A Kapex Thread

[LGS]

Hi all,

I wonder if it's worth setting up a thread specifically for Kapex familiarization. I had a tentative play with Klaus this afternoon and it seems to me that there are a number of ways of achieving the same result. So maybe we could set this topic (or another) just for the use of Klaus, his jugged 'alibut:) , and their friends.
We could have a new thread within this topic for each activity's discussion. This way, we may avoid the 2 days of searching for appropriate information that occured with the Dominatrix.
Ever wondered what it would be like to have enough power to cut 32mm redgum without using the saw at max power and what it would be like to cut mitres without more than a short pencil mark at one point on the workpiece and have it perfect every time?
I like this saw. Mmmmmmmmm...Kapex

Rob.

[Pete 42]

My first question is:
Do I now have to find a name for my Kapex???

[LGS]

Pete,

May I suggest, Katarina, Kornprobst, Kastellan, Kandi?:)

Rob

[Pete 42]

Hi Rob,

I was kind of fond of the name Klaus - but...............

Anyway, I've slowly but surely been learning to love Wolfgang's lasers. With more use I'm now at the point where I can read the laser sights quite accurately. That was great untill that site job last Saturday - outside - in the sun.

[LGS]

Pete,
Wolfy sounds good, sure to be a hoooowling success.
Had m'first hand to hand with Klaus today and not being one to shy away from destruction of rare and valuable timbers, went straight to work on highly figured red gum and some Huon pine. The lasers are just brilliant (no pun!!) for alignment. Its just a bit nerve racking putting your faith in two red lines, but talk about clean, precise cuts. Awesome. I'll post the table top I'm making tomorrow. This is the first time I've felt confident making Mitred corners for a hall table, but using Klaus and Delphinium Domino...just awesome! ( I think I said that already!!)

Regards,

Rob

[Honorary Bloke]

Well, this is deja vu innit? Sorry seppos sit on the sidelines while you Ozzies gloat. :(

Anyway, post all your tips and tricks as a future reference. :)

[Pete 42]

Wolfy needs glasses. :C
Set Wolfy up yesterday for a few assorted jobs and found that one of the lasers was way out of line. Quite disturbing - will investigate further today and post results. Damn I've started to rely on those red lines!!!

[nt900]

Pete,

One of the few adjustments on the KAPEX is the laser assembly. Although it should be aahhh just right straight out of the box, but look at image 3 / section 9.1 of your user manual for a run-down the procedure. I have not had the need to adjust a laser yet, but am keen to hear about your success getting it spot on.

[LGS]

Hi all,

About 1/2 of my life was spent aligning lasers through fluid streams of about 50-70 micrometres diameter, using only a CRT and some beads that glow in the dark. I haven't had to adjust Klaus as yet, but I'm hoping it isn't as tricky as Argon and the bigger HeNe lasers.
I thought I might show some pics of the lasers in operation and give some very preliminary opinions.

The photos show the lasers in use to trim an uneven pair of mitres, a straight dock and the resultant mitre from the laser guided trim along with the entire frame I am making.

My initial impressions are that the saw is robust, flexible in the manner in which a particular cut can be made and that it is quite intuitive to operate. I don't know that I'd have any qualms letting other people use it after they have been shown some basics such as "here is the blade, don't touch while its running."
The beast throws out a lot of dust. I think its killed my Karcher.:C , so be sure your vac system is up to the task or be buried in sawdust.
Its very quiet to operate and light enough to be moved from one place to another on a temporary basis. I suspect that Wolfy's problem is related to a fixture having moved during transit and would expect the issue to be very easily fixed and it is amazing how fast you come to rely on the laser alignment.

I have reservations about cutting thin slices from small stock and actually prefer to use the Makita LS1214 for this, but it may be that I am just not used to the saw layout.
There is provision for an operator to attach wooden fences to the metal ones already there. I think this would be a good idea particularly when cutting dadoes and using the "special cutting position".
If I think of more I'll post them.

Regards,

Rob and Klaus (I haven't told him about Wolfy yet, guess I had better.):o Delphinium Domino will look after him.

[LGS]

Klaus took Wolfy's condition better than I thought.
Here's the most tedious, labor intensive way to make compound mitres known to mankind.

1. Use the swivel fine adjust to the 45 degree mark and move the base to 15 degrees.
2. Cut.
3. Measure to next cut then line up the lasers to get a continuous pair of lines.
4. Remove marking piece and cut
5. and 6. Check the joint for fit. Ah!.. just like a bought one:U . Considering it all took about 2 minutes, Festool will just have to do better.

Rob

[Pete 42]

Rob,
Be sure to let Klaus know that Wolfy's vision is now 20/20. In fact better than new. From day one I found that the lasers were quite close, but not exact in their alignment. Then after the one outing from the factory, something definitely moved in the right laser. after (as neatly as possible) puncturing the label to access the laser adjustment, I found that in just 10 minutes both the lasers are now spot on. I'll rely on them even more!!!

Also interesting is the reaction from other tradies that are viewing Wolfy for the first time. Some are sceptical, but after a 2 minute demo of the bevel adjustment (I've already got them BEFORE showing the fine adjust), smart bevel and the lasers, the comments range from: "looks pretty good" through to "I'm getting one!!"

Wolfy is definitely one saw that really needs a vacuum. Rob, you were right when you said that Klaus throws some dust. I was cutting some 290 x 45 merbau the other day and the spray was impressive!! My only shop vac is an old nilfisk. It has been reliable, but alas has no auto start/stop feature. Also a bit cumbersome when transporting.

Cheers

Pete

[baltic]

Hi Rob,

Interested in your "mitre clamp system" does it work well?
What make is it and what are the dimension specs for the clamping system?

Thanks,
Gary

[Brice Burrell]

So why does Festool want to know that you adjusted the laser on the Kapex??? I can think of no other reason to put stickers on the adjustment screws. Am I missing something?

I can't wait for this saw to make it's way to the States.

[LGS]

Hi Brice,

I suspect that it is a requirement for Health and Safety. Even Class 1 lasers are, in theory, capable of tissue damage and of course, there's always someone from the shallow end of the gene pool who will look straight into the light source. My guess is that breaking the seal means that you have read and understood the warnings and therefore accept liability for any damge resulting from your actions.
(My unofficial title at Harvard was Laser Jock.:) )
You've gotta admit, the Kapex looks damn sexy!

