Ceder in a Humidor

[Pusser]

A friend wants a humidor and is getting some plans (It is a large cupboard type one). The plans I have seen all specify spanish cedar as the timber of choice for the lining. He has some Australian cedar and wants to use that. Is australian cedar related to spanish cedar and is it a suitable alternative timber to line a humidor?

[specialist]

I have no idea, but maybe this thread wil help you.

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=7680

[noelhi1]

Try www.HumidorsWholesaler.com (http://www.HumidorsWholesaler.com) or www.cigarhumidors-online.com (http://www.cigarhumidors-online.com)
might help:C
cheers Noel

[artme]

Spanish Cedar and Australian Cedar are in no way related.
Many Australian timbers were given European names because their grain pattern and/or colouring was similar to the timbers the European settlers were familiar with.
Australian Red Cedar is a Toon - Toona Australis in the older nomenclature or Toona Ciliata in the newer nomenclature.
Spanish Cedar is Cedrela Odorata and, asthe name implies, has a distinct odor. It is also knwn as Cigar Box Cedar.This cedar and related species are Conifers and I guess the best known is probably the Cedar of Lebanon which is depicted on that country's flag.

[Pusser]

Thanks all, looks like I will have to source some from overseas, It would take a lot of cigar boxes to get enough for the humidor envisaged. Looks like a longer term project.

[DSEL74]

I see that the spicies has different origins does this mean the timbers properties are in no way similar?

I have just drawn up the plans for a Katana Dansu (Sword Chest) yesterday I wish to build. Not sure what to make it from. The Japanese used special timber which doesn't absorb moisture to protect the swords from rusting. Would cedar be my best bet? or as above the Australian Cedar is different? On a budget looking for cheap functional options.

[BrettC]

Pusser,
I got a nice board of Spanish cedar from Trend Timbers at the WWW show (saving for a humidor project) you might want to try them?

[STAR]

I am way out of my depth here, but in answer to the japanese Sword chest made from a species that did not absorb moisture.

I do not know my timber but when we were over in tasmania last year I learnt some of the reasons Huon pine is so prized. A friend of mine who had family in tasmania left him two pallet loads of it in the will and my friend was over the moon.

When we were in Strahan, the port for Queenstown they had a working colonial timber mill there.

They said that the reason that Huon Pine is so valuable was for its insect protective properties and the fact that it is virtually indestructible in water hence it found a ready market for the beams of the wooden ships of the time.

So, having said that, maybe it is a good alternative to that Japanese timber, should not be too hard to confirm if the info is correct or crap.

Mind you. I know it is not cheap especially now it cannot be cut and only fallen tree are allowed to be dragged from the forests.

[artme]

Hi Dsel, The properties of both timbers are different. What timber the Japanese use for these boxes is a mystery to me But i'm willing to bet that if they would let you have it, it would cost an arm and a leg.

Star's point about Huon Pine being virtually indestructible in water is correct but also interesting in this context. It does continue to bleed minute quantities of it's special oil for ????? years and this may accumulate on the sword. The other thing to bear in mind is that some oils actually attract moisture.

I"ve been wondering about Celery Top Pine - also from Tasmania. It is reputedly the world's most stable timber when seasoned. This is why when pine boats were built in Tassie they used Huon


















P below the waterline and Celery Top P above the waterline.Now that must say something aabout CTP not absorbing water.:?

[Scally]

Spanish cedar is available locally.

I too bought some from Trend a year or two ago. Try the usual places.

The reason they use Spanish cedar is because of the way it absorbs and transfers moisture.
Australian red cedar is a similar density. I could be suitable.

DSEL for the above reasons the cedar would probably not be suitable for your box.
I assume you don't intend to put a finish on the timber?

Celery Top Pine and Huon were both popular for boat building. I have used Celery for cabinets and it is hard and stable. It finishes very smooth.

Not sure if this is any help. What is the timber supposed to do?

[Squirrel]

I too have purchased spanish cedar locally (Trend) and have made a cigar box. From research done sometime ago, you do not need to build the whole box from this cedar only a lining with it.

The reasoning in using this timber is for the fragrance and prevention of mold and parasites (this is only from memory, mind you).

