What's Oregon?

[pawnhead]

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/holgerdanske/th_1194323984_091ea7ac9fd4782679.jpg (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/holgerdanske/1194323984_091ea7ac9fd4782679.jpg)

That's about all I know.

I'm making a stack of puzzles out of a lump of 4x2 Oregon that came out of my kitchen ceiling. My old man put it up as dummy exposed rafters about twenty years ago, and I'm giving it a new lease of life as Chrissy presents.

I'd like to include the botanical name of the tree that it came out of, on the packaging that I'm making for the 'burrs'. I was under the impression that 'Oregon' was what we called 'Douglas Fir', and it came from the US or Canada.

The puzzle in the first pic has been dipped in teak stained oil. The pieces in front are raw, and it all came out of the same stick:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/holgerdanske/th_Oregon.jpg (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/holgerdanske/Oregon.jpg) http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/holgerdanske/th_Oregon1.jpg (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/holgerdanske/Oregon1.jpg)

If anyone could give me more information, or set me straight if I'm wrong, then I'd appreciate it. :2tsup:

Thanks.

[les88]

You are correct Douglas Fir had the name Oregon and they were one and the same. Now the name Oregon covers a range of timbers. In much the same way that Maple cover Meranti and other timbers. Good luck with your puzzles they are on my do it list.
les

[MurrayD99]

The older timber (demolition sourced) might be Canadian or American Oregon - it is light, strong and real nice to work with. The Douglas Fir we get here (NZ) is a quite different timber - the grain isn't as tight - doesn't finish so well.

[Wongo]

I always treat Oregon as another fancy name for pine.

[pawnhead]

I always treat Oregon as another fancy name for pine.Well I'm not calling it pine that's for sure. I don't want them thinking that they're getting crapiarta from me. :o

How about Oreganatis Dougliata Firilium? :cool:

That should fool em into thinking I've spent some serious dough, instead of fossicking through my firewood pile. :wink:

[MurrayD99]

I can't see the end grain clearly enough - but that looks like slow-grown North American timber - no relation of the aforesaid crapiata

[pawnhead]

Here's a close up:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/holgerdanske/th_endgrain.jpg (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/holgerdanske/endgrain.jpg)

The section is about 18mm square, give of take half a mil (I need a thicknesser :rolleyes:). So some of the grain has about half a millimetre separation, but as you can see, some have a lot more. As I've said, it all came out of the same stick of 4x2.

Here's the template for the boxes that I'm working on:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/holgerdanske/th_burrbox1.jpg (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/holgerdanske/burrbox1.jpg)

That hasp and lock in the corner will be attached to the lid as a pull tab. :2tsup: I've knocked up about forty burrs so far which is more than I need, so I just need to get the boxes printed out on some photo paper. I'll make four heavy duty boxes backed with cardboard for my kids. I've got room on the side there for a bit of information on the timber, so if someone doesn't chirp up before tonight, then I'll just Google 'Douglas Fir' and pull some BS out of Wikipedia or somewhere. I'd like to have a botanical name so I come across as a smart@rse. :cool:

[Ivan in Oz]

> Firilium

Might be the other type of Oreganatis Dougliata?

"Fullovit"

[Jim Carroll]

It is also common in Ireland O'reagon

Or its botanical name Fitzpatrikus Michaelious

[pawnhead]

There's not nearly as many knots in it as crapiarta, but the ones that there are look good. I'll save the gnarly ones for my kids:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/holgerdanske/th_knots.jpg (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/holgerdanske/knots.jpg)

I've whipped out my first prototype box, and it fits like a finger in a bum :D. I wish I could say the same about the way some of the burrs go together (they're not too bad actually)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/holgerdanske/th_box.jpg (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/holgerdanske/box.jpg)

That's just plain paper/low quality printing, and a blurry pic to boot (I need a tripod). Glossy paper and high quality setting on the printer should make a big difference when I get a better definition of 'oregon' sorted out.

[Ashore]

Oregon or Douglas Fir
Pseudotsuga taxifolia, Britton ( P. douglasii, Carr ) , ( Pinaceoe ).

Modulus of rupture = about 12,000 lb . per sq. in.
Modulus of elasticity = about 2,000,000 lb. per sq. in.
Weight = 26-40 lb. per cub. ft.

