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John Saxton
27th November 2007, 08:12 PM
Just wondering what folks takes are on in car GPS units what model they have,it's good points /shortcomings etc?...or what they would prefer!

Cheers:)

Jim Carroll
27th November 2007, 08:25 PM
I have a Garmin unsure of the model number but it sure has been handy.

No more trying to listen to somebody reading the melways or map upside down and looking for street names in the dark.

It is the only woman which I dont mind telling me where to go.:D

Takes the pressure of both of you and gets us to where we need to go.

nev25
27th November 2007, 08:41 PM
Just wondering what folks takes are on in car GPS units what model they have,it's good points /shortcomings etc?...or what they would prefer!

Cheers:)

Yeah I often wonder if the cheap ones on EBAY from china are any good

glock40sw
27th November 2007, 08:53 PM
G'day.
I use a Tomtom One XL. Had it for 6 months. Great piece of gear.
I hook it up to the Computer and get program updates every month.

No more Gregory's directories.

The Missus has a Subaru Liberty with the GPS built into the Dash. It is also good to use.
The Tomtom allows you to view the route in top down 2D or side on 3D where the Subaru unit only does 2D.

John Saxton
27th November 2007, 08:54 PM
I have a Garmin unsure of the model number but it sure has been handy.

No more trying to listen to somebody reading the melways or map upside down and looking for street names in the dark.

It is the only woman which I dont mind telling me where to go.:D

Takes the pressure of both of you and gets us to where we need to go.

thanks Jim, does yours have the facility of adding additional countries to its database?
Looking to drive thru Canada on a 6 month stint sometime soon in the planning and am looking for one that may cater to those needs as well as OZ.

Cheers:)

John Saxton
27th November 2007, 08:56 PM
G'day.
I use a Tomtom One XL. Had it for 6 months. Great piece of gear.
I hook it up to the Computer and get program updates every month.

No more Gregory's directories.

The Missus has a Subaru Liberty with the GPS built into the Dash. It is also good to use.
The Tomtom allows you to view the route in top down 2D or side on 3D where the Subaru unit only does 2D.

hi Trevor,thanks I 've also been eying off the same one ...there's a swag of them on epay.

Cheers:)

Groggy
27th November 2007, 08:59 PM
John, I have been using a Garmin Streetpilot III for 3-4 years and find it just a bit slow to recalculate. The other negative is the cost of map updates.

My wife has a TomTom IXL and that is great for motoring around just about anywhere and getting trip info.

Last month I got a new phone that has a GPS (Nokia 6110 Navigator). This is now my preferred unit for quick trips. I can set it to go anywhere (even the reading room) when I have a spare moment. It has a remarkable store of data and the only place I have had bother with so far is Royal Parade in Parkville. Everywhere else has been really easy to find and faster to get in go mode than the Garmin and TomTom units.

Cost wise, my old telstra (#$%@^&'s) phone was on a $60 plan for which I got the pleasure of being told CDMA was defunct the day after I bought it. The new phone gives me mobile broadband, gps and $120 worth of calls for $2 less than the telstra phone. I can also use the gps in walking mode which is really handy in other cities. For vehicular use, the screen is sufficiently large to get an idea of where I am going and the voice instructions are very good.

DJ’s Timber
27th November 2007, 09:26 PM
I've had the Tom Tom One for 6 or 8 weeks and use it for doing my timber deliveries and my garage sales run and it's been great.

I got the One instead of the XL so that it can sit at the very top right of the windscreen without obscuring my driving vision, perfect height and you only have to tilt your head slightly to read it if necessary.

Wood Borer
27th November 2007, 09:56 PM
I have an old Garmin 12 which is quite a few years old. It doesn't have streets etc and you have to enter the coordinates. It suits me for driving in the bush and in the desert.

The street types seem OK for the cities and the towns but up here they have all so far wanted to direct people off the bitumen and down Summer only tracks. We live on the bitumen road but so far they have all tried to send people down the rough tracks.

Obviously this is just a function of the map data but it could be a pest if you are planning on going to places outside the cities.

DJ can test his out next time he drops in.

BobL
27th November 2007, 11:04 PM
It's not an in-car model but I've had a Garmin GPSMAP 60C for a few years and have taken it to the US, Europe and the middle east. This year we took it with us on our trip to Italy and teh fact that it is highly portable meas=ns we used it nearly every day. It worked great on the autostrada and in cities and towns and walking around in easy to get lost places. I don't know how we would have found some of those small B&Bs without it. Screen is small but you can put it in your pocket like a largish mobile phone. I was subjected to a pat down search in Kuwait airport in 2005 and when I pulled it out the guard thought it was a mobile. Lucky I had my real mobile in my briefcase! Interesting how there were no detailed maps available for Kuwait!

Ashore
28th November 2007, 09:03 AM
I have had a navman iCN 510 for a few years now and found it great for all the reasons above plus it gives you an accurate speed
I like the look of the new navman with the built in camera , when you take a picture it remembers the location , thus by quickly scanning the thumbnails you can pick a desternation to go back to without having to remember the address.
The maps are on a removable xd card and you can get maps for most countries , just put in the xd card with those maps on it and away you go.
Had a nephew who was in china for some years who said that some of the chinesse GPS units were calibrated just a bit off , like 20 of 50 meters or so, which would make them as good as useless, so I would be carefull of what I bought on E-Bay :rolleyes:

Howdya do that
28th November 2007, 09:16 AM
I have a Navman S30. Its supposed to be the basic model but it does everything I need.
Best feature is its simplicity of operation:2tsup:

John Saxton
28th November 2007, 04:30 PM
Thanks to all for their responses,I have managed to get a Tom Tom One XL GPS off of E-bay at a reasonable cost that has USA & Canadian mapping and can add the Oz version as well!

I like the look of the wider screen,not a scrunched up look and the features it has for the cost far below that here in OZ.

Cheers:)

glock40sw
28th November 2007, 04:37 PM
G'day.
If you Google POI it will take you to sites that allow you to download points of interest and add them to your Tomtom.

I added Fixed speed cameras, School zones, Bunnings stores, and a few others as well. You can d/load different voices as well.

Have a gander and see what you can find.

John Saxton
28th November 2007, 04:42 PM
THANKS again Trevor for the handy pointers ,will come in handy once it arrives and we get it set up.

Cheers:)

Phil Spencer
28th November 2007, 05:38 PM
Just wondering what folks takes are on in car GPS units what model they have,it's good points /shortcomings etc?...or what they would prefer!

Cheers:)

I have a Navman F series, got it on special from Smiths Dick, have a problem getting lost the dam thing keeps telling me where to go although on some occasions I have been convinced that it has got me lost.

Regards

Phil

munruben
28th November 2007, 09:08 PM
I got the Navman S series Its just the basic one without the camera and its quite good but I find it a slow to refresh. Tells me I am 100 meters from the next turn when I am about 20 meters away. It does the job but if you are like me and want perfection. This isn't the one to choose.

nev25
28th November 2007, 09:17 PM
Anybody had any experience with these
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/New-42-channel-Bluetooth-GPS-RECEIVER-sat-nav-PDA-U1_W0QQitemZ130177802834QQihZ003QQcategoryZ34288QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
or
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/51-Channels-i-blue-820-Bluetooth-GPS-Receiver-Aussie_W0QQitemZ310001557717QQihZ021QQcategoryZ34288QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Or does anyone know how or if they work

journeyman Mick
28th November 2007, 10:32 PM
I bought the TomTom one a few days before my recent trip to Victoria. Managed 2500 stress and hassle free kilometres. It did try to sned me down some dirt roads around WB's place but by simply driving on past it recalculated another route, usually in less than a minute.

Mick

MrFixIt
29th November 2007, 12:28 PM
Hi

I have been using GPS's for a few years now. I began with a Magellan GPS 520 and digital maps on a laptop when I used to go off-road (Range Rover).

I moved up to a Magellan Meridan Platinum when the GPS520 was stolen.

