mbirnios 19th December 2007, 04:06 AM Hi there!!
I recently moved to a new house, as I got married. Previously, I had my little workshop setup in the kitchen (some pics in this (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=52594)thread). After negociating with the new boss :B, I restored an old bench and was allowed to keep with my woodworking projects in the new apartment.. of course, once again in the kitchen :U
The attached pic shows the new bench. Originally, it was not a woodworking bench. It doesn't have vices of any kind. I did a new table top for it, but didn't want to put holes. It needs to look as a regular table, as it's part of the house...
My question is.. how can I clamp things? My problem is that it has drawers on the bottom, so I can't use "F" clamps as I was used to with my other bench. For hand planning, I was going to make a long shooting board, and I think it will be OK. But for chiseling, and some other jobs, it's good to clamp.
I tried opening one of the top drawers, and puting the "F" clamp there.. but of course, the drawer gets full of shavings in a minute! :C
Thanks for any ideas!
Mariano
Harry72 19th December 2007, 07:25 AM Take the drawer out completely:)
Frank&Earnest 19th December 2007, 02:33 PM Probably the easiest solution would be to enlarge the table top so that it is about 50mm wider on all sides. That would allow you to use F clamps again.
jerryc 19th December 2007, 03:25 PM Mariano,
If you have pipe clamps then you can put them vertically with the sliding jaw under the cabinet frame and the screw end above the table top and clamp whatever you want between them. Hope I make myself clear.
Before the introduction of the screw vice, one method of holding wood for planing was a vee cutout in a board so that the wood being planed was driven into the cutout and held firm by the planing action. The cutout was usually parallel to the wood face on one side and tapered to a vee on the other side. Often the sloping face was also stepped.
If what I say is not clear I will try to explain again with some photos.
Jerry
silentC 19th December 2007, 03:35 PM Another couple of methods not using clamps:
Hold downs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hold_fast) - basically a bar bent just past 90 degrees. You put one end in a hole in the bench top, put the other on a bit of scrap on top of your work and then hit it with a hammer or mallet so that the springiness in the bar and the friction against the hole holds it in place.
Go bars (http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Features/JT2000/JT2000Views/jt79.jpg) - a flexible length of timber which is just a bit longer than the distance between the top of your work piece and the ceiling. You bend the bar and position it between the top of your work (with a scrap in between) and the ceiling then let go. You usually need a couple of them at least. You'd need something to protect the ceiling though.
Pusser 19th December 2007, 04:12 PM Another couple of methods not using clamps:
Hold downs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hold_fast) - basically a bar bent just past 90 degrees. You put one end in a hole in the bench top, put the other on a bit of scrap on top of your work and then hit it with a hammer or mallet so that the springiness in the bar and the friction against the hole holds it in place.
.
He doesn't want holes in the bench - sort of rules out hold downs. He could try a combination of some of the above ideas like the sketch:
A variation would be a piece of MDF/Ply with a batton as a large bench hook with strategic blocks of wood secured. Wedges would be used between the work and the secured blocks.
jerryc 19th December 2007, 04:20 PM Spot on Pusser.
That was the wedge system I was trying to explain without an illustration One picture worth so much more.
jerry
Everyone is entitled to my opinion
Wongo 19th December 2007, 04:21 PM Maybe a large F clamp that is long eough to reach the bottom of the bench?
Wongo 19th December 2007, 04:25 PM He doesn't want holes in the bench - sort of rules out hold downs. He could try a combination of some of the above ideas like the sketch:
A variation would be a piece of MDF/Ply with a batton as a large bench hook with strategic blocks of wood secured. Wedges would be used between the work and the secured blocks.
Thought about that too but it is only good for planing. I think Mariano wants chiseling too.
BTW Mariano, you are an inspiration.:2tsup:
Pusser 19th December 2007, 05:57 PM Thought about that too but it is only good for planing. I think Mariano wants chiseling too.
