Is nothing sacred???

[TTIT]

Cleaning up the house this morning and discovered the damned lychtids have attacked one of my turnings :~ I can live with the mongrels getting into the woodpile out the back but not stuff I've already finished :C.
I thought maybe they were in there all along but I turned this piece of Bauhinia over 2 years ago and I swear there wasn't a sign of them last weekend.
Question is, what have you got to do to stop it happening again???
I already cleared the plugs from both holes (arrow pointing to second pile of dust) and filled them with poison but now I'm watching over the rest of the collection like a clucky chook :B I can't go on like this :C:no::C Anyone had this happen to them???

[hughie]

Vern,

Nope, but I can see what a pain in the proverbial it would be.

[wheelinround]

makes me wonder if the house isn't the main stay and they were just after some variety

[ptc]

You will have to move to Tassy.

[ticklingmedusa]

I had to look it up to know what you were talking about
We have wood eating scourges here too.
My condolences,
tm

http://www.cardinalproproducts.com/images/wood-i4.gif
Lyctids, or powderpost beetle
COMMON NAME: Lyctid or powderpost beetle
SCIENTIFIC NAME: Various
CLASS/ORDER/FAMILY: Insecta/Coleoptera/Lyctidae
METAMORPHOSIS: Complete
INTRODUCTION. Lyctids are commonly known as (true) powderpost beetles because their larvae produce a very fine, powderlike frass in their galleries (vs. bostrichids/false powderpost beetles and anobiids, whose larvae produce coarser frass which also contains fine wood fragments or pellets respectively). They are worldwide in distribution, with about 11 species occurring in the United States.
RECOGNITION. Depending on the species, adults about 1/32-1/4” (1-7 mm) long. Body elongate, narrow, flattened, almost parallel-sided; head pronotum, and elytra (wing covers) about equal in width; pronotum somewhat wider at front; head and often mandibles visible when viewed from above. Color reddish brown to black. Antennae with abrupt 2-segmented club. Elytra (wing covers) often with rows of hairs (setae). First abdominal segment ventrally much longer than other segments.
Depending on the species, mature larvae up to about ¼” (6 mm) long. Color nearly white. Body C-shaped but with enlarged thorax. Antennae short, 4-segmented. Spiracle of 8<SUP>th</SUP> (last) abdominal segment 3 times larger than other abdominal spiracles. Legs 3-segmented, ending with a long claw. However, 1<SUP>st</SUP> instar larva straight-bodied, white, and bears a pair of small spines at rear end.
BIOLOGY. Female lyctids lay their eggs (15-50) in exposed wood pores, cracks, or crevices. Eggs are never deposited in/on waxed, polished, painted, or varnished surfaces. The larvae tunnel only in the sapwood and usually tunnel with the wood grain. As they bore, the larvae loosely pack their tunnels with very fine powderlike dust (like talcum powder or flour). After several molts requiring 2-9 months, the mature larva bores to near the surface and constructs a pupal chamber and pupates. When the adult emerges, it bores straight to the wood’s surface and exits/emerges. Indoors, adults usually emerge in late winter or early spring and with little feeding, mate. Under very favorable conditions, developmental time (egg to adult) usually requires 9-12 months, but may be as short as 3-4 months or as long as 2.5-4 or more years. Although some lyctids are strong fliers, most tend to lay eggs in the wood from which they emerged. Since lyctid larvae cannot digest cellulose, they feed only on the cell contents which is primarily starch, but also sugar and protein.

[Jstegall]

Using the microwave comes to mind...not sure how much further damage it might cause to your turning though. I use the defrost setting on mine but keep checking it for too much heat.

[reeves]

Bastards, thats really over staying the welcome isnt it, and with all the wood you must have stashed around the place it just downright rude to come into the house and chomp on your finished turnings. Maybe they have a particular liking for Bauhinia i dunno Vern.

Your only option is to wipe em out as best you can, die little varmints die..!

Bit interesting they made it through the finish on that vase,or did they get in via that void u have arrowed.. maybe hard laquer would keep em out better, maybe its just a one off and the bauhinia was soft enough for em to get in, maybe the drought or dry has driven them in search of greener pastures, your lounge room...

anyways this kind of premeditated attack doesnt bode well for your finsished turning collection. I found a sizable borer in a dry chunk of Paulownia a while back, firizzled the little sucker on the spot...