Regards,

Rob

[LGS]

Hi Gary,

The clamping system is one I bought from Carbatec.

http://www.carbatec.com.au/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=60_8210

They're called "Framer's Band CLamps" and are A$27.00 each. I use them often for boxes with mitred corners amd also for frames. They work really well and are very robust. I have a metal clam (sorry, that should be clamp, but clam is good!)as well, but rarely use it because it's a PITA to set up and doesn't have the flexibility that the nylon ones do. i.e. when clamping, you can draw the clamp closed then reset the screw and futher tighten the clamp resonably easily, particularly if you use two clamps. They clamp 915mm square or equivalent rectangle or round shape.

Hope this helps,

Regards,

Rob

[LGS]

These are two of the corner mitres on the hall table I'm working on. Bit rough aren't they?:2tsup: The first is an "as is" shot, the second has been "fixed" to try and show the joint a bit better.

Regards,

Rob

[martrix]

alright, I'm bored tonight so I'm gonna pick.:q

53931

[LGS]

Hi Martrix.
1. There is a slight variation along the edge of the pine. I used a Band saw instead of the TS75 to cut the width and was overzealous and so there is slight fill which results from the sanding and sealing process.
2. There is most likely a slight variation in the width ofthe end v side frame panel. (Neither are Klaus' fault):B :doh:
However, if the flaws are this easy to spot, I think I'll either give the table away to someone or trash it and start again.:C

Sunday 08:00PM. Had another look at the edge of the table, what looks like a mismatch is actually a small chip, which must have occured during dry fit up. The joint is perfect.

Regards,

Rob

[LGS]

Hi all,

[quote]
I have reservations about cutting thin slices from small stock and actually prefer to use the Makita LS1214 for this, but it may be that I am just not used to the saw layout.
There is provision for an operator to attach wooden fences to the metal ones already there. I think this would be a good idea particularly when cutting dadoes and using the "special cutting position".
If I think of more I'll post them.

OK then, this is one mean saw. Sounds so quiet and gentle.
I tried taking a thin piece of the edge of board yesterday ad got the worst kickback I have ever had. The power behind the Kapex is enormous. This was done at Speed Mark 4. I do these cuts all the time on the LS1214 and never a problem. I think that unless you are cutting 4x4 squares of red gum or another suitably dense and heavy timber, Speed mark 3, or possibly even 2 will give you what you need.
I can't see it having any problems with any task you throw its way.
Regards,

Rob

[AndrewPatrol]

Gotta couple of q's about the Kapex,
Is it rugged enough to put in the back of car and have other tools on top or alongside and not have bits break off? My old Hitachi is. Wondering about upgrading. That lack of weight ( thinness of castings) is a bit of a worry.
Does it have a carry handle?
Can you flop it over to 45 degrees with out having to wind that handle all the way?
Quite franky some jazzy red lazers ( that'll probably pack up) arent enough to make me rush out, and that name!!!! no wonder you guys are naming yours.
Does it have a dust bag? or do you have to use a vacuum. Sure a bag is little use, buts its something
That handle thingo at the front looks a bit delicate.

[thesupervisor]

i have mine in the back of my ute next to all my tools i have put a blanket over it to keep it warm
the laser is useless in sunlight so im trying not to get used to it but it is great for skirting
i have fitted a bag off my old rexon it is better than no bag it will spew wood dust everywhere the cut is the best ive ever seen
there are no handles but is designed to be carried under the carrage as seen in the catologue,the cord is long and has a loop at rear to keep it neat
the mirtre setter is very sturdy though the clear plastic witth the marker can be hard to see
any other qs just ask

[AndrewPatrol]

S'visor,
thanks for reply, what about when you want to lay head over for bevel, can you go strait to 45 or do you have wind handle.

[thesupervisor]

no you can just flip the clip up at the top rear it has a cam screw twist to desired setting and you can push it with your hand but to go all the way you need to adj the clips on the rear of fence hard to describe with out looking at machine

[LGS]

I guess what S'visor is saying is that there is a locking lever over the knob with which to set 0-+45,+45/-45 and +47/-47 degrees. Once you release this lock by lifting it up, you san move the saw about freehand, but moving it with the handle is a piece of cake and takes seconds. For high angle cuts (45 degree bevel, you need to move the fences right out and away from the saw. Much the same as you need to take the fences off on the Mak LS1214.
The beast does through dust like a snow maker throws ice. Be very wary of this in confined spaces. I got some in the slots that the fences run along and it locked the fence completely. I had to use a hammer to get it out then use some WD40 to lubricate the runner.. Frustrating and definitely an annoyance.
Be careful also to check that its cutting what it says it is. After six days of operation, I cut a 45/15 degree compound mitre and found that the horizontal cut was 0.5 degrees out and the vertical about 2 degrees out. It takes a bit of effort to find out where the issue is when you introduce a 3rd dimension.
That said, this and the laser movement Pete spoke about and simple but annoying things. It's best to remember that this is a sophisticated tool and I'm not all that sure that it isn't better to have these minor irritations rather than something that is so rigidly packed during shipment, that it could break. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that nothing else comes close to this saw. The precision you get with rebate cutting is brilliant.
Incidentally, the little 1mW red Diode lasers are similar to the supermarket scanners and they have a lifetime in the thousands of hours.

Regards,

Rob

[markcoutinho]

Hi Andrew,
Check out this site: it has some 12 video's of the different possibilities of the Kapex. Great site!
http://www.idealtools.com.au/category55_1.htm

[LGS]

Hi all,
Being as I like to talk to myself and enjoy the sound of screaming silence, I'm offering anyone living in, or visiting Melbourne and who is a member of the forums the chance to play with any of the following in my work shop. Bring yer own pieces if you like.
1. Kapex SCMS
2. TS75 Plunge saw and rail system.
3. C12 Drill.
4. RO150 FEQ ROS
5. CT22 Vac system.
6. RTS400 finishing sander
7. Trion barrel grip jigsaw.
8. OF2000 router(s) and Leigh FMT and D4R jigs.
9 Domino. (including a few things it can do that are intrigueing)
Since I work from home, have cameras as security and use capacitors attached to the doors and window frames of the W/S after hours,:o :o :cool: I feel safe making this offer.