The "newer" type of road map GPS was quite new when we took a trip to the USA. As we were driving through many cities and several US states I purchased some Magellan street maps and naviation software. This allowed route planning and caused the GPS to beep when traffic manouvers were near (lane changes and turns etc). This method was MUCH cheaper than paying (then) $800 plus for the newer gps.

This was quite good and reasonably helpful, however after taking a trip to Queensland last year and using (trying to use) the UBD streets and regional street maps on the pc/pda, THAT was hopeless.

I thought of purchasing a road type gps but considered the cost unjustifiable for a one week trip. I reused my Magellan gps for the first few days.

However partly due to a friends suggestion I DID look at the road type gps and purchased a MIO C510 gps device.

WHAT A DIFFERENCE :2tsup:

To see the road so clearly and the spoken instructions are GREAT expecially when compared to the Magellan (off road) gps :D


It did try to sned me down some dirt roads around WB's place but by simply driving on past it recalculated another route, usually in less than a minute.

The MIO C510 is absolutely terrific. :2tsup: It does a route recalculation within seconds (usually less than 5 seconds) of taking a wrong turn. The device has an SD card (memory) slot that can be used for maps of overseas countries and towns. The slot is NOT used for the Aus Whereis map as this map is BUILT in to the unit itself.

I have had the unit for over a year now and it is still one of the best units out there. The C510 works as my bluetooth hands free unit for my phone, it keeps a list of my contacts and can actually plan a route from my current location to ANY of my contacts. The touch screen allows me to make calls by dialling the number on the screen :2tsup:

It also can be used as a photo viewer and music player. The C510 works great as a hand held gps for walking through towns etc.

I don't think the MIO C510 is available now, here is a review of the product...

http://www.cnet.com.au/pdas/gps/0,239035573,339271689,00.htm

...I think a newer model is available.

Here is MIO's web site in case you want to have a look at what is available.

http://www.mio-tech.com.au/

BTW their tech support is great if you have any questions.

HTH

Cliff Rogers
29th November 2007, 01:55 PM
I'm hoping to get the MIO C520 for my birthday, it has come up in a couple of Computer Mag reviews as best value for money.

I think it is around $450 if you buy it over the net.

mcchaddy
29th November 2007, 02:24 PM
Hi,

I just bought a Hitachi MMP501B, 5" screen with Bluetooth and AV input. My only fault with it is the text to speech voice is fairly ordinary. Its pronunciation of some street names it quiet funny at times.

The screen is excellent and easy to read. It uses destinator software and has the latest sensis maps loaded. It POI's are endless. Red light camera detection, speed zones for schools etc. I use the AV input as a reversing camera.

Cheers

Michael.

journeyman Mick
29th November 2007, 11:50 PM
If you go here (http://www.zazz.com.au/) before midnight tonight you can get a GPS for $261.50 delivered to your door. Not a bad place to check out every morning for cheap gizmos.

Mick

John Saxton
23rd January 2008, 06:05 PM
Just thought that I'd post an update ,have now placed the Tomtom one XL in the missus new car and have bought a newTomtom 920(not available in Oz yet I believe) in the Rodeo.
Sourced it from the States via ebay has a handy little remote comes with it & tried it out yesterday taking the Rodeo up for a canopy fit-up.

Have'nt done any comparisons with it.

Cheers John:)

zathras
23rd January 2008, 07:29 PM
I would not currently recommend any unit that relies on Sensis maps.

The street I live in is not on Sensis V14, but is there on the Navteq maps.
My street has existed for 15 years.

Tom Tom is great to customise with voices etc, but it uses Sensis maps.

Sensis is based a lot on UBD, Navteq on Ausway. That says a lot in itself IMHO.

Wallan is a disgrace on Sensis, And Hidden Valley(Vic) does not exist whatsoever.

So what? you don't want to get to my street?
How many other roads are missing / incorrect?

Cliff Rogers
23rd January 2008, 08:02 PM
I have the MIO C520 & it uses the Sensis R14 maps.
I downloaded the latest update that came out this month & today the bloody thing took me up a closed road in the back blocks of Innisfail. :((

Once I had found the place myself I found that there was a much shorter way in from the other end of the street that I wanted but it didn't even know that there was a road there although it has been there for more than 4 years. :rolleyes:

The other thing I have noticed is that the sound craps out if it gets hot.
Power off & on fixes it but sometimes you don't notice it has cut out.
I have to drive with the A/C vents on the screen to keep it cool on a sunny day. :cool:

ptygmit
23rd January 2008, 08:15 PM
Although not a dedicated GPS, i just changed my phone over to a Nokia 6110 GPS phone, and i am amazed how good it is. I bought a suction mount for the car, and its just like having a small, portable GPS unit. Voice nav is excellent, and the little screen is suprisingly clear. Really pleased with it.

Not bad considering i am now paying less than i was on my old plan.

Big Shed
23rd January 2008, 08:17 PM
If Sensis maps are the same as Whereis then I know they are not too good.

I live in a road not on the Whereis maps, but I can zoom right in on my property in Google Maps.

I haven't got a GPS, I use Google Maps and/or a directory.


If I lstened to another bird telling me where to go I'd never hear the end of it!:rolleyes:

nine fingers
23rd January 2008, 08:46 PM
I have had a Garmin c320 for about 2plus years, just updated the maps.
Never again, I'll keep using the old maps for what there worth. As my computor skills are #%&*@^, I got my son to update the mapping, what a suprise when the bank card statement came, $125 US = $144.39 AUS + transaction fee $3.54 AUS.:~:~:~
The only thing wrong with Garmin is it wants to direct you to main roads and highways all the time. :doh:
Last weekend I had a trip up to Koondrook ,to pick up some KD redgum, shortest way from Geelong was thru Ballan,Daylesford,Bridgewater,Kerang.
Garmin was Melbourne,Bendigo, Kerang,an extra 80 to 100 ks.
Its only good in the city ,if you don't know you way around.:(
nine fingers

Skew ChiDAMN!!
23rd January 2008, 09:18 PM
The only thing wrong with Garmin is it wants to direct you to main roads and highways all the time. :doh:

:yes:

Coming home from Phillip Island, the chauffeur likes to follow the highway onto Stud Road, then Bayswater Rd, Croydon Rd and onto Maroondah Hwy. A fairly simple route, but runs into city traffic and is, IMHO, the long way around.

Personally, once we hit Tooradin I like to go the backroads and cut through berwick. Much less traffic and more direct (as the crow flies) but you gotta know the way.

We've argued over which way is better for a few years now... finally agreeing to disagree.

So, guess who got a new Garmin for Chrissie? We decided to let it decide. Coming into Tooradin, it directed us off on to the back roads. "Aha!" I chortled to myself... until it took us into Pakenham. Over the Freeway, through a few back roads, back over the freeway again, a few more back roads. Then onto the freeway (which we'd passed on-ramps for at each cross-over :roll:) and finally towards Dandenong.

We're both a bit puzzled at this, but decided to let it have it's way. OK, off at Police Road, a couple more back streets, then... Eastlink? is Eastlink? Never heard of it! Then the light dawns, as we pull up to the new, "soon to be opened" freeway section to Ringwood. "Soon to be opened" is the key here. :doh: OK. Hit the "re-route" function, wait a few seconds... it sends us in the general direction of Stud Road. "Fair enough," I thought, until at the next intersection it tried to get us onto the next on-ramp for Eastlink. :roll: "Re-route" again, back to Stud Road and... next intersection it tries for the Eastlink a third time.

That's when we switched it off.

Nice toy, I imagine it'd be handy if you don't know where you're going. But it'd be really, really nice if you could tell it "avoid road such'n'such" when re-routing. [sigh]

It gave us a few laughs though, as it announced the turn-offs in advance. "Turn left at Em Tee Dandenong Road," it advised. [snigger] I wonder how it would have gone if we'd driven through Ess Tee Kilda?

zathras
24th January 2008, 06:58 AM
Skew, I have found tomtom mio and destinator all have the ability to view the itenerary and you can choose to avoid roads / intersections etc.

But you are right, some routes are questionable.

