Wood lathe running costs?

[robutacion]

Hi everyone,

I was discussing this matter another day, with a neighbour of mine, when he made the comment, "gee, you should get a fat electricity bill, just for the time you got that lathe on...!". He then went on, about the possible cost of running a work shed, like mine, etc..

Is obvious that, and after some interesting (to him) demonstrations he now know exactly how much the lathe costs to run, as every tool on the shed. This gave me the idea to ask his same question on this forum. How much do you think a (normal lathe, about 1.5 HP) costs in electricity for a days work, a weekend or other?

How much difference in power consumption and respective costs, can a wood lathe use, depending on gear (speed) and blank size?

These questions are obviously an exercise, to ascertain how many turners actually though about it, or have indeed searched or obtained these kind of answers. I believe everyone has concerns about the amount of energy that is wasted every day, as everyone would also liked to see their Power bills reduced. There are simple ways to get power consumption costs, for any tool or appliance you have but that is for later discussion.



So, is a wood lathe expensive to run?
How much do you thing it will cost to run a .i.e (1.5 HP) wood lathe, lets say for, 8 hours, turning a medium size blank (piece of wood) about 4 kg in weight?

PS: Don't worry, If we lose the power, I would be still turning using one of those lathes like Robyn Wood. Yeah!

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[DavidG]

Most of the time the motor is just making up the losses in the system. Not much work.
Only when you load it up is it drawing near a full load and that would be a pretty small percentage of the time.

Say an average of half power ~500w x 8 hrs x 10c/kwh = 40c per day

Add lights and others you may make $1.00 for a day.

Not even the cost of a can.

[Tankstand]

1125W X 8Hrs X 25c (Being generous) = $2.25 a day.

[DavidG]

1125W X 8Hrs X 25c (Being generous) = $2.25 a day.
If you could keep a big gouge dug into the timber all day.

The HP rating is the MAX under load. Most of the time when turning the lathe is idling. (Light cuts, sanding, you just looking, etc).
It draws a lot less power.

Since when was electricity 25c in town.
Mine is under 10c/kwh

[Frank&Earnest]

Since when was electricity 25c in town.
Mine is under 10c/kwh

I paid today my quarterly bill and I am not amused. (~17c)
Could I please run an extension cable to your place? Or is it another perk only for politicians?:D With my moderate consumption the difference would be about one grand a year, happy to split in the middle.

[TTIT]

Whatever it cost's to run the lathe, it's money well spent - unlike money wasted running things like idiot boxes and dish washers etc (or are they the same thing :shrug:).

[robutacion]

Hello everyone,

I will comment on some posts, but first, I would like to explain the reason of my thread.
There are 3 (three) specific points to my thread.
1- Find out if people are aware of the runnings costs of an "average" wood lathe.
2- Provide the necessary information and links to those that would like to find out, the easiest way ever, to get the accurate answers.
3- Compare the costs of wood turning as a hobby, against other common hobbies around. (This is a positive incentive, targeting new turners).

DavidG, your general perception is right, just a bit light on the Kw/Ph. I wouldn't mind to pay only that much, unfortunately, the last bill I paid (11/07), I was charged 17.5c p/Kw for 11 days and the new rates at 18.06c p/Kw for 81 days.

Tankstand, I reckon you are maybe a little heavy on those dollars, we will see what happens, when I share the results of tests I've done not that long ago...!

Frank&Earnest, yeah it always hurts when you do it! surprised about the 17c tough?. Maybe some of the information I will share next, will allow you to find out where it all goes!

TTIT, I totally agree with you, on the first bit, but "ain't got" any issues with the idiot boxes, or washing machines, sorry. :D

Now to the second point of my thread...!
The link bellow, and to avoid repeating myself, is part of my web site, where I have expended a little about the related issue. (a couple pics of my P. Mate). Any questions and or comments will be discussed back in this thread.
http://timberssoul.webs.com/powermatepowerspy.htm

PS: I have attached a pic with the instruments used on my tests (4xchannel temperature data logger, Power Mate)

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[wheelinround]

Well timed RBTCO this became a discussion last weekend here at home when for the 2nd Sunday morning we had an outage of the 240 power supply due to a faulty fishpond pump.

Of course comments by the women of the house who know all prior locating the problem was I am running to many electrical items. Now this is first thing Sunday morning just after breakfast.

Checked out your web site great stuff :2tsup: great piece of equipment :2tsup:

:oo: :o but $295 price tag soon eats away that $1000 bucks refund leaves you with $705 unless you bought the $405 or the $345 one.

Have you done tests on such as SCMS or Dust collector etc

Ray

Saving only happen if the greedy power companies stop putting up the charges.

[switt775]

OK two points.

1. The cost of running a hobby workshop (including power and consumables) will pale in comparison with the cost of buying that one more tool we REALLY need to do the job properly. It is therefore irrelevant.

2. Most of us use our WW hobby as a means of maintaining our sanity; it either enables us to continue working, or prevents us from causing serious damage to our surroundings. It is therefore classified as a Good Thing, and should be encouraged, whatever the cost.

[Ron Dunn]

Are you sure that was the point of his question?

It might have been a subtle way of telling you that the noise from your lathe is intrusive.

[NeilS]

I recently worked out the approximate electricity cost of running my workshop for another purpose. Here are the details:

The workshop cyclone has a 3HP motor that is rated at 2.24 kW. I have measured the current it is drawing under normal operating conditions and it is using 2.4Amps of its maximum rating of 6Amps. That's 40% of 2.24kWh = 0.896kWh.

The lathe has a 3/4 HP motor that is rated at about 0.56kWh. I estimate that I would on average run it at about 50% capacity. That's 50% of 0.56kWh = 0.28kWh.

My other major item of equipment is a 2HP bandsaw, which also gets used at the same time as the cyclone, but for only brief periods of time. I use a few other smaller power tools, mostly when I'm not using the lathe, plus the odd light, but they do not amount to very much compared to the cyclone and lathe.