The only thing I can think of Vern is diligence and pesticide, maybe spray some borax or surface spray around the rim of lounge, house and around the legs of the tables or shelf where you display your finsihed stuff...find out what eats lyctids and keep them as pets...capture the rogue borers and shame them to disocurage others....stay up late, hiding in the dark with a borer squasher at hand and wait.................chompy, chomp.......splat.....!!!!

[TTIT]

Using the microwave comes to mind...not sure how much further damage it might cause to your turning though. I use the defrost setting on mine but keep checking it for too much heat.Did cross my mind but there is a bit of brass in-fill around the piece and thought it might get a bit too 'entertaining' if I nuked it!:o


Bastards, thats really over staying the welcome isnt it, and with all the wood you must have stashed around the place it just downright rude to come into the house and chomp on your finished turnings. Maybe they have a particular liking for Bauhinia i dunno Vern.

Your only option is to wipe em out as best you can, die little varmints die..!

Bit interesting they made it through the finish on that vase,or did they get in via that void u have arrowed.. maybe hard laquer would keep em out better, maybe its just a one off and the bauhinia was soft enough for em to get in, maybe the drought or dry has driven them in search of greener pastures, your lounge room...

anyways this kind of premeditated attack doesnt bode well for your finsished turning collection. I found a sizable borer in a dry chunk of Paulownia a while back, firizzled the little sucker on the spot...

The only thing I can think of Vern is diligence and pesticide, maybe spray some borax or surface spray around the rim of lounge, house and around the legs of the tables or shelf where you display your finsihed stuff...find out what eats lyctids and keep them as pets...capture the rogue borers and shame them to disocurage others....stay up late, hiding in the dark with a borer squasher at hand and wait.................chompy, chomp.......splat.....!!!!Thats what I don't get! There would be about 5 or 6 ton of timber outside and in the garage but the buggers decide to come inside and make themselves at home!:o Many's the time I've watched them crawling around the shed on the way to their next meal - tis unspeakable the fate that befalls them before they get there though:U
The arrow actually points to the second pile of dust - twas a double whammy attack!:~ So much for the theory that they won't touch finished timber - 6 or 7 coats of DO on that piece. :confuzzled: A goodly amount of my log stash is already sprayed with a Borax/insecticide concoction but this has motivated me to give it all a top up now - spring cleaning like!:;
Lychtid eating pets - now there's an idea! I'll eat the grubs myself (witchettys) but I draw the line at beatles and these suckers have shells like macadamias.:C Must be something that eats them though????

[reeves]

Lychtid eating pets - now there's an idea! I'll eat the grubs myself (witchettys) but I draw the line at beatles and these suckers have shells like macadamias.:C Must be something that eats them though????

yeah maybe a lizard of some kind, blue tongues or small goannas, get a guard lizard in the lounge and starve it so it jumps at the first beetle it sees...some meat eating or bugeating birds would eat them, maybe kookaburras

maybe cos u have boraxed most of yr wood collection they were perturbed by that and sussed out yr turning collection in the lounge, its wrong to think bugs are stupid, they are cunning, they are impervious, they have simple but effective instincts that obviously led them straight to yr goodwood vase, theres more of them than us and they have survived for millions of years, just a good thing we mammals are much bigger!

good luck with this Vern

[OGYT]

Cheers, Vern.
I think it may not be powderpost beetles, but the other variety in tm's post. The larva looks like a cross between the Michelin Man and a Grub worm... head's sorta wide, tail's pointed... can really spatter a face shield. :(
I also think they were in there when you turned the piece. I've had 'em come to the fore in some of my pieces before. I just take a little lacquer thinner in an insulin syringe, and give the hole a shot. Takes care of them quickly. Turn the piece up till the hole's on top. Put enough in the hole that it'll flow down to them. :D
When I'm turning, if I see fresh sign, I drench the piece in lacquer thinner. When I do, I never see any sign of 'em again. The thinner evaporates pretty quickly.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Did cross my mind but there is a bit of brass in-fill around the piece and thought it might get a bit too 'entertaining' if I nuked it!:o

I've always been told it's safe to nuke non-ferrous metals... but if that's so, why do the instructions on TV Dinners say "remove foil"?

I think you made a wise decision. Another method I've been told about is putting it in an airtight container in a warm spot for a couple of days, along with a small bowl containing acetone, thinners, or [gasp] CA! I'm told the fumes don't affect the finish, although personally I suspect it'd be best to shelve for a few days before day-to-day handling.