BTW Mariano, you are an inspiration.:2tsup:
No reason you cannot chisel with a wedge system. This only works for planning or cuts at right angles to the bench but if you pot blocks or dowels around the shooting board you could use two wedges between the dowels or stops and the workpiece ala the recent posts on picture frames. This would hold them for anything.
elraco.com.au 19th December 2007, 08:43 PM Mariano
Something out of left field as you probably do not have a compressor in the apartment, well not if you want to keep in good with the neighbors.
Maybe some thing like the Vac-Clamp
www.vac-clamp.com
Australian made. Check out the website.
Yes I do have a vested interest, but how else can I suggest it?
In case I forget
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO EVERYONE ON THE FORUM!!
derekcohen 19th December 2007, 08:48 PM Have a look at a Zyliss (or Z-vise).
I recently re-discovered mine. Had not used it for 25 years. Now I do so all the time.
http://www.advmachinery.com/manuals/Zvise.pdf
Regards from Perth
Derek
jow104 19th December 2007, 08:57 PM Derek, that looks to me as if you have got one of your old toys out:D
Chris Parks 19th December 2007, 09:28 PM Another top clamped to the existing cabinet top? This sub-top for the want of a better word could have a vise etc attached to it on an overhang. The clamping would have to be done either across or length ways and I would use cam clamps.
Pusser 19th December 2007, 09:45 PM here is what I meant by a wedge clamp in the posts above. The base could be quite large. You would have to position the blocks to suit the project but it could be tailored to any shape or size that fits on the table. You could also have taller wedges for bigger bits.
Wongo 19th December 2007, 10:48 PM No reason you cannot chisel with a wedge system. This only works for planning or cuts at right angles to the bench but if you pot blocks or dowels around the shooting board you could use two wedges between the dowels or stops and the workpiece ala the recent posts on picture frames. This would hold them for anything.
yeah yeah understand, you can secure the work piece to your wedge system no worries but how do you secure your wedge system to the workbench?
jerryc 19th December 2007, 11:01 PM Wongo,
I covered how to hold the wedge in my post. Secure it using two pipe clamps from the bench top to the under rail of the carcase.
Jerry
Everyone is entitled to my opinion
Wongo 19th December 2007, 11:31 PM Why do you secure the work piece on the carcase and use clamps to secure the carcase to the bench?
Why not just secure the work piece on to the bench?
mbirnios 19th December 2007, 11:39 PM Hi all!!
Thanks for the answers! There are some things and ideas I'll definitely need to try! So far, I think that using a larger F clamp may do the trick. But I'll try to experiment with screwing a small vice (or the wedge system) to a MDF board.
I was thinking.. as I have one table corner "clear", I could do some sort of double shooting board. Argh.. hard to explain in words. You know.. the shooting board would have to stops underneath: the usual, that would prevent the board to move further, and another stop on the RIGHT, that would prevent the board going to the LEFT. It would need to be placed exactly in the corner. I would have two axis of 4 locked down.. but yes, there's still place for movments :no:
About enlarging the table top for a few inches, that wouldn't be allowed.. actually, the original table top was two inches larger on each side, BUT, I had to crop that because there's no much room in the kitchen, and it was part of the negociation to place the bench there:doh:
Thanks, and "Feliz Navidad y Aņo Nuevo" for all!! :U
Mariano
Pusser 19th December 2007, 11:40 PM Why no just secure the work piece on to the bench?
Because he does not want holes in his bench top - it has to stay looking like a kitchen bench as it is in his kitchen.
And for a lot of work he will not have to as it is like a bench hook.
Wongo 19th December 2007, 11:45 PM Maybe a large F clamp that is long eough to reach the bottom of the bench?
.