So, my combined hourly running cost of the cyclone and the lathe comes to 1.176kWh. Like Frank&Earnest, my Adelaide supplier charges me ~17c/kWh. If I use the main items of equipment for six hours a day the cost is $1.20. Not a major cost compared to everything else.

[BernieP]

G'Day RBTCO

Found your website very interesting, thanks for sharing I will have a closer look when time permits. Power rate is probably of interest to some here but afraid I am one of the "plug in and have fun" brigade, so choose to keep my head buried in the sand, regarding cost.

Cheers
Bernie

[Frank&Earnest]

Of course, I was only having a dig at the ACT fat cats!:D

In my case, which I would assume rather average for an all electrical household, it works at
24 Kwh/day for heating and cooling
11 Kwh/day for lighting and appliances in the house (with 2 kids at home, that includes 3 computers running 24/7!:((
1 Kwh/day for the shed (airconditioner not connected yet)

You will find out that actual consumption is much less than your theoretical calculations, unless you are really using power tools all day. When my gout flares up, I am afraid I use more power for the computer than for the shed...:C

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I tried doing a costing for my li'l beast and was surprised at just how expensive it is to run.

6 Weet-Bix™ before I start, a ham & salad sandwich around Noon and numerous cups of coffee scattered throughout the day when output begins to flag. :roll: At least it's independant of the State Power Grid. :U

[MY TURN]

OK two points.

1. The cost of running a hobby workshop (including power and consumables) will pale in comparison with the cost of buying that one more tool we REALLY need to do the job properly. It is therefore irrelevant.

2. Most of us use our WW hobby as a means of maintaining our sanity; it either enables us to continue working, or prevents us from causing serious damage to our surroundings. It is therefore classified as a Good Thing, and should be encouraged, whatever the cost.

I agree

This why I call my hobby "ITS my turn"

Mike

[mcarthur]

You could always get a mains power meter (like this (http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MS6115&CATID=&keywords=power+meter&SPECIAL=&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=) - $40 @ Jaycar). It won't do 3 phase though, and I'll have to check at home as to whether it'll do > 10amps.

Rob

[DavidG]

Whats the worry.

The can costs per day far out weigh the electricity costs. :doh: :U

[TimberNut]

The capacity in my shed - 63A per phase x 3 phase. Even the electrician reckons I could run a 2nd property off that (or more). My comment - you bewdy!!!
If I find another toy I want to run in there, I doubt I'll have to sit around doing calc's to see if the wiring can cope.

I'm definately in the "my electricity bill is cheaper than my sanity" category.

The way I figure it - I have one day of pain every 3 months (when electricity bill arrives) and 365-4 days of pure joy turning/making/playing, (or just flicking switches :-) ... cause I can.

and as has been noted by others already - compared to what your house consumes, the shed's bugger all.

If there's ever a question asked..Do what I would do - blame the bill on the house Air Conditioning and go out in the shed and have fun.

Life's too short.

[Waldo]

Fattittybums :o to what it costs. :D If it makes a noise and sawdust then I'm a pig in mud. The only costs to be considered are how-often-does-the-thing-grab-a -chunk-off-you-or-send-a-missile-your-way-and-you-don't move fast-enough-out-of-it's-way-and-it-hits-you-in-the-head-or-other-parts-on-your-person.

(not to take way from an argument with carbon-free-politally-correct-types who want to kill our fun :U)

[rsser]

Don't want to kill anyone's fun here, but in Vic with the Latrobe valley a major pollution engine, if we had to pay for the external diseconomies of the carbon footprint, we'd be shelling out way more for our fun.

And happy to do it ;-}

Maybe we should be planting a tree for every x hours whittling one down.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I've been known to plant a shrub or six in my attempts to "greenify" the neighbourhood and boost the economy, but Mr Plod keeps coming along and pulling them up...

:U

[wheelinround]

Robin Wood has the right idea better turning no electricity
No steel production except for tools which he makes his own

The blokes with fridges air-con etc etc etc

[Martin xp]

don´t understand the whole thread!!! my lathe uses not more power than my fridge. If i had a heath pump or a aircon ...... yes then we had a ......
base for discussion ......
So what is it about??? how can I save energy??? how can I turn more economical??? give me details!!!

cheers
Martin

[HappyHammer]

The biggest energy consumption in my shed is down to the beer fridge but you can only go so far when being environmentally responsible...:U

HH.

[DavidG]

Think we are drifting from the subject but as a payback to nature, I bought 40 acres of trees to soak up the carbon I (family) create.
I plant more trees each year so ......:U

[wheelinround]

The biggest energy consumption in my shed is down to the beer fridge but you can only go so far when being environmentally responsible...:U

HH.

You recycle the cans dont you HH water the garden all with what comes out of the fridge

[Waldo]

I've been known to plant a shrub or six in my attempts to "greenify" the neighbourhood and boost the economy, but Mr Plod keeps coming along and pulling them up...

:U

Just not right is it. I mean it all goes to helping and if we all do our bit. :U

[Frank&Earnest]

Let's be fair, and go back to RBTCO's points:

"There are 3 (three) specific points to my thread.
1- Find out if people are aware of the runnings costs of an "average" wood lathe.
2- Provide the necessary information and links to those that would like to find out, the easiest way ever, to get the accurate answers.
3- Compare the costs of wood turning as a hobby, against other common hobbies around.

My answers:

1- Yes. They are immaterial.
2- Thank you, but accuracy is not important because of 1.
3- This is interesting, but another question altogether.

As in any manufacturing activity, the main costs are:

- labour. Not relevant because it's a hobby.

- depreciation of the plant. Say that your shed, machinery etc. cost $10,000. Instead of putting this money in a term deposit and having $40,000 in 25 year time, the plant is going to be worth near $0 after this period. This is the most dangerous area for us... they are TOYS, not tools...

