3hp ??

[haosiliu235]

I did woodwork for about 1/2 yrs (not frequently) I did it with out any machines or much power tools just japanese dovetail saw, chisel, plane, a drill and a cheap $30 orbit sander. Now I am planing to get more into woodwork and want to buy a table saw, but after reading things in the forums about 3hp and about how it doesn't work or not as well in the normal power supply?? plz help me with this

[Yawally]

G'day H.S. do you actually mean 3 phase power? Because I don't see how Horse Power will affect your choice. But 3phase power will because of the wiring etc to you machines and shed.:)

[Rookie]

Not sure what the original comments were that led to that opinion, but 3HP works well with a normal power supply. 3HP table saws will be rated at 15amps, or should be, so it requires a dedicated 15 amp power socket off the distribution board, so get a sparky in for that.

Many people will tell you that most 15amp table saws will run off a 10 amp power point. That is true. You need to either replace the 15 amp plug that comes with the saw to a 10 amp lug, or rig up an extension cord with a 15 amp socket on the end. I don't know why I am telling you that because my best advice would be DON'T PUSH YOUR LUCK.

They are rated at 15 amps for a reason. If they are being used for lighter timber, short cuts etc, in other words, not working hard, they will draw much less than rated. If they are working hard, which they're designed to do, they will pull much more, so if all he ducks aren't in a row right back through the power chain (cable, circuit breakers etc), it's fire brigade time.

That was a long answer to a short question. 3 HP, no problem, but it will require a sparky to put in a 15 amp power outlet. Don't push your luck running it off 10 for any length of time.

[haosiliu235]

so... I should get a electrician to install an 15 amp outlet for my table saw.

cheers

[chrisp]

if all he ducks aren't in a row right back through the power chain (cable, circuit breakers etc), it's fire brigade time.

I wouldn't argue that it would be best to have a 15A GPO installed for a table saw, but making claims about "fire brigade time" is a bit excessive.

Both 10A and 15A circuits are wired with 2.5mm2 cable, the major difference is the number of GPOs allowed on the circuit. You can certainly run a 3hp motor from a 10A GPO but you may experience circuit-breaker tripping if there is any other significant load on the same circuit.

[kman-oz]

I think we need to be clearer about what you're talking about her H.S. Technically three horse power doesn't require a 15 Amp power outlet, and a three phase power device isn't going to operate in a single phase power system typical of domestic distribution.

I think you're talking about 3-phase power, typically it's not available in domestic situations.

[Marc]

I agree with the answers above.
You are going to start setting up your workshop, I am sure you will not stop at a table saw. So, since the electrician will charge you the same for 2.5mm wire 4mm or 10mm with the only difference in the cost of materials, I would try to think a bit ahead.
Have a look at this Cable calculator, be generous and get one or two sections of cable over what you need so you do the job once.
Correction you never do the job once, since you eventually will want 3phase, and a bigger shed etc :2tsup:
http://jaw.iinet.net.au/stuff/cablecalc.html

[Rookie]

I wouldn't argue that it would be best to have a 15A GPO installed for a table saw, but making claims about "fire brigade time" is a bit excessive.

Both 10A and 15A circuits are wired with 2.5mm2 cable, the major difference is the number of GPOs allowed on the circuit. You can certainly run a 3hp motor from a 10A GPO but you may experience circuit-breaker tripping if there is any other significant load on the same circuit.

The risk of electrical fire is not "a bit excessive".

I think my statement was "so if all he ducks aren't in a row right back through the power chain (cable, circuit breakers etc)".

Ducks not being in a row in this case means faulty wiring or breakers or some other factor which meant the breakers didn't do their job and something overheated and caught on fire.

I have no idea what environment he is installing his gear into. The power could be shared with the rest of the house and the whole lot is 150 years old. If I give advice, it's sensible advice. It doesn't assume that all his power is squeaky clean and he can see what's running on the rest of the circuit.

To advise anything else is irresponsible.

[Rookie]

so... I should get a electrician to install an 15 amp outlet for my table saw.

cheers

If that's what the spec says, then yes.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

There's a reason the 15A circuits have a larger earth pin than a 10A circuit. :rolleyes:

Also, if you do have a shed fire and the insurance investigator discovers you've been running a 15A machine off a 10A circuit (having filed the earth pin or replaced the plug so it fits) I suspect you'd have a hell of a job getting a pay out.

We had a cooking fire in a caravan and had this problem as the 'van had been modified to use a cheaper 10A extension lead. Insurance weasels. :~

Do it right. Get a 15A circuit wired in. :yes:

[chrisp]

I have no idea what environment he is installing his gear into. The power could be shared with the rest of the house and the whole lot is 150 years old. If I give advice, it's sensible advice. It doesn't assume that all his power is squeaky clean and he can see what's running on the rest of the circuit.