Hope someone likes this idea.:)

Regards

Lesser Greater Spotted (LGS) AKA Rob, AKA the Ogre

P.S. Please use PM or email to reply. If rnough people are keen, maybe we could run a brainstorming and assorted uses workshop here, then submit a wish list to TT Aus.

[arose62]

When I first saw Kapex threads, I thought it was the sort of Cap-Ex I hear about at work:

CAPital EXpenditure - where managers and accountants fight about spending or not spending huge chunks of money.

How much is one of these beasts??

Cheers,
Andrew

[LGS]

Andrew,

Three goats, a brace of chickens and a wife or two ought to do it.

Serously though, A$1750 will get the saw, Just under A$4000 will get the all singing all dancing version with a table, measuring rails etc.

LGS

[rmartens]

Rob I clicked the link on your thread I like the little boxes and the tables.
That redgum looks wonderfull. I like multi colour with through dovetail they look good.
The inserts look good too.

[rmartens]

I like your gear lgs and testament to your good work.
I reside in W.A so cannot take on your offer. For years I was using a ozito sliding mitre saw which was slightly inaccurrate and was sick of always planing and sanding to get the material correct. I got 2 routers a makita and festool 1400 and prefer using the festool.
Using both routers for through dovetail joints on a 24inch leighs jig. I go to say when I did my first through dovetail using the festool, the base plate is smaller than the makita 3612br and my fingers (leighs jig) were too far apart for the festool and got stuck between fingers making it difficult to run smooth.
So on my next project i put the fingers closer together eliminating this problem. Its live and learn I guess but good to share these issues.

[tijy]

:no: hi all am new to here so hi anyway I am a big big festool fan but the kapex is not what I expected in two months since the product launch in uk I have had 10 of them with the same problem. Yes 10 ok so basicly this is what happens i get big box open big box shiny new toy out of box dribble a bit first then read manual (yes am that sad) after i read manual and finish of toilet roll lol I start to test machine sit on festool multi table check plug in vac and power check turn on lasers( pants get a bit tighter wow) get piece of wood and cut 90 deg check with trusty square perfect in both planes great great i think. thats it for the excitment notice lasers don't line up so fiddle for a good while all ok but nasty holes now in new Kapex oh well. going for a compound cut now cool i think. Hello whats this grinding noise as it crunches to the left never mind its new i think 45 degs check try action pull it forward to here a clang as it hits the fence. spend 20mins trying to fins allan key to fit remove fence so have plywood in hand 300mm wide perfect edges am going for the long cut now droole again at ease of cut trusty square to hand whats this i think check square its perfect check cut again runs out by 2mm must be a mistake try again i think festool dont make inperfect things 10 cuts later and by now have machined and thicknessed a perfect piece of hardwood to make sure and still thing running out go back to dealer he confussed festool in uk odd bunch don't know after many call agree to give me another guess what it does the same as do the next 8. festool uk say sorry had some problemswith two batches next one be fine guess again....... nope same if not worse bearing in mind this cost £760 here its not that good really which is a shame festool told me and i quote " its as good as it gets" and will refund me the money for saw and blades so of to check out the makita now meant to be really good and £160.00 cheaper thanks

[LGS]

Welcome Tijy,
You show tremendous patience! By now I would have had Herr Doktor Festool himself on the case. What happens if you try taking a sample of timber to another seller and cut it in front of them on one of their Kapexes (?Kapexii, Kapexata). If 10 units have failed, someone in Germany needs to know. That would be my next step I think, since, as you so correctlry point out this is most unFestoolian. I'd also give the dealer you are using the flick for anything other than prepacked screws!!

Regards,

Rob

[tijy]

funny that did just that yesterday before I wrote the post sent 5 emails to directors of festool and a long text message via mobile phone to uk sales manager and guess what a flurry of action this morning and apology after apology shame it had to go on so long though but that seems the way of the world these days. Anyhow a full refund is on offer inclusive of all stuff bought related to the kapex blades etc and compensation yes you read right compensation for probably the worlds tightest firm lol. Wish carlsberg made tool (hope you get the pun lol) £200 for time wasted so happier now still love festool and I am sure that in 6 months or so they will solve glitches in the machine well hope so

[LGS]

Excellent outcome, except for the fact that the Kapex has left a bad taste. But with the Carlsberg Elephants, you'll have forgotten soon enough.:D:D

All the best,

Rob

[nt900]

...I have had 10 of them with the same problem. Yes 10...

tijy,

Wow - what you say is amazing. Did you buy 10 KAPEX in one go and they all had issues, or did you keep going back to the dealer 10 times repeatedly returning and receiving a replacement KAPEX?

[tijy]

no had 10 replacement now money back lol

[LGS]

Any news on your meeting with Festool?

Rob

[tijy]

hello again yes mate was a very succesful day on a dreary monday morning met two german guys one was in control of all worldwide sales and the other chap was the chief engineer for festool. Very nice people bit intense but german lol and perfect english. So chatted for a good while pointed out what I considered to be the faults and the listened and took notes and pictures of everything. Then came out the precision measuring equipment made in Japan by the way i noted. first the lasers he explained the tolerances to me then measured them on my machine a small silence ensued then a slight look of embaresement it was out by quite a bit. once checked and altered he told me in the factory they should never need adjusting. next the compound cut 1.5mm ish over 260mm he wasn't happy at all by now so few other things like scrapping noises and although he convinced me that the was no engineering problem with this noise i explained that most people would prob upgrade to this machine from dewalt makita etc which dont make scraping noises so psycologicaly it may put you of a bit.

So after a bit he pulled out a brand new machine freshly made in germany for me we tested it with a trench cut half way through i stopped he looked at me i looked at the saw he looked down to find the lasers all over the place he walked off rang germany and halted all production of the kapex until he could fix this problem he also reckons that the main fence is out of alighnment by a fraction which is causing errors on compound cutting any way 5 hours later i get the use of a full ct70 bench saw for a very long demo (£2000 cost) my money back and the german guy as nice as he is has a large large headache did feel sorry for him. The table saw is brilliant by the way although very pricy

[underused]

Thanks for giving us the fact mate!
Looks like I'll be keeping the old Makita for now...:rolleyes:

[Lignum]

he looked at me i looked at the saw he looked down to find the lasers all over the place he walked off rang germany and halted all production of the kapex until he could fix this problem

tijy, didnt you used to be a script writer for Benny Hill:wink:

[alanm]

Very disappointing for the price and magazine write-ups. Not sure many of the media reviewers have ever used this saw.
It cuts well, glides well, adjusts nicely and is adequate as a simple compound mitre saw, but I expected a lot more from Festool.

