Hollowing

[Fredo]

Hello everyone,

My recently ordered woodcut pro-forme hollowing tool arrived this week and I had some spare time to take it for a spin. I must say I'm very impressed. I only ordered the powerhead and made my own shaft to use in my homemade hollowing tool (As I recently changed jobs I should have more time to turn but less money to spend on tools, so I make my own whenever possible).

Short road test: The tool appears to be well made and is very sharp straight out of the box. After a short learning curve adjusting the cutter guide (depth of cut), I found with the cutter on centre or slightly above the tool cut very smoothly and was easy to control with little or no chatter and amazingly no clogging. I should say the wood I used to make the two hollow vases (see pics) was London Plane and is user friendly. This tool is the smoothest, most controllable and best hollowing tool I have ever used. The first hollow vessel was just a quick hit to see how it worked. The second was a more serious effort. Both were drilled down the centre to allow easy access. Once hogged out controllable smooth cuts were easy. To finish, light cuts were taken with a round scraper to smooth the inside. With limited use so far I'm very happy with this tool (time will tell).

Does anyone else have this tool? How do you find it works?

Pic 1 - the cutter, Pic 2 - complete hollowing rig, Pic 3 - the scraper, Pic 4 - small vase 110mm high, Pic 5 - large vase 220mm high

oh yeah... critique if you like

Fredo

[TTIT]

Yep:2tsup: - I use one Fredo and has to be the ultimate on end grain:2tsup:. When I first got it I couldn't put it down - still haven't finished all the forms I roughed out:B. Not that the finish it leaves is that rough - most other cutters leave it a lot worse.
IMHO, it still leaves something to be desired on most side grain jobs though, as do the others that use guarded cutters (I don't know what they are supposed to be called :shrug: ) I think it's because you are constantly changing from cutting across the grain to cutting along the grain which, theoretically, would require vastly different guard settings.
Still well worth the pennies spent - fantastic tool!:;

Why haven't I seen your hollowing rig before???? ---or have I seen it and forgotten!!?? Either way it looks like a good set up! Does it work as good as it looks?

[hughie]

Yep :2tsup:...me too.

I did the same as you and bought the head only. I have since made two shafts one straight and the other goose necked.

Works like a treat and its one of my favourites, although as Vern mentioned the side grain can be more of a challenge. I find it will clog some on green timber if I am not careful....bull at a gate stuff :U

The last bit of Plane tree I had was a good bit darker, ex N.Z. must grow different over there.Still its great to turn...as you say user friendly.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Why haven't I seen your hollowing rig before???? ---or have I seen it and forgotten!!??

Good question! :hmm:

[joe greiner]

Nice looking cutter. Do you grind the guard as you grind the cutter, to maintain limited bite? Looks like a good safety feature.

About the rig: There's been some recent noise about a new version of the elbo tool that doesn't use the tailstock for anchorage. Is this it? Or did you just happen to invent yours at the same time?

Joe

[rsser]

Yep, I'm a Proforme-ist too ;-}

I have the swan neck and the slightly canted shafts; they fit into my Munro hollower handle. They can do a fast deep cut on the upswing corner of the J shape or a gentle smoothing cut on the long edge.

Couple of things: if you go in very hard you can bend down the brass cap (easily bent back however); also tighten up your grub screws regularly or at least loctite the one that holds the head to your shaft. They're prone to wandering.

If making my own shaft I'd also add about 10cm to the std length.

[Some tips on using the Proforme from Lyn Mangiamelli are attached].

Joe, you just diamond hone the edge for sharpening, and it keeps an edge well. The cap is adjusted in and out by means of an eccentric set screw.

And you may be thinking about the Vicmarc hollowing tool support which needs no tailstock; uses a cam clamp at the tail like a banjo with the tool shaft resting on the tool rest. [Added: Looks v. like Fredo's, or does his look like theirs?]

[Fredo]

TTIT, Hughie, Skew and Joe - My hollowing rig is a home made cross between the elbotool and the vicmarc tool. The main three part tool is easy to make but the rotating upright is very complicated to homebrew (I did not invent this system, I tried to adapt several ideas to make it work for me and save dollars). Overall this tool works very well. The smooth movement in all directions yet rigid support allows very controlled cuts. I have tried several cutter combinations, HSS bits ground to varying shapes and the munro cutter. The pro-forme cutter is the best so far. The laser guide helps a lot also. If you have the dollars to spend on a rig like this, in my opinion, buy the vicmarc setup. Like all vicmarc equipment it is genuine quality.

Joe - The woodcut pro-frome tool cutter guard is adjustable using a mini cam screw and a lock bolt (my tool came from Carroll's Woodcraft Suppliers, just under a hundred dollars delivered - thanks Jim).

I have posted pics in one of F&E's threads but here they are again.

eta: rsser - I've printed off a copy, great information as always. Good to know you're happy with your tool also. Thanks Ern.

Fredo

[TTIT]

....... If you have the dollars to spend on a rig like this, in my opinion, buy the vicmarc setup. Like all vicmarc equipment it is genuine quality. ................Thanks for the extra pics Fredo - much appreciated :2tsup:. Although I reckon I can afford the Vicmarc, it'll be more fun making my own as you've done. I had been planning on a captured 'D' type but yours is far more compact and better looking to boot. Providing it works just as well, I reckon it's gotta be the way to go.:U

Ern - Thanks for the Proforme tips - ya don't get a whole lot of anything when you buy the tip on it's own - or from the website for that matter :shrug:

[rsser]

Got a Vicmarc on order so will report back in due course.