- maintenance. With care, at hobby level this should not be much.
- consumables. Chisels etc. As above, but probably still more than power. Beer is NOT included. That's another hobby you are comparing with. :wink:

-raw materials. If the items are for sale, it does not matter whether the timber is expensive, if it sells well the cost is borne by the purchaser. For the hobbist it does matter: do you want to turn ebony or pine into toothpicks?:D

Power will always be a single digit percentage of the lot.

Enjoy!

[DavidG]

If you want expensive hobbies look at Golf, fishing boat, horse riding, car racing, etc.

I would say that wood working was cheap compared to some.
$10,000 worth of tools over 10 years is only $2.00 per week

To feed a horse is $$$$$$$$$$

To keep a dog cost $$

Kids $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Wood work $

That is my story and I am sticking to it.....:;


Edit: Another Senior moment... That is supposed to be $20 per week. :C

[ss_11000]

Your dog must live pretty well David - if it costs more than WW.

[Waldo]

just remember Blue is the new "Green" :q:U

I thought he was gold.

[DavidG]

Your dog must live pretty well David - if it costs more than WW.
Have you priced dog food lately and vet fees.
Remember WW pays it own way from sales.

[ss_11000]

Have you priced dog food lately and vet fees.
Remember WW pays it own way from sales.
fair enough.

[robutacion]

Thanks people,
There are some interesting comments in this "lot", will take me a little time to get around this few so, lets Analise them!

wheelinround (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=16807)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_664383", true); </SCRIPT> - Faulty electrics are always dangerous an can become a very expensive exercise. Off-course, the problems are always related with the shed, huh?. No, I haven't done any tests on dust collectors, because I don't have one, but I would be happy to do it, if I had the opportunity!. You did refer to the worthiness of the instrument at the end of the day, I therefore believe important to expend that point just a little. When I was over charged for those 6 months, wasn't easy to find anything that would help me to test my suspicions and evidencing the results, in the legal way. It would be a wast of time to make a claim such as mine, if I hadn't use a recognised, reputable and calibrated instrument, such as Power Mate. At the time, that was my best affordable option, due to availability and user friendly. I was quoted up to $12.000 for instruments that would give me answers, and with it a necessary 3 month training before I could use it (understand it). outch!
I got the $345 (a bit higher then) Power Mate model because I had a couple of appliances that draw 240V~15A.
I can understand your calculations formula, but the/my reality is quite different. An investment of near $400.00, on the top of an over charge bill, (nearly triple to what suppose to be, then) without any guaranty that my claim would be accepted, plus many, many hours of testings and recordings, could be deterrent enough for most people. My unsecured investment and my determination to prove the facts, resulted in, a credit of approx. $1.000. This covered the instrument cost, plus $600 for my time. This fact alone is relevant enough, but the truth of the matter is that, due to the very detailed and complete tests performed with my real power consumption, I was able to identify problem appliances/tools, and more importantly, re-arrange the way power is used at my house/shed. The results of this are a lot more worthing than, my claim been accepted, as the instrument (tests), have allow me to see the bigger picture of power consumption efficiency, and after a few changes, my "regular/average" power consumption bill is now approx, 45% less. This has been maintained since (nearly 2 years ago) so, I got a lot more than my money back for the Power Mate.

I wouldn't care less if people buy or not a Power Mate, there is not even the point of my thread. I'm simply providing a lead, to the instrument I used and to those that don't know the instrument, and feel that it could be of some help to them. We all like gadgets, some more than others, huh?:wink:

switt775 (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=18558)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_664392", true); </SCRIPT> - I agree with the first part of your point 1, but not with the second part. No, you don't really need to purchase one of them to do your job right. In the context of my original question, that could be an option, that would be your choice, only.
"2. Most of us use our WW hobby as a means of maintaining our sanity; it either enables us to continue working, or prevents us from causing serious damage to our surroundings." Yeah, I agree, but now that you mention it, It could also be a "serious" savings to your pockets!:D

Ron Dunn (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=19085)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_664402", true); </SCRIPT> - Good point Ron, but not the case. He can't hear the lathe (he confirmed) but he could hear, the small petrol chainsaw I normally use at home tough, so an electric Husqvarna chainsaw was purchase, to void any complains or "subtle" ways of communication!

NeilS (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=16000) - Glad to know that you done also some work on your power consumption, (shed, lathe, tools,etc.) From where I stand, your figures look pretty right to me. What did you use?:?

BernieP (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=12660)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_664425", true); </SCRIPT> - I'm glad you find some interesting stuff on my web site. Is nothing wrong to "bury you head in the sand", if is you choice and you can afford it. I reckon, those like you, don't see the Doctor often, have no heart problems and live long life's, huh? good for you Bernie.:2tsup:

Frank&Earnest (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=14390)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_664468", true); </SCRIPT> - Everyone has different power consumption habits and needs, some have bigger sheds than others, and some have more "power hungry" tools/machines than others. You have a quite considerable consumption (high levels) at home, but seems very little at the "Kings Castle". How many hours would you say you spend on it in a normal week?, I mean working (tools, lights use) because as soon as that air-con is plugged in, the summer work will be done under a very different kind of music ($), huh?
Yes, you right, accurate calculations need to be based on the real working times, for each item. A little bit time consuming, but you normally only need to do it once! or when ever a new electrical tool is introduced to the "mob"!

