bream

[weisyboy]

caught 90 bream last night.

[Iain]

I trust that at least 85 were returned.........

[weisyboy]

na it was a comp 90 were kept.

i drove aroud in the boat the next day and gave them to people that were sitting there not catching any thing kept 7 for myself going down again next weekend.

last year i spent all night at my spot and caught 300 legal size fish. and when cleaned they were all male.

[benji79]

And they were this big :hands: :blahblue:

[la Huerta]

i thought those days were over, where people would aim at catching hundreds of fish and keep them all just for the sake of it...

when i go fishing i only keep 1 or 2 fish and the rest get released to fight another day

[Iain]

I fly fish for just about anything that swims and over the years have watched the fish population reduce dramatically, I now fish all day and keep enough for a meal that day when we camp, that is generally two trout.
I have caught twenty plus in a morning but most are released unharmed, to make it more challenging I use barbless hooks.
Fly fishing for bream is productive and the same rules apply, and for estuary perch I will only keep one.
I am glad that someone agrees with my principles

[echnidna]

It is interesting that since the establishment of Marine Parks down this way that the ocean has become abundant with juvenile fish.

[weisyboy]

i go down and sit in my boat all night i get there about 3.30pm ancor and dont pull up the ancor untill 6am.

same place every time.

will post a pic after next weekend.

[martrix]

Crikey! Isn't there a bag limit?

[Honorary Bloke]

I am a big proponent of catch and release fishing, but not in every case. It depends on the fishing ground and surrounding environment. Especially in smaller lakes with limited fishing going on, the fish population surges, particulary for fish like bream, and there is not enough food to support the population.

I have known lakes, as well as larger stock ponds on rural blocks, where we were requested to please, please not return any fish caught, but to keep them.

Having said that, in general, catch and release is best, keeping only what you will eat. But if you clean, filet, and freeze them, that can still be a largish number.

[johnc]

There are strict bag limits on Bream down this way, but like the others reckon catch and release is the way to go keeping enough for a feed. Most of the time the catch tends to undersize with the odd keeper.
Even the humble mullet has a limit which is a good thing, but carp are a different story, all catch and keep and only good for fertiliser:roll: .

[la Huerta]

there is no bag limit on bream in the sunshine state, legal size is 23cm...

well i guess there must be plenty up there for everyone...

[benji79]

well i guess there must be plenty up there for everyone...

There wont be for very long if people keep taking that many fish.:((

[weisyboy]

i only keep that many for maby 2 or three comps a year the sestof the time i only keep enough for a couple of feeds untill i can get out next.

i fish in the gold coast broadwatter and they come in from out at sea in the winter so its not like i am fishing out a lake or dam.

[wattlewemake]

i only keep that many for maby 2 or three comps a year the sestof the time i only keep enough for a couple of feeds untill i can get out next.

i fish in the gold coast broadwatter and they come in from out at sea in the winter so its not like i am fishing out a lake or dam.


I saw a program on tv the other day about the gold coast seaway and they(sceintists) reckon that the local population of fish have learnt not to take a bait. They say that all the fish caught are blow ins from other areas that dont know the rules. Go figure. We have fish with brains up here.

I usually only take enough bream to get a meal out of and a sandwich the next day. I hate gutting bream due to the toughness of the throat and gill area. It forces me to be lazy and throw back ones I dont really want.

Shane.

[Honorary Bloke]

i
i fish in the gold coast broadwatter and they come in from out at sea in the winter so its not like i am fishing out a lake or dam.

Oops! :- Cultural disconnect. :rolleyes: What we call Bream over here never gets near salt water and the next one I catch that's over 23cm long will be the first one. :oo: Ours are smallish panfish well-suited to a quick fry-up, probably averaging 1/2 pound or so. They often become over-populated in lakes and need to be "managed."

Never mind.

[Iain]

Oops! :- Cultural disconnect. :rolleyes: .

Not really Bob, we have freshwater bream too, and catfish.
Saltwater Bream are also called Brim in some places and there are the fighters, Estuary Perch, I fly fish for these and someone asked me how do you know when you have one, my answer is, while retrieving with the line between your forefinger and thumb, they are suddenly pulled through the stripping guide, these buggers, pound for pound really give the bream a hiding.

