Deep boring help.

[goodwoody]

Hello groovers
I'm in need of some assistance. I have made a lamp base and required someone to bore a hole through the center. lamp bade is about 450mm long. Hoping someone in the Brissy/Sunny Coast area will help. Damien.

[bitingmidge]

Gidday Damien,

I've got a bunch of Soundman's bits that'd be 400-ish... we could have a bash from both ends if you're game. I love learning how to do things at someone else's expense!

If you get a better offer from someone who knows what they are doing.... take it!

On the other hand, if you think you do..... well you're welcome to have a crack!

cheers,

P:D

[joe greiner]

That's it, Damien and midge. It's even called a "lamp auger." Drill from both ends, well beyond the centre. Even though the two holes might not meet exactly, there should be enough overlap to allow passage of the wiring tube (or whatever IT's called), with slight flexing.

Joe

[goodwoody]

Thanks fellas. I'm hoping someone can spin it on a lathe and use the hollow tailstock to drill out the center.

[joe greiner]

It's generally advisable to reverse mount and drill from both ends, because the drill bit will try to follow the grain and may even daylight away from the far end otherwise. If it's already turned, mounting or re-mounting could be dicey unless accommodation was made in advance. I'd suggest the lathe is not the best tool at this stage.

Joe

[bitingmidge]

So Damien,

Have you already turned it, carved it, or what?

My mini lathe has an extended bed, so length shouldn't be a problem, but I agree with Joe as far as degree of difficulty goes. Drilling into a wobbly bit of timber just won't work!

If it's some of your cedar, or you want to true it up first it shouldn't be a problem though!

I don't have an extension bar for the forstners, which would be the best way I think, but in the absence of the proper gear I'd start with a forstner each end, that'd get rid of 200 in a reasonably accurate way, then if the balance was done with an auger bit also from each end, there's not much room for wandering too far.

Your comments Joe?

Cheers,

P

[Rocker]

This is probably irrelevant at this stage; but I have found the easiest way to accommodate the cable when making a tall lamp is to make the column in two halves, cut matching dadoes with a dado set, and then glue the two halves together.

Rocker

[bitingmidge]

I'm with you Rocker, I did a power boat prop shaft like that once too, about three feet long. Perfect it was, with a perfectly straight pipe in it set in epoxy bog.

Then along came a boat-chippy, shrugged his shoulders and just whacked a big long hole through a lump of timber using a hand auger with a bit of reo welded on it! The hole was a bit wavy, but the shaft only had to line up between bearings at each end.

Sometimes I think we spend too much time thinking about how to do stuff, when all we need is a big lump of ignorance and a bit of brute strength!

Cheers,

P

[DJ’s Timber]

You need to get yourself one of these (http://cws-store.yahoostore.com.au/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_by_category?category_id=1107145003), they are surprisingly accurate when you set the job up properly

[bitingmidge]

That's what goodwoody's tying to find! Someone who has one! :D

cheers,

P
:D

[joe greiner]

I don't have an extension bar for the forstners, which would be the best way I think, but in the absence of the proper gear I'd start with a forstner each end, that'd get rid of 200 in a reasonably accurate way, then if the balance was done with an auger bit also from each end, there's not much room for wandering too far.

Your comments Joe?

Cheers,

P

G'day midge.

I think the hole only needs to be about 10mm (3/8") so a Forstner extension wouldn't fit anyway; the shank alone is 3/8" and the barrel would be close to 5/8" or more. An ordinary ship auger of the right size would probably be less dear than the gear in dj's link. Ship augers are about 300-400mm long IIRC.

Like these:
http://www.mcmaster.com/ Enter 2414 in the search field for catalog page. Several styles available.

A few years ago, Nawm (Abrams; New Yankee Workshop) made a few lamps; turned on the lathe, then drilled from each end with the lamp held in a padded vise. That's sorta what I had in mind.

Joe

[Sebastiaan56]

You need to get yourself one of these (http://cws-store.yahoostore.com.au/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_by_category?category_id=1107145003), they are surprisingly accurate when you set the job up properly

DJS,

So I take it you have one..... This issue is relevant to my flute neurosis. How do you set the job up properly? How deep can you go straight? What bore diameter are you achieving?

Sebastiaan

[Toolin Around]

Thanks fellas. I'm hoping someone can spin it on a lathe and use the hollow tailstock to drill out the center.