Vern, no you don't get much info do you. Beats me why they miss the obvious marketing pull of instructions combined with a decent vid on the website.

[Woodturnerjosh]

Hi Fredo,
I love the rig! I was recently looking at the Vicmarc system wondering if it would work all that well and obviously that sort of system does. As I am now thinking of making one of those myself I was wondering if you could tell me what size is the square bar you used and if the joints have bearings or some sort of bush/washer to keep them moving smoothly?
I was also thinking of using a MT2 with a draw bar (is that what you call a threaded rod that holds the MT in place) to look it into the tailstock, what do you think? Disadvantage or just downright dangerous?
Thanks in advance
Josh:2tsup:

[joe greiner]

Josh, the elbo tool (current version) uses the tailstock for anchorage, but they use a clamp on the extended quill. I think a MT could allow rotation within the quill, even if anchored by a drawbar - not good.

Here's a couple of their links:

http://www.elbotool.com/

http://www.elbotool.com/installation.html (shows the clamp).

Joe

[Woodturnerjosh]

Thanks for the link Joe.
Fair point on the rotation thing.
Back to the drawing board
Josh

[hughie]

Fredo,

Thanks for the pics. Just one question...or maybe two :U The anchor point I take it there is rotational movement capability? If so a few more details of it would be greatfully appreciated.



The pro-forme cutter is the best so far. The laser guide helps a lot also. If you have the dollars to spend on a rig like this, in my opinion, buy the vicmarc setup. Like all vicmarc equipment it is genuine quality.




yeah but as Vern says



Although I reckon I can afford the Vicmarc, it'll be more fun making my own as you've done. I had been planning on a captured 'D' type but yours is far more compact and


Either way your set up is a nice bit of work, well done. :2tsup:

[Fredo]

Josh & Vern - The specs for my rig are as follows (a total guestamation at the time I made it) the square bar is an inch and a quarter, the round bar is also an inch and a quarter outside diameter with five eighths inside diameter. The two long bars are each twelve inches in length the short square bar is five and a half inches long with four and a half inches of round bar welded on. Half inch pivot holes are drilled in the square bar and good quality half inch bolts were used. Nylock nuts are also used for easy adjustment. On my rig between the square bars I have a three piece needle roller (Torrington) thrust bearing from a Holden Trimatic auto transmission to allow for smooth roation (used bearings should be readily available from most any transmission shop). Care must be taken when drilling the bar if all pivot holes are not square to each other the cutter will move off centre when the tool is moved forwards or backwards. There is no reason you could not vary any of these specs to suit yourself.

Personally I don't like the morse taper idea and would stick with the elbotool style rear support setup, should be much safer :)

Hughie - Yes, the upright support does rotate, I have modified a twin bearing hub (simular to a trailer wheel bearing hub and axle) to suit, I don't know what it's off, but it is what I had.

Fredo

[TTIT]

Thanks for the extra detail Fredo - much appreciated:2tsup:. I think I'll stick to your method of mounting the backend rather than the elbotool system - particularly with the short bed of the stubby.
Gotta ask - what parts do you hold to guide it in use and have you ever snagged your pinkies in between the bars like a scissor action. Murphy watches over me in the shed so I'm trying to stay one step ahead if the bugga!!!:B

[Fredo]

Vern - No blood so far.... Right hand on the square bar just behind laser support. Left hand on tool rest, two fingers over the shaft, left hand to act as pivot point.To steer, push, pull and guide with right hand as you would to control a scraper. Because you do not have to counter the rotational force of the tool, smooth flowing cuts are easier to achieve. It would not affect the tool in any way to make the front section longer to keep fingers away from the pivot point and would probably add more control anyway.

Fredo

[rsser]

Some pics:

1st photo, bottom: Proforme head fitted to a mild steel shaft. Just drill out for the head spigot, grind a flat on the rod, and tap for a grub or cap screw.

Above that, an Oland tool inspired by one of Skew's efforts.

In the other pic, the black shaft is an original Proforme, the slightly canted version; plus below that a prototype handle/shaft to take the Woodcut threaded 13mm bowl gouge tip (not yet drilled and tapped).

[WOODbTURNER]

Ern,
What dia. is the head spigot?
Cheers
Jeff

[rsser]

8mm Jeff.

btw, it has a couple of flats on it for the grub screw to bear down on (just noticed the 2nd one on the bottom, doh.)

Jim Carroll may be able to supply the head alone.

[Woodturnerjosh]

Thanks for the extra info Fredo!
Now I will have to figure a way to make the upright support.
Cheers
Josh

[Fredo]

Ern - what diameter is the standard pro-forme shaft and do you get chatter? Is the shaft you made larger in diameter than standard? Why did you change?

Fredo

[rsser]

- 5/8"; mine's the same to swap into the Munro hollower handle
- haven't yet test driven it; will depend on the amount of overhang all things equal; dunno if mild steel will be better or worse for this than HSS
- have made it longer than the Woodcut by around 75mm