[Honorary Bloke]

Not really Bob, we have freshwater bream too, and catfish.
Saltwater Bream are also called Brim in some places

Well, I feel summat better. Although we spell it bream, we pronounce it brim in all regions. Catfish are something else again. Not unusual to catch a 20 to 40 pounder in some rivers locally. Give you a nasty puncture if you're careless. :oo: But good to eat, filleted and skinned. Large market here for farm-raised catfish fillets. :)

[Iain]

And how do you catch catfish fillets? use the same bait as for kippers:p :p :wink: :D

[Honorary Bloke]

And how do you catch catfish fillets? use the same bait as for kippers:p :p :wink: :D

:doh: :doh: :B :U :U

[HappyHammer]

I can't see why you would have a competition that promotes the capture of that many fish. All the bream comps down this way require the use of live well tanks and the release of the fish after the comp. I'd guess you might be able to keep some based on bag limits.

Weisy, how many other boats were in the comp and how many fish were taken in total? Aren't you a little concerned over time this will have an impact on the Bream population in your area?

HH.

[weisyboy]

we just got back from tonights fishing trip.

we left here (gold coast marina) at 4.30 and just returned about 30 mins ago.

we have not counted the catch but it is probably about 45 we filled the esky. and we got 2 whoppers that will be over 1.4 kg. bigges i ahve everr seen.:oo:

[weisyboy]

I can't see why you would have a competition that promotes the capture of that many fish. All the bream comps down this way require the use of live well tanks and the release of the fish after the comp. I'd guess you might be able to keep some based on bag limits.

HH.

yer and look were you live "la la land"


there was about 15 boats and 400 fish went all together.:2tsup:

[hansp77]

I've been hesitant to reply to this thread,
cuase I have grown tired of internet arguments.
But, second big catch in a week, well I will have my say.

Personally I love fishing, and do it with a passion.
I fish to eat, and take pleasure in it- though the kill itself is always hard. As soon as I have caught enough, for me and my immediate companions, then I stop fishing. Sport fishing and catch and release, I just don't agree with.
Catching 90 fish for a competition, well that just makes me mad.

Most people I know who catch and kill a lot of fish are the types who will fillet off the very best bits only (ooh yuck, not bones) and end up throwing away a considerable amount of the fish. If not this, then maybe they will chuck it in the freezer for a few years untill they have to throw it out to make way for some fresher catch.
This again sickens me. I despise the wasting of meat- killed animal, fish or red meat- whatever.
I cook my fish whole, and very carefully and very well, and savour every little bit possible. I consider it a very serious and important thing to be taking the life of another animal just to enjoy catching, killing, and eating its body. It infuriates me to see disrepect and waste within this process.

I am all for people taking the initiative and responsibility to catch and kill their own animals rather than purchasing from the supermarket in a sanitized foam and plastic packaging in total isolation from the reality of its provisioning. But excess and waste within either form drives me crazy.

each to their own I suppose, though it irks me.

Weisyboy,
you must have a bloody big freezer:oo:
I know you said you give some away,
but,
135 fish in one week,
any chance you will be giving it a rest soon?
What condition do you think the oceans would be in if we were all catching and keeping the amount of fish that you are?

[Iain]

I find this is just pure stupidity, send me a reddy because I don't really give a rats ring, but to gloat about senseless slaughter of a resource is just absolutely moronic.
I have seen it happen in our rivers and we started to get some control and get it back, but to boast about catching more than what you really need is an admission of cretinism.
I love fishing, and because of people like you my kids probably will not have the opportunity to.

[Bleedin Thumb]

Me too, I haven't bought into this yet because.. well I was hoping it was some sort of unusual thing ..

You are the reason that the casual recreational fisherman like myself can't get a good feed when we do get to go for a fish.

What world are you living in that you think that you can go on a public forum and boast of such unsustanable practices..... What do you want - a pat on the back!

By the look of your other threads IE the grass tree's that you had ripped out of the ground you are a lost cause mate...