If the wiring or protective device is faulty, then it won't matter very much if it is a10A circuit or a 15A circuit:rolleyes:

I read the original question as "Is it possible to run a 3hp table saw from a 10A GPO" and answer it as such.

[Greg Q]

While you are getting a sparky to run a new circuit, get at least two more done at the same time. You may want to have another machine running at the same time, certainly a dust extractor of 2 hp or larger would be an eventual purchase, and useful compressors are really great, and they are also 15A loads. and additional power points are always a great thing for avoiding a tangle of extension leads.

I'd get heavy conductors and breakers to suit...the breakers are for the protection of the wire only, not the motor. A case could be made for 20A rated circuits...I have two of those and one dedicated 40A special installed for my RPC.

3 HP for table saws is fine, btw. I learned on a 1 1/2 hp saw that did fine most of the time. It's wide thicknessers that are real power hogs, and it makes sense to plan for one of those in the future when you plan your current needs.

Cheers

Greg

[haosiliu235]

so.... i get 2-3 15 amp outlet installed. and also is it a big job installing the outlets (not saying i want to do it myself) and how much does it normally cost because i am renting, and currently using the garage as a the woodwork room.

[patty]

In my days at Tech 1 horsepower equaled 746 watts so 746 x 3 equals 2238 watts divide this by 240 volts to give you the current drag in amps 9.325 amps now this is the info you have given me it is bordering on 10 amps and motors when they are initially started drag much more current than this I would suggest to stick it on a 15 a Supply if this is in the shed where you probably have a fridge as well maybe a compressor and the kettle you might find youself tripping the cicuit breaker or blowing the fuse when these are all running you probably have a mixed circuit running the shed which is usually rated at 20 amps so a call to the local Sparky might be in order!

[Rookie]

I read the original question as "Is it possible to run a 3hp table saw from a 10A GPO" and answer it as such.

I guess that's the difference between telling him what he asked and telling him what he needed to know.

[Marc]

so.... i get 2-3 15 amp outlet installed. and also is it a big job installing the outlets (not saying i want to do it myself) and how much does it normally cost because i am renting, and currently using the garage as a the woodwork room.
Hum...this forum is turning into a competition of who has the longest one.

Anyway. If you are renting and are confident you will stay there for some time, just ask for 3-4 quotes, they are free. I could recommend an electrician in Sydney but not in Melbourne. get your local paper and start ringing up. I paid $80 for a 15amp outlet fitted on the switch board, would probably have to pay $200 or 300 for one 20/30 meters away, $50 for each additional one(?)...variations to the prices would depend from the need for conduits, easy access etc Another additional cost may be the need to change the main cables that go between the one coming down from the pole on the street and your board. If you have 3mm on your main no point having 6mm to your outlet. Also the cost of the cable going to your garage will vary if you choose a 4mm or a 6mm cable. Do you have a welder or will want to have one? What about a reasonable sized compressor that does more than just noise? etc.

[haosiliu235]

what is a welder? so it would probably cost $80 to install an 15amp on the switch board but if it's a bit far away from the garage I'll be charged more... so It would probably cost me $300 to install 1. Don't know if it's worth it... I am really not sure how long i will stay here.
What about a 2hp table saw??? what power does it need??

[weisyboy]

i run a 3hp table saw off a 10amp socket as directed by my elecrition ask the blokes down at the tool shop about it.

i think that you may be getting confused between 3hp (hourse power) and 3ph (phase)

[Marc]

May be your wiring is OK to just replace the 10 amp otulet for a 15 amp and hook it up to the existing wires. Your electrician would be able to tell you. That should cost very little. If you are sure the wires are ok you can do that yourself....however.... I never said that. This post will self distruct immediately after you read it. ffffffsssssss

[haosiliu235]

I am planning to buy the TSC-10HB and it says 3 hp heavy single phase motor, and on the website it says that it needs a 15amp outlet...
You say I can install a 13 amp outlet my self??? so...what tools do i need.

[Greg Q]

A cellular phone and a defibrillator. Someone else to dial 000 and do the CPR until the ambulance arrives.

Seriously, if that wasn't a tongue in cheek post, leave it alone.

[Marc]

I am planning to buy the TSC-10HB and it says 3 hp heavy single phase motor, and on the website it says that it needs a 15amp outlet...
You say I can install a 13 amp outlet my self??? so...what tools do i need.
Hum...I know I will regret this....
Normal 2.5 wiring is all you need for a 15 amp outlet. The thing is HOW MANY outlet are on that particular circuit.
If you have an ordinary 10 amp outlet that is hooked on its own to his own circuit straight from the circuit board, all you need is a small screwdriver to change the thing from 10 to 15 at the cost of $5, (cut the power before you do it).
If on the other side, that wire also serves another 5 outlets used for your TV, your washing machine, your bedroom heater and your air conditioner, you can understand that the poor old 2.5mm will not cope with more load.