[hughie]

I think you made a wise decision. Another method I've been told about is putting it in an airtight container in a warm spot for a couple of days, along with a small bowl containing acetone, thinners, or [gasp] CA!


I suspect tho' might get some solvent bloom on the surface of the turning.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Agreed. Not much solvent is used... only enough to generate fumes, not fog. I probably should've said a "small cap full." Even so, I think I'd be wary about using it with finished items.

I've never tried it myself - not even on raw timber - and hopefully I'll never have the need.

(Now that I've said that, what's the betting the next time I go to my wood-stash I'll find small piles of dust... Bloody Murphy. :rolleyes:)

[TTIT]

.....The larva looks like a cross between the Michelin Man and a Grub worm... head's sorta wide, tail's pointed... can really spatter a face shield. :(...................I also think they were in there when you turned the piece............. There are umpteen varieties of 'em over here Al, the bigger ones known as witchetty grubs which are a big part of the aborigine diet (and occasionally some of my mates!). Pretty sure these holes were created by the beetle going in rather than one coming out though - holes plugged proud with shavings - don't think the bludgers would bother closing the door behind them heading out :;


.........Another method I've been told about is putting it in an airtight container in a warm spot for a couple of days, along with a small bowl containing acetone, thinners, or [gasp] CA! I'm told the fumes don't affect the finish, although personally I suspect it'd be best to shelve for a few days before day-to-day handling.Found a better method to get rid of 'em. The daughter thought it would be a great incense storage vessel so it's on it's way to Townsville :U


......... (Now that I've said that, what's the betting the next time I go to my wood-stash I'll find small piles of dust... Bloody Murphy. :rolleyes:)Didn't Kennett have a plan to get rid of all the grubs in Vic!!!!!:;

[rsser]

... yep, could well Skew.

In Tassie a while ago I was sourcing some yummy blanks from an experienced supplier, who went into his 'superannuation' shed to find the little borers getting into priceless Huon.

Not sposed to be possible .. but it was :C

... maybe the price of peace of mind is eternal vigilance.

In my 'bank' it's usually the wattles :~

[davo453]

Microwave bug killing is interesting.

I always thought any metal in the microwave was a no no, but I caught a program on the TV once were a lady was making jam and doing a final boil to seal jars with metal lids in the microwave.

Her theory was that if you have 2 jars or more in there at one time it was OK. With one jar they short out on to the metal case but with two they don't

I've never tried it though but did see it happen on TV.

Cheers

Dave

[joe greiner]

I doubt the business about safety of nuking non-ferrous metals. Nuking a CD (the free crap that finds its way through the mail) can be quite "entertaining." Best done with a spare microwave, just in case.

I read someplace that termites can hold their breath for about 15 minutes. So, for some timber from a tree I felled and slabbed, I made a tube from paper grocery bags with the bottoms removed from all but the last one, and stapled the seams. I put the timber in the tube, and tied the free end around the tailpipe of my truck; then let the truck idle for about an hour. Seems to have worked, and not a great cost for fuel.

A similar stunt I've heard about is to use the lawn mower instead, with a pipe to the timber storage tent. Minimize the free volume of the tent for best utilization of the carbon monoxide from the mower exhaust. Haven't tried this one yet. I'd suspect that all obnoxious critters breath air, and are vulnerable to CO, but not quite sure.

Joe

[Frank&Earnest]

The issue with metal in the microwave is not ferrous/non ferrous, it is thin/thick.

The radiation causes sparks on very thin metals (gold rims on china, aluminium foil etc) but solid metal is fine. The instructions on my new one say that you must put a teaspoon in the cup when you boil a cup of water, to prevent the extremely rare instance when the radiation causes the water to heat above boiling point and then "explode' in your face when you pull the cup out.

[TTIT]

.............. A similar stunt I've heard about is to use the lawn mower instead, with a pipe to the timber storage tent. Minimize the free volume of the tent for best utilization of the carbon monoxide from the mower exhaust. Haven't tried this one yet. I'd suspect that all obnoxious critters breath air, and are vulnerable to CO, but not quite sure.

JoeJoe you're a bloody genius mate!!! :2tsup:All my outdoor stash is under plastic/tarps so it will be dead easy to smoke 'em out (with a bit of luck the neighbours cat might be napping in there too!) Hmmm - might even do the garage stash while I'm at it :;:U
The pics are of the 2 newest stashes. The blue tarps are what they use to cover the grain dumps here - very tuff stuff - even impregnated with chilli to stop the cocky's chewin' through it.