Skew ChiDAMN!! (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=7130)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_664506", true); </SCRIPT> - Hahahahaha, those are not running costs, those are "stanby" costs. Unfortunatelly the State Power Grid, has other ideas!:oo:

MY TURN (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=18511)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_664514", true); </SCRIPT> - Well, I don't see why my question should change the way you call it "ITS my turn".:?

mcarthur (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=11693)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_664517", true); </SCRIPT> - Wow, never seen it, but looks promising. The price is OK, so an order from me will go before tomorrow. I can't answer you questions about it but, I will soon find out. I wouldn't expect, or think possible, that this new instrument could ever have the same functions, accuracy and legal recognition as the Power Mate, but still will save me lots of swapping around for minor readings. Thanks very much for the link.:2tsup:

DavidG (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=1926) - "The can costs per day far out weigh the electricity costs."
Well DavidD, I reckon you are absolutely right, and some how, you answer to my point 3. No worries, mate.:roll:

TimberNut (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=4595) - Gee, you don't do half things, do you?. Don't thing power load capacity is a problem for you. "I'm definately in the "my electricity bill is cheaper than my sanity" category." I couldn't agree more, shame that some of us spend so much money with doctors and chemists, also! Glad that "you can".
Yeah, aren't some of those air conditioners "bastards" to eat power?:D

Waldo (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=6005)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_664559", true); </SCRIPT> - "If it makes a noise and sawdust then I'm a pig in mud." My thoughts precisely!. UFOs are always to be considered, and no one is trying to kill the fun, believe me!:U

rsser (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=801) - I agree with you on that, we are the lucky ones!:)

Skew ChiDAMN!! (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=7130)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_664575", true); </SCRIPT> - "Greenify", so that is what they call it, in our days, huh?:oo:

wheelinround (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=16807) - Well, not exactly. Considering the amount of food/drinks (energy = $) he needs to keep "paddling" all day long, I still prefer it as a last solution option.

To be continued... Part1

[robutacion]

...continued part-2


Martin xp (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=20780)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_664585", true); </SCRIPT> - Actually, if your lathe uses as much power as your fridge, is a good chance that your lathe is using a lot more than it should. In average terms, an average fridge uses double, than a average lathe!
On the other hand, I think that you missed my point all together, Martin.
"So what is it about??? how can I save energy??? how can I turn more economical??? give me details!!!" Well, not knowing all the processes you use on your turning, is difficult to make any recommendations or observations if necessary. Just as a point of interest, using a chainsaw to remove all corners and make the blank as round as you can, your lathes life just simply triples (bearings, etc.), and the power consumption used to turn that clean/round blank, will be half than compared with an unbalanced, rough blank. The cost of running the chainsaw on that blank, is approx. 10 times less, compared with the extra power used and maintenance costs by trying to do it all on the wood lathe.:C

HappyHammer (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=3794)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_664587", true); </SCRIPT> - Gees, your beer fridge has to be a gigantic one, or what?:oo::rolleyes:

DavidG (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=1926) - Yeah, the subject has been going like a yo-yo, but you get that!. Wow, 40 acres of trees is lots of trees. The same size pine plantation near my house, if the memory serves me right when I spoke to the owner, I believe he said he planted 2,500 pine trees on the 40 acres, which are near 20 year old.:q

Gra (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=5236)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_664687", true); </SCRIPT> - In my days, the black can was the new "mothers milk":no:

Frank&Earnest (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=14390)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_664742", true); </SCRIPT> - Thanks for re-directing the lost guys to the subject, but you got me flabbergasted with the responses you are giving me now, mainly the second part.
"My answers:
1- Yes. They are immaterial.
2- Thank you, but accuracy is not important because of 1.
3- This is interesting, but another question altogethere tottaly"
I'm trying to work out, what would be the best way for me to tackle the second part of your post. Well, money in the Bank, doesn't do anything to me. Depreciation has no value in my books, you by your tools/toys and you do your best to make the best you can do with then. If those tools are used to make things that were sold, at least some, then you got something back, if not the value of those tools to you, haven't change, and after ten year working with them, most people would be just happy to have someone to take then away and leave the shed clean to be replaced with the latest stuff around (new toys). After all this, I'm still not sure that this have anything to do with my original 3 points, maybe because I'm tired of trying to respond to everyone as I normally do, but its near 4:00 am and I had a long day.:-

DavidG (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=1926)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_664963", true); </SCRIPT> - I agree with you also on this, and that was the reason why I started the thread in the first place. To have an idea what people opinions are about the 3 specific points, not that difficult, huh?:U

ss_11000 (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=9172)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_664967", true); </SCRIPT> - Some dogs are just too lucky, huh Stirlo?:q

DavidG (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=1926) - You're right DavidG, certain dogs can become extremely expensive, mainly if they big and need vet assistance all the time. With wood turning, most of us would be happy to have just their costs recovered. Some of us only sell the finished product, just to allow them to keep doing what they are so passionate about, others do not have the means to cover all the running costs, and are forced to either sell their so loved lathe and tools, finishing with a broken heart until the day they die. Others more fortunate, manage to keep everything they so hardly work to possess in their old sheds, but unable to use them, and that my friends, should be more than enough to darken anyones Mind & Soul.:no::(


Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO
(up to post 38)

[wheelinround]

RBTCO :2tsup: thanks for all your reply's and staying up till 4am to do so

worth a greenie

Mcarthur's Jaycar tester I could possibly see as a buy I am concerned more for in house usage than shed usage.
Thanks Mcarthur :2tsup:

I am becoming more and more aware of power usage the general consumer hasn't got a hope in hell of knowing what usage/consumption if its correct or wrongly in put by the guy/gal who reads the metre, we have had this experience twice at different homes it was the company who found the fault and refunded the difference off the next bill.

[HappyHammer]

You recycle the cans dont you HH water the garden all with what comes out of the fridge
Of course.:U

HH.

[HappyHammer]

HappyHammer (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=3794)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_664587", true); </SCRIPT> - Gees, your beer fridge has to be a gigantic one, or what?:oo::rolleyes:

It is:U

Another alternative if you don't want to spend any money is to phone your electricity company who will loan you a Check or Test meter for 3 weeks or so. It looks like a regular meter and you plug your appliance / tool into it and it into the wall it then gives you the Kwh consumed over the period you have it in place. Multiply this by your rate and you have your answer.

HH.

[Frank&Earnest]

Good morning RBTCO, hope you had a good sleep in!:) Sorry if I have complicated the issue. It looks to me that we are not in disagreement, only we have a different perception. If "money in the Bank, doesn't do anything to me. Depreciation has no value in my books" basically you are, like all of us it seems, happy to pursue your hobby without much concern for its cost. In other words, if you are not concerned with 90% of the cost, why be concerned with a specific 10%? (or 5 or 15, does it really matter?)

