Another new build. [Archive]

hairymick

28th November 2007, 08:45 PM

Thanks guys,

The boat concerned is a 13 foot rec kayak by Matt of Jemwatercraft. I have had the pleasure of building a few of his fine boats now, but this one, I think is something kind of special.

Here is a link.

http://www.jemwatercraft.com/proddetail.php?prod=Laker

Please let me make it clear that I have no commercial ties with this designer, or any financial interest in Jemwatercraft. I simply like Matt's designs and find him very good to do business with. I was fortunate enough to build the protype of this boat, and have negotiated a fair price with Matt to build a second boat from the same set of plans.:2tsup:

Over the past 18 months or so, I have struggled with various forms of "work benches" from a couple of pieces of twisted 5" X 2" ironbark across a couple of saw horses, a make shift strongback and more recently, a couple of folding, ply top tables from Bunnings. None of these have made the joys of building a stitch and glue boat easy.

To this end, and with a couple of more complex builds in mind, I have finally bitten the bullet and build myself a purpose built, boat building workbench. 16' long X 2' wide. Frame was made from straight 6" X 2" treated pine sleepers with a sheet of 1/4" ply screwed to the top. i like it. It is straight, square and most important, level. It will also double as a strong back for my more complex builds next year. Cost, of the bench, about a hundred bucks and well worth it.

The laker kayak, is of symmetrical design, in that the front and rear bottom and side panels are identical. (I love that). It means that only one panel for the bottom and one for the sides needs to be marked out. When it is cut and trimmed, they are simply placed onto the next sheets, traced around and cut - easy.:U (I need things easy)

So far, I have only marked out and rough cut the first "template" panels and hope to get them trimmed up and their sisters marked and cut tomorrow. Will try to post a couple of piccies here.:doh:

Walesey

28th November 2007, 11:04 PM

I do like the look of that Boat Bench Hairy! It looks better than my table tennis table, although, when the boat is done, mine will serve better for a quick hit of TT. I should ask Santa for a special purpose built boat building shed to put the bench in. Now that would be luxury!

regards
Walesey

Boatmik

29th November 2007, 12:03 PM

Walesey

29th November 2007, 01:14 PM

Walesey - you might even have enough ply in the table tennis table to have a crack at the kayak here!

If you cut carefully you might be able to leave the net standing just in front of the cockpit!

MIK

Yeah. Well that is probably right Mik, but with all the fancy compound curves that you designer fellers put into the decks on these things, I would NEVER be able to predict which way the ball was going to bounce. (not that I can very well on a FLAT table!) The boys would continue to thrash me in every match.:)

Walesey

hairymick

29th November 2007, 09:25 PM

G'day guys,

I got a bit done today.

Once, the primary, or template panels are marked and rough cut, I trim them down with a belt sander or electric hand planer to about half the thickness of the pencil lines.

I then use each master panel as a template to mark out any panels that need to be identical to it. I can get better use of each sheet of plywood this way. (less waste) Once all panels required are marked, I cut them to within about 1/4" inch or so of the pencil lines ( not important, near enough is good enough at this stage.)

Once all panels are cut, I stack them carefully with the master panel on top and screw them down onto my bench. (I love my new bench) and trim al panels at the same time

hairymick

29th November 2007, 09:29 PM

Some more piccies

MikeyRoberts

30th November 2007, 04:26 PM

When using your trimmer bit on the router it looks like you can't get completely flush to the template (I've never used one, but I have read that this is true). So the parts that you produce will be a mm or so bigger than your template.

Do you follow up the router with a second step? Or do you make the template a bit smaller than actual size? Or is it near enough to perfect anyway?

hairymick

30th November 2007, 11:09 PM

G'day Mikey,

Thanks for the question mate.

The panels are flush though it sure doesn't look that way in the piccie. I don't know why that is. A mill' is too much variation for my liking though it probably wouldn't hurt much. A trimmer would probably work but I doubt that it would have sufficient power to do it well. I prefer to use a full size plunge router with a 1/2" bit.

The bit with the bearing on top, properly called a Pattern Bit, makes things pretty easy. even so, you need to be very careful to keep the base of the router sitting squarely on the surface of your ply. Particularly so with the thinner ply for a pattern. Tilt the machine one way or the other and the bearing will miss the edge of the pattern and the bit chews into your panels very quickly. Having said that, it is not difficult to use. I would recommend some practise cuts on scrap before attacking the real thing. You will quickly see what I mean.

The extra time spent in panel alignment and set up is well worth it in time and effort savings. Once set up, it takes about 5 minutes to trim a set of all matching panels to exactly the same shape and size. In the Laker hull panels, that means doing 4 panels at once.

In a production environment, where several - or many boats were going to be made from the one set of patterns, I would be using a thicker template. something like 16mm mdf or similar.

hairymick

5th December 2007, 05:05 PM

Panel splices are done.:D Hope to start stitching this week end. Will post a piccie as so as I get something worthwhile.

hairymick

8th December 2007, 07:52 PM

Still trying to get a handle on piccies here.
Bottom panels stitched and temp frames going in.
Hull stitched and tacked up.

hairymick

18th December 2007, 10:41 PM

The hull is glassed inside and out. Sheer clamps installed and have applied 3 coats of graphite enriched epoxy to the boats bottom. The graphite increases scratch and abrasion resistance and makes the boat a little more slippery through the water.

Have started cutting and fitting deck supports, and bulkheads. Will finish all interior work before I put the decks on.

bitingmidge

18th December 2007, 10:48 PM

Slow down!

P
:D:D:D

hairymick

23rd December 2007, 07:34 PM

Bit more done today.

Pic 1 -Cut and fitted a rear bulkhead, with shear clamps

Pic 2 - Foot brace backing plates are cut & fitted

Pic 3 - seat is fitted and in. Forward deck support beam is also in.

hairymick

26th December 2007, 01:24 PM

Started fitting the decks today.

Walesey

26th December 2007, 07:39 PM

bitingmidge

26th December 2007, 08:42 PM

It must have been a slow old Christmas in the Hairy household eh?

I was too tired to even contemplate picking up a power tool let alone measuring anything. Just as well the cricket was on, or I would have been really grumpy!

Cheers,

P
:D

hairymick

26th December 2007, 09:12 PM

Now, C'mon Hairymick!
You are not going to win any friends by keeping up that blistering pace and showing all the rest of us up.

I have spent the whole day pondering what sort of joints I should use to make the seats on my Eureka, and still have not come up with a definate solution!

Ah well! What are holidays for if not to sit around eating Christmas left-overs thinking about what you should be doing if you were not sitting around eating Christmas left-overs?

By the way, the Kayak looks fantastic!

regards
Walesey :U

LOL, Thanks mate. when I start building a boat, I guess I just become obsessed with the build. I eat, breath and sleep the process and it becomes all I can think about. These boats are qhick and easy to build and very suitable for a first time builder. (I like that) there are no hard twists in the panels and their performance defies everything I thought I knew about boat design. They really are a fun little boat both to build and to paddle.

Re your sets, I would recommend a Mortise and Tennon joint in the frames. Real easy to do with a Triton saw bench and a router if you have them. (I like things easy):D

Christmas was real quiet for me. I had to work. My wife worked today ad it was nice and cool with all this rain we have been getting. Her boat just seems to be falling together for me at the moment.

Midge mate, I just love makimg sawdust.:U The fact that a
decent boat might come out at the end of it is purely a bonus for me.

This is the first time I have used quality Gaboon ply on a build. The others I used 3mm "blond" ply. (False economy - I know that now) Compared to the blond rubbish I have been using, this stuff is allmost magical. I just cant get enough of it.

Thank again for the comments guys, I appreciate them.:B

hairymick

27th December 2007, 10:09 PM

G'day guys,

A little more done today.:D

Decks are fitted,

Took them off, applied wood flour fillets to the inside of the seams, then saturation coat of epoxy and then the cloth & wet out coat and two more filler coats. I wait till the resin is just touch dry and then apply the second coat and repeat the process for the third. Wet on wet. love it.

first piccie shows my carry handle support backing plate.

Second piccie shows a small under deck tube for Robin's camera etc. and also fore-deck bungee mounting point, backing plates.

Third piccie shows rear hatch cut outand more bungee mount backing plates.

A clean up in the morning, and if the cyclone stays away, will stick the decks to the hull.

hairymick

28th December 2007, 03:30 PM

Decks are on.

Will let her rest now for a couple of days for my resin/wood flour to set up hard. Then to start truying to make her pretty.

Walesey

29th December 2007, 08:58 AM

But Hairy, where are all the clamps? Boatmik never told me that you could build a boat out of MASKING TAPE!!!

Regards
Walesey :)

hairymick

29th December 2007, 04:02 PM

G’day Walesey,

Mate, Normally I would have stitched the panels into place before tacking.

This time I tried something different. When I dry- fitted the decks to the hull, I spent a bit of time to make sure the deck panels sat at, or very close to where they were supposed to.