[reeves]

jeez nice stash, your just teasing us aint ya ?

smoking the critters sounds like a good idea but not all bugs breath as in they have lungs

I noticed the recent additions of myall and yarran on yr site, nice looking dark acacia, think i might try and hatch a plan to trade you some more rose sheoak for some dark acacias....droooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool!

[Sebastiaan56]

Vern,

CO2 is used to keep grain free of pests in Asia. Under a tarp, etc as described. Once the level is up it is just sealed till needed. I know CSIRO did a bunch or work on specific concentration, try Dept of Entymology. Not much use for your finished pieces tho.. unless you get the whole lot out and fumigate regularly. How are your floorbaords?

[mobjack68]

Haven't read all of the posts....what if you put it in the freezer???

[Alastair]

F&E has the most of it regarding the MW.

In addition, metals reflect MW's, with 2 effects:

Anything shielded by the metal doesn't heat. This is the reason for wrapping the ends of chicken drumsticks in ally foil, to protect them from overcooking.

If there is a large enough area, it can seriously disrupt the MW "pattern" in the oven, and may create local 'hot spots' which might cause damage.

[OGYT]

Vern, Check this Website: http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5086.html
Mind you, this is Texas A&M University. Scroll down to the Red Ash Borer and Cottonwood Borer. Those are the scamps I have to deal with most.
If the holes in your piece were larger than 1/16", they are not likely to be the Ambrosia Beetle.
I've got a bloody worm that's nigh as big as my little finger in a small jar of Alcohol... the alkie turned him black, but he was cream colored to start with... came out of a chunk of Chinaberry.

[TTIT]

Vern, Check this Website: http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5086.html
Mind you, this is Texas A&M University. Scroll down to the Red Ash Borer and Cottonwood Borer. Those are the scamps I have to deal with most.
If the holes in your piece were larger than 1/16", they are not likely to be the Ambrosia Beetle.
I've got a bloody worm that's nigh as big as my little finger in a small jar of Alcohol... the alkie turned him black, but he was cream colored to start with... came out of a chunk of Chinaberry.The most likely culprit would be cousins of the one in this old thread (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=31468&highlight=lychtid)Al :~ There is another one I see a lot of that is similar to your Deodar weevil in shape but considerably bigger. Whatever they are, it's war now - and this time I'll take no prisoners :;

[Caveman]

Hey Vern - nice hoard you've got there:D.

You mention the tarps being impregnated with chili - out of interest - when storing maize/grain for long periods, the locals here crush chilies and mix with ash and then mix in with the grain - this keeps all sorts of weevils and the like away. Grain is simply winnowed to remove chili and ash dust before using.

Am keen to try this on my woodpile and see if it deters the buggers from feasting. Certainly ash is a deterent for most insects round here - the chook run gets a regular dusting to keep the army ants away.

[Mike Jefferys]

I understand lyctids go for the starch in sap wood which is wholly or partly why wood with sapwood still on is not legal for sale or use in the construction and buiding trades. They are endemic on the mainland (maybe not Tassie?) and choose hardwoods only because they have pores to lay eggs in. The bugs choose species with precisely the right size pore (I have had silky oak sapwood riddled with them) and worst of all they can apparently revisit seasonally although from my experience I reckon they prefer part seasoned wood. They must be tough buggers because presumably they were inside the piece while it was turned. Every other bit of wildlife I've seen come out of a turned blank has the good manners to be a bit unsteady on its legs.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I knew I shoulda kept my trap shut. :~

I've a 6' x 2"(ish) limb of silky oak I use as a hiking staff. Been meaning to carve some wood spirits into it, but haven't got a round tuit.

