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[haosiliu235]

I am planning to buy a table say at the www show:U...because i heard that the delivery fee is free:2tsup:. I am still not sure which table saw to buy but looing at the MJ2325B. Does any 1 have any better suggestions and owners of the MJ2325B, after using the MJ2325B TS, what pros and cons have you found while using the TS. and does the MJ2325B run on 10 amp outlet?

thanks so much:U

[munruben]

This saw comes with a 15amp plug but there has been quite some discussion on running a 15amp power saw on a 10amp outlet. some say it is not a problem just so long as you don't run anything else on the same outlet at the same time as using 15amp power tool.
I intend to buy the MJ2325B but for my own peace of mind I think I will have a 15 amp outlet installed in the shed if I do.
I have heard good reports on this particular saw but I am sure someone who has one will post in this thread and let you know what you want to know.

Keith, where are you? we need some input here.:)

[nev25]

This saw comes with a 15amp plug but there has been quite some discussion on running a 15amp power saw on a 10amp outlet. some say it is not a problem just so long as you don't run anything else on the same outlet at the same time as using 15amp power tool.
:)

I say (as an Electrician)
Don't cut the 15 amp plug off an put a 10 Amp on one because
if the power tool is pulling more that 10 Amps (and usually thats why they have a 15amp Plug) the 10 amp power point will melt.
In other words the 10amp outlet is designed for up to 10amps
The 15 Amp is for up to 15amps
A 20 amp etc etc
Thats why we pay more for a 15amp outlet

[SWR]

Hi Haosiliu,

Firstly as the recent purchaser of a MJ2325B I can recommend the saw.

I bought the carbatec version but I know that there are a few variations around (Hare & Forbes, Sherwood, Leda etc). The saw is great and it goes together very well (allow about 3 hours) and it certainly has enough grunt to cut through the heartiest of seasoned hardwood.

[[[KnuckleheadDisclaimer following!!! If you are not an electrician or extremely proficient with 240 volt wiring, don't attempt anything that I am about to write about, especially if you give yourself an instant affro like burning perm!]]]

The 15 amp plug is on the verge of overkill in my opinion and I will tell you why:

The current the motor draws is based on the following formula P= I x E where P=power I=Current and E=Voltage If we know the voltage and the power and want to know the current then the formula looks like this I=P/E
so the current in the MJ2325B is the following I=2250/240 or 9.375 Amps.

Now most 10 amp outlets will handle this okay but it is not good practice to stress the wiring if you can avoid it, so here's what I did.

I used a 15 amp outlet with the correct 2 mm TPS wiring rated and installed it in the correct flexiduct conduit, used saddles to locate the duct and installed it from the table saw on a solid timber post back to a junction box. The junction box was then connected to a 10 amp outlet using a 10 amp connector but with 15 amp cable. This lead is about a foot long, so I am minimising any loss in the cable.

I have a single 15 amp circuit in my shed for the lights and the power, which is a real pain. I will get 3 phase into there one day (especially since I have it in my switchboard) The result is that any biggish appliance (like my TR-12 router) and my welder will, in use actually dim the lights. My old home-made table saw dimmed the lights on startup - the new MJ2325B actually dims the lights less...

Of course I could be completely wrong and I am prepared to be corrected...:doh:

Scott in Peakhurst.

[Rookie]

My view on the 10 amp/15 amp discussion is in the other thread, but I'll reiterate it. If it says 15 amps, run it off 15 amps.

By now, we all know that a M2325B and a TSC10-HB will run on 10 amps. If you run it as the only other machine on the circuit, you can probably also run a dusty as long as you don't power them up at the same time. Big deal. That's not the point.

The pertinent point here is that not everyone is a sparky, or has some sparky knowledge. So the guy saying it's okay to change plugs etc to 10 amps might also be very comfortable with the fact that he knows the power layout in his shed.

This advice however, could be taken as an unconditional okay by someone with no sparky knowledge, who doesn't know the power layout and has no idea what the implications are even if he did.

15 amp circuits are meant to be single drop. That is, the machine plugged into it is the only machine on it. 10 amp circiuits on the other hand can be multi drop and unless you know what else is on that circuit, you could get into issues if you overload it. The best result would be the circuit breaker pops when the fridge motor kicks in and you're half way through a cut. Advising someone that it's okayto run a TS off 10 amps may be advising them to put it on a circuit they know nothing about.
To summarise Nev, that's why they have the plugs they have. Because that's the safe recommendation.

So please be wary of giving advice to people which could be taken as applying to all situations. I'm not a sparky, and I do take liberties now and then because I know my environment, but not everyone does and I think it's a bit dangerous to advise in our own context and have others follow it in theirs.

[haosiliu235]

is it ok to buy a 15 Amp leads with 15 Amp Plugs extension lead and plug one end into the power supply and one end into the TS? and where would i find a 15 amp plug? or ...?