Re NSW forestry commission Division of Wood Technology.

Hope this helps
Rgds

[Frank&Earnest]

I have always put my two bobs in when Oregon is mentioned, so I will be true to form.

I fancy myself as a bit of an expert on Douglas Fir, and I can vouch that the Oregon I purchased here in Adelaide years ago was indeed DF.

I got a bit into a pickle recently for saying that stuff like yours looks more like pine to me (too pale, too wide grained) and I have been told that "new growth" DF can look like that. Maybe. I would like to have more evidence, though, given the well known unreliability of commercial names.

For your reference, pic 1 is what "real" DF should look like, pic 2 is good old radiata.

ETA: So, the bottom line is: just call it recycled Oregon, and you will be as honest as anybody. If you call it DF, some smart a*se might challenge it. Your call.:wink:

[IanW]

Wot Ashore sed.

Here's some pretty comprehensive info on its normal range & habits:

http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=PSME

F&E - it can be extremely difficult for the average woodie like me to accurately identify most softwoods/gymnosperms/evergreens (don't want to stir that old argument up again) from a wood sample. They have a very simple structure, as opposed to the more complex and much more varied structure of hardwoods/broadleaf/deciduos/angiosperm trees. DF happens to be one that is usually easy to spot, down here, where we import a limited number of species. However, you could confuse it with a few other softwoods such as the 'real' firs, or some bits of Larch, or even Hemlock, which have a somewhat similar pattern of growth rings depending on the particular tree & the cut. These species are also quite dense & splitty like DF.

FWIW,

[Lignum]

Quality 1/4 sawn Oregon is one of the nicest cabinet timbers around. Trouble is, its very hard to find.

[Frank&Earnest]

Wot Ashore sed.

Here's some pretty comprehensive info on its normal range & habits:

http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=PSME

F&E - it can be extremely difficult for the average woodie like me to accurately identify most softwoods/gymnosperms/evergreens (don't want to stir that old argument up again) from a wood sample. They have a very simple structure, as opposed to the more complex and much more varied structure of hardwoods/broadleaf/deciduos/angiosperm trees. DF happens to be one that is usually easy to spot, down here, where we import a limited number of species. However, you could confuse it with a few other softwoods such as the 'real' firs, or some bits of Larch, or even Hemlock, which have a somewhat similar pattern of growth rings depending on the particular tree & the cut. These species are also quite dense & splitty like DF.

FWIW,

Yep. You said very well what I meant.:) A useful test could be in the sanding. I found radiata takes a much better finish than DF without sanding sealer.

[pawnhead]

Thanks for that guys. Some good information there Ashore, F&E, and IanW.:2tsup:

F&E, I'll admit that it looks a lot more like that second pic of yours, but some of them are approaching the darkness of that first pic. It does look a lot like this (http://www.vanport.ca/douglasfir.htm) though, and that's what I'm used to the old Oregon looking like.

I reckon 'Douglas Fir' has a bit better ring to it than garden variety Oregon, so this is what I've come up with after fishing around on Wikipedia:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/holgerdanske/th_burrbox.jpg (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/holgerdanske/burrbox.jpg)

Any criticism or tips are welcome before I run off forty of them and start cutting, folding and taping. So far it's taken me longer to do the graphics for this box than it has to make all the puzzles. :sweat: I should be able to cut about half a dozen at a time anyway.

les88, if you're going to make some yourself, I can erase my name from that template and send you the full sized file if you want. By scaling it up or down it should fit any sized burr, so long as they're the standard four times longer than they are thick. My sticks are 18mm square, and 72mm long.

[Gaza]

being light in colour like that it could be hemp fir not dug fir, this was used for framing and structual carpentry in aust for many years. it is not as stable as dug fir. comes from same saw mills and region as dug fir.

NZ orgeon is a lot more orange in colour and it has a lot more knots.

[Lignum]

One way to tell. Give yourself a splinter... ouch:oo:

If its US or Canadian it will puss up. If its the Kiwi stuff it wont. Well thats what hapens to me anyway:)

[Frank&Earnest]

One way to tell. Give yourself a splinter... ouch:oo:

If its US or Canadian it will puss up. If its the Kiwi stuff it wont. Well thats what hapens to me anyway:)

There are much better ways. See http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrn/fplrn010.pdf

I was going to suggest to pawnhead that the simplest way is smelling it - no much good if you do not know the smell though, I grew up with it, so googled DF smell to find a description and found this useful site.
One thing is certain, though: if it has not a distinctive resinous smell, it is not DF.