When it was time to glue the decks to the sheer clamps, it was a simple matter of applying a bead of glue and then sitting the decks down in place. All the masking tape is doing is applying a little pressure to ensure the epoxy glue is contacting both surfaces and holding the panels in place till it sets up.

This method is so much easier than my old way that I will be using it all the time now for attaching the decks:2tsup:

Walesey

29th December 2007, 10:26 PM

I am enjoying your thread, Hairy. Learning a lot, too.

My one and only experience (yet) in "Boat Building" has been my Eureka. It is Stitch and Glue, but the tension on some of those stitches made me very nervous on several occasions and has given me a whole new appreciation of the miracle that is "Epoxy Glue".

So, I take it that the panels in the Kayak are all flat with no twists?
Even if that is the case, I doubt that I could do the job in only 1 month as you have!

Keep up the good work!

Thanks for the tip re the joints. I think I will try the mortice and tennon joints. Trouble is that my router bit only goes half way through the 45mm timber, so it might have to be a "Blind Mortice". Probably look better that way, too.

I had thought of making a flat frame and then stringing it with PVC coved cloths line like on Mik Storer's 15kg Eureka.

We are heading off up the coast for a week, so it will be paddling without seats again, I guess. I really would not want to upset Midge by finishing mine too quickly, now, would I? :)

All the best
Walesey

hairymick

30th December 2007, 07:08 AM

G'day Walesey,

Thanks Mate, I ill reply more fully a bit later in the day.

Will have a search to see if I can find some piccies of my seat builds. they might help a bit. Blind Mortise joint will be fine!

I built my seats as an experiment and they worked very well for me. I will be doing something similar on a 16.5', solo, tripping canoe that I will be starting on soon.:D

I haven't built a Eureka yet, but from what I have read here the build methodology is a little different to what I am used to. Each of my builds is a new learning experience for me. and this is what I love about boat building. These forums are a wealth of information and different ideas and by reading them, I am getting new and beter ways of doing things all the time.

Getting ready for work now so will reply in a couple of hours or so.:D (I love my job!):D I can practice some of my ideas at work and see what works and what doesn't and then come home and put it into effect.:2tsup:

hairymick

30th December 2007, 09:30 AM

G'day Walesey,

So, I take it that the panels in the Kayak are all flat with no twists?
Even if that is the case, I doubt that I could do the job in only 1 month as you have

Mate, the panel twists I am talking about are the ones in the bottom panels on some builds where the stems are twisted uo to form the pointy stems. They go from flat or shallow V on the bottom to vertical at the stems. On some builds this can be very hard to do.

Laker completely avoids this, in a manner a little similar to what Boatmik has done on his Eureak canoe. with its flat bottom and the second panels forming the stems at the join.

Below are some piccies of experimental pirogue seats I made a while ago.

Pic 1 shows the blind mortise joint I managed to achieve with the aid of Triton Router table and triton saw bench.

Pic 2 is the assembled seat frame. (I only used 19 X 42mm slash pine) It was only an experiment.

Pic 3. Another view of assembled seat frame

Pic 4. Frame trenched. I did this on the Triton as well. In hind site I don't think trenching is necessary.

Pic 5. First layer of slats in the trenches. I ripped 19mm stock down to about 4mm thick for this.

Pics 6& 7. finished seat.

The slats were glued together with epoxy and were plenty strong enough for my 90ks

I think the timber slats add a nice touch and are way easier to do than woven cane and such. Hope this gives you a few ideas mate.

Walesey

30th December 2007, 01:17 PM

Ooooohh! Very nice wood working Hairy. :2tsup: That is kinda' the look I had in mind, but with PVC coated wire instead of the slats. I would be doing well to get the joinery as nice as yours, even with my triton. It will have to wait for a week or so now anyway. :q Thanks for the tips and the pics.

I seem to be turning this thread into a thread about MY boat instead of about YOURS. Sorry about that! :B

When will you have the Kayak in the water? I am looking forward to seeing the finished product! :U

regards
Walesey :)

bitingmidge

30th December 2007, 02:19 PM

Hmmm.

It's almost seat time Mk 2 in the Eureka.

Mk1 had the routed slats and looks pretty good if I do say so myself, but I don't want to have to buy a whole sheet of ply for two seats.

I might go the woven string... or maybe some webbing?

We'll see.

P

Boatmik

31st December 2007, 12:18 AM

Howdy,

I'm pretty sure the clothes line in the Eureka shots on my website is a synthetic cord - not the plastic coated wire clothesline.

Keep an eye on Midge's solution - He often comes up with some pretty nice and pretty different solutions!