To "Compare the costs of wood turning as a hobby, against other common hobbies around", though, one needs to know what the 100% is made of, and I presented a very basic cost analysis to address your question. Of course everybody's circumstances are different. For example, if you have bought a small farm in the hills and there was already a shed there, its cost might be rather immaterial to you, as it might have made little difference to the price of the house and land. To me, it cost $10,000 to build and $2,000 to wire. For any meaningful comparison, however, we both have to be aware of this cost.

Cheers

[SawDustSniffer]

um if i remember right ? my 2horse NOVA DVR XP uses 80% less than a conventional motor ??? ( it uses a stepper motor )

[robutacion]

G'day everyone,

wheelinround (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=16807) - No worries, I do these marathons up to 4/5/6 am, nearly every day, (sleep disorder), if not here, down in the shed turning.
I'm sorry to disagree with you on your last point, I am a normal general consumer, like yourself and many others, and there are ways to prove the Big Companies wrong. I'm very surprised that "they" done such thing for you, as in my case, I am normally asked "do you have any evidence to what you saying/claiming?, our metters read always right!". Now, does everyone has the determination to sacrifice they money, time and sanity, to fight back the "Big Guys"? no obviously not. If you ask me, is all that worth it?, I Will say, you win some, you lose some...!, but I prefer PEACE.
:cool:

HappyHammer (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=3794) - I know, I'm going to get what I deserve by asking the question but, "water the garden all with what comes out of the fridge" ????. I know that most animals including humans, tent to use a tree or a big shrub, to "water" the soil surface, is that it?:?
Now in relation to getting a power tester from the Power Company, yes you are right but (according to the inventor of Power Mate, the testers that are now available to customers, provided by Councils,(one per Council) is the Power Mate itself). The problem is that, the waiting list on most councils, expends up to one year, some even more!:no:

Frank&Earnest (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=14390)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_665257", true); </SCRIPT> - Thanks F&E, I had 3 hours sleep, so that will do me, for today. Sure we agree on that, we can't always be disagreeable! can't we?
As far as I'm concern, is no price tag for any of the things that I love to do, now with this said, is a big difference in between paying those costs as per agreed and regulated, and been riped-off by scrupulous companies.
The thing is Frank, this is not about me, I just give my example as one of many possibilities, the original question(s) about wood lathe consumption, and later extended to the shed, is a simple exercise of awareness, and discussion of any possible negative experiences some could be experiencing. Be patient Frank, I know you like the quick conclusions, and is nothing wrong with it, it will be a final point at the end of this discussion, but please allow others to discuss their concerns or situation, before we all get to conclusions, is this OK? :wink:
In relation to your last point, yes you right, one have to be able to count for every element that make part of the preferred hobby. I do feel sorry for some people that has some specific hobbies, such as drag racing, boat racing, etc.,(the proper thing, I mean). This is obviously related to the point that I'm trying to make on my original point 3. Lets allow other people to give their thoughts and /or "experiences" on other common hobbies around. You can see, where I'm trying to take this issue to, don't you? In due time Frank, in due time.:2tsup:

SawDustSniffer (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=13575) - Very good point, that was the main reason why I was so interested in buying one. Unfortunately, I had to settle with the model prior, the Nova 1624-44. I don't know anything about the technology put into those motors, I understand the concept but that is not enough. I will continue to target that technology for a possible replacement in the near future, but not for a little while. I would be most interested in making the real power consumption tests with the Power Mate on a DVR - XP. Maybe one day I will be able to access one somewhere...!:D

Cheers
RBTCO

[HappyHammer]

HappyHammer (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=3794) - I know, I'm going to get what I deserve by asking the question but, "water the garden all with what comes out of the fridge" ????. I know that most animals including humans, tent to use a tree or a big shrub, to "water" the soil surface, is that it?:?

Yeah mate the Lemon Tree


Now in relation to getting a power tester from the Power Company, yes you are right but (according to the inventor of Power Mate, the testers that are now available to customers, provided by Councils,(one per Council) is the Power Mate itself). The problem is that, the waiting list on most councils, expends up to one year, some even more!:no:
I spoke to mine today and I picked it up 10 minutes later and it is an actual house meter, spinning disc and all, with a cord to plug into the wall and a socket to plug in the appliance.

Maybe my eletricity supplier is just one of the better ones.:;

HH.

[manoftalent]

two years ago I took stock of all the power going through my place and the biggest headache was lighting ....mostly 850-900 watts per hr being consumed all the time .....then there's the fridge...and chest freezer ....both on 24/7.....at least one of the five tv's running 24/7.....2 pc's ...washing machine, and the drier .....which incidently being so bleedin efficient costs me $1.86 to dry a load :?......and is now unplugged and sign posted "to be used in emergency only".....

so I took action .....

changed all globes to energy efficient neon types....at a cost of $235.....they are still running ok
and I now use 1/6th of the wattage per hr .....so money well invested

I recycle the washing machine water onto my garden and washing is only done on mon-wed-fri......not everyday as before ...incidently ..one washing machine load without rinse cycle ...expels enough water to fill a 55 ltr container ....:o

pc's when not in use are "turned off" instead of "standby mode"....much cheaper.....

no more than one tv on at anytime ....standard rule .....

I have saved more than enough money to run my little workshop 24/7 ...until 2009......not that I have that much time up my sleeve ......

previous quarter bill.....on average $874.40
current quarter bill ...on average $576.15

Our biggest mistake in life is to take things for granted and adopt a lazy attitude ....leaving lights on....or not closing a door .....simple stuff and bad habits cost $$.....