[johnbro]

I realize this thread is a bit old but being as how I'm looking out my window at a few zillion board feet of both Douglas fir and Hemlock still growing, along with some already turned into trim in my house, I thought I'd chime in.:U

Up here in the rainy Pacific NW of USA (Washington--mine home, Oregon, and British Columbia--LOML's home) the forests are filled with DF, hemlock, and Western red cedar. Most lumber gets converted into construction materials (2x4, 2x6, etc,) and for simplicity they are stamped "hem fir" which means they could be either Western Hemlock or Douglas Fir. I've been told the two species are sufficiently similar in strength and hard enough to tell apart that this is done for convenience and because the two different trees get loaded on the same trailers during logging.

We commonly cut this stuff up for firewood when a tree falls in a windstorm, clearing land and not worth selling to a mill, etc. It's pretty easy to tell them when they're still standing and when you saw them up: a standing Doug Fir has limbs that sweep up and the very tip of the tree points proudly up to the sky. A standing hemlock has a tip that bends over limply and its limbs have the needles hanging down. The Hemlock looks more desolate and depressed than the Douglas Fir.

When you cut it, Doug Fir--even young trees--have a pinkish center, which turns honey colored after milling and drying. Hemlock is white right through, and frequently has tiny insect holes in it. If I grab a chunk of firewood and it's white with black dots I know I'm holding Hemlock.

Old growth Doug Fir is rare as hens teeth today in bigger sizes--the remaining stocks are clinging to the sides of mountains where the trees grow smallish and wiry. Wood in older homes around here is amazing stuff--a good friend with a circa 1905 home has floors made of the stuff--it's dense enough to withstand being walked on for a century. If you tried to do that with second-growth DF it would be dented like crazy.

The highest quality trees (rarer and rarer now) go for millwork where they are quartersawn. QS DF is referred around here as VG or vertical grain, and is used for door and window construction and trim. QS DF is typically the honey-colored older wood with occasionally streaks of the newer, lighter wood. Construction grade is usually the opposite--mostly white new wood, wide grained, with maybe a bit of pink.

Hemlock is often used as a cheaper alternative to or substitute for VG DF in millwork. It looks pretty similar in the rack after milling and can easily be stained to match oiled DF. In a house I built I used DF for door and window casing (tung oil finish) and hemlock stained to match for baseboard purely to save some money.

The pieces in the picture that started this thread look exactly like the "hem-fir" 2x4s out in my garage right now--open grain, 2nd growth, white not pink wood.

Hmm, didn't mean to be so verbose. HTH.

[artme]

I recall saying something on this subject in another post. It is interesting to read what Johnbro has to say and I think we should all take note.
I believe that in the days of the sailing ships single Douglas fir trees were sought after as masts because of their outstanding mechanical properrties. This was also the reason that DF was used for heavy structural work and home building.
For many years furniture makers in this country used DF, particularly for beds.This was almost always quarter sawn.
The more recently sold Oregon - last 20 years say - was sourced from plantation forests. Much of this I believe came from NZ. Now, like many tress, when taken from their natural habitat, The growth rates in those plantations was phenominal and so the timber was not as tight-grained.this timber was widely used here in Qld for for pergolas ( light,strong and easy to work with.
However, its poor properties for outdoor use lead to it no longer being allowed for use in such structures.Even galvanized nails would be rotted out within 8-10 years by the timber, termites love it and exposed unpainted timber would rot quickly.
For many people their only experience with Oregon was this inferior product. This has no doubt been bad for the image of what was once regarded as one of the world's great timbers.

[Pusser]

Thanks Johnbro, interesting post. I love the imagery of Hemlock looking more depressed. Perhaps they depressed over their families role in the death of Socrates. I am assumming the hemlock is the same as the poison of the same name. True?

[johnbro]

Thanks Johnbro, interesting post. I love the imagery of Hemlock looking more depressed. Perhaps they depressed over their families role in the death of Socrates. I am assumming the hemlock is the same as the poison of the same name. True?