Have a redie mate.:((

[weisyboy]

:ranton:


Most people I know who catch and kill a lot of fish are the types who will fillet off the very best bits only (ooh yuck, not bones) and end up throwing away a considerable amount of the fish. If not this, then maybe they will chuck it in the freezer for a few years untill they have to throw it out to make way for some fresher catch.


i simply remove the head and gut and keep the rest you remove to much meat when filleting. i also keep the head and gut for crab bait and burley so none is waisted. the fish dose not stay in my freezer for moore than a month befor its gone.



you must have a bloody big freezer:oo:
I know you said you give some away,
but,
135 fish in one week,
any chance you will be giving it a rest soon?
What condition do you think the oceans would be in if we were all catching and keeping the amount of fish that you are?

we give away at least 50% of the catch to friends and rellies so they do not have to eat the crap that is imported from veitnam.

i have a regulsr sized freezer (top of a fridge freezer) to keep the catch in. but have a chest freezer for bait.

as i said i only do about 3 or 4 trips like this a year the rest is only a "few" winter whiting.

no offence but most people are not capable of catching that amount of fish. and there is that many bream around that i am not making a dent. you can snoirkle along the seaway walls and you cant see for the schools of bream and the schools are sometimes 40 ft accross. there is billions of them here.

:rantoff:

[weisyboy]

Me too, I haven't bought into this yet because.. well I was hoping it was some sort of unusual thing ..

You are the reason that the casual recreational fisherman like myself can't get a good feed when we do get to go for a fish.

wat the hell do you think i am i can go out all day and fish and not catch a thing. (i went out at 9 am thismorning and did not return untill about 3 pm and only landed 2 small flat head only just legal but i threw them back because i new i would gety plenty tonight.)
however when we went to the same place tonight i got those fish.



What world are you living in that you think that you can go on a public forum and boast of such unsustanable practices..... What do you want - a pat on the back!

i have just as much right to post here as anyone else. i do not go on about the amount of timber everyone is wasting. there is no diferance.



By the look of your other threads IE the grass tree's that you had ripped out of the ground you are a lost cause mate...


those trees were dead i planted them in my garden around the pool about 20 years ago when the house was built and they died recently. the scrub around here is full of them. i would not go and start riping down green ones. then what would the kids have to use as toy spears


Have a redie mate.:((

thats a bit harsh aint it. i have given out tones of greenies but never no mater what i thaught of anothers post have i given a redie. its just not cricket.

[weisyboy]

forgot to mention we eat fish in my house as others eat beef and pork and lamb. i am a strong beliver in beinbg self sustainable i grow all my own vegies and chooks for eggs and meat. we hardly buy and food from woolies. its the only way you can be sure it dosent come from china.

just thaught id mention that 50%($100) of our club fee goes toward restocking of the species we tearget. thats about $4000per year. as well as the volinteer work we do that puts back (as fingerlings) nearly twice what we take.

[Bleedin Thumb]

I don't give them lightly, only the second I've ever sent. I really find the keeping of that many fish offensive in this day and age. Let your relies and friends catch their own fish, and keep only what you can eat straight away.
Mate where have you been in the last 10 - 20 years. Don't you buy fishing magazines? Or don't you read the articles?

Actually mate I'm wondering about your boasting. I fish up on the broadwater at least a couple of times a year and i recon the only way you can be getting those numbers is by fishing in the canals where people feed them ... even then its a big ask...

BTW whoever edited my first post ..thanks:- I was a bit upset.:)

[weisyboy]

i will post a pic once we have layed them out for a photo this mornin we are still to clean them.

as i said you have to fish at night and know exactly were to fish to get them out in the broad water. a bit of burly helps to and only one one type of bait.

[Iain]

:doh: I give up:((

[robyn2839]

mate if you spent all night and caught 300 bream ,at say 1 per 2 minutes thats 10 hours,and if you used prawns or yabbies etc, thats 300 prawns , or yabbies etc and you still had time to clean them as well? .will post on ausfish that has to be some sort of record, thats the good thing about no bag limits on bream,you can bag out one night , then go and do it the next,and not have to worry about where the next feed is coming from cause there is no limit, and they are plentifull , otherwise they would tell us hey . bob

[Wood Butcher]

Robyn,

Just a side note, he never claimed to have caught 300 fish in one night. 90 one night and 45 the next time.

[Bleedin Thumb]

.

last year i spent all night at my spot and caught 300 legal size fish. and when cleaned they were all male.




Sound like it to me WB.

BTW Weisy what happened to those photos you said you would post.

[Wood Butcher]

My mistake I missed that post :-

[pawnhead]

Well, I suppose you've got to take all these claims with a grain of salt, however:

If there's no bag limit, and they're all legal size, and they all get eaten by someone, regardless of who that is, then what's the problem? Trawlers take a lot more than 300 fish in a haul don't they? What do you want to do? Stop eating fish and rape the planet to grow more beef, or should we all just turn into tree hugging vegan greenies?