[robutacion]

Hi all,

HappyHammer (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=3794) - I don't know where you live, nor I want to know but, for any Council to have one Power tester available in that short period of time, I've never heard of, lucky you. I haven't seen one of those old power meters, for a long time, they were quite accurate, but not as easy to operate and with as many functions, as the newer ones, but hey, if it is going to do the job, who cares?. I was never trying to sell power testers, nor I ever said that you had to buy one. The point is that, I've made some suggestions, and provided the possibilities, I'm glad that you are taking the suggestion and doing something positive with it, and maybe, the results will surprise you...! :2tsup:

PS: While you got the power tester, use the link attached as a good guide and comparison(s), is actually quite fun and informative.
http://www.agl.com.au/content/athome/guide/sa/index.html

manoftalent (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=15541) - What did you use,(tester) if I may ask?
Was obvious to me, from the very beginning that this thread would bring and widen to a more general concept of power consumption to more than only wood lathes and consequently, working sheds. The principle is the same and apply to everyone. I suppose, one of the bigger motivators to get involved with the details (testing) of your own power consumption, is when the income (money's available) is reduced considerably, and one's habits continue unchanged. Changing habits, does not mean losing your freedom or losing your preferred hobby(ies), just mean you become aware of certain realities, allowing you to make an conscious decision of what to change.
Your example man_of_talent, is a good one, and if someone wonder, what this have to do with my original question? well, claiming to have saved enough power to cover the costs of running the working shed until 2009, and I'm pretty certain that is a wood lathe there somewhere, is very relevant, wouldn't you agree?:;

I should use this opportunity to clear something up. It is possible that in some people minds, I am starting to be seen as some sort of "Greenpeace Warrior" or something else in that line, just let me say that any assumptions of that nature, are indeed very wrong. I have made a living out of hunting (killing animals professionally), cutting trees, to make houses, furniture, paper, wood turnings, firewood and burn wood as a heating source 7 or 8 months each year. I eat red meat, some wild birds, and love kangaroo steak.
I'm sorry if I have disappointed someone, assuming is always a risky uncertainty!

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[robutacion]

Hi again,
I just thought of another issue that I wanted to talk about, and while I'm waiting for some sleeping signs to "knock on my door", is 4:10 am, I'm considerably tired but not sleepy so, lets go!
When I have introduced the Power Mate as the instrument I mainly used for my power tests consumption, due to its accuracy and work simplicity, there are other instruments that can assist you to get enough information for you to work out or consumption tools and appliances. You will need to use the hand calculator with the instrument, which is a simple Clamp-meter available everywhere (sort of). A basic clamp meter will set you back about $50 or even less (eBay, maybe), and are very simple to operate. They are able to read the voltage or amps of the tools or whatever 240V electric you have it connected with, you only need to record by hand those readings and then multiply by the time the tested object is on for. Like I said, it requires a little more time and hand calculations, but will give you answers.
The picture-1 bellow, was taken when I used the clamp meter for the first time, after I have made the wiring preparations for the test. The problem was that the instrument just arrived from Japan, was faulty, and this pic was sent to the manufacturer for meter replacement under warranty. Not the best place to deal with warranty replacements, only due to time taken to go around, but and apart from that, the pic gives a good idea of how to use the instrument. In this case, I improvised the proper little extension I've made to use with all the normal 240V X 10A, only because this "mongrel" air-con, works on 240V but uses 15A plugs on it and on the wall socket. The small extension I have made, allows the clamp meter to go around the positive wire for the readings, as per the pic-1. The only difference is, if you imagine the male plug on the wall socket to be a normal 10A plug, on the other end where I used a junction box, you will put a 10A female plug. The wire is the normal 3 wire insulated power points cable. Just get half a meter or so from the electric store (maybe $2.00 or so) and remove the external insulation only. Grab the earth wire (green&yellow) and cut it in half, leave the other 2 (black-neutral) and (red-positive) with their original length. The only thing left to do is put a 10A male plug on one end, and a 10A female plug on the other end. Remember that the (green&yellow) earth wire is in the middle as per the pic, so that you can curve both black and red wire, in opposite directions. Well the next thing, is only connect the tool/ appliance to the female plug, and insert the male plug into the wall socket or extension box, I would recommend no to use the extension boxes, and plug the tester cable into an available wall socket individually.
Anyway, this is one other way of testing of power consumption, with the add possibility of using the clamp meter as a normal multimeter, and as a temperature gauge (check how hot or how cold is in the shed, motor temperature etc., etc.).

Once again, this is optional.

"Time to hit the fart-sack"
Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[elkangorito]

I recently worked out the approximate electricity cost of running my workshop for another purpose. Here are the details:

The workshop cyclone has a 3HP motor that is rated at 2.24 kW. I have measured the current it is drawing under normal operating conditions and it is using 2.4Amps of its maximum rating of 6Amps. That's 40% of 2.24kWh = 0.896kWh.

The lathe has a 3/4 HP motor that is rated at about 0.56kWh. I estimate that I would on average run it at about 50% capacity. That's 50% of 0.56kWh = 0.28kWh.

My other major item of equipment is a 2HP bandsaw, which also gets used at the same time as the cyclone, but for only brief periods of time. I use a few other smaller power tools, mostly when I'm not using the lathe, plus the odd light, but they do not amount to very much compared to the cyclone and lathe.

So, my combined hourly running cost of the cyclone and the lathe comes to 1.176kWh. Like Frank&Earnest, my Adelaide supplier charges me ~17c/kWh. If I use the main items of equipment for six hours a day the cost is $1.20. Not a major cost compared to everything else.

NeilS, you didn't say that you have 3 phase (415 volts). Obviously you do. Your 3 HP motor (2238 electrical Watts) will use at full load, 5.4 Amps @ 415 volts and 9.3 Amps @ 240 volts. These currents do not represent starting currents & of course, do not take into account the efficiency of the motor & Power Factor.

Firstly, definitive answers to questions that are similar to these, can be gotten if the questions are posted in the PLUMBING, ELECTRICAL, HEATING, COOLING, etc (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/forumdisplay.php?f=78)section.
Secondly, using an induction disc kilowatt-hour meter (a meter with a spinning disc) is by far the cheapest & best way of measuring power consumption. They are cheap to buy, readily available & are easily installed BY AN ELECTRICIAN.
How can you measure power with this device? Very simply. It counts kilowatt hours. If you know how much you are charged per kilowatt hour, simply multiply the meter reading by the amount indicated on the dials for any given period.

Thirdly, all electrical motors have a "starting" current, which is usually 4 to 8 times the value of the running current. See examples below.

Example 1.
What is the estimated maximum starting current of a 240 volt 2.4 kW motor?
2 400 Watts divided by 240 = 10 Amps (full load current or Running Current).
10 Amps multiplied by 8 (worst case scenario) = 80 Amps.

Example 2.
What is the estimated maximum starting current of a 415 volt 2.2 kW motor?
2 200 Watts divided by 415 = 5.3 Amps (full load current or Running Current).
5.3 Amps multiplied by 8 (worst case scenario) = 42 Amps.

As indicated, the less times you turn a motor on & off (in a short period of time), the less current is used, which will result in a reduced power consumption.

The above calculations do not take into account motor efficiency & Power Factor but are nonetheless indicative of real situations.

"Special" power measuring devices are not required to measure the power usage in any domestic situation. A standard "Induction disc" kilowatt-hour meter will do the job perfectly.

[HappyHammer]

"Special" power measuring devices are not required to measure the power usage in any domestic situation. A standard "Induction disc" kilowatt-hour meter will do the job perfectly.
My point exactly. Here's the one Country Energy gave me.

HH.

[manoftalent]

the only test I saw was the size reduction in my bill...good enough for me :2tsup:

[robutacion]

G'day everyone,

elkangorito (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=19070)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_665784", true); </SCRIPT> - Thank you so much for "coming over", and give as a hand with this general issue. I accept your observation about part of this topic, could have been discussed and expended under the topic you recommend (PLUMBING, ELECTRICAL, HEATING, COOLING, etc.), on the other hand would have made it all very confusing to jump from section to section, when the main issue of this thread relates to wood lathes, later extended to sheds and recently went as far as the power meter at the main house. I believe, the thread is in the right section (only applicable), and I perfectly understand your point. The Truth is, you jumped over to our spot, giving us some needed advice, and keeping things uncomplicated, which I appreciate. I would go even further, and request your collaboration and possible clarification to matters in discussion, as I'm no certified/qualified electrician, I just know a little!:2tsup:

HappyHammer (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=3794) - "Here's the one Country Energy gave me."
OK, so you didn't get it from the Council, but from your Power Supplier!
That maybe explain it. In any case, you got a good instrument, make the best of it, while you have it!:;

manoftalent (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=15541) - Way to go...!, you done it almost blind folded, and by doing some smart thinking. Congratulations, you done it in the hard way, all rewards will be even more appreciated, huh? What ever it works...!:U

-------------------------------(((*)))-------------------------------

OK so, we got a bit done on the point 1 & 2 of my original question (thread), time to focus a little on the point No. 3- "Compare the costs of wood turning as a hobby, against other common hobbies around. (This is a positive incentive, targeting new turners)."
A great number of people considering taking wood turning as a hobby, are confronted with some important questions, which we witness in this forum so regularly. The obvious first cost considerate is the lathe itself, followed by some chisels, probably a chuck and a few other bits. Those are what is considered the initial costs. Often enough, I get the impression from those new "want_to_be" turners, of all ages that, believe the hobby is too expensive. In their minds, starting with the cost of setting up with minimals is too high, then concerns are raised in regards to the extra power necessary to run the whole show. All this becomes too much, too expensive, "I can't afford it", and they just move away from one of the most rewarding things one can achieve, (wood turning)!

This is all very wrong, and the reason to my thread, hoping that I will be able to put some real value into the whole thing, and demystify (myth), the hiden costs, and any other wrong perceptions about starting the hobby.

Why am I doing all this?, one would ask! Am I rich?. No I am not, I live out of a disability pension, only, without any other sources of income, money received from a few turning sales, have only covered for 15% of my setting up costs and ongoing weekly expenses (timber oils, sand papers, sealants, glues and more glues, etc.,) since retired in 2005. My careful expenses calculations and possible savings from any source (including the power consumption), does allow me to continue to do, one of the most relaxing, rewarding, and exciting things I've experience in my working life. I am not new to timber, indeed I was born surrounded by forest. I started working with timber at the age of 8 (eight), at 12, I was "grading/marking" (selecting threes for house construction or for furniture manufacturing) cutting them (trees), take them to a mill, and operate every single piece of machinery existent in a milling shed and later on, using that timber for making all sorts of furniture, including finishings required.

I think this puts me in a good position to appreciate what timber as to offer, at many levels. Is my believe that anyone can start wood turning, with all minimal accessories and tools, for lets say $500.00. The power necessary to run the lathe, bench grinder, drill, and lights, etc., will be less then buying a can of soft-drink per day, indeed, any power consumption coming from the working shed, can become free, you only need to do your own consumption tests at the main house, and I am very certain that the power consumption changes you will implement, will pay for any power used in the shed (wood turning, etc.,). Please refer to others examples already shared in this thread.

The way I see it is, if $500 get you turning, $1.000 will give a better set up, and for every $500 you put into your turning, you will be climbing the better set-up ladder, that one more step. Getting around the $5/6 grant, you will pretty much set-up with the best of the best. Now, lets create a "medium" set-up/running costs for start wood turning, at about... $2.500, with a life expectancy of about 10 years. This equals $2.500:10(years):12 months, total= under $21 per month.

Lets transfer this amount into my original point 3, and compare it with other common hobbies around, i.e. (fishing, hunting, drinking, smoking, drug use, drag racing, mountain biking, snowboarding, skating, motor racing, dirty magazines, silly Cd's, downloading music, text messaging, going out, mobile useless calls, etc., etc., etc., do I need to go on?:no:

Have you done any calculations yet? please tell us!

So, do you still think that is too expensive, do you still can't afford it?
SERIOUSLY?