I think the most amusing thing on the tomtom and mio software, that do not have a map for my street, is they plot a startight line course for the nearest road, then back again to go home when I'm already there!

Even better than that, tomtom reckons "route not found" when away from home because my true home location does not exist on the crappy Sensis map!
Mio does this correctly though even though it is still using Sensis maps.

silentC
24th January 2008, 09:00 AM
Well of course they are only going to be as good as the maps. We recently took a Tom Tom One on a 3,800km round trip and found that probably 95% of the time it was spot on.

It doesn't know our road has been extended, so we had to start from 500 metres down the road. It was spot on getting to our friends in Sydney and pretty much everywhere we went while there (the missus used to service ATMs and knows Sydney like the back of her hand). It found the technology park at Belrose and if anyone has ever been there, you'll know it is very difficult to find if you don't know what you're looking for.

It had no problems getting us from Sydney to Coonabarabran, then to Brisbane via Gundawindi - including a backstreet short cut at Moree. Around Brisbane it was fine, as it was up to the Sunshine Coast. On the way to TeeJays though, it didn't know that a motorway exit had been moved a kilometre north, so it let us fly past it. Fortunately, the old exit was still there as a dirt track.

On the way back down the coast, it got confused in a few places where the highway has been straightened - thought we had left the road and were driving in a paddock for awhile. At Port Macquarie, our friends street has been diverted and it didn't know about it.

It's understandable that when road changes happen, it's not going to know about them, unless you can get map updates. I downloaded the latest before we left but obviously there were a few changes not in it. This is going to be an ongoing problem with the maps because roads are constantly changing.

In the US there is a service that allows you access other users' map updates but it's not available here.

In short, I reckon they are probably one of the most useful pieces of technology I have used for a long time.

Groggy
24th January 2008, 09:42 AM
I'm not convinced that you guys are using the GPS's correctly. They are not that much different to a map, you still need to do some work yourself.

For instance, on a long trip I will review the route on my laptop and select the route I want, then copy it to the GPS. From there, the GPS is just the sidekick telling me progress and, if necessary, can be asked for fuel, parking or diversions.

For short routes it is handy to use as a visual guide if you hit an unexpected one way street etc. It is great in the city for parking and sudden diversions.

I have a navigator phone which now does all the short haul stuff within 50k, anything longer I'll check the laptop and select the route.

You should not just blindly accept a route, it doesn't work that way. Most units allow you to select whether to use major roads, direct routes, avoid tolls etc.

DJ’s Timber
24th January 2008, 10:06 AM
I agree with Groggy, I always check the route once I have told my TomTom One where I want to go and if necessary I will pick an alternative route by using either the "Travel via" or "Avoid part of route" selection.

silentC
24th January 2008, 10:25 AM
You should not just blindly accept a route, it doesn't work that way.I've found that 9 out of 10 times it does. It would be pointless me looking at a route from Brisbane to Eumundi because I've never been there. I certainly wouldn't be up on any road changes that have been made recently. Looking at a 2001 road map wouldn't be of any more use.

For me, the advantage of these things is that they get me there one way or another and if I take a wrong turn, they recalculate and get me out of trouble. If I had to research every route, I just wouldn't use it. If you know the way well enough to second guess it, why do you need it at all?

We tried it out getting from Sutherland to the Blue Mountains. We both had our own ideas on the way to go. We asked Tom Tom to give us the quickest route and I'll be blown if it wasn't right.

Nup, I tested it out using the blind faith method over 3 weeks and it didn't let us down.

Wood Borer
24th January 2008, 10:56 AM
I haven't got one of those fangdangled GPS's. I have my trusty old Garmin 12 which takes me to places the new toys will probably never know about like that good camping spot in the middle of Simpson Desert, the start of that track in the forest etc.

When I go on made roads and to weird places like Melbourne, Sydney Brisbane etc, I can easily enter the coordinates for the key intersections as waypoints.

I get the coordinates from this site (Route Site (http://www1.visitvictoria.com/displayObject.cfm/ObjectID.0000B41D-D36D-1A88-8B4680C476A9047C/vvt.vhtml))but there is a trick I accidently discovered one night.

Below the map is a list of "turn left here etc". If you gently glide your mouse over each of the icons, it comes up with a script that includes the latitude and longitude which is handy for people like me with older but more rugged and reliable GPS's.

silentC
24th January 2008, 11:01 AM
Mate that is just way too hard. I'd never use it if I had to do that!

Granted, they're only really useful if you're on gazetted streets, but they do give you lat and long and you can tell it to navigate to a lat and long, so if you give me your secret campsite's coordinates, I'll still be able to find it :)

Wood Borer
24th January 2008, 11:57 AM
Darren,

I have asked people with what I call the boutique GPS's if they can check the coordinates and most say they can't but those who can do not think they can use different types of coordinates.

Most people with these units probably don't know how to read the coordinates and most of those wouldn't know what they meant or what to do with them. And they don't need to understand any of it either.

For people who want to drive around the city mazes, the newer types of GPS are perfect, they have been built for people with virtually no navigation skills, they are simple to use because there are limited options and they have simple to interpret screens.

For more critical navigation applications such as bush walking, rescue, fire fighting, 4wd, boating (both coastal and offshore) etc the new idiot proof GPS's are far from ideal apart from using as a wheel chock or a weight to hold down a chart in rough seas.

Horses for courses.

I am looking at getting a later model GPS where I can load in my own maps and routes plus use it in the city to find some elusive one way street in a new suburb. The top line Garmins look the part.

In the meantime, I use my method with my old GPS and it works fine for me, and as a side benefit, it discourages me from visiting the cities.

Groggy
24th January 2008, 12:01 PM
A friend of mine is a 4wd nut and loads topographic maps into his GPS plus satellite images. There is really no limit to what you can do, provided you are careful in selecting the GPS in the first place.

I can load them into my Streetpilot but haven't found the need yet.

silentC
24th January 2008, 12:08 PM
For bush walking, I use a 1:25000 topographical map and a compass. A GPS would be handy for getting your present lat and long, which the Tom Tom can do, but obviously it would be no use for route planning. I plan to take it with me next time to try it out.

Likewise, for navigating off road, I don't suppose they'd be much use other than to tell you where you are right now. It would then be up to you to use that information in conjunction with you map. I understand that a proper off road or bush walking GPS allows you to input breadcrumbs so you can retrace your steps easily.

But for driving around in unfamiliar cities (or even familiar ones as we found out) these gadgets cannot be beat. Locating ATMs, servos and shopping centres, even on foot. Getting a rough estimate of how long a trip will take. Monitoring your speed and getting warnings when you exceed the limit, or when you are approaching a red light camera or a fixed speed camera. We found it invaluable. But I have no need for one in my daily life. That's why I borrowed my Dad's :wink:

Groggy
24th January 2008, 12:12 PM
Like I said, it depends on the GPS. The Garmin Streetpilot does all that and was about the same price as other units. If necessary you can remove it from the vehicle and walk with it too (clearly not the preferred method but it can be done). The next step in the GPS's should be the ability to download data for the area you are in. I can only hope it isn't by NextG!

Cliff Rogers
24th January 2008, 12:12 PM
I use mine to find places that I have never been to, that is why I ended up on a closed road yesterday. :~

I have been driving around North Queensland for 20 years so I know most of the best ways & short cuts but the GPS has already been helpful in finding a couple of short cuts that I didn't know about. :2tsup:

Groggy
24th January 2008, 12:18 PM
I have been driving around North Queensland for 20 years so I know most of the best ways & short cuts but the GPS has already been helpful in finding a couple of short cuts that I didn't know about. :2tsup:True. One of the things I enjoy with the GPS is the ability to try a new route when I have the time spare and not have to worry about getting back on track. My phone has brought me through Melbourne in two ways I like now. You don't have to stress over finding a park, determining where you are then figuring out how to get home.

silentC
24th January 2008, 12:21 PM
I used the Where Am I function on it just now and it gives the lat and long in decimal degrees. Using Navigate To... | Latitude Longitude I can then enter a destination in either decimal degrees or degrees and minutes. Just tried it to navigate to Merimbula Airport (the lat and long in my location) and it took me there by road (naturally) but it was correct. Well, I didn't actually drive there but it has this neat Route Demo mode that walks you through the route.

