Carbide Tipped Chain ?

[BUNTA]

Ok here we go ...... this might sound a little (real) stupid but is there any where i can buy a chainsaw chain to fit my lucas mill slabber that has carbide tips ??? would cut a lot better & need sharpening a lot less.
i know they would cost a fair bit but a man's sanity is worth a bit also.:?

[DJ’s Timber]

They are available, but boy they would cost heaps :o, as to where you can get them, I would start with your local chainsaw supplier.

The other question you also need to ask, is how are you going to sharpen it?

[BobL]

Last a lot longer, "yes" - cut better/quicker - "not really".

The consensus from those that have tried TC tipped chains is that because they can never be really sharpened as sharp as as a conventional chain, they're like using a dull conventional chain, but they do stay dull for a very long time before getting into what you might call a blunt stage. If you hit something really hard like a rock, regular chain teeth sort of mangle the edges and sort slide over said object (ie can sometimes be recovered by resharpening) whereas CT tips will fly off or be chipped beyond repair. Sharpening is a beech and $$$ and if you are used to a sharp conventional chain you will probably ditch it and go back to the regular one.

Carbides are for use by folks for which money is not an issue and can afford to ditch them if they lose a few teeth, and don't like to sharpen.

See also http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=54888
Do a search for carbide chain in that forum for lots more info

[BUNTA]

Thanks gents .......i will give it a miss as they do not sound as good as i had imagined !!

[kimtree]

Centrephone services,Oberon have carbide chain for lucas mills.I've had one for 2 years,certainly they cut slower but the cut quality is much better,you can sharpen them easily with a diamond file.

[bobsreturn2003]

easy to sharpen just use some of those diamond files in your dremel /slow speed \ and the teeth are sharp ,great for burls and other dirty wood use plenty of oil when cutting . if your chain is getting blunt too quickly .is the log clean?dirt can blunt a chain real quick try washing with a hose or pressure cleaner ,before milling if possible . happy cutting . bob :B

[DJ’s Timber]

Another thing too Bunta, what's the soil like around where you are?

Where I get my logs from, there is a lot of silica present in the logs due to the area being fairly rocky. Due to this I pretty much have to swap or re-sharpen chains every 1 or 2 slabs

[BUNTA]

DJ the soil is black as in river country & not many rocks at all but the red gum is still as hard as nails ...will be out again this weekend so more pic's coming

[Sigidi]

I just can't rationalise the added expense for TCT saw chain Salty72 is doing some research into pricing for Lucas slabbing chain using TCT and cutterless chain between cutter sets, but you need to shell out something like $600 for an electric diamond sharpener.

Again, I just can't justify the expense, especially when the 27R type chain works so nicely

[salty72]

Sigidi , is correct I have spent the last week chasing up prices and this is the result....(in rough figures - As Ppl are a bit loose with their price unless you place an order)
<$350 for TCT (carbide is $2.25 per Drive link + $1 per drive link for cutterless)
<$130 for 27RX or
<$114 for RA (ground to suit)
to sharpen TCT you do need $280 for the wheel against $8 for normal chain eith way you'll need $300ish for a GOOD 4" grinder ......yer! I know ebay sells 'em for $60 but what’s the life like ) Oh and $100 for a breaker and $100 for a spinner to join em...
a 100Ft roll or CARLTON 27RX is around $800 (just over 7 chains @190 links)
a 100ft roll of OREGAN 27RA is around $500 (ok so you need to grind links to suit ......but one chain will make 3Skip, 5Skip, Full comp, and any thing else you might want)

would Ppl be interested if they could get TCT, RX (3 or 5Skip) or RA chain at cost +$20 per chain to cover time/effort

[kimtree]

Centrephone Services Oberon 02 6336 5270 offer better prices than ive come across anywhere else,if you buy a roll its made up free.25ft or 100ft,they also supply tungsten carbide chain and other forestry related stuff

[Exador]

Sigidi , is correct I have spent the last week chasing up prices and this is the result....(in rough figures - As Ppl are a bit loose with their price unless you place an order)
<$350 for TCT (carbide is $2.25 per Drive link + $1 per drive link for cutterless)
<$130 for 27RX or
<$114 for RA (ground to suit)
to sharpen TCT you do need $280 for the wheel against $8 for normal chain eith way you'll need $300ish for a GOOD 4" grinder ......yer! I know ebay sells 'em for $60 but what’s the life like ) Oh and $100 for a breaker and $100 for a spinner to join em...
a 100Ft roll or CARLTON 27RX is around $800 (just over 7 chains @190 links)
a 100ft roll of OREGAN 27RA is around $500 (ok so you need to grind links to suit ......but one chain will make 3Skip, 5Skip, Full comp, and any thing else you might want)

would Ppl be interested if they could get TCT, RX (3 or 5Skip) or RA chain at cost +$20 per chain to cover time/effort


Nice work, salty. I must say though, that I don't go through chains that fast. 90% of our work would be with the swingblade with only a small amount of slabbing. At the current rate of use, the 3 chains that came with the mill are going to last about 5 years!