[haosiliu235]

what's the worst that could happen by using 15 amp on 10 amp outlet? what is some safety precaution I should Know about, and is it dangerous to me? does using 15 amp on 10amp outlet limit the length of time using the TS(can't Use it for long time)? And could any 1 recommend other TS that runs on 10 amp and still very powerful.

thanks so much!!

[Rookie]

The worst that could happen?????

You burn your house and shed down and you and others die in it.

Sorry, but you did ask the worst that could happen.

The likliehood of that very much depends on the state of the wiring and circuit breakers/fuses. A combination of errors would be needed to cause that.

Most likely is a different thing. Maybe it works fine because there's no load anywhere else. Maybe it just frustrates tha hell out of you because the breakers keep tripping when you're always half way through a cut. Who knows.

I just reckon that we spend so much on kitting out the shed, that the cost of getting the correct power in is a much smaller factor.


edit: Sorry, didn't answer the other bit. No. Running it on 10 amps rather than 15 will not affect the amount of time you can run the saw.

[Waldo]

My view on the 10 amp/15 amp discussion is in the other thread, but I'll reiterate it. If it says 15 amps, run it off 15 amps.

G'day,

:brava: :wss:

:banghead: why when you fork out good money for machinery, why the hell do people squibble on paying a few extra bucks to install 15amp in their sheds? :: :?

[Papillon]

I'm with John and Nev all the way.

If the manufacturers could safely sell these things with 10amp plugs they would, because they would sell more of them that way for sure. Think about it, you wouldn't be wondering, you would be buying if it was a standard 10 amp, wouldn't you.


so the current in the MJ2325B is the following I=2250/240 or 9.375 Amps.9.375 is close enough to 10 that you've got no margin for error.

It will take bugger all to overload the circuit and find out whether you've tripped a fuse/breaker, fried a circuit or burnt down the shed.

And I'll guarantee your insurance policy won't be worth a cracker if that happens.

Just because others on here have got away with it (so far) doesn't mean you will.

When I was a whole lot younger (and dumber) I deliberately went straight through a red light at a busy intersection, to see if I could. I was bloody lucky, I made it in one piece. That doesn't mean it was a safe or smart thing to do, or that I would suggest it to anyone else.

For my money don't do it.
:rantoff:
Cheers,
Papillon.

[haosiliu235]

could any 1 recommend other TS that runs on 10 amp and still very powerful.

[nev25]

Yeah the thing that would worry me as an Electrician is not the 9.375 Amp running current
Its the starting current.
When motors start there is a sudden in-rush of current (hence as someone said previously the light dim when it is turned on)

As this is only a very short period of time in most cases
But in a machine thats constantly being stopped and started things could very well exceed the 10 amp capacity of the Power point continually and could get very hot.

The manufacturer would have put a 15 amp Plug-top on the machine with this in mind.

And as someone said in the previous post most 15 amp power outlets would be on its own circuits even possible to have a few on the same circuit but would use thicker cable.
This is where the installing electrician would have had to have done Maximum demand calculations and referred to Australian standard as to the current carrying capacity of the cable and protection device used.

I recently got called out to a house with a (as the homeowner said) a faulty switch board!
When I arrived at the job I was told when the they are cooking and something else in the front half of the house is turned on the fuse blows!

They replaced the 16amp fuse with a plug in 20Amp Circuit breaker
It held for a while but would eventually trip
I did a quick calculation of the oven to discover it was pulling around 17amps.
While I was there the husband walked in a said yeah when they bought the oven it had the wrong plug on it so his brother (not him) put a "normal" Plug on it and plugged it into a double adapter behind the fridge (same outlet as the fridge).
We pulled the fridge out to discover a molten mess of plastic not to mention a black 10amp power point.
Very Lucky people

As Ive said previously Manufactures put these plug-tops on for a reason


Incidental in our calculation we now use 230v not 240v and have done for some time now (at least here in Vic anyway)
I'm not sure why but as Ive said in other posts I don't write the regulations just abide by them.

[woodcutta]

Hi Haosiliu,


The current the motor draws is based on the following formula P= I x E where P=power I=Current and E=Voltage If we know the voltage and the power and want to know the current then the formula looks like this I=P/E
so the current in the MJ2325B is the following I=2250/240 or 9.375 Amps.


Of course I could be completely wrong and I am prepared to be corrected...:doh:

Scott in Peakhurst.


Not quite correct - the power factor has not been considered in this calculation -
Assuming a pf of .8 lagging to get 2250W of true power 2812VA is required.
Divide this by the applied voltage (240) and you get 11.718 Amps - too much for a 10 amp plug

Regards
woodcutta

[haosiliu235]

so...if I am not going to install an 15 amp outlet... which table saw can run on a 10 amp outlet and is still very powerful?

