Mortisers

[Big Shed]

Having just finished 8 rather large mortises on the drill press and then cleaning them up by hand with a chisel, it occurred to me (I stood a long time in front of the drill press!) that a mortiser might make lighter work of this.


Having never used a mortiser, I went to have a look at a few places on the internet that sell them and noticed that C/tec have 2 on special, firstly their basic model priced down from $269 to $169 (comes with !/2" chisel, so factor in another $49 for a set of chisels) and also the Delta Mortises, priced down from $549 to $399 (comes with full set of chisels)

So here are my questions:

1 How much better is it to use a mortiser rather than the drill press/hand chisel?

2 If I decided to buy a mortiser, should I just get the basic one for $208 inc chisels, or spend almost double and get the Delta?

All opinions welcome:2tsup:

[Cliff Rogers]

I am also interested.
I saw Powderpost give a quick demo at his place last month & one comment that I did remember was that if you buy the attachment for a drill press, the big bits can stall an under powered motor.

[Rocker]

Big Shed,

I think you are better off routing mortices using solid carbide spiral upcut bits and a morticing jig. You can make my jig (see below for plans) from offcuts of MDF for a few dollars.

Good quality morticers are quite expensive, and the chisels need careful maintenance to keep them in good condition.

Rocker

[Big Shed]

Rocker, I agree and have looked closely at router mortising jigs, including yours.

Unless there is something that I have missed, all of the suffer from one essential drawback, the depth of the mortise is limited by the cutting depth of the router bit, in most cases around 35-40mm.

In my case I was doing mortises 60mm deep, about half the depth of the stable door stiles.

Do you agree on this depth limitation, or have I missed something?

[Rocker]

Big Shed,

You can buy 3/8" and (I believe) 1/2" diameter spiral bits with 2" cutting length from McJing's (Call them - their online catalogue does not show their full range). If you make my jig with a 12 mm thick horizontal platform, you should be able to rout mortices 50 mm deep, which is probably as deep as you will ever need.

Rocker

[Big Shed]

Rocker,

Thanks for that, wasn't aware of those. Looked at various US suppliers and couldn't find anything over about 1 1/2".

I would prefer to make the mortises with the router, have done some small 1/4" ones with just the fence on the router, and they are very nice and straight, also quick! The only spiral cutting bit I have so far is a 1/4" McJing bit and it does an excellent job.

[Harry72]

They both have advantages, the router method is neat but can be slow in set up... and your left with round sided mortice(no biggy really).
The chisel morticer has a fast set up, does square sided mortices but has a rougher finish(very similar finish to hand chiseled mortices).

IMHO use the router for fine work and the chisel morticer for the larger/heavy and repetitive work.

[DJ’s Timber]

BS, Northwood have spirals in 1/2" x 2" (http://www.northwoodtools.com.au/categories.asp?cID=167)

[Big Shed]

They both have advantages, the router method is neat but can be slow in set up... and your left with round sided mortice(no biggy really).
The chisel morticer has a fast set up, does square sided mortices but has a rougher finish(very similar finish to hand chiseled mortices).

IMHO use the router for fine work and the chisel morticer for the larger/heavy and repetitive work.

Thanks Harry, what are the advantages/disadvantages of round sided vs square sided mortises. I rounded my tenons over so that I didn't have to square off the mortise.
I seem to remember reading somewhere that round sided m&T joints were stronger, but can't seem to find the article again, so maybe jus my imagination.

Harry, do you have a mortiser. If so which one? Would the Delta be twice as good as the cheaper Carbatec one?

As I haven't done big(isch) mortises witht router, nor used a mortiser, I am at a bit of a loss.

Maybe I should see if I can find someone who has a mortiser who is willing to demonstrate it to me.

[Brown Dog]

G'day Big Shed
Ive got one of the little carbatec morticers see here (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=32956). I bought it, not expecting too much from it but so far IMO it has perfomed quite well.