Cliff Rogers
24th January 2008, 12:38 PM
The MIO can do a 'fly over' and you can enter the address as Lat.Long

Wood Borer
24th January 2008, 02:24 PM
For bush walking, I use a 1:25000 topographical map and a compass.

These maps are becoming more difficult to obtain as they are being phased out.

I just bought a map package on a couple of CDs which is great because you can print out maps of the areas you plan on visiting. They are topographical maps and can be printed in relief. You can change the scale etc to suit your needs.

You can do a flyover and upload them to your GPS (not mine because of it's age and display).

Does anyone know if you can have a 3D view of the topography on the latest GPS's?

It would be handy feature when 4WDing or bushwalking because you could see the terrain ahead and estimate the difficulty, plan camping spots plus estimate radio or mobile range.

Cliff Rogers
24th January 2008, 02:34 PM
...Does anyone know if you can have a 3D view of the topography on the latest GPS's?....
Mine has a 3D view but it flattens the terrain. :cool:
If you look at the sat page on it, it will tell you your height but not while you are looking at the map.

clubbyr8
24th January 2008, 03:34 PM
Just got a Garmin nuvi 760 to replace my Navman icn510 (as Navman won't update the maps). This thing is so much better than the Navman.

Finds satellites very quickly (the Navman could take up to 30 minutes even if you reset the GPS).
Re-calculates in seconds (much quicker than the Navman).
Has TTS (text to speech) where it announces the name of the road to turn into.
Has a pedestrian mode.
Has text announcement for school zones, red light and speed cameras.
Has a trip computer that provides stats on any trip.
Has blue tooth for mobile connectivity.
Plus other features I haven't tried yet.

All in all, a vast improvement over the old Navman and was about $400 cheaper than the Navman.

MrFixIt
24th January 2008, 03:50 PM
Hi


I'm not convinced that you guys are using the GPS's correctly.

Huh? :oo:


They are not that much different to a map, you still need to do some work yourself.

Well, yes I guess IFyou REALLY want to! but it's not really necessary. :rolleyes:


For instance, on a long trip I will review the route on my laptop and select the route I want, then copy it to the GPS.

Why on earth (pardon the pun) would you WANT to do that? Perhaps there is merit in this approach if you NEED to create a "holiday" map with poi's to visit? In general the laptop maps, which are usually harder to find, would be NO better than a set of maps in the GPS. Most of the GPS's have the sensis whereis maps v13 (obviously depending on the age of the GPS).

The GPS analyses many roads when calculating the route, to find your choice of quickest, shortest or even a walking route. I am amazed that you would waste YOUR time examining maps that (usually) the GPS has stored within its memory and DOES ALL THE WORK FOR YOU!


From there, the GPS is just the sidekick telling me progress and, if necessary, can be asked for fuel, parking or diversions.

Why bother? If you have used the map yourself, you would have already found out where the fuel and parking is - a normal part of trip planning by MAP.


For short routes it is handy to use as a visual guide if you hit an unexpected one way street etc.

Huh! if use the GPS in the first place you don't NORMALLY hit an unexpected one way street



It is great in the city for parking and sudden diversions.

Certainly.


I have a navigator phone which now does all the short haul stuff within 50k, anything longer I'll check the laptop and select the route.

You must be kidding me :) My GPS as I expect do all the other GPS's can plot a route within seconds that will take me from Perth to Brisbane! How do I know this? Because I did that only three days ago. I also decided to add via points to Adelaide and Melbourne and that took a matter of a few seconds to recalculate the new route. Why would I want to look at all those maps to figure that out ?


You should not just blindly accept a route, it doesn't work that way.

:doh:

Of course it does, why do you think they are SOOOOOO USEFUL!

Sure there will always be situations where the roads have changed and the maps do not reflect this, those very same changes would not be in your laptop maps either, BUT that's the whole point of using the GPS in the first place, the GPS can find another route FOR YOU.

What are you going to do? If your patiently reviewed and calculated route has an upset of some sort? Whip out the laptop on the passenger seat and re-examine the road map? I don't think so.


Most units allow you to select whether to use major roads, direct routes, avoid tolls etc.

Of course, because they have that info in their memory and can quickly recalculate a new route. They can do this ON THE FLY and ON THE SPOT, NO laptop required and no painstaking brainpower needed.

No offence meant in this post :2tsup:

Groggy
24th January 2008, 05:13 PM
Does anyone know if you can have a 3D view of the topography on the latest GPS's?I have seen software that takes in topo maps and makes a 3d projection once you give it a start point. That was a while ago so there must be much better software available now.

Groggy
24th January 2008, 06:07 PM
Well, yes I guess IFyou REALLY want to! but it's not really necessary. :rolleyes:In context, my comments were in relation to those complaining the GPS's took them via occasional 'funny routes'. If you are not going to be upset when something happens like that then sure, otherwise it is necessary.

Why on earth (pardon the pun) would you WANT to do that? Perhaps there is merit in this approach if you NEED to create a "holiday" map with poi's to visit? In general the laptop maps, which are usually harder to find, would be NO better than a set of maps in the GPS. Most of the GPS's have the sensis whereis maps v13 (obviously depending on the age of the GPS).The maps on my laptop are the same maps in the GPS and they synchronise over USB. I can download and upload routes, maps (topo, coastal, satellite and street) and tracks, history and a bunch of other data. It isn't hard. I can also hook the GPS to the laptop if I want and have a 17" screen for the GPS.


The GPS analyses many roads when calculating the route, to find your choice of quickest, shortest or even a walking route. I am amazed that you would waste YOUR time examining maps that (usually) the GPS has stored within its memory and DOES ALL THE WORK FOR YOU!False logic there. It is not a waste of my time to check the route, it saves me time. Going out to Warburton the other week I didn't check the route and the dopey GPS took a detour for about ten minutes then rejoined the same road 2kms further on :doh: . So a two minute check would have found that, especially on a bigger screen where I can see the entire trip in detail. Last year on a trip to Adelaide I saved 1/2 an hour on the GPS recommended route by taking a secondary road instead of highway.

Why bother? If you have used the map yourself, you would have already found out where the fuel and parking is - a normal part of trip planning by MAP. No, for the reason explained above, the map is the same as the GPS map (plus I generally do not plan fuel stops).

Huh! if use the GPS in the first place you don't NORMALLY hit an unexpected one way streetUsing the GPS as a visual guide on short routes means it is not actively running the route, just tracking the current position. Having it on gives you an opportunity to see what options are available if conditions change. Roadworks frequently change things and the GPS maps are not aware of them, nor new roads.

You must be kidding me :) My GPS as I expect do all the other GPS's can plot a route within seconds that will take me from Perth to Brisbane! How do I know this? Because I did that only three days ago. I also decided to add via points to Adelaide and Melbourne and that took a matter of a few seconds to recalculate the new route. Why would I want to look at all those maps to figure that out ?Again this assumes other maps are involved. I am looking at the same GPS maps except on the laptop in a much bigger screen.


:doh:


Of course it does, why do you think they are SOOOOOO USEFUL!

Sure there will always be situations where the roads have changed and the maps do not reflect this, those very same changes would not be in your laptop maps either, BUT that's the whole point of using the GPS in the first place, the GPS can find another route FOR YOU.I guess you have never come across a private road that is open to the public? Depending on your unit and map set, mine will not allow you to use the private road and will route you around it. You will be none the wiser if in unknown areas. A look on a bigger map will show an unexplained 'semi-circle' in the route. Similarly, Sensis maps can have unexplained detours, they are getting there, but the map software is not 100%.


Of course, because they have that info in their memory and can quickly recalculate a new route. They can do this ON THE FLY and ON THE SPOT, NO laptop required and no painstaking brainpower needed.