It has a very nice depth stop but cannot trench properly as the blade movement doesn't go back far enough. The slides are too short. You need a 45mm deep auxilliary fence if you want constant depth trenches. This also means the hold-down clamp is useless as it only clamps close to the fence. Ultimately you can only properly trench about 200mm material.

The substantial high sturdy fences can't be set close to the blade if you want to cut wide stock, as the rubber chip deflector jams on the fence.

There is no dust bag. Must use a vac (Note: No sexy flexi Festool hose provided). Agree with others that this is a dusty bugger.

No tool provided to adjust lasers. If you don't have a 2.5 hex screw-driver, bad luck. This should have been supplied given the price. I was lucky that the laser alignments are close enough for now, both lines on outside of kerf.

Side supports are an expensive optional extra, even though they are provided on most other machines, including the ceapies.

Using investigation and playing achieves more than reading the five page manual that is weak on info in quite a few areas.


Not worth $1600. They could have at least thrown a spare blades in.
If it was less than a $1000, I would have still noticed the above faults, but I wouldn't have been so critical and disappointed.

[LGS]

Hi Alan,
I hear ya. But...
I like the ability to cut out to 300mm with a 10" blade, thus avoiding extra space for a 12" rig.
I like getting smooth accurate mitres in difficult timber without any blade flex. On a Makita LS1214, I had endless problems in cutting picture frames to a fine edge with no flex until I invested in a Blue Mac 60 tooth blade. Dewalt and Irwin 80 and 100 tooth blades respectively were useless. And, I haven't used a fine cut blade yet!
I like having full confidence in cutting bevels from outer edge to inner or vice versa. No stuff ups.
I like the way I can just lift it and put it somewhere without ruining my back.

I've had issues, which have been addressed when I asked. And I suspect there will be field "fixes" as reports feed in to Festool central.
Festool themselves are saying it's their first foray into the area of complex Mitre saws and are learning fast. It is expensive, but I think you'll see your money work when the saw has some upgrades done.

Regards,

Rob

[LGS]

Someone asked about blade flex recently, though I think it was a beat up.
I thought this may demonstrate how well the blade cuts.
This is a 200mmx25mm piece of Sydney Blue Gum cut at the slowest speed available o the Kapex (speed mark #1).
Pic #2 shows a clean, straight cut. No bow.
I though BG would be a fairly representative timber to use. If you want me to cut some 85x85 Red Gum, I'm happy to do that.

Regards,

Rob

[underused]

Hi Rob,

Lucky man, owning all those festools:2tsup:
I notice You have a Makita SCMS in the background of those pics, two nice saw together, even luckier:wink:
surely the Mak could make the same straight cut, with a good blade on it? if not there must be a problem with it.
Im not comparing the two ( I dont have both to compare:) )
cheers!

[LGS]

There's no doubt the Mak can do it, but it doesn't have the shadow over it's head. It is one way cool SCMS, that. The point though, is that the 10" blade at very slow speed did not flex. The Mak with a 60 tooth blade is a joy, but put 80+ on it and you can have problems.

Regards,

Rob.

P.S. I am indeed a lucky sod!:)

[Pete F]

What size is the arbor on th Kapex? Does Festool use anything weird to tie you into using their own blades?

[nt900]

30mm arbor on the KAPEX. Although I have not tried putting a non-Festool blade on the KAPEX, there is nothing weird that I can make out that would restrict you to Festool blades. But I will have another look when I get back to the workshop.

[LGS]

Finding another blade with a 30mm arbor is the issue. Everyone else uses 25mm. Bahco do make them though.

[Pete F]

Groan, I thought as much. I've never owned any Festool of my own but the little I've used has been great. They do seem to go "non-standard" with things though, it's difficult enough to quickly restock with the larger paper sizes on my Metabo sander, never mind finding the Festool stuff with the blow hole in the middle!

[LGS]

Pete,

At a pinch you could buy pads without any holes and make your own. In addition, there are now a number of suppliers making pads with the holes in the right place for the Festools. I have actually used Bosch pads with some success.:oo:

Regards,

Rob

[Pete F]

Oh yeah, that's possible in this instance, but it was more the principle I was getting at. It's great gear but Festool sometimes tend to tie consumables to them one way or the other and it's hardly stuff you'll find down at the local Bunnings. Maybe it's my imagination and they're no better or worse than any other manufacturer (it's just that it's not as widely distributed). In the case of the sander, yeah I can see a definite advantage in the centre hole, but a non-standard arbor size? Hmmm. It won't be a deal breaker for me but bit of a shame really.

[LGS]

Hi Pete,
There's an old saying in retailing. "You sell one dog, but a life time of dog food". It is very standard for manufacturers to create a system whereby you buy a piece of equipment, then have to buy their products to make it work. It's up to devious minds like us to beat the system.:):D:rolleyes:

Regards,

Rob

[VEK TOOLS]

The 30mm bore blades are very easy we keep the Freud pro blades instock all the time-you can always put a reducer in the bigger bores. The only thing when you do use an after market blade make sure you readjust your laser settings to match the new kerf(highly not recomended we found out on the demo day from International Festool technical demonstrator Bernhard Schwartz from Germany)

Cheers,

Team VEK TOOLS
www.vektools.com.au (http://www.vektools.com.au)

[thesupervisor]

the blades are a different size i got a bosh multi cut with 30mm hole for ali cutting but it is 4 mm smaller overall than the original kapex one wich retail at $269 each not for 10 you only get one so dont cut any nails

[VEK TOOLS]

the blades are a different size i got a bosh multi cut with 30mm hole for ali cutting but it is 4 mm smaller overall than the original kapex one wich retail at $269 each not for 10 you only get one so dont cut any nails

oops i forgot to say that they are a 260mm blade, which are available in aftermarket-makita & hitachis 10" slide compound saws take that size as well....the most important thing i forgot to mention above was the festool original blades are a negative rake(meaning the teeth are slanting back)

So i guess after all the specs you need to find the perfect aftermarket blade you are better off sticking to the original & the best:doh:,beeing a Festool Shop we do have the full blade range instock including the corion cutting blade if anyone gets stuck.

Cheers:2tsup:,


Team VEK TOOLS
www.vektools.com.au (http://www.vektools.com.au)

[Pusser]

The Woodworker Oct 2007 has an article on blades for the Festool TS55 saw. Both Freud and Trend made blades which suited, were cheaper and in case of the Freud highly recommended. Don't know how this translates to Kapex but it may be of interest.

Pusser

[VEK TOOLS]

The Woodworker Oct 2007 has an article on blades for the Festool TS55 saw. Both Freud and Trend made blades which suited, were cheaper and in case of the Freud highly recommended. Don't know how this translates to Kapex but it may be of interest.

Pusser

We have been selling the freud pro blades for the last 2years & have had not one complaint about them. They are the only blade i would put on a festool tool apart from the festool blades. In the demos at the awisa wood & machinery shows they are demonstrated cutting thru timber with nails. The blades come with a lifetime warranty on the blank


http://www.freudtooling.co.uk/files/big_photos/bladeanatomy.jpg
(http://www.freudtooling.co.uk/catalog1/1859/1860/)
we carry about 70% of the range but haven't had a chance to fully load it on the website, if you want a full catalogue email me & i will send you out a catalogue

Cheers:2tsup:,


Team VEK TOOLS
www.vektools.com.au (http://www.vektools.com.au/)

[Groggy]

Freud are good blades but I'd hesitate before calling them 'great' blades. The ones I have do the job quite well, but I would expect that, given the price I paid for them.

[John Saxton]

:2tsup:This thread has been enlightening to say the least ...not to mention other threads on the Kapex which has also been handy to follow the progression and experiences of this nice piece of machinery.

Sooooooooo having had the opportunity to check it out againnnn @ the Melbourne WW show as well as the Perth WW show have today bitten the bullet and put an order in for one.

Soon to grace a spot amidst all the packaged gear ready for the big mooooove baby but not before 'Ol Johnno has a play with it:D:D:D!!

Cheers:)

[Lignum]

Freud are good blades but I'd hesitate before calling them 'great' blades.

Spot on. Freud are the next step up from the good budget/mid priced ones, but far from great.

The Festool blades for the TS75 are "great" but if you want to use an exceptionally great blade, then go for an AKE... Bliss:wink:

[Pete F]

So how long are we looking at for the waiting period?

[Carpenter]

Cooee Lignum,
where do you get your AKE blades from?

[Groggy]

The Festool blades for the TS75 are "great" but if you want to use an exceptionally great blade, then go for an AKE... Bliss:wink:Even an AKE blade can miss the mark.

If we are talking "great blades", you really need to begin matching machines, speeds, materials, feed rates, extraction etc before an ideal solution is found. There are 'sweet spots' for every blade, but generally the better the blade the wider the sweet spot.

In case you are wondering why I mention you need to match machines, putting an AKE blade on a machine with a wobbly arbour won't help at all. The better the machine, smoothness, mass etc, the more likely you will get a return on a really good blade.

A bit like putting racing tyres on a Fiat 900. :wink:

I know I am telling you to suck eggs Terry, but this post is just an additional comment on your remarks for others to read.

EDIT: I should have mentioned the comments are in relation to blades in general and not necessarily SCMS/CMS blades.

[nt900]

All quality products cost decent money, so assuming you want quality you are looking at the Festool blades for your KAPEX or an alternative of probably similar price. If you want a general purpose building site 'nail cutter' on your KAPEX I am sure there are lots out there to choose and economical prices.

My question of the forum members is this: How are you finding the cut quality of the Festool standard blade that comes with your KAPEX?

Personally I find our workshop blade doing a fantastic job :):). Very smooth finish to the cut on both hard and softwood. A small bit of tear out at the rear of the cut, but that is more to do with the KAPEX design I expect.

For me, I will be keeping 'Standard' blade on the KAPEX until I feel it has dulled. Then I may begin to use the Festool Fine Tooth Blade blade. Alternatively I might put the fine tooth blade onto our saw for a week or so just for discovery sake.

I have not experienced any sign of blade flex as others have spoken about.

[LGS]

Hi Anthony,
I concur with all you have said and have not seen any evidence of flex. I refer you to my picture post of the piece of Blue Gum cut using the standard blade at 1400RPM (speed mark #1.) I have also cut mitres in 19mm timber(Maple, Red Cedar, Red Gum, p-p-p-p-pine:oo: and a number of other timbers) with no sign of flexing either, even at low speeds. The minor tear out is not a real issue to me. I find a quick brush with the DTS400 fixes it just fine, though it would be nice if it wasn't there. This is one reason I'm thinking of putting a faux fence permanantly in front of the one supplied.

Regards,

Rob

[nt900]

An interesting thing just happened. I was with a guy who has trouble seeing certain colours. Red lasers are a particular problem. So he could hardly make out the KAPEX laser. So I grabbed a pair of red laser glasses from a laser level kit and it made it much easier for him to see, although still not as good as most of us would naturally see red lasers.

But I discovered for me that it made a huge difference. It was visible without the glasses, but with - it just popped! Our workshop is very bright with a massive amount of sunlight coming from the skylights, and the KAPEX laser is visible 99% of the time. But the laser glasses made it stand out and so easily spotted even in todays conditions (bright sunny Melbourne spring day).

Something to note: laser glasses are not safety glasses in two respects: they don't protect your eyes from the laser beam (so still obey the usual safety rules around lasers), not are they rated to protect your eyes from flying objects.

Hey Rob - what you got against p-p-p-p-pine anyway? :)

[LGS]

For those interested, I've written a review of the Kapex and it is currently available at this site:

http://www.burrellcustomcarpentry.com/subpage35.html

It may be available soon at two Australian sites as well.

Regards,

Rob

[Pete F]

Really good review!

How long is the present waiting period before this saw will be available in Australia?

[Groggy]

How long is the present waiting period before this saw will be available in Australia?The saw is available for sale now, and has been for a while.

Good review! :2tsup:

[Ron Dunn]

Do people get misty-eyed just because of the name Festool?

I've read the reviews on this saw, and I can't help but think that any other saw with its short-comings would have been shredded by its reviewers.

Can't cut right through a board? Laser out of alignment? Just doesn't seem right to me.

[Big Shed]

Do people get misty-eyed just because of the name Festool?

I've read the reviews on this saw, and I can't help but think that any other saw with its short-comings would have been shredded by its reviewers.

Can't cut right through a board? Laser out of alignment? Just doesn't seem right to me.

Ron, do you realise you just swore in church?:rolleyes:

[John Saxton]

For those interested, I've written a review of the Kapex and it is currently available at this site:

http://www.burrellcustomcarpentry.com/subpage35.html

It may be available soon at two Australian sites as well.

Regards,

Rob

ROB ,Thanks for the review, it endorses what I have seen at 2 WW shows and reinforces my view on this SCMS.

Cheers :)

[nt900]

Do people get misty-eyed just because of the name Festool?

I've read the reviews on this saw, and I can't help but think that any other saw with its short-comings would have been shredded by its reviewers.

Can't cut right through a board? Laser out of alignment? Just doesn't seem right to me.

Hi Ron - I don't think you are on the right track there about misty-eyed users and reviews.

I also don't think the KAPEX has any more 'shortcomings' than every other tool we buy and use, except for the tool that I design myself in my mind to my specific requirements without commercial constraints.

A guy (or reviewer) will pick up and tool, identify the positives and weaknesses as they see it. But the next guy may find a different set of positives and weaknesses, maybe contradicting the previous guy. No body will see things the same. The tool designers will never make strides forward without making changes, and some changes will resonate with users, some changes will frustrate or baffle the users (and the above two guys).

A tool like the KAPEX has some things different to other saws. The designers have tried in their usual Festool fashion to make a robust and accurate that performs the task at hand most effectively. Also in their usual Festool fashion, they have endevoured to make strides forward. In doing this they will have made differences between their saw and others. Some users work with these differences and embrace them, some will be baffled by some design aspects, others may not like it at all preferring something more familiar. Some may even see the differences as shortcomings.

All this does not detract from the fact that the KAPEX is a great saw producing quality workmanship. Also, the fact the KAPEX is designed to last and be well supported by a company that may do things different, but with a priority towards their customers getting excellent results, effectiveness and efficiencies over the long term.

Please read this last two paragraphs knowing it is not a statement make by the manufacturer, but my own observations, experiences and interpretations as a Festool customer and dealer.

Back to Rob's and others reviews. I think many reviewers and users of Festool are more critical of Festool than they may be of other brands. Festool users have high expectations, and what may be coming out in reviews (KAPEX and other Festools) are judgments made with higher than normal expectations in mind. When reviewing Festool products, most reviews and users tend to skip right over the basics other brand tools get hammered on, basic build quality, failing parts and performance. I know I am more critical because of my high expectations of Festool products. I discuss these with my customers all the time and sometimes realise I may be doing the tool an injustice by being to fanatical. Then I think about some of the other tools (non-Festool) I have owned that just plain failed and broke.

[Pete F]

KAPEX availability is going to be low right through to the first half of 2008. This doesn't mean there will be no KAPEX until then, but there definitely won't be enough for everyone who wants one.
If you want a KAPEX in the near future, it is a good idea to place a deposit and get on the delivery priority list.


This is from one of the sponsor's sites, another retailer I went to visit said they were difficult to get hold of.

[nt900]

This is from one of the sponsor's sites, another retailer I went to visit said they were difficult to get hold of.

This is where I struggle between trying to provide useful information and not wanting to abuse the privilege of forum participation with posts of a commercial nature. So please, if anyone thinks I step out of line and get to self-promoting please PM me with your feedback. If all is okay and appreciated, I will provide info in the fairest possible manner.

The KAPEX is making it's way into the country slowly but surely. I expect most dealers are getting their back-orders fulfilled every now and again. This protracted availability is expected to continue for some time.

For anyone interested in a KAPEX, just jump onto the phone or email your preferred Festool dealer and express interest. I am sure they can accommodate you by putting you on a waiting list. Or potentially they may have just received new stock and one in ready to go.

Quantities for Australia may be limited, but at least we are getting them, unlike a few other countries who are still waiting to see their first.

[Pete F]

Excellent, thanks Anthony. I'll ring around mid week and hopefully get to have a play (or better :U) Thursday. Just didn't think there was much point in getting excited about this saw if it was a 6 month wait for it to arrive.

Pete

[Eli]

First of all, I found that the waiting time for the saw was drastically reduced after I had actually bought one :U. I only say this half as a smart assed comment. The truth is you'll probably spend less time waiting for it than you do deciding to buy it, if you're anything like me.

I have been very pleased with the performance of the Kapex. I had not previously owned a sliding crosscut saw, only a regular double bevel saw. It was a Dewalt. I liked it. I like this saw as well. I won't bag brands that don't do a good job, but will say, you can see the extra money in the results, and after a while, it's nice to be able to take the good results for granted.

I try not to get all teary eyed when I use it, and the dust collection does help with that. I love the laser, but it does tend to make one lazy. It isn't (before all is said and done) that damn hard to drop the blade to the wood and take a look to see whether it's anywhere near the line.

I would tend to agree that I am about twice as critical of Festools as 'regular' tools. The cleverness of some of the features leads you to a place where you get slightly off if they haven't included one tiny thing that you manage to think of that would make your happiness complete. IOW, yes they do create a spoiled petulant child out of an otherwise pretty rational man (I'm talking about me).

I think the blade it comes with is pretty damn good. I'm not sure there's a way I could measure any performance that's better than what I'm getting now, so, who cares? A bit quieter might be nice, but I'm wearing ear protection already anyway.

[tijy]

hello chaps !!
just been reading the posts and apologies from me if there has been a slight delay in Kapex deliveries as I had a few problems with mine and after two months a couple of germans popped over to chat with me. They were baffled by the errors and halted the production of the Kapex worldwide until they could resolve the problem so sorry again if I have slowed down supply at all. As for myself I have returned the Kapex back to festool as I believe that this new tool isin't quite there yet and some of the teething problems are still there however I am reviewing this position in 6 months as I believe that by then the tool would have been modified. As for blades yes there the best you can buy which is true of all festool blades infact the Kapex blade not only has a plasma cut expansion groove as is common in most blades but also has a very sexy swirly plasma groove and this groove is purley to reduce sound whilst cutting ( it removes the sing out the blade) ergo making you believe the cut sounds sweeter than may be. one thought not sure how long the negative rake angle of this blade will reduce blade life

[Pusser]

hello chaps !!
.. As for blades yes there the best you can buy which is true of all festool blades ..

A statement of faith rather than fact and not borne out by UK Woodworker magazine. The standard blade was well thought of but the Panther blade wasn't. Sorry cannot help myself will not but into church again.

Pusser

[Carpenter]

The standard blade was well thought of but the Panther blade wasn't.

Pusser

Wow, thats wierd because I have Panther blades for my CS70 & ATF55 plunge saw & they're just an animal blade for rapidly breaking down timber. You have to bear in mind these are dedicated ripping blades designed for fast cutting, not a fine finish. Having said that, they do give a pretty good cut considering how agressive they are. I have no complaints about Festool blades, they're good.

[Bryan1982]

so is there or isnt there a problam with the kapex???????

from what tijy has said there is a problam and if all festool products are made in germany and they are all out of the same factory why has no one else experience the same problam withg the kapex??????? in AUS or the US or any where???????
if there is a problam with the saw why no recall on it????????

[Eli]

I had a few problems with mine and after two months a couple of germans popped over to chat with me. They were baffled by the errors and halted the production of the Kapex worldwide until they could resolve the problem so sorry again if I have slowed down supply at all.


Did you have a problem with anything but the laser not being accurate to .001 of a millimeter? You said "a few problems". Have you signed some sort of non-disclosure agreement? If not, stop being so offhand and just tell everyone what your issues were, and we can decide how serious the problems are for ourselves. Was your decision to return ten machines based on some kind of scientific measurement or just dissatisfaction?

I'm honestly curious what could have made you return this saw at all, let alone ten times. I think I'm qualified to ask, as your entire saga has me standing silently in the shed, staring at my Kapex, wondering what you could have possibly disliked about it. Personally, if I had a problem with a product I'd just get my money back after twice returning it, and having said that, I wouldn't consider getting rid of it now that I have it.

What other chopsaw have you replaced the Kapex with that does meet your standards? Were the standards your K saws didn't meet set by Festool for themselves?

Since your Festool corporate connections are better than mine, maybe you could ask somebody that you dealt with to clear up the mystery here on the forum. It seems nobody can decide how relevant your unusual ten Kapex experience is to their buying decision. In the meantime, thanks for the quality watchdogging.

[tijy]

hi again well yes I am fussy is true but come on this is Festool and is the most expensive tool on the market. so when they make a tool I expect them to do what it says on the box. In the Uk this saw is over £200 pounds more than the makita ls a good benchmark. the problems that were recognised by the head of engineering for Festool during our meeting were

1 the laser were not out by .001 they were out by 1.5mm and after adjustment and some light travel they would run out again not only on the kerf but out of parrallel ( also there are 2 ranges on the laser .06 and .02 on the fuzzy edge both founf to be out )

2 the bevel cut was up to 2.1 mm out over 280mm this perhaps due to miss alighnment of the rear fence in relation to the main axis of the machine

3 undue stiffness of the bevel action to usually the left and excessive sound of scrapping on some but not all

4 the blade lock not working at all on one of the saws

5 lock pins shearing on early models (these have been replaced since )

6 colision with the machine and its fence guards so you need to remove the grub screw and remove them completely for bevel cuts just bad design or manufacture

dont get me wrong i love festool I have bought 15 tools in the last 12 months and upgraded almost completely i even ordered in advance the Kapex 2 months before its release and love the look and feel and weight also the ideas behind it but i refuse to just be happy with a tool because of a name and think value for money is more important and at this moment in the UK i believe that this saw is not any better than the makita just more expensive. My makita doesnt look as good its a bit heavier and its a right hander but gives me a good job but as i have said before i really want a kapex that works and has addressed the problems and would love to own one in 6 months if this has been done the german guys were very good and you can tell they really want this to be the best and took these issues seriously. I am now using a cs70 table saw which is superb

[Bryan1982]

the cut its self was out or the laser??????? line was out

if the saw does not cut square or to an angle then thats sht but if the laser is out not so bigger problam

[nt900]

1 the laser were not out by .001 they were out by 1.5mm and after adjustment and some light travel they would run out again not only on the kerf but out of parrallel ( also there are 2 ranges on the laser .06 and .02 on the fuzzy edge both founf to be out )

2 the bevel cut was up to 2.1 mm out over 280mm this perhaps due to miss alighnment of the rear fence in relation to the main axis of the machine

3 undue stiffness of the bevel action to usually the left and excessive sound of scrapping on some but not all

4 the blade lock not working at all on one of the saws

5 lock pins shearing on early models (these have been replaced since )

6 colision with the machine and its fence guards so you need to remove the grub screw and remove them completely for bevel cuts just bad design or manufacture

Hi tijy,

I would have through it would not be hard to get a saw out of the box that has points 1 through 5 resolved or non-existent. I believe I am using a KAPEX with none of these issues.

But point 6 does bug me every now and again. When something like this happens, I try and sick back ponder if there's some Festool designer's logic not immediately obvious to me that I should be following... but on this point I am still pondering.

[tijy]

hi many of the issues that i talked over with the head of engineering from festool they put down to minor problems they had with the uk setting not sure why also the packaging which they are re developing please dont get me wrong i love this tool but its just not right in the uk yet which makes me very jelous of you guys in aus lol any way hope to have re designed uk version sooner than later. Festool have asked me to right a review in the cs 70 table which I am happy to do anything of help as always would be welcome

[LGS]

Hi Tijy,
Are you saying you don't have to remove the fence to cut bevels on the Makita? I do on the LS1214, so it was no surprise to me that I had to remove them on the Kapex.
I think you may have picked the wrong place to claim responsibility for shutting down Kapex production and I, like Anthony, find most of the problems you had to be fairly petty.

Regards,

Rob

[LGS]

Just to let you know, the Kapex review is available at the Ideal tools site now (Thanks Anthony).

Regards,

Rob

[LGS]

For those in Australia,
Most who own a Kapex probably already know this. I prefer to be able to remove the fences for routine operation, but in view of the issue regarding being unable to cut a 45 degree bevel, I've just set the saw up to do a left 45 bevel and had no problem with the saw clearing the fence at all when it is set against the locking screw. On the right bevel however, it is necessary to remove the fence.
Also, if you look at my post regarding flexing, you'll notice I used a 200mm wide blue gum board, which when checked for squareness after the cut is dead square. If there was going to be an issue with skewness of the cut at 250mm (2.5mm over 250mm) I would have expected to see some evidence of this on a 200mm board.
Looks like we got the good ones.:)

Regards,

Rob

[tijy]

sorry you find them petty but as I have said before and will say once more I have had the head of engineering for festool who make the things and they were so unhappy that they stopped production not me the right hand fence on the makita does infact need to be removed the left one swivels away glad you have the good ones. hope we can get the same quality as you soon

[Groggy]

I don't want to argue the significance of the issues as that would be subjective and vary between individuals. These comments are mine, and how I think I would view them after spending around $1800 for the saw.

1 the laser were not out by .001 they were out by 1.5mm and after adjustment and some light travel they would run out again not only on the kerf but out of parrallel ( also there are 2 ranges on the laser .06 and .02 on the fuzzy edge both founf to be out )

I'd have them take it back if I couldn't adjust it in under 5 minutes, even then I'd be disappointed.

2 the bevel cut was up to 2.1 mm out over 280mm this perhaps due to miss alighnment of the rear fence in relation to the main axis of the machine

Again, take it back. For the dollars spent I want it usable out of the box.

3 undue stiffness of the bevel action to usually the left and excessive sound of scrapping on some but not all

Hmmm. I don't know. Depends on how it felt. If it was grinding and hard to position, take it back. If it just felt 'firm' from manufacture, and would likely loosen with use, then I'd keep it and keep an eye on it.

4 the blade lock not working at all on one of the saws

Take it back.

5 lock pins shearing on early models (these have been replaced since )

Take it back.

6 colision with the machine and its fence guards so you need to remove the grub screw and remove them completely for bevel cuts just bad design or manufacture

As LGS and nt900 have said, this happens with other saws and there may be a good reason for it. I am not sure this would bother me too much. I guess it depends on how you use the saw.


Overall I would expect a premium saw in that price range to have no problems at all, that is, after all, what Festool are famous for. I suspect Festool may have had problems with a specific batch of tools and that is why the engineers came to England. If the problem was everywhere they could have looked at the problem in Germany. Hopefully, that means the specific problems mentioned are only related to one batch and haven't spread to Oz.

[nt900]

What Groddy said! And I guess tijy did take them back. All is well in the world. :)

Although I would not have had the patience of trying 10 units. I agree with Eli - about 2 is my limit.

WRT point 6. I just realised my previous mitre saw only tilted to one side as the motor would prevent a tilt to both sides. This is why I was surprised the KAPEX hit the fence on one of the two tilting sides.

"My other say never did this" I thought to my self. Of course not, it was only a one sided bevel saw. This only occurs to me now.

I am not sure how many other saws that tilt 45 degrees both left and right can do so without having to adjust the fence.

[Eli]

As regards point three, there are three settings for the bevel lock dial at the back of the machine. Set to bevel to the left (0-45), there is no grinding that way. Set to bevel the other (interestingly, I think the side that bevels 0-47 is to the right, the side that requires the fence be totally removed), there is no grinding either. Set to bevel to the left, but actually beveled to the right, there was a metal on metal feeling. I wouldn't go so far to say grinding, but I guess if you wanted to find fault, grinding would be the word you'd use. This might be the locking mechanism itself rubbing against something. Set correctly, I haven't found the grinding to occur. Can you other guys check this one?

[jonga]

....

6 colision with the machine and its fence guards so you need to remove the grub screw and remove them completely for bevel cuts just bad design or manufacture

...

no need to remove the grub screw, just screw them in a little further so that the fences no longer hit them. it doesn't take half as long as taking them out and that way you won't loose them for when you decide later on that you don't want the fences to come off!

cheers

jonga

[Pete F]

Although I would not have had the patience of trying 10 units. I agree with Eli - about 2 is my limit.


I once went through this with some dewalt planers, soles dreadfully out of parallel. On the 3rd I gave up and went back to a Makita. Turns out the whole container load were duds, believed to be caused by the hot temperatures in the container during shipping warping the plastic

[Eli]

no need to remove the grub screw, just screw them in a little further so that the fences no longer hit them. it doesn't take half as long as taking them out and that way you won't loose them for when you decide later on that you don't want the fences to come off!

cheers

jonga

I think grub screw might be a bit of a misnomer, mine have heads on them and can't be sunk all the way. But it could be an idea to replace the stock ones with real grub screws so they don't have to be removed, but sunk all the way as you say...

[nt900]

no need to remove the grub screw, just screw them in a little further so that the fences no longer hit them. it doesn't take half as long as taking them out and that way you won't loose them for when you decide later on that you don't want the fences to come off!

cheers

jonga

I hate to say it, but I checked the KAPEX user manual. Shame on me I should be punished!. And it tells us to "Turn the screw (11.3) as far as possible into the threaded hole (downwards)."

Amazing little thing this book, I should read it more often. An observation - the KAPEX manual is a lot better than other Festool manuals. A4 format, 7 pages of diagrams, 6 pages of text (English). Festool manuals get a lot of flack, this one seems to be much better. Not that many of us read them anyway :D.

[Groggy]

I hate to say it, but I checked the KAPEX user manual.
:fireworks: MAJOR CODE VIOLATION :fireworks:

[Eli]

Guess I'll be checking that again:doh:

[nt900]

Oops, I've done it again. Looked at the user manual.

Most people probably don't need to adjust their KAPEX from the factory setting, but it is worth checking to be sure. Below is a copy of the laser checking and adjustment instructions, both images and text. It might be worth running through the checking process once to be familiar with it, then if you ever have doubts, you will already know what to look for. Not that the checking process it hard... just saw a wide board through the middle and study the laser projection closely for misalignment.