[bobsreturn2003]

you can use the small diamond files to sharpen carbide chain ,use the rotary sharpeners ,or an electric drill , these hone the chain , really sharp , only use this chain for dirty burls etc . find the standard chain is good for the mill. centrephone is great on price and service ,knows what they are talking about also . i use the diamond rotary files for ordinary chain ,magic , cheeers bob

[salty72]

Centrephone is the best place for TCT chain and one of the only places for CUTTERLESS Chain....
1 x 25ft roll 404 x .063 tungsten rip chain (10deg) $1465.20 -
1 x 100ft roll 404 cutterless chain $770.00 -
1 x chain breaker $105.82 -
1 x chain spinner $105.82 -
1 x 12volt grinder $320.00 - (later informed that the 12V wont cut 10degrees)
1 x 105mm diamond wheel $259.93.
I have got a few quotes for 100 Ft rolls of 27RX for $785 (most places want $850+
cheapest 27RA was $475 (again most want $580+ )

[salty72]

Centrephone Services Oberon 02 6336 5270 offer better prices than ......,if you buy a roll its made up free....

getting chain made free is Good, a 100Ft roll will make 7 Chains @ 190 Links for a price of $114 (which is even better) the problem is who needs 7 chains all the same and who has the $800+ to outlay..

[bobsreturn2003]

if you dont need a 100ft get 25ft , he still makes them for free ! not hard to do yourself if you have an angle grinder a pin punch a ball pein hammer and a steel bar or mandrel. to rejoin . you do need to count the links , cheers bob

[salty72]

I guess you could also ring LUCAS and order each chain as you need it this would be the simplest (considering you won't need grinders, chain breakers/rivet rollers etc...) but the problem is much like "buying a of beer".
individually beers are $6ea
6 pack is $18 (3ea)
1/2 doz is $24 ($2ea)
1 carton is $35 ($1.45)
a pallet of 48cartons is $1248 ($1.02ea)

I guess it's all about value for money and not paying over the odds...

I'm curious you mentioned an angle grinder -is this to grind the link pins, so they can be removed with the pin punch? If this is the case does this not seriously weeken the join and thus may result major carnage??

[bobsreturn2003]

hi the angle grinder is to take the folded head off the rivet/pin the chain is of course protected by the straps which are discarded also . this is replaced when the joining link is installed to rejoin the chain ! may sound crude ,but done with care have not had a problem ,as i am some distance to a dealer this helps . prefer to use centre phone ,as its delivered to town and they know what they are doing . some dealers think everyone should run the size they carry . try to use the same type of chain on your saws , eg 3/8 .058 g . fing .063 too big for most saws . ideal for slabbers . hope this helps . battling on in the rain , cheers bob

[Sigidi]

What do you guys think of a chain with 'scoring cutters' as I've mentioned in another post, I've only used the Oregon 27R family of chain for slabbing. So I've not used anything with 'Scoring cutters'

I'll try and post a pic of what I'm talking about...

http://www.reallmilling.com/fpdb/images/Theme0/chain1.jpg

I've got a length of new 27RA (single skip ripping Chain) what is the consensus on 'altering' the chain to match the pic? Do we think it will promote faster cutting, or smoother cutting? be too bloody painful to sharpen? too much for the motor to push? any ideas really?

I just wanna find the holy grail of slabbing chain... :D

[weisyboy]

i have been debating weathe to give this a try also.

i cant see any problem wiht cutting it down but sharpening may cause a problem it will nearly need to be done with a flat file.

only way to find out is to try it.

i'll give it a go on an old chain first.

[Sigidi]

Well I've all but stopped using 27RA so it may not get used at all anyway, and at $53 for the chain I'd do an experiment.

From the pic it looks like the scoring cutters have been reduced to a third of the original cutter width, but still looks like it has a round file at 20 deg to sharpen and then the clearing cutter is again using a round file at the 0-5 deg region.

Weisyboy do you think the scoring cutters would get too hot being so much thinner?

Thinking about the mechanics of the chain whilst cutting I think the scoring cutters cut two thin parallel lines to define the kerf and then the clearing cutter acts like a chisel and 'chips' or 'pares' out the rest of the kerf, does this sound about right?

and what about converting a chain into this style, you'd need to do a left scorer, right scorer, left clearer, then what??? a right scorer, left scorer, right clearer... or right clearer, then scorers?

[salty72]

SIGIDI with this chain you might have to consider the power required to pull the chain thru the timber now that every link has a cutting face and as one smart bloke once told me... if the timber is 700mm wide and cut is 10mm thats 70Cubic CM per cut

[weisyboy]

the chain should be easyer to pul threw when cut into this fashon as it is cutting in 2 motions instraed of 1.

the teath are cut down so as there is no top plate just a streight tooth stickin up.

they should stay cooler then befor because the are only doing a fraction of the work.