This arvo as I walked past where it's normally leaning, I noticed little piles of dust on the floor underneath it... :o

[powderpost]

I sold a largish bowl from raintree with some sapwood on it. The bowl was finished with several coats of lacquer all over. About two months later the bowl re-appeared in the arms of a fairly upset customer. I had in the past cooked the job in a microwave oven and had to re-polish. This time I chose to put it in the freezer for three days, on advise from an entomologist. It must have worked, because that was eight years ago.
The explanation given to me was that the problem came from eggs deposited in the pores, not an attack by adult beetles. The beetle lays the egg in the pores, (the reason that sealing the timber prevents attack), the egg hatches a grub. The grub feeds and develops into an adult beetle and emerges, leaving behind a nice little pile of frass. The frass plugging the hole was simply left behind.
This is why hollow vessels with sapwood should be sealed internally. With narrow necked hollow forms, I pour some polyurethane (estapol) in, roll the form around to caot the surface and drain the surplus out.
Hope this is of some help.
Jim

[TTIT]

...............Certainly ash is a deterent for most insects round here - the chook run gets a regular dusting to keep the army ants away.I've never heard of that one Andy - very interesting - noted for future reference.:;


I understand lyctids go for the starch in sap wood ...............So all the literature says but I can show you several logs where they have followed the heartwood from one end to the other - literally! The 3 holes circled on the little sandalwood log pictured ran for about 5' through this tree.


I knew I shoulda kept my trap shut. :~

I've a 6' x 2"(ish) limb of silky oak I use as a hiking staff. Been meaning to carve some wood spirits into it, but haven't got a round tuit.

This arvo as I walked past where it's normally leaning, I noticed little piles of dust on the floor underneath it... :oThats the little wood spirits makin' the dust Skew:;:U

.......The explanation given to me was that the problem came from eggs deposited in the pores, not an attack by adult beetles. The beetle lays the egg in the pores, (the reason that sealing the timber prevents attack), the egg hatches a grub. The grub feeds and develops into an adult beetle and emerges, leaving behind a nice little pile of frass. The frass plugging the hole was simply left behind.
This is why hollow vessels with sapwood should be sealed internally. With narrow necked hollow forms, I pour some polyurethane (estapol) in, roll the form around to caot the surface and drain the surplus out.As always, you're a wealth of knowledge Jim :2tsup:, but what doesn't fit is that they popped out of heartwood, or at least the sapwood is indistinct on Bauhinia so it 'should' be heartwood. The inside was actually sealed as you described - maybe thats why they emerged through the Danished outside - lesser of 2 evils perhaps.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Thats the little wood spirits makin' the dust Skew:;:U

If they persist in leaving piles of tinder around, I'll soon raise their spirits... with a good bonfire. They'd already be hot-footing it if it wasn't such a good hiking stick! :~


Hmmm... I wonder if it's the just the "right time of year" for certain bugs to emerge? That'd explain why my spirits came out so soon after yours. I hope so, as I've stacks of timber all over the place (half my work-benches consist of a couple of planks across log piles I couldn't be bothered moving :-) and it'll be a serious headache if I need to go on full-time sawdust alert.

Termites aren't much of a problem around me, so I've been slack as far as "preventative measures" are concerned. Really slack. :(

[rsser]

Local wattle (unknown sp.) seems to be the grub magnet in my piles.

[Added; and yes, it was drying but the grubs were in the heartwood.]

[Mike Jefferys]

You may have another bug there? The lyctid attacks I've seen have a much smaller exit hole and a very characteristic pyramid of dust under the exit hole like its been carefully poured out of a salt shaker with one hole.
I once had about 50 red mallee burls riddled with them so they also like some burls.
They exited on the rough face BTW so I couldn't have sealed them if I had wanted to.
It's likely that because it's springtime it is a seasonal emergence/hatching thing as well.

[rsser]

Yeah, the holes are much bigger than the pinholes I'm used to calling borer attack.

Ouch! All that wasted burl ... sigh :(

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Ouch! All that wasted burl ... sigh :(

That's when you take up pen turning. Burl is never to be wasted. :wink:

[OGYT]

Say, Caveman, you said, "Certainly ash is a deterent for most insects round here - the chook run gets a regular dusting to keep the army ants away."

Is this 'ash' you're speakin' of just ash from a fire... or Ash Tree shavin's ... or somethin' else?...
I may need to try it...<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Mike Jefferys]

I'd be surprised if any bug in Australia hasn't figured out a way to live with a bit of ash given that half the country burns annually.

[Caveman]

Say, Caveman, you said, "Certainly ash is a deterent for most insects round here - the chook run gets a regular dusting to keep the army ants away."

Is this 'ash' you're speakin' of just ash from a fire... or Ash Tree shavin's ... or somethin' else?...
I may need to try it...<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Al - good ol ash from the fireplace. We have these nasty critters that attack and devour anything in their path - they come out in their hundred's of thousands especially in the cooler weather when the rains are around. We call them safari (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_ant) ants and spreading a trail of ash around the house/chicken run etc keeps them away.