My lathe will take about a 1/4 drill bit through the tail stock and can handle about 5 1/2 feet. I just don't have any bits to do the long boring. I think Midge said he had some bits so we can probably combine something.

[DJ’s Timber]

DJS,

So I take it you have one..... This issue is relevant to my flute neurosis. How do you set the job up properly? How deep can you go straight? What bore diameter are you achieving?

Sebastiaan

The main thing is to have spur drive and live centre with removable centres. I have done from memory about 700mm or 800mm bore which was done from each end, the 2 meet up pretty close to each other, only a slight lip was felt.

Have done some that were a bit out but was still able to see daylight thru them. I think that those ones didn't have the time and effort put into them to get them right.

I have an old 3/8" one that was given to me which I need to replace as it has had a hard life and is wandering a bit and is not really suited for my lathe as it doesn't fit thru my centres<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[joe greiner]

A hollow spur drive with a removable centre sounds like a rare bird. [Also, you'd need reverse turning capability to drill through the headstock, or a power drill with the lathe stationary.] Reverse mounting to use the cup centre on the tailstock for both cuts seems simpler to me. For drilling the holes after removal from the lathe and then re-mounted, neither end would be perfectly centred, but shouldn't matter much as long as the speed is at minimum to reduce vibration. I just dismantled my MT2 live centre, and it passes a 3/8" rod. I didn't check any larger drill bits, so I'm not sure of the maximum it'd take - not much larger though.

Joe

[bitingmidge]

With Toolin's prompting, I knocked the centre spur out of the tail bit (see how technically adept I am), and found exactly as Joe describes. I reckon a 3/8" bit would fit no worries.

So I'll drop an auger bit in, and Toolin' reckons I won't have any trouble if I hold it with a pair of vice grips. Now I'm really curious

Thanks to all of you, I wouldn't have known about this stuff. If Damien doesn't turn up, I'll drill the middle out of a broom handle to see if I can!

Cheers,

P
:D

[joe greiner]

G'day midge.

I just read your post about 15 minutes ago, and figured I oughta test my own theory. I might have a long 3/8 bit around here someplace, but the largest close at hand was only 1/4. Worked a treat. Make sure to pull the bit frequently to clear the shavings; the flutes fill right quick, and they've got no place to go.

Small piece of cherry from some spindle practice a while back, about 5in (130mm) long. Drilled one end about 4in, then flipped to complete. I didn't spend too much time on the pic.

Joe

[Solutions Aust]

Hello groovers
I'm in need of some assistance. I have made a lamp base and required someone to bore a hole through the center. lamp bade is about 450mm long. Hoping someone in the Brissy/Sunny Coast area will help. Damien.

Hi Damien and other Woodies.

The job can quite easily be done on the right woodlathe.
Use a 3/8" diameter Long Hole Boring bit that is readily available.
Drill from one end only.
No motor reversing.
All special centres to do this work are also available.
refer www.woodfast.com.au (http://www.woodfast.com.au) for further info.

Regards Woodfast Aust:)

[rsser]

Yeah, it was a while back the only time I did it but think I used a hollow dead tail centre from Woodfast to pass through a cheap long twist bit from Carbatec (c. $25). (boring centre: http://www.timbecon.com.au/brands/157_1.aspx)

Initial turning was with a live cup/pin tail centre, the cup mark providing a reference point to later line up the ring of the hollow centre. Drilled only from the tail end obviously - I think the bit was long enough to hold with Jacobs chuck in hand. A recess in the base allowed chuck holding in expansion mode and I had domed it to provide clearance for the emerging bit tip.

Depth of 40cm; was only 1 cm off centre.

[Added; drilling from the top down gave some room to wander as the stand was one piece of wood curving roughly out to the base]

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Another trick I was taught (by my Grand-dad) is to use a length of hard-drawn copper tube of correct OD, and a hand-auger sized to fit snugly inside.

The end of the tube has teeth filed into the end and is mounted in a handle similar to a tap'n'die. It's used to make an initial cut, just a few mm deep, then the auger is fed down the inside to bore an inch or so. It's then extracted and the copper tube advanced to "trim" the the bore to final dia. The auger is reinserted to bore the next inch, removed, tube advanced, etc., etc.

This is a slow, laborious process all done by hand (machine speeds are way too fast and end up in disasters involving charring, binding, etc. DAMHIKT :rolleyes:) But with care and practice, it will drill a dead-straight bore through the most wayward grain!