The hardest task I have asked it to perform so far were the wedged mortices I had to make for my work bench (that fist pic has the set up I used to get the wedge shape in the mortice) I had to make 1 inch wide through mortices in jarrah 80mm thick. Even though it took a few different setups to achieve a hole that big....I think the little machine handled it pretty well, giving results that only needed a bit of work with a chisel to tidy them up....see here (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=33209). I dont know how I could have achieved this with a router :?


Dunno if its still true....but they're advertised as they dont come with chisels, but mine actually did...I asked about this and the sales guy said, they tell people this because the chisels it does come with are apprently rubbish. I dont know whats wrong with them....after a bit of sharpening (with a proper sharpening kit) they seem to work fine for me.

I agree with Harry they are good for quick set ups and repetitive work whereas the router option will leave a better finish. I find it nice to be able have a couple of options when planning to cut joints :;

hope this helps

cheers
BD:2tsup:

[johnc]

I've had one of the little Jet mortisers, at the time it was a toss up between that and the Delta, a few reviews give the Delta a higher rating. After years of hand chopping mortices I reckon they are the ducks guts. I've never had a go at the mortice jigs using an upcut bit, but the little Jet does the job nicely, it can jam if you are a bit aggressive, especially in hardwood but once you get used to it operation is pretty much trouble free providing you keep the chisels polished and sharp.

[Big Shed]

G'day Big Shed
Ive got one of the little carbatec morticers see here (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=32956). I bought it, not expecting too much from it but so far IMO it has perfomed quite well.

The hardest task I have asked it to perform so far were the wedged mortices I had to make for my work bench (that fist pic has the set up I used to get the wedge shape in the mortice) I had to make 1 inch wide through mortices in jarrah 80mm thick. Even though it took a few different setups to achieve a hole that big....I think the little machine handled it pretty well, giving results that only needed a bit of work with a chisel to tidy them up....see here (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=33209). I dont know how I could have achieved this with a router :?


Dunno if its still true....but they're advertised as they dont come with chisels, but mine actually did...I asked about this and the sales guy said, they tell people this because the chisels it does come with are apprently rubbish. I dont know whats wrong with them....after a bit of sharpening (with a proper sharpening kit) they seem to work fine for me.

I agree with Harry they are good for quick set ups and repetitive work whereas the router option will leave a better finish. I find it nice to be able have a couple of options when planning to cut joints :;

hope this helps

cheers
BD:2tsup:

Looking at those wedged mortises I am impressed with the capabilities of the C/tec mortiser ( and yours of course BD!:2tsup:). I remember that workbench and was impressed at the time.
C/tec says on their website that a 1/2" chisel comes with it, but in the catalog it says that it comes with a set of chisels.



I've had one of the little Jet mortisers, at the time it was a toss up between that and the Delta, a few reviews give the Delta a higher rating. After years of hand chopping mortices I reckon they are the ducks guts. I've never had a go at the mortice jigs using an upcut bit, but the little Jet does the job nicely, it can jam if you are a bit aggressive, especially in hardwood but once you get used to it operation is pretty much trouble free providing you keep the chisels polished and sharp.


Thanks John, I read a review in FWW and it gave the Delta a good wrap, but I think I will just fork out the $169 and have a go with the C/tec one. After all it is less than what I paid for a lot of power tools in the shed and it will give me chance to try it out, can always upgrade at a later stage if needed. It is not as though I do heaps of mortises.

I will still have a go at routed mortises at some stage, but for the deeper ones like I have just finished, I think I will give the mortiser a go. Had alook at hte cost of some of the bigger upcut spiral bits and they are approaching the $100.

Good excuse to buy another toy:2tsup:

[mic-d]

just noticed the delta morticer is being runout at carbatec for $399 ($150 off)

Cheers
Michael

[Harry72]

BigShed, I have the Delta, its a good solid little machine, $399 is a good price.
All things being equal IMHO a round side or square sided make little if any difference... but seeming you have a dado set for your table saw which would make nice crisp and very square tennons...