My point is that you need to intervene to tell the unit not to take certain routes. My experience with GPS is to use it as a tool and not to blindly trust it. I have not come across an error free unit in any price range, including aviation units, they are great - but not infallible.

silentC
24th January 2008, 06:15 PM
I don't know Groggy, there's a lot of assumptions there mate. If I knew the roads well enough to be able to anticipate time-saving diversions and to be aware of the presence of private roads, I doubt I would need a GPS.

All I can do is repeat that over 3 weeks and about 3,800km we found the thing indispensable and we had no other form of map or directory with us. I was quite happy to follow it blindly and accept the rare occasion that we were lead astray. The handful of times where I knew the quickest route it was able to select it.

It falls down when the maps are out of date - but that is no different to driving with a hard copy map. If you don't know about the changes and plan your route with the map, you are going to go wrong. The benefit of the GPS is that when it happens, it can quickly come up with an alternative without you having to stop.

And it speaks in such a lovely Irish accent too. Or even in Spanish, Russian or Hungarian if you're that way inclined.

Groggy
24th January 2008, 06:29 PM
I don't know Groggy, there's a lot of assumptions there mate. If I knew the roads well enough to be able to anticipate time-saving diversions and to be aware of the presence of private roads, I doubt I would need a GPS.

What assumptions :?. I am talking about looking at the screen and seeing clearly a more direct route. The GPS takes the long way because it is freeway, the secondary road was much shorter. It stands out clearly on a larger screen but not in a tiny screen because as you zoom out the detail disappears and you can't see the alternatives.

In the event of a private road you see the route change for no apparent reason (these are rare though).


All I can do is repeat that over 3 weeks and about 3,800km we found the thing indispensable and we had no other form of map or directory with us. I was quite happy to follow it blindly and accept the rare occasion that we were lead astray. The handful of times where I knew the quickest route it was able to select it.

Thank you. As I have been saying, if you are happy to accept the occasional error there is no need for this. If you do not want the errors then closer management is required.


It falls down when the maps are out of date - but that is no different to driving with a hard copy map. If you don't know about the changes and plan your route with the map, you are going to go wrong. The benefit of the GPS is that when it happens, it can quickly come up with an alternative without you having to stop.

And it speaks in such a lovely Irish accent too. Or even in Spanish, Russian or Hungarian if you're that way inclined.
I kind of miss my previous navigation system that used to say "you should have turned back there", and "can you pull over for a sec..." (not :U )

DavidG
24th January 2008, 08:00 PM
Sorry for cutting in but now we have all the gps experts together I have a request please.

I live in Canberra. My wife if direction challenged.
What CHEAP gps would be good for her to find her way around in Canberra.
Like to friends places and meetings etc.

Groggy
24th January 2008, 08:06 PM
The Tom Toms are very popular for city navigation and competitively priced. The screen is fairly large and easy to see. There are a host of others around that are probably just as good.

MrFixIt
24th January 2008, 08:13 PM
Hi


I haven't got one of those fangdangled GPS's. I have my trusty old Garmin 12 which takes me to places the new toys will probably never know about like that good camping spot in the middle of Simpson Desert, the start of that track in the forest etc.

When I go on made roads and to weird places like Melbourne, Sydney Brisbane etc, I can easily enter the coordinates for the key intersections as waypoints.

I get the coordinates from this site (Route Site (http://www1.visitvictoria.com/displayObject.cfm/ObjectID.0000B41D-D36D-1A88-8B4680C476A9047C/vvt.vhtml))but there is a trick I accidently discovered one night.

Below the map is a list of "turn left here etc". If you gently glide your mouse over each of the icons, it comes up with a script that includes the latitude and longitude which is handy for people like me with older but more rugged and reliable GPS's.

That's WAAAAY to hard - these days :)

Let me tell you a (GPS) story. It's a little bit long but it is relevant and I hope interesting for some (hopefully all :) )

I am a GPS user from WAAAAY back. In 2000 I had my Magellan GPS 520 an off road GPS unit. A pc and set of topo maps were needed to make the unit really effective. I used it many times with great success to plot and then take 4wd club members on an off road trip.

When this unit was stolen I used the opportunity to upgrade to a Magellan Meridian Gold. This was (still is, I still have it) a GOOD unit. This GPS came with a good base map of Australian roads and could still work VERY well off road. This GPS used SD cards for memory and map storage of plotted poi's tracks etc. This all tied in well with OziExplorer :2tsup:

So when I went to the USA/Canada/Alaska for a holiday (nearly two years ago now) I thought about buying a new GPS, you know the *ROAD* kind :D

I chose not to go through the then $800-$900 purchase of a new GPS and all that would entail with trying to convince SWMBO why I needed another GPS when I had a perfectly GOOD GPS already :D - you all know what SWMBO's are like :2tsup:

I decided that I would get the North American Streets and Maps for the Magellan Meridian GPS - that cost me US$145 inc shipping.

Now this set of maps was VERY good and it DID allow me to use auto routing - this was SOMETHING SPECIAL on those GPS's and (AFAIK) only availablefor the USA.

NOW, to use this effectively *I* had to copy the sections of maps that I thought I would need for travelling the west coast/mid west of the US and store them on the SD card I was going to use in the GPS.

This method was reasonably effetive, but the prompting info from the GPS was nothing but a LIMITED series of beeps that caused you to look at the screen to then decipher the icon shown on the display.

Now for a total of THREE WEEKS and 5000kms driving, I had passed up on the idea of using the "road" type or autorouting GPS's for this? The people we were travelling with were NOT impressed, partly because they didn't trust it and partly because I was initially unfamiliar with the operation/beeps/icons and made a couple of minor wrong turns.

Personally I found it quite useful, though I kept its usefulness to myself and I used it while I was driving to see what the road ahead was like, and to keep a check on the speed of the other (occasional) driver.

A couple of months after the USA trip we went to Queensland Gold Coast. I took the ever present Magellan GPS to use in the hire car - though in Oz the is NO autorouting so the GPS became more or less a map I could refer to to see what road to use then watch the 16 shades of gray display to see where I was going.

This was only just useful for ON road navigation and I still had to refer to the COLOURED road map book that came with the hire car - it was SOOOO much quicker to find a street :2tsup:

Now for the main part of this long winded tale.

The friend we visted (in Qld) was about to buy himself a TomTom GPS. He said that they were on special for $150 (old model clearance). Ok *I* was interested at THAT price.

So of I go to Harvey Normans - they had sold out a week ago.

Hmmm, so I was there (at HN) and the saleman showed me a few of the others. So I stood there for some time (without the salesman, I am intelligent enough to figure it all out for myself) and examined the various models.

So after some time I came away with the IDEA of purchasing a Mio C510, complete of course with maps for the whole of OZ (including ALL intersections, NO coordinates required :wink: ) and the normal expected features of voice prompt, 2D/3D display etc, etc, etc. Oh, and the bluetooth hands free. (it also happens to be an mp3 player and photo viewer but I have the iPod for that :D )

The next day I went back and bought one at HN's special price for the remaining 5 days in Qld.

Well I have got to say that GPS leaves the Magellan for dead in ON road navigation. Having to drive around quite some distance into the Qld country side to places I had never been and therefore along unfamiliar roads at night in the wet it WAS DEFINITELY the best thing since sliced bread.

Turn here, turn there, keep to the left, take second exit etc,etc. BRILLIANT! :2tsup: :2tsup: (four thumbs up).

SWMBO who does not understand technology and is usually dismayed at my new *ubeaut* hi tech stuff, NOW thought this do-dad was worth every cent of its $759 price. Gee haven't they come down in price!

So, in just a few words, the ON road GPS beats the OFF road GPS by MILES (pun intended). Go out and get one they're GREAT :2tsup:

MrFixIt
24th January 2008, 08:48 PM
What assumptions :?. I am talking about looking at the screen and seeing clearly a more direct route. The GPS takes the long way because it is freeway, the secondary road was much shorter. It stands out clearly on a larger screen but not in a tiny screen because as you zoom out the detail disappears and you can't see the alternatives.

The GPS take the LONG way because of the user selected choices. Selecting "quickest" WILL usually take you in a different direction than the SHORTEST route. If YOU select the shortest route the GPS will probably select the same route as you select by manual processes.