Personally, for longhole boring I prefer an auger in a lathe, through a substantial piece of wood. Then remounting so the bore's on the central axis and turning the outside to match. Trying to drill a long bore through a piece of wood with minimal tolerance is not my idea of practical. :no:

[joe greiner]

True enough, all. But the bore for the lamp tube doesn't need to be dead straight. If there's enough overlap of the misaligned holes, the tube can flex to fit. Also, reverse mounting can just use a spur centre at the headstock, with minimal preparation except a slight bottom recess to accommodate the nut on the tube. Furthermore, and this is most important I think, the workpiece plus length of the tailstock plus enough shank for gripping can be almost double the length of the drill bit, although I'd limit it to about 1.5 - 1.75 to allow for some overlap. Minimise the tailstock allowance by cranking back just shy of the length to eject the live centre, but crank forward slightly to pinch the workpiece.

In fact, [subject to local regulations] the lamp can be constructed with less than a full-length tube. Just enough at the top to secure the socket (glued in); at the bottom, tie an underwriter's knot in the lamp cord to secure its position (which you should do anyway). If desired, drill an access hole from the side of the base in lieu of an access slot to intersect the vertical hole; tweezers can be helpful for placing the wire.

Joe

[rsser]

I'm not an expert but AFAIK we're not required to fit tubes to hold the flex in this country are we?

[OGYT]

Ern, do you have to have a lamp inspected before you can use it, in Oz? I thought we had some strict electrical codes in TX! We just run the cord through and stick the hardware on the top.
Just wonderin'.

[joe greiner]

Having considered some of the noise about verboten DIY electrical and plumbing work in Oz, prudence persuaded me to add the bit about local regulations. I can't imagine how an insulated lamp cord, restricted against chafing, could ignite a wooden lamp; but I've almost lost the ability to be surprised.

Correction: The underwriter's knot goes at the socket; a simple overhand knot for a stopper at the bottom. If the cord has an integral plug, feed and tie from the bottom up.

Joe

[rsser]

Ern, do you have to have a lamp inspected before you can use it, in Oz? I thought we had some strict electrical codes in TX! We just run the cord through and stick the hardware on the top.

Same here Al.

Leastways that's what I did; not sure if it's still legal - prob. not, without a commission of inquiry, independent inspection and a report to Homeland Security :doh:

... my problem was to find a shade that I liked to match at less than $350! So the lamp sits naked, waiting. (Made out of Cedar Wattle for local acacia afficianodos.)

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

A few years back I made some inquiries into this, having been asked to turn a few for sale. The result? I've no idea what the legal requirements are, as I was given conflicting info, but one thing that all agreed on was that each lamp had to be inspected and tagged before it could legally be sold.

What confused me was that most of the supposed requirements are not met by commercially available lamps already in stores. I suspect that most of them are actually conditions imposed on the lamp turners I asked by their insurance companies and not legal requirements per se.

I put it in the "can of worms" basket and didn't follow through. This won't stop me from making 'em for myself should I so desire though. :p I'd be simply threading the flex... the only time I'd use a tube is if 'twas a touch-lamp kit and the flex was earthed.

[goodwoody]

Midge, I will give you a ring this week. Damien.

[Rocker]

I am curious about what Midge is going to use that hollow broomstick for; I imagine it could have a use for a male child in New Guinea, but not in Maroochydore:)

Rocker

[rsser]

... or possibly a wizard apprentice ;-}

[Big Mac]

I have a P&N boring auger that should do the job. I am at Dulong .Give mePM if you need assistance.
Regards Neil

[rodent]

Hey Ern try this it would be a good work out for the proform www.woodshades.com
this guy does some incredible things have a look see .:2tsup:

[Hickory]

Okay, look at this idea, don't shun it till yopu try it.....

Set the piece between centers, turn a cup on the tailstock enfd that will fit around the tailstock hollow extension and as close to the live center as you dare. Now, draw back the tailstock and pop out the center, move the tailstock in close and use the stub of the extension as a dead center. Slide a long bit such as a lamp bit, in through the hole in the tailstock. Allow the lathe to turn (slowly) feed in the auger bit or drill bit. It should follow the directions directed by the tailstock.

Spoon bits are designed NOT to follow grain directions so try one of them but they are rare and hard to locate.

Just a thought... Aloha