.


- Wood Borer

[Sturdee]

Some of these politicians it seems would consider passing laws making droughts illegal if it crossed their minds. Bushfires would be another possibility, cancer, the ozone layer........
- Wood Borer


Careful now - they might read this and follow your advice.


Peter.

[Shane Watson]

Originally posted by downunderpom


Mind you - we're REALLY getting off the track here - this is, after all, a woodworking forum!

Steve

What? you've never encountered electrics in your woodworking history? Damn I've dealt with heaps of it, mostly only at 12volt level though..Gotta love them down lights in a display cabinet!

:D

[soundman]

What ofends me is, (climbing onto soap box)

A qualified electrical engineer with a broadcast operators certificate of proficiency can legaly work on equipment that will vaporise your arm in a flash. Construct a television transmitter with 100 000 watts of vision & 10 000 watts of sound. But can not replace a power point legaly. ????

[Pulpo]

What surprised me most on this link was no one tried to defend the current regulations, hmmm.

As they say you cannot polish a .

What is also archaic is it takes 4 years to become a sparkie, jumping a few hoops along the way. You cannot jump the hoops quicker, it still takes 4 years.

I do not know a university where "time" is the criteria its knowledge.

One day logic maybe prevail

Pulpo