There's another option Lig likes this one... buy a domi:D

[Big Shed]

... but seeming you have a dado set for your table saw which would make nice crisp and very square tennons...


Yes, the dado set does make nice crisp tenons, I only rounded them over because that was less work than squaring up the mortises.






There's another option Lig likes this one... buy a domi:D




Been waiting for the domi brigade to come out of the woodwork:D

Not much point me buying one, I already have a biscuit joiner:D

[Bodgy]

I've got the same as the Carbatec mortiser. I only have one problem with it, which is not really a 'performance' issue.

I find that the motor is more than powerfull enough, I only work with Oz hardwoods and the thing has never stalled or even slowed. I do keep the chisels sharp tho. I also find that it cuts mortices as deep as I've ever needed.

Having said this, I also use the router table for both m and t's. Depends how I feel.

The problem with the mortiser is the lack of a sliding table. Moving the piece by hand is pretty clunky. Unless you take the piece out after every cut and blow away the shavings you find they build up and cause the cuts to become un-aligned as the dust gets between the piece and the fence. Doing this dozens of times becomes very tedious. You could hook up a dusty I guess.

If I was to start over I'd go the higher end machine with the sliding table.

Look around a bit if you decide to buy, I got mine with 3 chisels for a bit over $200.

[underused]

I also have the Delta.
Ive made hundreds of mortises with it, using the bits that came with it. Its been a nice little machine. You really have to keep the bits sharp to get good results, but its not hard to do:)
The nice thing about them is you can make deep mortises easily and repeatedly. set up time is minimal, and is much less noisy and dusty than the router.
Ive done quite alot of wedged mortises with it too. I just make a wedge to sit the wood im mortising on, to get the required angle. Its worked out quite well:)

[Harry72]

Bodgy, after each mortice give it a blast with compressed air before you remove the piece of wood.
Are you setting up stops? Its much more accurate just like setting up a dropsaw for repetitive docking.
A problem I had when I first started using mine, I had adjusted the clamp down fork thingo to tight making shifting the wood hard and frustrating, now I set a gap of about .5~1mm and wax the table... much easier!

[Bodgy]

Harry

I sometimes use stops but the table design makes them a bit hard and fiddly to put in place. A sacrificial table would cut the plunge depth.

I'm sure you're right about the compressed air, or dusty, but again blowing out the dust after every plunge isn't my idea of efficient.

I suppose you have to put up with a bit of tedium, but I think the answer is to go a bit up market and get the more exxy one with sliding table.

[Harry72]

Ah ok, your trying to put the stops on the machine?
No need for a sacrificial table...
I screw my machine down to my work bench and mount the stops on the bench with clamps.
If the stop position is on the machine base I cut an offcut and place it between the stop(mounted on the table)and on the base of the machine, this way you dont have the problem of mounting a stop on the machine and the offcutt can be removed to aid blowing away the sawdust.
Also I plunge the short end of the piece of wood 1st then the other end of the mortice, this way sawdust doesnt get jammed between the stop and the wood, so you only need to blow the sawdust away after each complete mortice is cut.

[Big Shed]

Made up my mind to go for the Delta, had to go to Melbourne today to pick some other gear and went to Carbatec.

Sad news, no more Delta Mortisers and won't be getting any more.

Oh well, can't win them all, the Carbatec one at $169 isn't a bad deal but need to add chisels to that so that still takes it over $200.

Decided to sleep on that.

[Pusser]

..Also I plunge the short end of the piece of wood 1st then the other end of the mortice, ....

My understanding is that this is the correct way to use a morticer - You do each end and plunge subsequent holes leaving a web of timber in between then go back and clean out the webs left. This is because the bit will deflect if not supported on both sides which apart from getting a less than square and rough mortice, it will wear and blunt the chisel more quickly. The method pretty well avoids the sawdust problem as you say. Here is an interesting link on hollow chisel morticing

http://lumberjocks.com/jocks/decoustudio/blog/432