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[robutacion]

Hello everyone,

I'm surprised that no one made any comments to the material collected on my point 3. Going back to the original thread subject, the question(s) were divided into 3 points. According to everyones comments, it will reasonable to separate and organise all the opinions into their respective point so;

Point -1 Q) Are people real aware of the costs of running a lathe?
A) No, not really, only a fairly minority have conducted power consumption tests, or any type of costs involved with running a wood lathe, and/or anything else that runs with it, (lights, etc.).
The costs resulting from the costs value used, is of about $21.00 per month. For anyone thinking is starting wood turning, I believe these figures are quite "inviting" and reasonable.

Point -2 Q) Where to buy, where to rent, where to request a power
consumption tester, and how to do the testes!
A) Most certainly this point was well discussed, from the used equipment recommendations and functionality, to other products recommended throughout this discussion, it become obvious that you don't need to buy a testing instrument, if you don't want to. There are economical and not so economical test instruments available for those who wish to own their own gadgets.

Point -3 Q) Is the hobby of wood turning any more expensive then most
other common hobbies?
A) Interestingly, no one (that I remember), did give any evident and comparing costs from many other everyday hobbies humans have. Maybe some feel embarrassed to reveal such "hobbies/habits", when others have no hobbies at all, sure...!
I just don't see the problem, in not providing some other habits/hobbies costs, so that possible (New_Want_To_ Be_turners) can feel comfortable and confident in taking this new step in their life's...! shame.
As far I'm concern, I will give a few examples for you.
* Fishing per year cost me $1.000.
* Hunting per year cost me $3.000.
* Tool shopping frenzy per year costs me $1.500
* Wood turning per year cost me $3.500
* Cutting trees and firewood per year costs me $2.000
* Computing, Internet, etc., per year cost me $1.000
* Gardening per year cost me $1.000
* Going for a ride on my quad bike per year cost me $1.000
* Smoking (until recently) per year costs me $7.200
* Drinking (not anymore) per year costs $3.600
* Gambling per year costs me $150
* Coffee drinking per year costs me $480

This should be more than enough, to get an idea of what my point is/was form the very start. I did no ask anyone to reveal in detail their "hobbies", but simply the approx. costs. I'm not criticising any hobby types one can have, that's their choice, their expense, their problem!
This has nothing to do with people's choices and personal freedom's, this was a simple EXPENSE EXERCISE to provide some facts to those who need it!
By the way, in my days of "bush" work, with white or black fellows, my rule number 2 was, "2 cans per day per man perhaps" !

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[wheelinround]

Like someone said once you head this direction it no longer becomes a hobby but a worry

cost for every hobby vary

I keep a close eye on what ever I do or have done

stamps photography vintage cars minature cars computers many have gone by the wayside

wood turning wasn't a hobby it was to give me an outlet and become a passion

[DavidG]

Too much talk, not enough turning.

[manoftalent]

We worry way to much about costs, some to the point that nothing is done about it, and to others the brakes are applied before a project gets off the ground ....well my thoughts are simple ....we have one life, so we might as well enjoy it while it lasts, keeping a eye on the bottom line brings some sanity into what we do, but it doesnt need to spoil it either.

[Calm]

wood turning wasn't a hobby it was to give me an outlet and become a passion


Too much talk, not enough turning.

I agree, each persons reason for using a lathe/woodworking is different. You can estimate, calculate or cost out the power, depreciation, materials etc and end up with any figure you like.

BUT

You cant calculate, estimate or cost out what the "hobby" does for peice of mind by creating a challenge, giving personal stress release, leaving the turner with the satisfaction they have acheived something or the fact that a happy turner is a lot easier for the rest of the family to put up with.

The only thing that really matters is that the hobby is doing what it was started to do and the cost/expenditure (as long as it is affordable) is totally incidental/irrelavant to the outcome.

[Sarge]

I think your losing sight of the big picture.

We turn wood because we enjoy it, it's an outlet from the stress of life, all hobbies cost money, but you have to measure the cost's against the benefits.

I don't think the meager cost of running a lathe and a bit of wood could be measured against the enjoyment we get in return.

Just my opinion

[robutacion]

:D
Hi all,

Thanks everyone for the comments.
I believe reasonable to claim that taking on wood turning in general, is affordable and rewarding.
How affordable?, $500 get you started, and $1 a day, keeps you going!
How rewarding?, keeps ones sanity, gives you some private time, recharges your batteries, relaxing, challenging, creative, noisy, dusty, nerve wrecking, frustrating and some times dangerous, all at the same time!:oo:
As a job, money maker... not a chance:no:
As a part time revenue maker...waste of time
As a big investment hobby... you have to be able to afford it
As a small investment hobby... works well for most people, it doesn't brake the bank balance, economic to maintain, "Presents" money saver, fills the house with ornaments keeping the wife happy, gives you a good reason to buy a chainsaw, saves a few visits to the Doctor and Chemist, "late nights" no longer means you're sleeping with the "secretary", and if you lucky, you maybe sell the odd bowl, giving you just enough money to buy the next small tin of timber oil. In all, I wouldn't have in any other way! I'm addicted!:2tsup:

By the way DavidG, I don't know about yourself but, I turn 7 days a week (unless I'm in bed unable to move, happen often..!), finish at least 5 pieces every week and actually today, I've rough turned and sealed 2 large size bowls so, I had my saw dust dosage for the day :D.

Cheers
RBTCO

[hughie]

[




This should be more than enough, to get an idea of what my point is/was form the very start. I did no ask anyone to reveal in detail their "hobbies", but simply the approx. costs. I'm not criticising any hobby types one can have, that's their choice, their expense, their problem!
This has nothing to do with people's choices and personal freedom's, this was a simple EXPENSE EXERCISE to provide some facts to those who need it!


Fair enough, its always good to have some idea of what things cost. I did a few mental calcs some time back just to see what was what.No big deal, just a mental excercise. SWHMBO is a bean counter......:U

As for making a quid out of it, well, to date it has paid for its self and I am happy with that :U Along with the fact I make a lot of my own gear as a extension of the wood turning hobby, this tends to keep the numbers down.