In the event of a private road you see the route change for no apparent reason (these are rare though).



Thank you. As I have been saying, if you are happy to accept the occasional error there is no need for this. If you do not want the errors then closer management is required.

If you are using the same maps (on the laptop) then you will have the same errors. If by choice you can select some alternative on the laptop, then THAT SAME alternative is available on the GPS.

What you are saying is that if you don't want errors then check the whole route yourself. even IF no errors were to occur. Whereas with the GPS 99% of the time you do not have to chack anything and on the VERY rare occasion there is an error, the GPS can resolve the error FOR you.

After using GPS's for 8 years with both OFF road and ON road experience and knowing how accurate and convenient they are, :2tsup: you will never convince me to doubt the GPS system and use a map. :D

Don't forget the US military uses the GPS system to put rockets down SMALL chimneys!

BTW What gps and maps are you using with the laptop? I need to change the now quite old and somewhat outdated navigation system in my 2000 Range Rover. I am going to install a touch screen, replacing the standard RR nav screen and connect this via USB to a laptop conveniently stored in the back. I intend to use a bluetooth GPS device to enable me to do autorouting but I have not yet been able to find some suitable software and maps. I don't want to use OziExplorer for ON road trips. The best I know of so far is the impending April release of Garmin Mobile PC, that I believe will provide the full autorouting etc nut on a laptop sized screen.

Thanks for any info you can provide

Groggy
24th January 2008, 11:04 PM
Have taken the discussion to PMs to avoid cluttering the thread further.

silentC
25th January 2008, 09:14 AM
What assumptions
That people have the knowledge of the road to be able to do a better job of selecting a route than the GPS. I still argue that if you can do that, there's hardly any point in switching the thing on.

By the way, mine will select the quickest route or the shortest route or the route that avoids tolls or a walking route etc. The shortest by distance is not necessarily the quickest as it appears on the map and it has an algorithm for working that out somehow. If I just look at a map overview, I might be tempted to take what appears to be the shortest route, without the knowledge of the local conditions required to say if it is actually the quickest. This is especially true in cities.

HappyHammer
25th January 2008, 09:25 AM
A friend of mine is a 4wd nut and loads topographic maps into his GPS plus satellite images. There is really no limit to what you can do, provided you are careful in selecting the GPS in the first place.

I can load them into my Streetpilot but haven't found the need yet.
I'd like to get all the dirt roads in the National Parks & State Forests. Anyone know if they're available on the Tom Tom?

HH.

Wood Borer
25th January 2008, 09:25 AM
Here is something you may wish to try on your GPS's.

On the route planner site I asked it for the shortest route between Oodnadatta and Birdsville. See it's ridiculous suggestion in the attachment.

I attempt to cross the Simpson each year in late March and you would choose either the French Line or the Rig Road so this is a very real example for me and would help determine my decision to upgrade to a newer GPS.

The "Road GPS's" I would rarely use as I know my way around Melbourne and I have no intention of visiting any of the other Capital cities - been there and done that too many times for work.

How does your GPS advise you to go between Oodnadatta and Birdsville? If your answer doesn't advise you to fuel at Mt Dare and camp at Dalhousie Springs then it falls short of my requirements.

Groggy
25th January 2008, 09:34 AM
That people have the knowledge of the road to be able to do a better job of selecting a route than the GPS. I still argue that if you can do that, there's hardly any point in switching the thing on.

Not quite what I am suggesting. I *check* the route on the laptop, I don't write the whole thing from scratch unless working out a delivery route or something like that. The check is usually just a quick scan to see if there are anomalies, these are very easy to detect on a big screen and only takes seconds. Again, this is only for long trips.

By the way, mine will select the quickest route or the shortest route or the route that avoids tolls or a walking route etc. The shortest by distance is not necessarily the quickest as it appears on the map and it has an algorithm for working that out somehow. If I just look at a map overview, I might be tempted to take what appears to be the shortest route, without the knowledge of the local conditions required to say if it is actually the quickest. This is especially true in cities.

Most units have had those functions as standard for years. What do you do if you go on a long trip and forget you have "avoid tolls" set? I don't think I would want to traverse Sydney blindly avoiding tolls in peak hour, a scan beforehand would have made it pretty clear there was something amiss. This is only a very simple example though. For me and the way I travel, I have found it pays to do a quick check, rather than try to recover AFTER some problem is found.

silentC
25th January 2008, 09:46 AM
I was just trying to make the point that the quickest route is not necessarily the shortest as it appears on the map and the unit makes this distinction (if you tell it to). Reading a flat map without local knowledge, I would not be able to do the same. Distance-wise from here to Sydney, the coast road is shorter, but the quickest route is inland because of the motorway. If I was looking at a road map, I would be tempted to travel up the coast and not even consider the Hume, but good old Tom Tom dialled that up as the first choice.

I leave it on Quickest Route all the time. If there are tolls, it warns you and you can at that point ask it to give you an alternative avoiding the tolls. It shows you the new route time and distance compared to the old and you can revert or accept the new route. Fantastic gadgets :)

It's not the idea of checking the route that I'm objecting to - you're free to do that if you want, it's your assertion that those of us blindy accepting the route are not using these units correctly. I think this is exactly how they should be used, but you always have the option to manually check it yourself if you want.

Groggy
25th January 2008, 10:06 AM
I wouldn't be trusting my old clunker for this trip, or any other new one for that matter.

silentC
25th January 2008, 10:09 AM
What's the problem? There's only one road :)

I think that sort of trip is outside the scope of these things. If you only took a Tom Tom on a trip like that and were never seen again, nobody would be surprised.

Groggy
25th January 2008, 10:31 AM
Six people leave Oodnadatta for Birdsville, each with their own unit, each unit gives a slightly different route - why? Each person is trusting their unit. You can see that Rob's unit and my unit give two very different routes between Oodnadatta and Birdsville - whose is correct? Mine is shorter. Neither in this case, human intervention and assessment is clearly required.

By using the GPS the wrong way I was questioning (in my mind) the blind trust put in their output. There have already been a number of statements by others where they had issues with the units, I'm simply saying a common sense check should be applied. The units are quite accurate for positioning but are not infallible with route creation. :shrug:

EDIT: Just saw your reply to Rob. Change the example above for a trip from a suburb in Melbourne to a Sydney or Adelaide suburb, variations would still be there.

Out of interest I ran the route from you to Sydney (Opera House). Garmin says take the coast road. Autorouting on and fastest time selected.

silentC
25th January 2008, 10:42 AM
We seem to be going around in circles. Maybe we need a navigator to find a way out of this argument :)

What I'm saying is that, without local knowledge of the roads, I can't know beforehand that the GPS has got it wrong, so it's fairly pointless giving it any more than the most cursory of glances before setting off, because I'm not equipped with the knowledge I need to correct any problems at the outset.

If I was able to do that, I wouldn't need the GPS. The only alternative for me is to put my faith in it and it's ability to get me where I want to go one way or another, hopefully in the quickest fashion, road changes and my own capability to follow the instructions given notwithstanding.

People often give me directions and I've forgotten them after the first right turn (are you reading this Peter?). I simply dial up where I want to go, and it tells me. If I miss a turn or the turn doesn't exist, the Tom Tom, rather than flying into a panic, calmly recalculates a new course on the spot. "Never mind", it says in its lilting Irish accent, "in eight hundred metres, turn left, then go through the rindabite, second exit". It is so confident and calming, you can't help but put your faith in it. I wish they were available for more things in life :)

Big Shed
25th January 2008, 10:49 AM
Let me say first of all that I don't own a GPS, nor have I ever used one.

However, if they work the same as Whereis and Google Maps on the web then I wouldn't put blind faith in them either.

To give you an example, I needed to go to Mt Gambier in SA from Bendigo. I asked Whereis for a suggested route and it tried to send me down to Ballarat then on the Western Hwy to Arrarat, then Hamilton and Mt Gambier. I raised my eyebrows at this and asked Google Maps.