[Waldo]

G'day haosiliu235,

:shrug: dunno, but little while back someone posted they'd bought a 10amp machine and that it ate the hard stuff easy enough without any dramas. Don't know who it was so i can't give you any more that a search would turn something up.

They're out there.

(man I loved X Files)

[Blackout]

Not quite correct - the power factor has not been considered in this calculation -
Assuming a pf of .8 lagging to get 2250W of true power 2812VA is required.
Divide this by the applied voltage (240) and you get 11.718 Amps - too much for a 10 amp plug

Regards
woodcutta


Just to be a pain, the stated Watts for motors should be the shaft mechancial power so you have to divide these by the motor efficiency of say 0.85 (my guestimate) for these motors 2250/0.85 = 2647Watts electrical power then divide by that power factor 2647/0.8 = 3309VA and then divide by the applied voltage 240V gives 3309/240= 13.8A.

This is the full load current if the motor was fully loaded. It can be less if the applied voltage drops through the cable or is less than 240V at the house any way. It can be more if the motor is loaded more than the continuous rating of 2250W at the shaft.


If you can't have the additional 15A outlet installed now then the choice to find a 10A saw would be my choice.

Cheers,

Blackout

[John G]

Back to the original question regarding the saw, there was a thread last year asking the exact same question.

I am sure you did a search and read this before you posted your question, but in case you didn't:
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=38422

[edit: sorry, that's the wrong thread, but I can't find the one I remember... still looking. Search on 2325]

The conclusion is that the 10hb is superior to the 2325, but at almost twice the price you have to decide if it worth it.

[haosiliu235]

cheers

[John G]

I still haven't found that original thread, so if I can try remember the general jist...

The thread was about the effort required to set up and tune an MJ-2325 before using it.
The thread had a long description about tuning the tables (which had some pitting in the castings), squaring the blade, aligning the belts, fine tuning the fence, etc etc. This was contrasted against the 10-HB, which was virtually ready out of the box.

The point was the 2325 was cheaper, but needed a whole lot of "fixing" once you got it home. For a few hundred dollars more you got a saw that didn't need fixing at all.
It convinced me that when I retire the Triton in about 12 months (once we move to the new house), I should get the 10HB.

(If anyone else can find that original thread it would be appreciated.)
John.

[Rookie]

Don't know about the thread either, but when I got my 2325 from H&F there was precious little tuning I needed to do. The table was flat as long as I bolted the wings on flat. The blade was dead parallel with the mitre gauge slots (whatever they're called). I needed to tweak the blade adjustment slightly to get it at 90 degrees to the table when the indicator said so, and I did adjust the fence a touch to get it square. All up, less than an hour.

I guess it depends where you get it and I may have been fortunate. I remember being surprised that it needed so little tuning after reading some of the posts on that type of saw.

[davo453]

No idea if this is approved practice, but it seems ok to me.

A mate had a similar problem 15amp table saw no 15 amp point in shed cheapest option was to have a 15 amp power point put right next to the power board. Most boards have spare capacity after all.

Then buy a 15 amp extension cord and run that to the shed.

As I understand it (informed by tame sparkie mate, who did mine) a 15amp power point must be a single point on it's own cable with the approved and appropriately rated cable and power point etc.

Oh yes and I can tell you as I have worked as an insurance claims assessor (shame on me I know) that they would frown very deeply on any claim associated with a fire or another damage resulting from the use of unapproved equipment. Namely a 15 amp device plugged into a 10 service.

Dave

[petermcb]

Well done to Woodcutta and Blackout for correcting the earlier simlified power rating formula. I was reading through this thread and wondering if anyone would pickup on these two easily overlooked, but very important, facts. :2tsup:

Peter
Electrical Engineer

[haosiliu235]

I got the TS and it's running on 10 amp fine:U, but I'll install the 15 amp outlet once i get the dust collector.

cheers!!!!!

[MurrayD99]

I still haven't found that original thread, so if I can try remember the general jist...

The thread was about the effort required to set up and tune an MJ-2325 before using it.
The thread had a long description about tuning the tables (which had some pitting in the castings), squaring the blade, aligning the belts, fine tuning the fence, etc etc. This was contrasted against the 10-HB, which was virtually ready out of the box.

The point was the 2325 was cheaper, but needed a whole lot of "fixing" once you got it home. For a few hundred dollars more you got a saw that didn't need fixing at all.
It convinced me that when I retire the Triton in about 12 months (once we move to the new house), I should get the 10HB.

(If anyone else can find that original thread it would be appreciated.)
John.


This 'un http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=19390

There is also the question of using a dado head... which apparently you can't:no:. If you bought the saw and the tables etc are OK, maybe the bad batch explanation was correct.

[Ron Dunn]

... I'll install the 15 amp outlet once i get the dust collector ...

Are you mad?

You've already got neighbour problems with your table saw. Add a dust collector and they're going to burn your house down.