chain styles

[weisyboy]

i have been trying out chains and i will post my finds and anyone else that has tryed different styles plese add them to.

I got an old chain and removed 2 teath and left 1 removed 2 and left 1 and so on and so forth. got a hardwood log and gave it a try.

well I have never seen anything cut so slow even on camphor it cut realy slow.

DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME.

[Dean]

yeah I tried skip tooth chain but it didn't seem to cut any faster than a normal chain for me :?

How many teeth were left on your chain after you tried that?

[slabber]

on the chain saw portable mill 4 footer i run skip tooth , 1 tooth , skip 1 tooth ,1tooth and so on ,no probs. on the lucus mill 8 footer , i run extended skip ,1 tooth skip 5 teeth , 1tooth and so on , no probs, slow and steady wins the race :)

[weisyboy]

skip chain (take 2 leave 2)cutts a lot fasster than regular chain.



on the chain saw portable mill 4 footer i run skip tooth , 1 tooth , skip 1 tooth ,1tooth and so on ,no probs. on the lucus mill 8 footer , i run extended skip ,1 tooth skip 5 teeth , 1tooth and so on , no probs, slow and steady wins the race :)

if you remove every second toot you end up with all the teeth on one side you have to take them a set at a time.

[echnidna]

Coz the saw cuts ter one side yer can cut round blanks outa logs. :rolleyes:

[BobL]

To "use skip chain" or "not to use skip chain" seems to be about as clear as mud.

My take on this is as follows:
The variables are;
1) Engine power/torque
2) Number of cutters per unit chain length
3) length of cut
4) Hardness of timber
5) Force being applied to the mill
6) Cutting width/profile of chain/cutters
7) Sharpness/state of cutters/chain
8) State of the bar
9) Angle of cutting edge.
10) Anything else?

A really powerful engine will pull a lot of cutters through a long cut in softwood, but pushing harder to try to speed up cutting can still bog the engine down because ultimately there is only so much sawdust you can fit between the teeth.
Solution: use semi-skip or skip chain.
However: reducing the number of cutters so you can push harder is a waste of your energy and may not improve your cutting speed as you have less teeth in the cut. It maybe better to use regular chain and just not push as hard. This is what some of the folk on arborist site do even on really long (60") bars.

In contrast, a low powered saw simply cannot pull a lot of cutters through a long cut in really hard wood .
Solution: use semi-skip or skip chain and/or don't push as hard.
However: control of cutting speed by not pushing becomes more difficult for the operator as sharp chains generate some of their own "bite" and full complement of teeth may still slow down the engine on their own, and an operator should not be required to continually hold the saw back from the cut.
Using skip or semi-skip will help but a similar benefit may be obtained for a lower powered saw by going to a lower profile/narrower chain.

So like most things there is a fair bit of swings and roundabouts. There is a normal expectation that the operator will operate the engine/mill to maximise cutting speed but there are probably only small improvements to be derived from optimising all these variables for cutting speed, and other factors may come into play.

I'm using (trying out) skip chain primarily to reduce the load on the engine. I expect it to cut a bit slower but my engine not to to be working at it's absolute maximum grunt while cutting as I want my engine to last for a least a while.

I hope the mud has cleared a bit - well - maybe not!:wink:

Cheers

[BobL]

if you remove every second toot you end up with . . . . . . .

toot....toot....toot - is that like "out of toon"?:D

[slabber]

the water is still muddy for some, buy propper skip chain soyou dont end up cutting round blanks:~ ,1tooth skip 1, 1 tooth skip one etc, the skip tooth chain clears the saw dust out easier and quicker.

[weisyboy]

i agree that propper skip chain is the way to go. :2tsup:

I have found that it cuts a lot faster than normal chain especialy in bloodwood.

[slabber]

water getting clearer now:)

[Marc]

To rip with chainsaw you need power and a proper rip chain. Buy one ready made, they are not much dearer then ordinary chain. Don't buy full chisel, its only good for soft wood. If you have a bigger saw that uses .404 chain, you are better off converting it to 3/8. Less saw dust, better and quicker cut.
I find that it is essential to learn to sharpen the chain by hand. Nothing gives you better insight as to how the chain works and cuts. then to sharpen and see the difference. I use a 100cc Homelite 1050. My Super XL925 does the job too. Anything less than 80cc means slow and overheating.
Consider an external oiler if you want to make long cuts.

[Sigidi]

Ok for slabbing whole logs, I haven't used anything other than ripping chain 27RA or 27RX, that's a single skip and a 5 skip respectively. Filed at 10 deg top plate, 75 deg side plate and 10 deg file angle.

For something smaller like ripping out a 'bench/seat leg' from a forked off-cut something thin (say 12"-18" dia.) and short (say 3'-4' long) and rustic looking, I've have had no trouble with a full compliment cross-cut chain on a 372 XP with standard filing angles 30deg top plate, 60 deg side plate and 10 deg file angle.

Hope it adds to the discussion and isn't too old

[weisyboy]

To rip with chainsaw you need power and a proper rip chain. Buy one ready made, they are not much dearer then ordinary chain. Don't buy full chisel, its only good for soft wood. If you have a bigger saw that uses .404 chain, you are better off converting it to 3/8. Less saw dust, better and quicker cut.
I find that it is essential to learn to sharpen the chain by hand. Nothing gives you better insight as to how the chain works and cuts. then to sharpen and see the difference. I use a 100cc Homelite 1050. My Super XL925 does the job too. Anything less than 80cc means slow and overheating.
Consider an external oiler if you want to make long cuts.

i compleatly disagre.
everyone says that you need a big saw.
i run a little stihl 034av (61cc) with a 25" bar it has enough power to keep pulling when the whole darit buried in the log.
when i baught the mill everybody said i would need a saw with 90cc all you do by getting a realy big saw is use extra fuel.

[Marc]

i compleatly disagre.
everyone says that you need a big saw.
i run a little stihl 034av (61cc) with a 25" bar it has enough power to keep pulling when the whole darit buried in the log.
when i baught the mill everybody said i would need a saw with 90cc all you do by getting a realy big saw is use extra fuel.

You are entitled to your opinion yet your Stihl 034 would last a day or two cutting 20" logs providing they are pine, cyprus or similar soft wood.

Try slabbing a couple of larger hard wood logs even green and no small chainsaw is up the task. I had my first chainsaw at age 11, a Mcculloch 200 at age 54 I have 5 chainsaw from 60cc to 100cc and can tell you with certainty that yes, you can rip a log as an experiment, but you will not be slabbing anything for more than an hour or so with a small chainsaw. No disrespect, it is not about size, it is a bout what a chainsaw was designed for.

[weisyboy]

Try slabbing a couple of larger hard wood logs even green and no small chainsaw is up the task. I had my first chainsaw at age 11, a Mcculloch 200 at age 54 I have 5 chainsaw from 60cc to 100cc and can tell you with certainty that yes, you can rip a log as an experiment, but you will not be slabbing anything for more than an hour or so with a small chainsaw. No disrespect, it is not about size, it is a bout what a chainsaw was designed for.

you are entitled to your opininon to but.

recently slabed a spotty gum 24" diamater 3 sections 2.4m long 1 cubic meter in all it took me a full day and a half including felling.
the saw was running the whole time (more or less) and never missed a beat.

i have also slabbed aproximately 5 cubic meters of ironbark, bluegum, swamp mahogany, stringgybark and greygum.

if you are using mccallocs then offcorse you need a huge saw they are gutless.

[BobL]

You are entitled to your opinion yet your Stihl 034 would last a day or two cutting 20" logs providing they are pine, cyprus or similar soft wood.. . . . . . . . . . but you will not be slabbing anything for more than an hour or so with a small chainsaw. No disrespect, it is not about size, it is a bout what a chainsaw was designed for.

Well . . . . that is not the views of the very experienced millars on the Arboriste site, or my limited experience. There are plenty of guys who mill for years using small saws. It's not uncommon for them to mill up to 20 or 24" logs using 50cc saws. Sure most of it softwood but they get a lot more than 1 or 2 days out of their saws.