Pusser 20th December 2007, 08:27 AM I was thinking.. as I have one table corner "clear", I could do some sort of double shooting board. Argh.. hard to explain in words. You know.. the shooting board would have to stops underneath: the usual, that would prevent the board to move further, and another stop on the RIGHT, that would prevent the board going to the LEFT. It would need to be placed exactly in the corner. I would have two axis of 4 locked down.. but yes, there's still place for movments :no:
Mariano
We get what you mean. I was thinking if you go to the trouble of making a corner shooting board it might be more versitile of you drill a grid of holes (say 20mm at 100 or 120mm centres) and use 20mm dowels as the posts. You could then just place the dowels in the nearest holes and use wedges. It would mean your board would fit a hole range of sizes and it would be easy to set up- place your work on it, drop the dowels in the appropriate holes and put in your wedges. The dowels can be a loose fit as the wedges will take up the slack. I think for most work, gluing, paring, vertical chisel cuts etc you would not have to clamp it to the cabinet base. If you have any trouble understanding my description I will post another picture.
Ron Dunn 20th December 2007, 08:54 AM I'm thinking like Pusser ... drill a grid of holes (see Festool MFD for example) and use dowels, dogs, or perhaps the Veritas Bench Dogs / Bench Pups for something classy.
Pusser 20th December 2007, 09:18 AM Yep, like festool, you could even lash out on the festool clamps but here is the el cheapo version
jerryc 20th December 2007, 03:18 PM Pusser
I have used the hole, dowel and wedge system you show for some time but have added a small change. On two sides I have fastened a raised fence similar to the one you show on the underside.. Reason for the top fence is that I found it very useful for assembly glueing where I wanted an accurate right angle corner.
Jerry
Everyone is entitled to my opinion
Pusser 20th December 2007, 03:30 PM Jerry,
glad to be entitled to your opinion - Good idea
PS Mariano, if you want to use the veritas wonder pups you will need 19mm or 3/4inch holes
mbirnios 21st December 2007, 12:41 AM Pusser! I like that one!! Yeah... the grid and wedges, with the corner shooting board, might be a good combination. All right, as soon as I have it, I'll post some pics and comments!
PS: Your grapchis are great eh!!
Thanks!
Mariano
Chris Parks 21st December 2007, 09:20 AM What may be a better utilisation of the multi hole top would be to use small blocks with the dowels in the blocks. A single dowel would need a fairly thick piece of material for support. If you use small blocks with a couple of dowels imbedded in each block and dropped into multiple holes then a piece of fairly thin material would suffice for the top. At a pinch, even a piece of masonite (hardboard) would do it.
Pusser 21st December 2007, 11:09 AM What may be a better utilisation of the multi hole top would be to use small blocks with the dowels in the blocks. A single dowel would need a fairly thick piece of material for support. If you use small blocks with a couple of dowels imbedded in each block and dropped into multiple holes then a piece of fairly thin material would suffice for the top. At a pinch, even a piece of masonite (hardboard) would do it.
Mariano I think this is what is meant.
Mini I was thinking 19mm would be adequate for dowels - I think that is the same thickness as the festool board and it is the same as my old Black and Decker workbench. Anyway your idea is good but the multi dowel blocks would require Mariano to be very precise with his drilling or to make a drilling jig which was reliable for a lot of holes.
The single dowel blocks would not require the precision in drilling and still and would still allow for a thinner board as the shoulders would provide added support.
I guess Mariano needs to decide it the thickness of the board was an issue and whether he is confident in getting his holes precisely in the grid.
jerryc 21st December 2007, 11:35 AM Pusser,
Brief request.
What graphics system do you use to produce the drawings you include for illustration?
How easy is it to use?
Jerry
everyone is entitled to my opinion.
Pusser 21st December 2007, 11:44 AM Jerry it is just google sketchup, there is a sub forum under Special Interests on the front of this website which provides links to the download (free version) and tutorials. It is relatively easy but quirky until you get used to it. Because it is in 3D you have to understand how to use the inference engine. It is probably easier to use if you have not used another package first. At the price (free ) it is outstanding value and quite capable. You can be up and running in a very short time but it takes a while to master complex drawings. I havn't yet. These illustrations I do are very simple and you would be able to master them in an hour or so.
jerryc 21st December 2007, 02:24 PM Grateful thanks Pusser for prompt reply. I now must find time to drie myself into computer rage for a few hopurs.
Jerry
Everyone is entitled to my opinion
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