However not all is lost. If you have multiple circuit barkers, identify first the one that cuts the power to that outlet. Then see what else is cut off by that circuit breaker. Once you identify all the other power outlets that are served by that circuit, the "poor man choice" would be to block them all off with those kid safe plugs and never use them. This way you will have a dedicated circuit to your fake 15 amp outlet. Next step you change it to 15 amp and Bob is your uncle.
If the wiring is single strand cable, the tip of the cable will probably brake off, so cut the old tips off, peel one centimeter and screw them tight. If you find a loop, do the same, cut it off and do it anew, twist it tight with a straight insulated plier, cover the loop with a cable connector and screw all the connections tight.
If you have no idea what you are doing, before you undo the cables, make a diagram of everything you see, including colours. Green or green and yellow is earth, the one at the lowest point. Looking at the socket from the front, the one to the left is live and the cable is brown or red. Neutral is the one to the right alwasy looking from the front and is blue or black. Some of the power point you buy have the colors on the back screws to avoid confusion.
Don't do this with power on.

[haosiliu235]

Thanks for your help but...it's too confusing:? better off getting an electrician to do it... so the price range is between 50-400? what about a 2hp table saw..does it need a 15amp outlet too?

[Sturdee]

I am planning to buy the TSC-10HB and it says 3 hp heavy single phase motor, and on the website it says that it needs a 15amp outlet...
You say I can install a 13 amp outlet my self??? so...what tools do i need.

If you are buying the TSC-10HB then you don't need an 15 amp powerpoint as a 10 amp is sufficient. The TS uses less than 10 amps on start up (about 9.3 amps) and then drops down to about 5 amps on running.

On a 10 amp circuit I run the said TS, 2 hp dust collector/cyclone, an additional 1 hp DC booster, a vacuum cleaner and a radio at the same time without any problems. I normally switch on the 2hp cyclone, then the TS, then the booster dc motor and vacuum cleaner whilst the radio is playing.

Peter.

[chrisp]

H.S.

Don't muck with the fixed wiring - and don't change the outlet to a 15A unit. It is a dead give-away that you have been messing with the wiring as it will be non-compliant.

Your circuit will be protected with a circuit-breaker or fuse - this will offer sufficient protection to overloads. The wiring (if in good condition - "ducks in a row" :) ) won't overheat if overloaded as the fuse or circuit-breaker will blow/trip before the wire can gets hot. What you will be leaving yourself open to is tripping of the circuit-breaker (or blowing a fuse) if there is anything else on the same circuit that draws significant power.

Either change the plug on the tablesaw to a 10 plug, or make a short extension cord with a 10 A plug and 15A socket.

You will not pull a lot of power, even with a 3hp tablesaw, in typical domestic use. If you are running a timber mill and using power feeders, you might get to load the saw to full capacity for an sustained period.

I could almost bet an electrician would advice the same - why not call one and have them look at your wiring and advise you.

[MurrayD99]

.........
Either change the plug on the tablesaw to a 10 plug, or make a short extension cord with a 10 A plug and 15A socket.

You will not pull a lot of power, even with a 3hp tablesaw, in typical domestic use. If you are running a timber mill and using power feeders, you might get to load the saw to full capacity for an sustained period.

I could almost bet an electrician would advice the same - why not call one and have them look at your wiring and advise you.

My electrician told me to put a motor fuse in the circuit. He was right. Worked just fine for the big blue saw - and for the record, he was the guy that originally wired the shed.

H.S. If you want to hunt around, there is significant material on this forum on running the TSC10HB on 10 amp power but most of it is summarised above.

[routermaniac]

If you are buying the TSC-10HB then you don't need an 15 amp powerpoint as a 10 amp is sufficient. The TS uses less than 10 amps on start up (about 9.3 amps) and then drops down to about 5 amps on running.

On a 10 amp circuit I run the said TS, 2 hp dust collector/cyclone, an additional 1 hp DC booster, a vacuum cleaner and a radio at the same time without any problems. I normally switch on the 2hp cyclone, then the TS, then the booster dc motor and vacuum cleaner whilst the radio is playing.

Peter.

I concur with Peter. Not only doesnt it need 15amps but my TSC came with a 10amp plug standard.

I also turn the TSC on first and then the dusty and have had no problems.

regards

Marios

[haosiliu235]

thanks...so i'll do fine running the TSC-10HB on normal power supply.

cheers

[routermaniac]

I concur with Peter. Not only doesnt it need 15amps but my TSC came with a 10amp plug standard.

I also turn the TSC on first and then the dusty and have had no problems.

regards

Marios

Oh yeah and if you have no idea what you are doing with electricals, dont stuff around with it, its not the same as cross-cutting a piece of wood too short. If you stuff up it can cost you your life.

regards

Marios