As well as the Stihl 076, I have a 54 cc Homelite 340 that I have used to mill about a dozen small (up to 18") sheoaks, plus a few other bits and pieces including some incredibly hard small (14") desert eucalypts and this little saw is showing no signs of slowing down. The secret is to reduce the stress on the engine by using low profile narrow kerf chain. I'm using low profile 0.050 on a 20" blade and it fair rips through those small logs almost as fast and much easier to handle than balancing BIL on a small log.

Depending on how they are treated small engine saws can last a long time. One advantage of the bigger engines is they can be abused a bit more and still last.

[Sigidi]

Weisyboy, About 1 cube of log in a day and half? Mate my hat goes off to you, I couldn't push a saw for that long to get through 1 cube. I just couldn't work that hard.

THe worst I've had to work has been 1200 dia. one end 700 the other, 3.5m long. bluegum (forest red) it took me two days to cut and re-stack with stickers, no equipment, no offsider. Just man-handling the slabs to the stack, the log was about 2.5 cube and I only had 2 hours of engine time over the two days.

As a consequence I have shied away from the stack of slab logs I have in the yard as I want to work out a better way to move the cut slabs rather than my left and right hand:(

Will have to come up with something quick as Wifey is not happy with having so many logs kicking around and I can't sell 'em as solid logs!:no:

[weisyboy]

thats just it sigidi when i baught the mill everybody was raving on about how hard the work is and how slow they cut.

i find the work enjoyable it isnt hard at all. not comperd to my ay job anyway.

and they cut quite fast.

it all depends on the type of chain you run.

but some people are just wingers that work in ofice blocks that find mowing there 5 square meters of lawn hard work.

i went to look at a whippersnipping job on thursday he wanted 2 blokes for 3 hours to whipersnip the peice around his house. i told him i charge $45 an hour for me and my equipment. i went to do it on friday i did it in 2 hours on my own. should of told him it would be $270 not $45 an hour.

[Sigidi]

Too true mate, some folkes, especially the young 'uns want everything for nothing and don't seem to be able to "WORK" a day of their life. My kids are unbelievable...

When working the mill myself it is a hard days work - some days picking upwards of 4 ton a day and I hear enough gripe about walking to and from the bus stop 1km away!!

I too love milling, nothing better hey? and I'm lucky I don't see it as work either, I enjoy it too much - mind you don't tell the clients they will want it for free:D

[weisyboy]

watch what you say about young folk we arnt all as old as you:U.

it is great to see the wonders that lye inside those croutches and ascrapy looking logs that no one else would touch.

the timber nevver looks as good as when its fresh off the saw.

[Sigidi]

Yeah mate I'm a bit of an old 32...
Nah teenagers are who constantly have me shaking my head. Older generations have done the yards, they know what work is and aren't afraid of doing some work!

Fresh off the saw - wifey loves the look of the framing at the moment, it's all fresh sawn flooded gum (well less than a week from the log) and a bonus is the logs where destined for the local dump, a bit of tension in them, so not recovering as high a percentage of straight stuff, but every good stick is worth rescueing them from being dumped.

[weisyboy]

sure is sidigi.
i get most of my timber from the bloke across the road he has a bit of a dump where the tree loppers ump there stuff. its amazing what just gets burnt or buried when we are so short of good hardwood.

are you using wet flooded gum to build a house?

[Sigidi]

Flooded gum - yep for the internal frame, it's not loadbearing or structural as the trusses span the building without worries, and besides I've got nothing else left which is good enough. I've got about 30 cube of log ready for slabbing, but they are all 'ugly' logs not a good billet of straight grain in any of them

[weisyboy]

its not the flooded gum i have a problem with its the wet part.

my house was built out of what was suposed to be dry ironbark 4x2 s they have now shrunk and cracked the gyprockwalls and left gaps where the weatherboars meat the roof.

[bobsreturn2003]

here we go again , when i built my slabber 13hp honda . got a roll of chain and 5ft lucas bar, a maple log and tried custom cutting chain , after an afternoon ,found the lucas guys had it right again ,5 pair out 1 pair left ,worked best, certainly makes for a quick sharpen, and seems to cut as quick .when sharp. didnt cut the teeth right down just took the tops off . use a 1 skip on my 066x4ft bar seems to work fine , just enough power for our soft woods , i use my carbide chain for dirty wood and burls , can get it really sharp with a rotary diamond file ,some burl is full of ant bed . like cutting a grinding wheel . with ordinary chain . find the theory is fine but whats working for you ,that you own . thats working ,why change ,untill you can upgrade? in the tropics 75cc is a good size saw ,for all round use . 50cc good for limbing and cutting blanks . slabbing on site use the biggest saw you can get , the old ones run slow and long 090 possibly the best saw made dont hurt your ears so much , cheers bob

[Sigidi]

Bob I get the feeling you've written this before?

[DJ’s Timber]

We've been through all this done at the yard, tried all different combinations and in the end we've always gone back to the standard 2 on, 5 off skip which is recommended by Lucas for work wider than 750mm, for stuff under 750mm, 2 on, 3 off skip is recommended.

Can't really comment much on the 2 on, 3 off for the smaller stuff because we rarely cut anything smaller than 900mm with the slabber so don't have a chain in that configuration, but the 2 on 5 off works well plus the chain comes that way, why try modifying a chain that is proven to work well.

[dai sensei]

I just got new 42" and 60" bars for my Stihl660 from different stores. At both I asked for skip ripping chain to suit bars but didn't stipulate to see what they came up with. The 60" store came with skip 1, the other came with skip 2, neither I considered ripping chain suitable for that sized bar. I thought the 42" should have skip 3 and the 60" skip 5 which is in line with what DJ was saying. The 2 chains I got for the 60" were free so I couldn't really complain, although they were brand new, I think they were old stock he was trying to off-load.

[Exador]

We've been through all this done at the yard, tried all different combinations and in the end we've always gone back to the standard 2 on, 5 off skip which is recommended by Lucas for work wider than 750mm, for stuff under 750mm, 2 on, 3 off skip is recommended.

Can't really comment much on the 2 on, 3 off for the smaller stuff because we rarely cut anything smaller than 900mm with the slabber so don't have a chain in that configuration, but the 2 on 5 off works well plus the chain comes that way, why try modifying a chain that is proven to work well.




Couldn't agree more.

[weisyboy]

why try modifying a chain that is proven to work well.




quite right why fix sompthing that aint broke.

however the only way ot find out whats best is to try it youself.

[Ali G]

here we go again , when i built my slabber 13hp honda . got a roll of chain and 5ft lucas bar, a maple log and tried custom cutting chain , after an afternoon ,found the lucas guys had it right again ,5 pair out 1 pair left ,worked best, certainly makes for a quick sharpen, and seems to cut as quick .when sharp. didnt cut the teeth right down just took the tops off . use a 1 skip on my 066x4ft bar seems to work fine , just enough power for our soft woods , i use my carbide chain for dirty wood and burls , can get it really sharp with a rotary diamond file ,some burl is full of ant bed . like cutting a grinding wheel . with ordinary chain . find the theory is fine but whats working for you ,that you own . thats working ,why change ,untill you can upgrade? in the tropics 75cc is a good size saw ,for all round use . 50cc good for limbing and cutting blanks . slabbing on site use the biggest saw you can get , the old ones run slow and long 090 possibly the best saw made dont hurt your ears so much , cheers bob

We've got an 090 that we rebuilt, and tried running skip tooth on it after recomendations from another miller who uses a Husky.

Hated the skip tooth. It was shop bought, not modified. We couldn't wait to go back to the chains we originally used.

I think one poster summed it up earlier on. Depends on your saw ets as to what chain is best. The guy who recomended the skip tooth is running a different type of saw to us.
I could be wrong but I would describe his saw as a high revving machine compared to our Sthil 090 being a low revving but high torque saw, better suited to a non skip chain.

Just my thoughts and observations.

[weisyboy]

strange but this is y we have to give everything a try.