Squirrel..

[Big Shed]

Some time ago FWW did an article on humidors.

It is available on their website, here (http://www.skillspublish.com.au/BK13-03.htm).

[Greg Ward]

Mal from Boutique Timbers may be able to help, he purchases cigar box from Atherton and always has some at the Sydney wood show.
Call him on 0265 858296 in he evening to discuss.

Regards
Greg

[DSEL74]

Firstly I am new to this site joinned 2 days ago. I am amazed at how quick and helpful you guys all are at posting responses. I think it is great to see there is still some sense of community to be found some where in the world.

As to the timber the Japanese use it is call Pallowina or something similar.
It is a similar color to pale obeche but has a similar grain to cedar.

What suburb is Trend in?

[DSEL74]

Thanks to another member scissors :-

Paulownia (kiri?) is one of the traditional woods used for this purpose. It's plantation grown in Australia, so it's pretty cheap and readily available. It's very light and somewhat bland, but hey.. if it's authentic...


So now I just need to find a reputable supplier who can provided various sizes dressed.

Cheers everyone!

[IanW]

Spanish Cedar and Australian Cedar are in no way related.
Many Australian timbers were given European names because their grain pattern and/or colouring was similar to the timbers the European settlers were familiar with.
Australian Red Cedar is a Toon - Toona Australis in the older nomenclature or Toona Ciliata in the newer nomenclature.
Spanish Cedar is Cedrela Odorata and, asthe name implies, has a distinct odor. It is also knwn as Cigar Box Cedar.This cedar and related species are Conifers and I guess the best known is probably the Cedar of Lebanon which is depicted on that country's flag.

Artme, you are correct except for your first & last statement. The Cedrela used for humidors is not a conifer, but a 'hardwood'. In fact, Cedrela and Toona are cousins, both belonging in the the family meliaciae, which takes its name from another cousin, Melia azedarach, aka White Cedar. Cedrela and Toona not only look similar, their woods have many properties in common, including a spicy aroma. Toona may well be suitable for cigar humidors.

The 'true' cedars are conifers (Cedrum spp) as you say, and the cedar of Lebanon is THE original cedar. There are several other conifers called 'cedar' (e.g. Western red cedar, Thuja sp. and some Junipers) which are distant cousins.

Speaking of woods which are safe with steel, there are certainly a lot to be avoided around here. I used some scraps of (northern) silky oak when fitting out my toolbox, and found wherever a steel object touched it, a nasty etch developed. Don't know about Paulownia, but an Asian species that seems to be gentle on tools is Camphor Laurel. My chisels & saws seem to be quite safe in drawers made from CL, or lying on spacers/dividers made from it.
I think the problems stem mostly from tannins and acids in the wood. Most oils & waxes are essentially water repellent.
Cheers,

[artme]

Great info Ian, I stand corrected! :doh::doh:
I like to know these things as it can be very helpful. Apart from which my cluttered mind loves to collect such info.:D:D:D
Are you a bit of a tree and species buff like I am?

[IanW]

Are you a bit of a tree and species buff like I am?

Well, Artme, let's just say I'm in the business of having to know a bit about biology. I'm not a botanist, but back when I started in the business, they still thought medical people needed to know a bit about botany, so we had a fairly thorough grounding in what makes a plant. Many more years of having to absorb lots of Latin names and how things are related, and well, there you go.

My interest in wood started much earlier, so it was fun learning about plants and how they are related. My fellow students thought I was weird, of course - they were there to learn about animals, not stupid plants! But it's both fun and useful to know a bit about structure & relationships of trees. Doesn't always help, of course, as I'm sure you already know, two quite closely related species can sometimes have very different properties from a woody's perspective......

One of the best things about our interest in things woody is that there's no end to learning - just as I start to think I know something, I find out my ignorance on the subject is even greater than I thought! :D

Cheers,

[Pusser]

Again, thanks for the info. I will try the local suppliers, will need a fair size board(s) though, the humidore is is about 1400 X 1000 X 30 mm but still subject to design changes (not by me). I was happy to do the work given the cost of a commercial one this size ex US.