Good question--I've wondered myself, but AFAIK "our" Western Hemlock isn't poisonous, at least it never surfaced in the usual "keep your kids and dogs away from the following plants" discussions...

As to the comment about Doug Fir--uh, Oregon, being used for outdoor use, no one here uses untreated fir or hemlock as an outdoor wood, that being largely the province of Western Cedar, which is highly rot resistant. In fact, it's so rot resistant that the stumps of trees logged 90 years ago or so are still around on my property, some of them more than 3 m in diameter--must have been some trees, and felled with hand tools, too. I've seen pictures of old time PNW loggers sitting 4 to 6 wide in the wedge they cut in a tree before felling. Big suckers, all gone now.

[Sawdust Maker]

Thanks all

My dad said the oregon was named after the US sate it originated in and was douglas fir.

I found this thread extremely interesting and will now treat with more respect the oregon I salvaged from my house when I renovated. I used most of it for kitchen cupboard doors. The house was built during the first world war, so I'm guessing it is nearly 100 years old. Will have to have a party

cheers

[Pusser]

Thanks Johnbro for taking the time to reply. Am visiting my daugter in San Francisco and touring the South West in April. Next time we visit I will do the NW and see some of those trees. All the best

[IanW]

.......... Perhaps they depressed over their families role in the death of Socrates. I am assumming the hemlock is the same as the poison of the same name. True?

Ahh, the problem of common names, or is it guilt by association......?

The Hemlock Socrates reputedly consumed was Conium maculatum, which is a member of the carrot family. AFAIK, the Hemlock tree Johnbro is referring to (Tsuga spp) is not toxic, though all bets are off if you're silly enough to make a meal of it!

To further confuse you, the European hemlock has been introduced to Nth America, (and Hemock trees are extinct there) and has become a naturalised weed in many areas, & there is another toxic 'hemlock' , called water hemlock (Cicuta maculata) which is native to eastern US and Canada, and is responsible for sporadic stock poisonings. At least it's in the same family.....

So Johnbros trees may be depressed about the death of Socrates, but they played no part in it............ :no:

Cheers,

[Pusser]

Thanks Ian. Interesting illumination. Common names are a buggers muddle eh!

[Dirty Doogie]

Johnbro - many thanx for posting that informative info. I visited your area many years ago and always wanted to go back - never got around to it .

[wtrueman]

Better late than never; but here goes. I think, by the look that it is Douglas Fir. Up here on Vancouver Island, and elsewhere I presume, the D.G. is not used in the pulp and paper industry because it has resin (sp?) pockets, so if it smells of resin, it should be. In any case, if its tight grain, it probably old growth and getting scarcer than hen's teeth. Wayne

[astrid]

I always thought a fur tree was a pine tree,
and origon was called oregon because thats where all this reddish wood came from, or to your average victorian australian woodworker, there abouts.
Like tas mountain ash is often misnamed Oak.
and toonis australis called cedar because it looks and works kinda the same.

Is there an actual tree called an oregon tree?
I was once told that the only way to positivly identify timber was to get it under a microscope in a lab.
this is because two identical seedlings planted in different temperate zones will look entirely different when mature.

EG english and french walnut.


Astrid

[IanW]

I always thought a fur tree was a pine tree,.....
Astrid

Astrid - That's a bit like saying all Eucalypts are gum trees - the conifers are a pretty diverse lot, and there are many more types than pine trees! Firs, Hemlocks Larch, Spruce, Cedars and Junipers are all very different trees with different woods and different properties.


...I was once told that the only way to positivly identify timber was to get it under a microscope in a lab.
this is because two identical seedlings planted in different temperate zones will look entirely different when mature.
Astrid

Trees certainly vary as individuals, just like us, but their basic wood structures tend to be similar across a genus and species, so yes, you can identify many woods quite accurately by their microscopic structure. Unfortunately, many conifers are exceedingly difficult to tell apart from the wood alone, as they have much simpler structure than hardwoods, so even the experts can't give a definitive answer on what a chunk is, at times.

Being too definite about what a piece of wood is from a poor photo is a bit of a mug's game, but it seems to be endlessly played here..... :U

Cheers,