It came up with Bendigo-Maryborough-Avoca-Arrarat-Hamilton-Mt Gambier, shorter by some 80kms! BTW it was the route I had selected by looking at one those "old fashioned" things called a map.

I had a similar experience when I asked for directions to Lara from Bendigo.

So, as I said if these new fangled GPSs work on the Whereis and Google maps, then I certainly wouldn't have blind faith in them, I'd still be checking against a map or other knowledge.

silentC
25th January 2008, 11:03 AM
No they are not the same as Whereis.

OK, I'm over this argument. Obviously there are going to be people who don't trust them, I'm not going to try and convince you. If you don't trust them, then don't buy one. Just don't tell me that I'm using mine incorrectly or that I shouldn't put blind faith in it and then we'll all be happy, OK?

:p

Groggy
25th January 2008, 11:14 AM
Here is an actual example (Kiwibrucee was with me at the time) of a GPS getting it clearly wrong. Look at Launching Place, the purple is the route taken as told by the GPS. If I had looked at the route on the laptop - where the screenshot is from - it would have been clear there was something funny there and I could have corrected it. This is only a few kilometers and a few minutes, but is the only example I have with a member as witness.

Wood Borer
25th January 2008, 11:15 AM
Roughly the track across the Simpson I have drawn in red on Groggy's map.

The internet and the GPS both did not offer the French Line or the Rig Rd.

It does not surprise me, these are tools for navigating around cities and regional areas not for areas a bit more remote.

To go into the Simpson with only a Road type GPS expecting to navigate would be foolish. You need maps, compass and a GPS like mine or one of the new ones where you can upload your maps. I would not rely solely on any GPS out there.

As there are only about 3 crossroads out there, it would be difficult to get lost but it is good to check your progress and confirm you are on the track using my GPS and maps.

This has been a very interesting thread.

I definitely won't be buying a Road GPS and for the minor inconvenience of wasting a minute here and there with my PC and old GPS I will not be getting lost.

If I was regularly driving in built up areas (cities and large towns) that were unfamiliar to me then I think one of the Road type GPS's would be quite handy.

Who decides what maps are available, some indoors geek or some con artist marketing wimp? Are any of them aussies?

silentC
25th January 2008, 11:24 AM
Here is an actual example
I just plugged in a route from Woori Yallup to Yarra Junction and it took me straight through using your route marked with the red line.

So maybe the problem here is not GPS in general but your unit in particular?

silentC
25th January 2008, 11:27 AM
Out of interest I ran the route from you to Sydney (Opera House). Garmin says take the coast road. Autorouting on and fastest time selected.
I asked Tom Tom for a route to Sydney CBD and it goes via Canberra, which is 6:00 hours - 522km. Calculate alternative gives the coast at 6:19 hours - 454km.

silentC
25th January 2008, 11:32 AM
To give you an example, I needed to go to Mt Gambier in SA from Bendigo. I asked Whereis for a suggested route and it tried to send me down to Ballarat then on the Western Hwy to Arrarat, then Hamilton and Mt Gambier. I raised my eyebrows at this and asked Google Maps.

It came up with Bendigo-Maryborough-Avoca-Arrarat-Hamilton-Mt Gambier, shorter by some 80kms! BTW it was the route I had selected by looking at one those "old fashioned" things called a map.

Tom Tom gave me the Bendigo-Maryborough-Avoca-Arrarat-Hamilton-Mt Gambier first time.

Groggy
25th January 2008, 11:34 AM
I just plugged in a route from Woori Yallup to Yarra Junction and it took me straight through using your route marked with the red line.

So maybe the problem here is not GPS in general but your unit in particular?:gaah: It is an example for a particular GPS (phone) I used for the purpose of illustrating how quickly errors can be seen on the screen. My wife's Tom Tom unit had no problem and the Streetpilot also does not repeat the error.

This is why I said "If I had looked at the route on the laptop - where the screenshot is from - it would have been clear there was something funny there and I could have corrected it."

The point is that ALL units will have errors in them somewhere and a quick check on a larger screen makes any error pretty clear. Any error found on a given unit is unlikely to be found on other units unless they use the same software.

DJ’s Timber
25th January 2008, 11:37 AM
Here is an actual example (Kiwibrucee was with me at the time) of a GPS getting it clearly wrong. Look at Launching Place, the purple is the route taken as told by the GPS. If I had looked at the route on the laptop - where the screenshot is from - it would have been clear there was something funny there and I could have corrected it. This is only a few kilometers and a few minutes, but is the only example I have with a member as witness.

A GPS that I was trying out for a friend tried to send me on that exact route too Groggy. The short bit of Hwy between the 2 turnoff points just did not exist on the GPS, whereas I knew better as I have travelled that bit of Hwy hundreds of times to get home.

That is a very good example of what some GPS's can do if you don't give the route a check over before commencing on the trip.

Edit: I should also add that my TomTom One doesn't try to send me off the Hwy either

silentC
25th January 2008, 11:45 AM
a quick check on a larger screen makes any error pretty clear
I disagree. Yes, in that particular case, it might stand out like dog bollocks but I'm willing to bet that there are hundreds if not thousands of cases where what appears on a flat map to be the straightest, most direct route, is in fact the slowest. You must at least concede that - surely the Merimbula to Sydney route proves it. And if you do concede that, you must also concede that if you don't know the road, then you wont be able to determine that just by looking at the shape of the route. You would need to know the local conditions all along each route. So given that, on what other basis can you possibly select a better route? Further, if you know the road well enough to be able to select the best route yourself, why do you need a GPS?

And once again, let me point out that I am not criticising you for wanting to manually check the route yourself, which is fine by me. I am disputing your assertion from page two that putting blind faith, as you put it, in the calculated route is the incorrect way to use these devices. I believe that is exactly what you are expected to do, otherwise the technology is pointless.

Groggy
25th January 2008, 11:52 AM
I asked Tom Tom for a route to Sydney CBD and it goes via Canberra, which is 6:00 hours - 522km. Calculate alternative gives the coast at 6:19 hours - 454km.The coastal route is showing 452km and 5hours 19 minutes 40 seconds.

The Canberra route shows 526km and 5hours 46 minutes 13 seconds.

At this point I think I would be losing trust in both units and investigating further.

silentC
25th January 2008, 11:59 AM
I know from 20 years experience that the Hume route is quicker if you are going into town, to the western suburbs or to the northern suburbs. If you are going to the south, the coast road is quicker and Tom Tom confirms it.

So far on the routes I have travelled that I have good knowledge of, it has been on the money. I have no reason to believe it will do a worse job than I would on the routes I don't know.

Groggy
25th January 2008, 12:13 PM
Silent, I think there is enough discussion here from both sides for readers to decide whether to use blind faith or maybe to check it over for themselves on longer trips. Clearly each of us won't be swayed from our positions.

Big Shed
25th January 2008, 12:16 PM
Can I ask a question here?

I used to travel to Perth every 2 months for a week on business. Now at that stage Perth had a funny one way system of streets/raods around the CBD, in the morning they would go one way , in the afternoon they would go in the opposite way. Very interesting for a first time visitor, I tried to go back to my hotel in Hay Street the same way I left in the morning, but didn't know about this interesting local phenomenon.

My question is, how would a GPS cope with this, assuming the system is till in place.

Do these GPS units know about one way streets, in particular one way streets that change direction?

Adelaide has one of these as well, the Southern "Express" Way, only in to the city in the morning, only out of the city in the afternoon.

So how do the GPS units cope?

silentC
25th January 2008, 12:26 PM
whether to use blind faith or maybe to check it over for themselves
Let's rephrase that to:

"whether we should put our faith in the technology in lieu of personal experience of the route or be distrustful of the technology despite the lack of personal experience of the route".

Yep, that sounds better. "Blind faith" implies ignorance or foolishness and I'm sorry but I cannot accept that. I will in return restrain myself from using the term 'luddite' :wink:

Dirty Doogie
25th January 2008, 12:42 PM
I can test your GPS systems for you - free ! Your location is Hastings St Noosa heads QLD - your destination is Lanyana way , Noosa Heads - I would be very curious to know what route the GPS systems tell ppl to go.