If there was a problem with bream stock, then they should impose a bag limit and ban all fishing, including commercial trawling. I'm sure they put more of a dent in it than weisboy. If your worried about it, then stop eating fish because you're just as much a criminal for encouraging trawling.

Of course most of the detractors just want the stocks as high as possible so they can continue the sport with more chance of a catch, and they pat themselves on the back for being 'environmentally conscious', but if weisboy wants to keep his for eating, then that's his prerogative.
If you want fish stocks up, then petition fish shops to stop selling fish.

I don't fish much, but I buy fish with chips, and I don't feel guilty about eating it. :q

edit: I find it absolutely ludicrous that fisherman can believe that they're actually making much of a difference by throwing back a few fish, when you consider that a trawler will go out day after day, targeting entire schools of fish and throw back nothing at all. I think the only reason is to keep their favourite fishing grounds stocked up for sport, but bugger the rest of the oceans. The fish that you throw back would represent a miniscule percentage of the fish that are consumed in this world each day.

If you really want to validate your environmental concerns, then throw them all back and stop eating fish. Otherwise, you're only fooling yourself into believing that you have some concern for anything except your own interests.

[Bleedin Thumb]

No thats niave John. I eat fish quite a bit. There is a difference between recreational fishing and commercial fishing.

Fish stocks have plumeted over the last 20 years because of commercial and recreational fisherman practicing unsustainable fishing techniques. This trend has tried to be corrected by heavily regulating commercial fishing with quota's, no-go zones etc and by educating and sometimes regulating the recreational fisherman.

Petitioning fish shops to stop selling fish isn't going to increase fish stocks - chaining weisyboy to dry land may help!:D

[pawnhead]

So who are you going to deny the right to eat fish? The guy who lives a hundred miles from the coast and has no interest in fishing?

As I said, the only way to validate your concerns are to stop eating fish yourself, and pursue it simply as a sport.

If you eat them yourself, then your just as criminal as any trawling company.

Unless you want to impose a quota of fish consumed per person, regardless of their interest in the sport of fishing, then we're all as guilty as each other of depleting fish stocks. In fact fishermen are probably more guilty than others, because they probably consume more than the average quota of fish. They're just more interested in keeping their own fishing grounds stocked up. :wink:

[HappyHammer]

edit: I find it absolutely ludicrous that fisherman can believe that they're actually making much of a difference by throwing back a few fish, when you consider that a trawler will go out day after day, targeting entire schools of fish and throw back nothing at all.
Errr John, recreational fishing and the money it generates from licenses has resulted in a reduction in commercial fishing in places like Sydney Harbour which has seen fish stocks bounce back so not sure your point is valid.

HH.

[pawnhead]

Errr John, recreational fishing and the money it generates from licenses has resulted in a reduction in commercial fishing in places like Sydney Harbour which has seen fish stocks bounce back so not sure your point is valid.

HH.My point exactly. Keep the harbour stocked up for us recreational fisherman, but bugger the fishing grounds that are too hard for us to get to.
The money that you generate goes directly into protecting your own interests, and has very little to do with reducing the amount of fish that are taken from the oceans and sold to fish shops.
It may drive the price of fish up very slightly, and it certainly protects your handy fishing grounds, but it does virtually nothing to help the bigger picture.

Of course no one wants the harbour fished out, but everyone seems to be coming down hard on weisboy whereas I don't see anything wrong with what he's done. If he can catch 300 fish in a night :roll:, and there's no bag limit, then what's the problem so long as they're eaten by someone? It saves them from buying a fish in the shop, and saves the life of a fish somewhere else.

If there's a problem with fish stocks, then I doubt he'd be catching so many, and the authorities would probably be imposing a bag limit.

As far as I'm concerned, at least he's putting all the fuel that his boat is using to a good purpose by actually feeding some people, instead of using it purely for his own entertainment, which makes him less of a vandal than other fisherman. :2tsup:

[Bleedin Thumb]

So who are you going to deny the right to eat fish? The guy who lives a hundred miles from the coast and has no interest in fishing?

Who said anything about stopping people eating fish. Fish are a reniewable resource that has to be managed correctly to be sustainable.

As I said, the only way to validate your concerns are to stop eating fish yourself, and pursue it simply as a sport.

No I just fish in a responsible manner and don't take more than I need for a feed.

If you eat them yourself, then your just as criminal as any trawling company.

Who said trawlers or any commercial fisherman are criminals. I buy fish from the fishmarkets every week. Up untill recently the harvesting of fish has been undertaken using methods that were unsustainable and the seafood has been sold for less than its true worth. That is changing and the cost of fish is rising because the resourse costs more to extract and compliance costs for fishermen are higher.
Also a lot of aquaculture is comeing into play so we are farming seafood - again sustainable practices.


Unless you want to impose a quota of fish consumed per person, regardless of their interest in the sport of fishing, then we're all as guilty as each other of depleting fish stocks. In fact fishermen are probably more guilty than others, because they probably consume more than the average quota of fish. They're just more interested in keeping their own fishing grounds stocked up. :wink:

I do want to keep my fishing spots stocked with fish its called the east coast of Australia ( and any other ocean or river I happen to want to fish in).

I want this not just for myself but for the sake of my children and their children. John this is no different to the forest debate, just because you use wood doesn't make you a criminal likewise there is nothing wrong with commercial logging as long as its sustainable, you can't keep raping and pillaging the planets natural resources ..taking 300 fish in one night is pillaging no other word for it......I also think its a bloody big lie :roll:

[pawnhead]

Who said anything about stopping people eating fish. Fish are a reniewable resource that has to be managed correctly to be sustainable. Exactly. And the powers that be have determined that there’s no need to impose a bag limit.
No I just fish in a responsible manner and don't take more than I need for a feed. But you waste a lot of fuel with very little to show for it. At least weisboy is feeding a lot of people for the amount of fuel that he’s burning.
I think I read somewhere that for every joule of energy that’s produced in food, it takes ten times that amount of input energy, either in fossil fuels, electricity, transport etc. weisboy is doing us all a favour in reducing the amount of energy that would otherwise have been wasted by simply throwing his catch back, and forcing his benefactors to source their food elsewhere.
Who said trawlers or any commercial fisherman are criminals. It’s a bit hypocritical to say that trawling entire schools of fish, day after day is AOK, but to catch 300 fish, and actually kill and eat them deserves a reddie.
Also a lot of aquaculture is comeing into play so we are farming seafood - again sustainable practices. That’s all good. Perhaps you could make your use of fuel more sustainable, by actually producing some energy to offset the waste, by feeding people your catch instead of throwing it back in the ocean. ;)
I want this not just for myself but for the sake of my children and their children. Of course. Just don’t fool yourself into believing that you’re doing it for the planet. It’s for you personally, and for your own children. Not for the bugger that lives a hundred miles from the ocean.
John this is no different to the forest debate, just because you use wood doesn't make you a criminal likewise there is nothing wrong with commercial logging as long as its sustainable, you can't keep raping and pillaging the planets natural resources ..taking 300 fish in one night is pillaging no other word for it......I also think its a bloody big lie I find it quite hypocritical to suggest that it’s OK to trawl the oceans, but not to take a measly 300 fish from your own fishing grounds. You’ve offered no proof at all that weisboys’ actions are unsustainable. If they were, then I’m sure the authorities would impose a bag limit. He’s not doing anything illegal, and if he’s to be believed, then half of his clubs fees goes in restocking with fingerlings, double the amount that he harvests.

Yet everyone seems to be treating him as if he’s clubbing seal pups to death.

Of course you’ll probably say that if every man and his dog went out and took 300 fish a night there’d be none left, and you’d probably be right. But the fact of the matter is that they don’t, and until they do there seems to be no reason for a bag limit that seems to reward the wasteful, and punish those that choose to put their fuel energy to good use above simply throwing it away.

AFAIK that would be more like pillaging. The big difference is that you’re doing it purely for amusement. “Lets put a barbed hook through some poor fish's jaw, drag him around for half an hour, hoist him out of the water, take a pic and give him a kiss to show that there’s no hard feelings, then throw him back. Lets just hope that he lives through all the trauma so we can do it to him again”. Sounds a bit sadistic to me, but then, I’m not a fish so I wouldn’t know how it feels. :D

[TEEJAY]

The big difference is that you’re doing it purely for amusement. “Lets put a barbed hook through some poor fish's jaw, drag him around for half an hour, hoist him out of the water, take a pic and give him a kiss to show that there’s no hard feelings, then throw him back. Lets just hope that he lives through all the trauma so we can do it to him again”. Sounds a bit sadistic to me, but then, I’m not a fish so I wouldn’t know how it feels. :D

When fishing you can't be naturally selective as the which fish takes your bait - by example I fish for food and do return some for both

1 if it is too small then let it grow - and it could be illegal size.

2 if it is a big fish it is most likely a breeding female hence it is a great resource alive so let it go. Take a pic first.

Medium sized flathead I will keep and eat with family; small and large fish I will return - no cruelty intended - I regard it as responsible fishing.

[weisyboy]

finaly someone that isnt against me.

the fish were cleaned and are in my freezer there were 42 all together and one was 1.09kg the next was 1.03kg and the third .85kg. no joke the biggest 2 were 45cm long. i returnd all 9 of the femails i caught.

[Bleedin Thumb]

There is a saying here.................If there's no photo it didn't happen.

BTW was that 9 included in the 42 or plus the 42? & how can you tell that they were female?

[pawnhead]

*weisboy runs off to local fish shop with camera in hand*

Hey weisboy, I'll give you a hand (http://images.google.com.au/images?hl=en&q=bream&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2)
Are you any good at photoshop? :wink:

[weisyboy]

BTW was that 9 included in the 42 or plus the 42? & how can you tell that they were female?

the nine were included in the count but were returned to the watter imediatly. females have a red bumhole during the last half of winter. go sompthing to do with the row they are carrying.


Hey weisboy, I'll give you a hand (http://images.google.com.au/images?hl=en&q=bream&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2)
Are you any good at photoshop?

they wouldnt help much only one or two of them are australian brim.

wether you belive me or not is your choice no skin off my nose.

[Christopha]

Weisyboy, I think you are a greedy,arrogant, rapacious plick. I can't believe that anyone in this day can possibly believe that this sort of fishing is sustainable or your attitude acceptable. I also am stunned that you are stupid enough to post tales of your vandalism in the mistaken belief that the readers of this forum would think you are a hero or somesuch... Idiot! Reddie sent

[Honorary Bloke]

Weisyboy, I think you are a greedy,arrogant, rapacious plick. I can't believe that anyone in this day can possibly believe that this sort of fishing is sustainable or your attitude acceptable.

Well, what do you really think? The problem with having a reputation as a stirrer is that it is difficult to take your posts as seriously as we should. Now I suppose you will send ME a reddie and on and on it goes. :?

[Gra]

Well, what do you really think? The problem with having a reputation as a stirrer is that it is difficult to take your posts as seriously as we should. Now I suppose you will send ME a reddie and on and on it goes. :?

I think you will find that Christopha has his tounge so far into his cheek, it is coming out the other side

[silentC]

He wants you to send him a reddie. He loves them :)

[TEEJAY]

He wants you to send him a reddie. He loves them :)

Never ceases to amaze me what people collect :p

[Bleedin Thumb]

the fish were cleaned and are in my freezer there were 42 all together


So when you say 42 you actually mean 33. Which actually started out at 45...But thats Ok because it is fishing after all and no one is going to let the facts get in the way of a good story.....:D

[BazzaDLB]

For what it is worth - I would find it hard to be a member of a fishing club that holds comps where members take that many fish (or more!!) purely to have bragging rights that they won. Would be interested in which club it is and also where your fingerlings are released

[Bleedin Thumb]

I have never heard of bream fingerlings being released, is that what you use Weisyboy?

[benji79]

For what it is worth - I would find it hard to be a member of a fishing club that holds comps where members take that many fish (or more!!) purely to have bragging rights that they won. Would be interested in which club it is and also where your fingerlings are released

I agree, I'm part of a very large fishing forum which has allot of club talk on it, this is never an issue as all clubs ive read up on have live weigh ins and release all fish after the comp. Didn't think this sort of behavior still existed. I'm sure the government will bring in bag limits when its almost too late from commercial fisherman and so called "fishing clubs" decimating the populations.

[weisyboy]

:gaah: you guys can crap on but im out of here :scareboo:

[RETIRED]

Although breaming withplatitudes and a lot of carping this one has been fished out.:;