Michael

hairymick

1st January 2008, 04:02 PM

Bit more done.

pic 1 sows decks ready to glass.

pic 2 shows first wet out coat.

pic 3 shows second fill coat and the start of the cockpit coamings.

fxst

3rd January 2008, 10:49 PM

Hairy here I was just relaxing not a care in the world and you go and show up with this episode!!!:((
I said I wouldn't build another boat for a while yet and now I find I've ordered the laker 13:doh:
Oh well the bear mountain canoe will take a backseat for now and I'll play with the laker:D
Seriously I needed a change before I tackle the Bear mountain canoe and I was looking for a kayak for playing with in the upper reaches of the gulf. This looks like a good one to play with and so I am now awaiting the plans:2tsup:
Pete

hairymick

4th January 2008, 08:36 AM

Heya Pete,

Congratulations mate.

These are a very good "play boat" I am certain you won't regret your investment.

I am still working on the coamings. Hope to get something worth taking a piccie of this week end.

hairymick

5th January 2008, 11:32 PM

Getting there.

bitingmidge

6th January 2008, 08:05 AM

You'll be in the water in time for the next low pressure system to hit by the looks! Should take almost no time to get home from our place then, with all that wind behind you!

It's looking great.

cheers,

P
:D

hairymick

6th January 2008, 12:38 PM

LOL, Thanks Midge.

Mate, the only thing I don't like about these boats is the ugly square hatch (and that was my idea ((brain fart)):doh: I wasn't smart enough at the time to contour the thing to the shape of the hull and make a shaped tub to fit in to match the lines of the boat.:no: I was having a sook about the uglyness of the thing to my mate the other day and how I had been agonizing over it. His simple answer "Why don't you build a wood tub?"
The thought never even crossed my mind.:doh:

Nevermind, next boat will be better.:)

Robin, my wife, wants to paint the hull and turn it into a girly girl boat, whatever that means. The compromise is I can do the deck etc in brightwork.

I just finished the top coat of epoxy and started fitting thigh braces. Will post a couple of piccies tonight.

Back to work tomorrow for a few days, then more sanding and start making her pretty.

bitingmidge

6th January 2008, 10:33 PM

Robin, my wife, wants to paint the hull and turn it into a girly girl boat, whatever that means. The compromise is I can do the deck etc in brightwork.

That is truly scary, specially what she's likely to do with the planter box! :oo::oo::oo:

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64112&d=1199619195

P
:D

hairymick

9th January 2008, 08:43 AM

:o LOL

Mate, what is truly scary is that your piccie is not far off the mark.

Still working on the cockpit.

hairymick

12th January 2008, 09:46 PM

She gets wet tomorrow!!!:D Yay!

Walesey

12th January 2008, 10:36 PM

Ooooooooohhh!
That is one beautiful craft Mick! (two, really!)
Do you find it difficult to paddle around the lawn?
So what happened to the pattened hull design and floral arrangement that Midge suggested?
I am looking forward to seeing the pics of her on the water tomorrow night!

Chees
Walesey :)

fxst

12th January 2008, 11:13 PM

ooooo look twins:D
Looks real good Mick.:2tsup:
As soon as the plans are here I'm gunna stuff one up for me ......er make I mean :doh:
Pete

hairymick

14th January 2008, 07:08 AM

G'day guys,

Will do a trip report soon but here are a couple of piccies.
1. Nice and stable.
2. We could easly keep pace with the big dollar sea kayaks at cruising pace.
3. the grins say it all!! these really are great little rec boats.

fxst

14th January 2008, 04:50 PM

absolutely magic....:D Good looking boat. even the colour seems to look good on it
Pete

bitingmidge

14th January 2008, 05:36 PM

Well it won't be long now till she's worn out and you'll have to build another one!

Great stuff, and great to see it being used with a mob too!

P
:2tsup:

hairymick

15th January 2008, 04:41 PM

Thanks guys, We paddled at Lenthall's dam with our local canoe and kayak club. Ours were the only wooden boats there and I am pretty pleased to say that all interest was on them. People were walking past Mirage 580s and 730s and the like to look at and ask questions about our little boats.

A real ego boost if I do say so myself.

Here is where the graphite bottom really shines

Pics they slip through this stuff like snot on a door knob.

fxst

15th January 2008, 05:06 PM

Nice shot that.... I seem to recall the stuff around the green bits is water is it not??:D
Got my plans today and while having a read the Mrs said "mmm I might like one" Bloody hell mick why did you do the WIP here :doh:
The graphite bottom thing ...what mix ratio did you use?
Pete

hairymick

15th January 2008, 05:53 PM

G'day Pete,

LOL,

Mate these are a surprisingly good little boat. I will go out on a limb here and predict that they will become iconic of Matt's boats. Their performance defied everything I thought I knew about boat design.

A couple of the sea kayakers tried mine and when they came back, all who did, wanted details of the site where they can be found.

Graphite ratio is 20% graphite powder, by volume to mixed resin. X 3 or 4 coats.

Mate when you build one and your wife tries it, if she is anything like my wife, she will definately want one of her own. There is nothing not to like about them - quick easy build, great little boat to paddle and the plans are cheap. There is even a free version of this boat.

fxst

15th January 2008, 11:20 PM

Yeah I saw the free plans but figured the guy needs to eat and the price was good and service quick ....ordered the 3rd Jan evening arrived 15th Jan even came with decals for the finished product...how good is that :D
I hope I can do it justice.
Pete

b.o.a.t.

12th September 2008, 08:13 AM

Graphite ratio is 20% graphite powder, by volume to mixed resin. X 3 or 4 coats.

Found this on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphite#Powder_and_scrap

"Graphite and graphite powder is valued in industrial applications for its self-lubricating and dry lubricating (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubricant) properties. There is a common belief that graphite's lubricating properties are solely due to the loose interlamellar coupling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleavage_(crystal)) between sheets in the structure. However, it has been shown that in a vacuum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum) environment (such as in technologies for use in space (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_space)), graphite is a very poor lubricant. This observation led to the discovery that the lubrication is due to the presence of fluids between the layers, such as air and water, which are naturally adsorbed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adsorbed) from the environment. This molecular property is unlike other layered, dry lubricants such as molybdenum disulfide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molybdenum_disulfide).

Not sure of the implications of the red text for coating boats with it. Wrong end of a night-shift...
Suppose if it were in the last of a 3-coat epoxy sealing it wouldn't matter.
Much.
Probably.

Thoughts?
Observations?

AJ

hairymick

13th September 2008, 07:27 AM

G'day AJ,

I don't know the teck like stuff but here are my reasons for swearing by graphite nriched epoxy. (in order of priority)

1. My primary reasons for applying it are abrasion resistance. It is very definately way tougher and more scratch resistant than epoxy or varnish alone. I paddle in a lot of very shallow, rock and stick/stump infested water. The graphite helps to protect the bottoms of my boats. I occassionally also paddle in mild white water. I would very respectfully suggest that there are not that many wooden kayak/canoe builders around who have such confidence in their epoxy alone encapsulated boats who might be prepared to even consider this. Anything shot of a direct, heavy impact on a rock, and my boats stand up to this sort of abuse magnificently.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/hairymick/Laker/LAKER%20TRIPS/MooloolaOct2007071640x480.jpg

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm241/Robinski-01/Mary%20River/IMGP2068112.jpg

2. These waters are also infested with lots of duckweed and lillies etc. The graphite seems to help in making the boat a little more slippery paddling through this stuff.

3. My boats also seem to be a little quicker when the graphite is applied in more ordinary paddling environment.

b.o.a.t.

13th September 2008, 07:10 PM

Boatmik

13th September 2008, 09:12 PM

G'day Hairymick

love the photos. Mary River near Kenilworth ?

I don't doubt the abrasion resistance or toughness of graphite. It is after all, the same
stuff as carbon fibre. Just wondering if its structure actually admits water into the
epoxy encapsulation between the carbon chains & the epoxy molecules.

MIK commented on the GIS thread that racers have moved away from graphite
bottoms as it actually captures a boundary layer of water & drags it along with the
boat. Bad in open water, but that boundary layer would assist the boat to slide over &
past obstructions, as you have observed.

Swings & roundabouts.

cheers
AJ

Nah ... not quite AJ,

There will be no water admission because of putting graphite into epoxy.

Also graphite has no special boundary layer ... everything that moves through water has a boundary layer. So there is always a layer of water just about completely stuck to the boat. So no sliding between water and hull.

Sliding between hull and rock might be provable, but no drag advantage between graphite/epoxy and water.

MIK

hairymick

13th September 2008, 10:15 PM

G'day AJ,

love the photos. Mary River near Kenilworth ?

LOL Right river mate but closer to Traveston near where Anna plans to put her damn dam. (don't get me started on that bloody thing) I don't think I've had a proper rant here yet and I been trying hard to be real good here.

I am very happy to bow to Miks way greater knowledge in all things boat re slipperyness in water, but the graphite truly is priceless re abrasion resistance and the boat seems to be a little easier paddling through weed and lillies than my GRP store bought boats. But that might have something to do with hull shape. I just don't know.

I like the stuff so much, I just can't imagine building a boat without putting it on the bottom.