DavidG
25th January 2008, 12:47 PM
Thanks guys. Just bought a Tomtom one V3 for the directionally challanged wife.
I don't think I will need to check her routes as she will be within Canberra only.

Looks like I should check any major trips just incase.

But whoever blindly trusts a computer is going to end up in the wrong place. A few checks are easy and will not go astray.


ps some people need to get back to wood work.:U

DJ’s Timber
25th January 2008, 01:03 PM
I can test your GPS systems for you - free ! Your location is Hastings St Noosa heads QLD - your destination is Lanyana way , Noosa Heads - I would be very curious to know what route the GPS systems tell ppl to go.

My TomTom One says to turn right at Noosa Drive, left on to Sunshine Beach Road, right on to Cooyar Street and then right into Lanyana Way. 5min travel time and 2.4km.

That was using house number 9 at Hastings St and 9 also at Lanyana Way.

silentC
25th January 2008, 01:05 PM
I can test your GPS systems for you - free ! Your location is Hastings St Noosa heads QLD - your destination is Lanyana way , Noosa Heads - I would be very curious to know what route the GPS systems tell ppl to go.
Hastings Street
Left at the roundabout onto Noosa Drive
Straight at the roundabout
Straight at the roundabout
Left at the roundabout onto Sunshine Beach Road
Right at the roundabout onto Cooyar Street
Right at the roundabout onto Lanyana Way

silentC
25th January 2008, 01:11 PM
But whoever blindly trusts a computer is going to end up in the wrong place.Thing is, you don't. It gets you there. Every time. It might not be the original route, but it gets you there. Hasn't failed me yet, even when the street I wanted had been diverted and the original entrance now a house. Reading Street Port Macquarie.

The only time it actually led us astray was when I had changed the destination and forgotten to reset it. Fortunately I realised before we got too far in the wrong direction - my fault not the GPS.

And please stop using the world 'blindly'. You need to credit us with a bit more intelligence than that. It's also offensive to the visually impaired. :)

My faith in it is based on the fact that it has agreed with me on the routes I know and has not gotten me lost on the routes I don't. It's a faith based on observation, not blind optimism.

Dirty Doogie
25th January 2008, 01:17 PM
Hey thats cool! Dj and Silent C - both ur gps in top form - Over the xmas break certain GPS were sending ppl up steep hills near the lookout (circuitous but actually faster in holiday traffic) and in the rain they would go off the road and down a bank.

silentC
25th January 2008, 01:24 PM
I don't know much about how the algorithms work but for it to be effective you'd have to imagine that it takes into account time of day and day of week. It would be interesting to see how much logic is actually in there and how much is just hard coded from people driving around and timing their trips etc.

It tends to overestimate the duration. For example the 6:00 quoted from here to Sydney is actually more like 5:30 - but I sit on just over the speed limit all the way. I don't think it factors in rest stops either.

However, we stopped at Canberra for dinner on the way up and as we walked out to the car, it was saying we'd arrive at Sydney at 10:48. As I walked in the front door, it was just ticking over to 10:48 - that also included the time it took to get the kids out and grab the bags but I reckon that's pretty bloody good.

Dirty Doogie
25th January 2008, 01:34 PM
There was story in the local paper about all the accidents that the police put down to ppl following certain GPS routes. drivers would leave Hastings St and, following the circuitious route, suddenly find themselves on a little narrow road in the middle of towering rainforest.

They would miss the street they had to turn into and realising their mistake try and turn around on the narrow road, but as soon as there drive wheels went off the bitumen they slipped and ended up down a bank.

In the article Police investigators put it down to the "feed back" type systems where drivers tell the GPS provider that the routes are too long /congested (time wise) . The GPS system looks at maps and devises another route. The short trip to Cooyar St can actually take 25 minutes in holiday gridlock periods. So it seems natural ppl would complain.

Quite interesting methinx

silentC
25th January 2008, 01:55 PM
Yes it is. The technology has a long way to go obviously, one of the main problems being that as soon as they release a new map, it's out of date. In the US and Europe, TomTom has a map updates facility that you can subscribe to and it allows you to make corrections and to download other people's corrections. Not available here, unfortunately.

Problems we found with it:

1. Changed roads and new roads missing
2. Some minor roads missing altogether
3. Some intersection alignments slightly out, so it says "in 400m, turn left" with only 350m to go (happened only once or twice).

There are substantial sections of the Pacific Highway where you just have to ignore it constantly telling you to turn around.

The Reading Street Port Macquarie one was interesting. The number we were after is at the far end of Reading and if you look at an old map, the quickest way is to go past the Reading Street entrance on Kennedy Drive and take the next left on an unnamed road that runs straight onto Reading. That road is no longer there and is now covered with houses. Not knowing that, TomTom took us straight past Reading Street and tried to get us to turn left into the houses. So we chucked a U turn and headed back. This time it wanted us to turn right into the house, but we kept going, so it quickly recalculated and told us to turn right down Reading, which was now the quickest route.

You might view that as an example of why trusting it is unwise - however if I'd looked at the route furnished with the same information, I would have had no reason to challenge it, because based on the available info, that was the correct way. Just to make things worse, they've let the trees grow up and you can't see the sign for Reading Street when you're travelling south on Kennedy.

But it got us there in the end.

Howdya do that
25th January 2008, 02:58 PM
In the US and Europe, TomTom has a map updates facility that you can subscribe to and it allows you to make corrections and to download other people's corrections. Not available here, unfortunately.


How stupid is that:doh:. I could drive through a few paddocks and add it as a new road or turn you driveway into a four lane highway.

silentC
25th January 2008, 03:09 PM
Well obviously it's not completely open slather:


When a user submits updates through TomTom Map Share™, these updates can be shared with other TomTom Map Share™ users. Users can therefore choose between downloading all reported map updates or only accepting map updates verified by a TomTom team of experts to guarantee timeliness and validity.

Cliff Rogers
25th January 2008, 03:33 PM
The Google maps seem to be more up to date than the Whereis (Sensis) maps.

Wood Borer
25th January 2008, 03:54 PM
Well I hope they are a bit better than the idiotic advertising/realestate websites.

I know someone interested in a property not far from Broughams Gate in NSW. The Fairfax website rattles on that it hasn't got anything exactly there but here are properties in nearby suburbs. The properties they listed were in the Sydney CBD.

Broughams Gate is North West of Broken Hill on the border of SA.

These absolute waste of space fools and idiots who write these databases must have really been around. :no:

zathras
25th January 2008, 04:03 PM
The Google maps seem to be more up to date than the Whereis (Sensis) maps.

Yes Google maps are associated with Navteq I believe.

Sensis = Useless Bloody Directory (UBD)

silentC
25th January 2008, 04:08 PM
Google Maps doesn't know about the change to Reading Street either.

It does know about the extension to my street though and to be fair, it has been this way now for a few years.

Sensis is associated with Telstra, so I don't expect efficiency :)

Cliff Rogers
25th January 2008, 04:25 PM
....Sensis is associated with Telstra, so I don't expect efficiency :)
Not Telstra's fault.
Whereis was owned by the Big Colour Pages & they were 'aquired' by Sensis at the time they began pinching too much of the Yelow Pages business.

silentC
25th January 2008, 04:33 PM
The TomTom web site says they get their maps from Tele Atlas, which is a Dutch company, and according to Wikipedia, Tele Atlas is owned by TomTom. Of course, that doesn't mean that Tele Atlas actually produces the maps, they probably just buy them from Sensis or whoever.

Anyway, we made it to Eumundi and back, not to mention numerous side trips, relying on the TomTom, with no other form of road map, so the proof of the pudding is in the eating, right :wink:

Cliff Rogers
25th January 2008, 04:43 PM
And I finally found Reilly Road in the back blocks of Innisfail, in the mean time, I discovered that Dodds Road is now closed & then, & then & then, I found out the hard way the Reilly Road now joins onto Henderson even though my dumbasre GPS didn't know that Henderson now goes all the way to South Johnston. :rolleyes: