How to paint, repair then repaint boats with a minimum of labour

[bitingmidge]

I have just extended this thread forward and backward in time by copying stuff mostly from the PDRacer building thread. So if some things seem familiar that is why.
The PDRacer sailboat building thread is here. (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=28107)

This information is based around using quality marine paint systems for a really durable and really good looking job.

Trouble is, a decent paint means that every little imperfection is going to stand out somewhat, whereas a brushed-on latex would cover it all up. We aren't building showboats here by a long shot, so I've had to find a balance between getting an "alright" finish, and sanding and filling till the cows come home.

So a few more sanding sessions this week, a bit of bogging, a bit more sanding, and we're ready to see how high the highbuild will build!

Pics:
1) Sanding pretty much done. Even though it looks really ugly and lumpy at this stage, the hulls are pretty much smooth as a baby's bum. If you remember a couple of pages ago http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showpost.php?p=266725&postcount=18 is how the hulls looked just epoxied and bogged. Now you'll note that all the fill is gently feathered into it's surrounds, the tape is filled level with the surface, and things generally look ok. There are a few dips and hollows which on a showboat I'd fair out, but hopefully everyone will be looking at the starry sailing!

2) Late one night I cut the gunwhales a bit short (before we'd decided to plant the bow over the top of the sides actually!) which resulted in this gruesome corner. On a painted boat, fixups are really easy, and no reason to panic, or slash one's wrists.

3) One dollop of bog later, (on each of four corners!) a bit of sanding, and no one will ever know. Well no one that hasn't read this thread anyway.

4) The front half of the garage is now vacuum cleaned and wet mopped, as are the boats, in a reasonable facsimile of a spray booth, except for the ventilation, lighting and a few other mod cons. It'll do the job, and yes I do have the proper cartridges for my respirator.

The door will be closed, but it's still part of a large space so for such a small job I shouldn't get into too much trouble.

5) The cockpit is to be varnished, so it's neatly masked off and we're all set to go tomorrow night now.

Then on Saturday, I guess it's back to sanding!

Cheers,

P
:D :D :D

[bitingmidge]

Sheesh, Sixpence is being sprayed on the back LAWN.
Sheer bloody luxury I'd say... a LAWN!!!

I just have these nightmares about white and yellow overspray all over our BLACK concrete driveway!!

Tonight's the night!

P
:D

[bitingmidge]

Nice work BM. Why don’t we partner in smuggling people into Australia? A boat like that can take 30 people no problem.

Maaaate! Have I got a deal for you! We're going to paint them yellow too! ;)

In the meantime, the highbuild is on, my keyboard has white fingerprints on it :eek: :eek: , and Michael is back with his boot fair up my bot wondering why they aren't finished!

Tomorrow, I'm away, he's back to sanding :D :D :D , then the second coat of highbuild tomorrow night if all goes well..

Cheers,

P

[Wood Butcher]

The painting looks great Peter. Just a thought on the mast hole. What about putting a rubber boot on the mast to limit water ingressing through the hole?

[bitingmidge]

What about putting a rubber boot on the mast to limit water ingressing through the hole?

We've talked about that at length! :rolleyes: Mik is a lot less concerned than I in that regard, as it is unlikely that the boats will be sailed in rugged conditions too often, but here is our consensus to date:

The mast partner http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=20325&d=1141563099 screws over the hole in a position to suit the mast rake, and I'll probably do a "dry" silicone gasket under it, so the upstand will take care of pretty much all deck water trying to slosh in.

The mast and the hole in the partner are a fairly close fit (or were when we last tried them), with less than a mm tolerance, so in heavy conditions one could simply tape the gap with race-tape, or we've also discussed making a boot out of motorcycle inner tube, or simply finding an "O" ring that fits tightly on the mast, and sliding it down against the partner.

I think our consensus at the moment is that we'll do nothing until it's a problem, and if it is, we know how to fix it!

(it turned out to be not a problem at all as the foredeck never gets close to the water because of the sheer of the OZ PDRs and in a capsize the hole is well away from the water and the boats don't want to turn turtle because the masts are so light and buoyant.

Cheers,

P
:D

[bitingmidge]

Ahh yes, well spotted Rowan!

Sadly for the forums, for other reasons we've gone all Puddleduckie with the names, but in our hearts we all know.. nudge nudge ;) ;) .

As it turns out, Michael happened to let slip that he doesn't mind a bit of the old wet 'n dry, so never one to disappoint a guest, I hauled him off to Bunnies in the dead of night to get some supplies, and this morning, pointing to two boats in the corner, mumbled something like " and they'd better be finished before I get home from work or else..".

He must have heard me! :o :o :o
Pics:

1) After the first coat of highbuild, we've used a bit of good old car bog for the minor touch-ups, although this hull has had a bit of sanding, basically here's what it looks like, ready to take off most of the last coat of paint!

2) A wet rag to act as a water reservoir, a cork pad with some 180 grit wet and dry wrapped round it, and a boat.... what more could a boy ask for? Well a few drops of detergent in the water to "wet it out" a bit, and a heap of pencil scrawls over the surface. When the pencil marks have gone, you know you've sanded far enough!

3) As sanding progresses, the paint gets decidedly thinner looking in spots, actually it's levelling out, taking out the minor bumps and lumps in the surface.

4) Sigh! All done, and ready for another coat. If we were going for a piano finish here, we'd do it again, but this is well and truly far enough for these boats. We could have been sailng for a week if we'd just rolled on some housepaint! :eek:

5) Yep! Start all over again! This time a light coat, a light sanding then some colour next!

Yes it all looks time consuming and it is. There are lots of other ways of doing this, but since we have the spray equipment at our disposal, (and I have Michael at mine! ;) ) This is a pretty easy way of getting a reasonably workmanlike finish.

The top coat will tell though! :cool: :cool: :cool:

Cheers for another night,

P
:D

[bitingmidge]

Well chaps, the good ships "WALKS like a duck" and "TALKS like a duck" took to the water today!

They aren't finished, still need to be painted in their Duckling Yellow livery, but we needed to see how they'd go, and I'm pleased to report :"Swimmingly!"

I may not have time to update this thread tomorrow, and there are a few gaps, which we've recorded, but I need to go through the photos, so in the meantime for a glimpse of them on-water, go to http://tinyurl.com/jccjm

Check back later for the remaining construction stuff though, and hopefully next weekend for the finished product!

Cheers,

P (happy chappy!)

[bitingmidge]

Well I may have accidentally not done any work on the original PDRacers for a year now, which means of course that with a bit over a month till the Nationals at Goolway, there's a bit of work to do to finish them off.

This actually turned out to be a bit fortuitous on two counts, firstly we can fix the scrapes and nicks of a year of abuse, and secondly I can con Boatmik to come up here and do the work!

So here we are, one month to go, with two boats to paint, two new masts to build, two new sails to make, a trailer to rebuild, oh and no :oo: I've sold the tow car as well!

Anyway while I've been rebuilding the Goat Island Skiff trailer to suit a couple of PDR's (and to make it tough enough for 5000 k's via Cunnamulla, Bourke, Broken Hill - I didn't say our navigation was any good!), Mik's been in the garage:

1) Two primed boats, undercoated, patched and sanded.... Mik starting to think our invitation for his visit was really a trap!

2) Thankfully he finds painting quite relaxing, fortunately he's also very good at it. We decided against spraypainting because: I'd have to do it (and we all know how long that would take) and: brushing gives a great finish within everyone's means and abilities, with a bit of care.

3) The blue pox descends on the fleet. Michael marks all the bits that need particular attention after the first topcoat, and sands with 180 grit on the ROS.

4) Second coat goes on, and Mik continues his meditation

5) Beautiful!!!

Cheers,

P:D

[Boatmik]

Thanks Midge for not picking one of the ones where I was sticking my tongue out!

MIK
http://www.pdracer.info

[bitingmidge]

Thanks Midge for not picking one of the ones where I was sticking my tongue out!

MIK
I have no idea what you mean!

P
:p :p :p

[Boatmik]

I have no idea what you mean!

P
:p :p :p

DOH!

[Daddles]

Soooo ... Mik's staying with Midge ... and they're abusing each other on the forum :?

What was the fight about boys? :D

Richard

[bitingmidge]

It's harder than you think!

Every time I go to log on, the cable is plugged in to HIS computer :oo: (and vice versa). So replying to one another is a serious logistic nightmare!

The road to Goolwa is soon to be paved with little yellow boats!

P
:D :D :D

[bitingmidge]

A somewhat sobering look at the actual costs:

While Michael's been here and hard at work turning the white primer coats of the boats into a nice shiny yellow, and the new the new white polytarp arrived for the new sails yesterday, a special Duck Flat purchase that's much better than the old blue ones. Cost $35 per sail though,
nearly $20 more than the old blue ones (ouch!:wink: ).

We're about to build two new masts to the new plans (there goes another former pergola :D ). This will be useful as I never did get round to fixing
the one we broke, so we've had to resort to sailing one boat and towing the other for quite some time now.

The trailer is almost together again.

I pick up the new car tomorrow (didn't have anything that could tow a trailer any distance with any guarantee of arriving in one piece).

So far the costs of the "cheapest boat in the world to build" look something like this:-

Two PDRacers (each) say $300.00 (well we've replaced the masts and sails and painted them in a really nice marine paint after all).

Fix the boat trailer - $250 in parts, tyres, bits and pieces (originally cost $40.00 twelve years ago.)

Car to tow the thing with (new Suzuki Grand Vitara) $32,000.

6,000 kilometre round trip to the first Australian PDR Championships in Goolwa,10-12 March, through the inland, and back via the Great Ocean Road, Gippsland Lakes and the Victorian Alpine country......PRICELESS.

If nothing else, I'm hoping to pick up a PDRacer record for the furthest travelled to a regatta this year, and maybe one or two other things along the way!

Cheers,

P
:D :D :D

[bitingmidge]

The road trip begins....

In the meantime I have a bunch of pictures to upload, more on sailmaking, "how to" on el-cheapo signwriting using photo-copy stencils, and so on, but it will all have to wait till the grand adventure ends one way or another!

So on to the trailer:

When I built the Goat Island Skiff 12 years ago, I scrounged an old rusted box trailer for free, and bought two lengths of second hand pressed steel roofing purlin for $40.00. One weekend later I had a perfectly good boat trailer using all the running gear and even the rusty mudguards from the oldie.

Roll on a decade or so, and with the new need to tow two boats around 6,000k, it needed work!

Firstly I gave it new springs and bearings, then put a ply "floor" down to try to minimise damage from stones. I bought a tin tool box for $40.00 from Supercheap which is big enough to house all the boards, lifejackets, paddles, sails etc, and screwed it to the floor. This will hopefully also put enough weight onto the trailer to stop it being blown off the road everytime a road train passes in the other direction!

The trailer was designed for a 16 footer of course, so it has a longish drawbar, perfect for opening the back door on the Suzi without hitting anything!

Spars are bundled in polytarp and on the roofrack.

By the way, one boat fits perfectly upside down on a standard 6 x 4 trailer, so don't fret, if you don't own a fleet, you won't need any of this.

Pics:

1) The load. Rakish angle is produced by the need to get the transoms up high enough to fit the tool box under the hulls!

2) It pays to advertise! Back panel is easily removable to convert the trailer back to carry the GIS.

3) Old sheet of ply on the front will hopefully prevent sandblasting of the paint. The colour looks a bit like an Australian landscape, but it was really left over after I've been spraying some lattice a few years ago.

4) Each boat is tied using ratchet ties, normally I'd use rope and a truckie's hitch, but I needed a really simple solution, and passing the ties through holes in the beams located everything easily.

For a real nautical look, I added Baggywrinkles over the ratchet bits to prevent scratches!

5) Given the whole classy presentation of the rig, I thought a couple of fins would set it all off, so a few minutes work with a bit of old formply was all it took!

Now of course comes the test!

How far will we get?? :oo:

Cheers,

P
:D :D :D

[Boatmik]

Howdy...

Remember how the BitingMidge and his partner Jo drove down to Adelaide to sail the PD Racers in the Goolwa Wooden Boat Festival?

They went the long hard way - after all they were on holiday ...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2378/2199247886_7b7e079e4d.jpg

Well the two boats suffered more than slightly. Happily most of the damage was superficial - though some was quite deep in the ply.

Now, the boats have been stored outside on the trailer for a year without those grazes and dings being repaired. So as I am up here staying with Midge and Jo I am doing a quick two day repair and maintenance and patch repaint job on the boats.

The point is to get the timber all protected again with at least two coats of epoxy

Fill any dents with epoxy and an easy to sand filling powder
Sand smooth
Patch undercoat (the purpose of undercoat is to make the piebald colours disappear under a coat of white
Patch top coat with yellow so it matches
If I was going on to do a really schmick job I would then sand the whole hull lightly and add one additional coat of yellow to bring everything up to the same colour. The result would be two "as new" boats.

I'm hoping I will get it all done today (right now the epoxy and coating is curing)

So I am photo-ing and posting some comments here to show my approach.

First of all - the pics below are of the damage - to set the scene.

1/ most of the bad damage were as stones got caught between the hull and the supports on the trailer - they wore their way through - only badly in a few places. The worst area is this one - the ply is worn through a couple of layers in one spot. Luckily there is a supporting gluing member so there is no structural problem.

If the timber was not behind I would be filling the hollow and putting a thin layer of glass over the affected area to give it more structural continuity.

This was how the boats were when Midge got to Goolwa - so we simply covered any damaged areas with duct tape or brown plastic packaging tape - this is the general form of these types of damage that people use in regattas if they need to sail the next day - cover it with tape!!! Which is what we did for our world PDRacer speed record.

The tape does leave an adhesive residue when it is on for a long period which is some of the brown colour. At this stage I am not sure what will remove it - but I will start with turps and then try some more vigourous thinners if that doesn't work - or maybe it will be thin enough to just sand off.
64993
2/ The second one is of the stone chips on the decks. Midge put a whole sheet of ply over the top of the trailer chassis so stones were unlikely to hit the boat. Sadly he underestimated the number of stones that would be involved. The side decks proximal to the wheels were the worst hit - the stones were bouncing round inside the mudguards but some would bounce several times and then shoot out at strange angles.
64986
3/ This is the bottom - which faced upwards - how it got chipped so badly ... we don't really know!!!
64987
4/ First step is to sand any damaged areas. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING is not to go through the undercoat to the wood - so I will always stop sanding when I get to the white. If there is more damage below that I will fill up to the surface with the epoxy/filler mix.
64988
5/ This is as far as I would ever sand for this type of repair.
64989
6/ Here is some packaging tape residue.
64990
7/ Clean up with turpentine and elbow grease - it worked. You can use more powerful solvents like acetone etc - but only on older paintwork - new paintwork may blister instantly. Even with older paintwork I would make sure the acetone comes off the surface very quickly and check the paint for softening.
64991
8/ This gives some idea of how much surface I am not painting - the more yellow parts are sanded.
64992
That's it for now - I'll put more up later.

Michael Storer

(Michael realised that he did all the painting and took the photos and never finished this thread)

[bitingmidge]

I love it when Mik comes to stay!

P
:D:D:D

[Boatmik]

OVERVIEW

Now the secret of this paint job is that ... I DONT want to do lots of painting.

I have told you all that I am lazy .. so it is time you started believing me (the evidence is that the photos are almost 8 months old!!!!).

Before getting too involved have a really careful look at the photos above. Most boat owners would be horrified about these deep gouges all over the hulls. The outer veneer has been worn through in numerous places, some places the ply has been dented.

The really interesting thing is that there is nil, zero, zip, zilch structural damage indicating the right structure is in the right places.

So we just have to do a good job to keep water out of the structure in the long term, make it smooth and get it all the same colour.

So ... my intention is not to repaint the whole boats .. after all they were only painted 4 months before so I will



Sand any bumps and to provide a key for epoxy/filler/paint to stick.
Epoxy seal any bare timber with three coats
Fill any dents with epoxy filler and sand smooth
Undercoat and sand the epoxy or any bare undercoat in other areas and sand
Patch gloss paint with the yellow to cover undercoat
Do one coat over the whole boat to even everything up

1/ Sanding
So ... here we goes. The surface has been sanded only where needed here is the bottom view and the top view. The tape was only there to help me remember where to stop. This is not as unimportant as it seems. The trick is to minimise labour at every point

So I have been VERY careful not to sand any areas that are not damaged. I have sanded close to where any repairs will be needed or where different layers of paint have been worn through.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3040/2888971793_246ce8d188.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3181/2889804890_e032032dc4.jpg

2/ The next step is to find any bare wood and coat it with epoxy.
I put the boats on their least damaged surfaces and made sure that no epoxyied areas would touch anything. this allowed me to do the epoxy coating in one go by doing the coats wet on wet.

Note how I minimise work by making sure the epoxy doesn't go where I don't need it.

Info on wet on wet epoxy application method (http://www.storerboatplans.com/Faq/precoatingsheets.html) is here

I seldom use masking tape for this type of work as it means that all the different coats finish at the edge of the tape leaving a high visible edge. Doing it my way means that the edges of the different coats will not line up so it reduces sanding at the next point.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3186/2888971855_d13b409f65.jpg

Put one coat on and wait for it to go tacky, then do a second coat and wait for it to go tacky then the third coat. The coats DO NOT NEED TO BE THICK.

Here is the second coat ...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3186/2888971855_d13b409f65.jpg

See how neat I am not to increase the area that is wetted with the epoxy.:sad3:

If you are not planning to use epoxy then you could either use


a bare timber primer from the paint system you are using (this is best if the boat is going to spend long periods in the water, or
you can use some of the white undercoat but thin it about 25% with turps (this is OK if it is a small boat or canoe that will not be kept in the water).

3/ Filling with bog and sanding smooth.

I have just made this a little bit more complicated because I am now covering epoxy and non epoxy methods.

The difference is that with any epoxy process you can save heaps of time if you use wet on wet application. This means that if you want to save the maximum amount of time the filler has to go in while it is all wet. it is the same product but with lightweight thickening powder added (Q-cels or lightweight easy to sand filler from your supplier)

BUT

If you used primer or thinned undercoat ... now you have to wait until tomorrow when it is dry. Then give it a light sand ready for a polyester car bog (try to get one that is not too dark a colour when mixed) for boats that will be kept out of the water or if it is going
to be kept in the water you may as well fill with epoxy and the lighweight filler.

so back to the epoxy method ... mix the resin and hardener in the right ratio and then add the thickening powder.

When the right amount of powder is added the mix will not slump but it is quite pliable. In this next pic see how the swirls hold their form ... if the epoxy looks wet or slumps you need more powder. And exception might be if all the filling you have to do is on a horizontal surface ... then maybe it doesn't need to be this thick.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3005/2889805038_78eb346ca6.jpg

You can see that Peter's surplus of subway cups has come in quite useful.

You need something with a clean edge to do neat filling. The nice thing about quality epoxy systems is that the epoxy doesn't shrink as it cures as there are no solvents to evaporate. There will be no absorbtion by the wood in this method because of the coats that were done earlier.

(but if using the non epoxy car bog you need to overfill significantly as the bog will shrink)

Peter uses his AMEX Gold (GOD) card to show the US Financial system what he really thinks of it. This is one place where plastic is king ... plywood cannot be made smooth enough to leave a good surface .. so any piece of plastic with a smooth edge is fine.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3209/2888971967_2682d1e7b3.jpg

This type of angle means that the area will not be overfilled. the result should look like

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3127/2889805134_3733b7c5d0.jpg

Remember the part with the really bad stone chips all very close together. Don't fill individually but fill in one swoop being very careful not ot overfill. A slightly more liquid mix can work better in this situation, but I have so much to do I don't want to make up several mixes. So I use a lot of pressure to make sure the minimum overfill is left in the pockmarks.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3137/2889805256_b24cc9155e.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3046/2888972039_83f449ea30.jpg

We lost some of the radius off the nose of the boat so a different filling strategy is required.

When you do flat fills like the above you need to minimise excess as the sandpaper and block will ride up over them and make the sanding VERY laborious.

However on the nose there is a narrow area much of the width of the foredeck. So we build up a good amount of bog just where it is needed. The small surface area and the radiussed area will make it easy to sand quickly with coarse paper on a block without damaging any of the surrounding area.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3140/2889805212_df68e6dfd5.jpg

Now sanding the bog the next day must be done with a sanding block and probably a alumina paper of around 150grit.

I did not use a machine sander because they will cut too fast and remove too much paint from around the filled areas. If you are really sure you can do it with a sander then give it a try ... but promise me .. the first time you go through all the paint to bare wood that you will put the sander down and say "Michael was so right on this! Say it three times.

I have to apologise .... but I didn't take any photos of this section of the work so here is me using a sanding block in an earlier phase ... just so you know I can. DONT use water as is shown in this pic!!!! This type of sanding is best done dry.

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=84512&d=1143638796

So everything has to be nice and flat and DON'T sand any areas that dont need sanding at this point. Just the filled areas.

Next we will look at the undercoating!

Michael Storer

[Boatmik]

4/ Undercoating and sanding.

OK Class! Who knows the purpose of undercoat?

Well .. seeing you were all so slow ... the purpose of undercoat is to turn the boat into a single opaque colour so you cannot see colour variations between bits that are timber, bog or paint.

Now just going back a step ... this is going to be a Patch Undercoat job. Remember I am trying to reduce the amount of effort for myself. So I am only going to put undercoat where the boat is not yellow!!!

There is no point in putting undercoat where the boat is already the final colour. If the boat is quite piebald then there is a good argument for as many coats of undercoat that are required to make the colour go even.

So this is what a patched undercoat section looks like.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3146/2889805368_20dbd1d283.jpg

Do you see something interesting. If you look carefully you will see that some of the yellow outside the undercoat is a lighter colour than the rest. That is the area that was sanded when the filler was smoothed down.

I am very careful only to place the undercoat where it is needed ... on bits that are not yellow. Sorry if I repeat this ... but I am saving you work! THINK before you put down the undercoat. Sometimes the undercoat might be dry enough to sand on the same day, but if it is not hot summer weather it is unlikely. If the first coat was dry and you needed a second coat a bit later to get the undercoat opaque then it definitely will not be ready until tomorrow.

Finer paper ... while I used 120 to 150 grit for sanding down the bog, now I am down to about 320 grit to sand the undercoat.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3220/2888972263_78bd0c1d2d.jpg

BUT keep the finer paper away from any corners ... it will go straight through all layers to the wood below in a moment.

So lets see what happens as we do a section. This is before sanding.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3264/2888972311_b09322504c.jpg

This is after I have sanded the flat areas using the sandpaper and block. Note the light colour of some of the yellow which shows how I limit the amount of sanding.

Note too that I have not touched the corner of the deck or the narrow edge of the gunwale. I am waiting for the fresh sandpaper to go blunt.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3180/2889805532_2fb8c61d0b.jpg

Once I have done the flat area on top of the deck I then look at the narrow flat on the side of the gunwale. The area is narrow so it will sand too quickly .. so I have swapped to old sandpaper and have my head down low and close to the surface So I will stop if the undercoat starts looking thin and transparent. Timber will appear from below as a shadow.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3281/2889805628_b1e1194c43.jpg

Finally I will ditch the block of wood and use the blunt paper around the radius of the corner and try to stop before anything bad happens. I just do one light stroke and then look for bad signs and then another if it seems ok. Maybe it is just one light sweep with the paper to do the corner.

With this pic ... I have gone a little bit too far .. see how you can see a shadow of the timber underneath as a darker colour. Also note the limited extent of the sanding all the flat surface is done with a block.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3001/2889805816_b8550328dd.jpg

I am being a good boy.

5/ Patch gloss paint

So it is all sanded ready to cover ONLY the undercoat with a first coat of gloss (yellow in this case).

It is the same method as with the undercoat except for two differences

a/ the gloss is much slower drying .. don't consider putting a second coat over the first coat on the same day.
b/ the gloss is much THINNER than undercoat so even more care with sanding this time.

When finished covering the white let the paint dry. Next day all the flat surface of the boat can be sanded ... by machine with find paper if you are REALLY careful. DON'T use the machine on gunwale edges or corners .. you will go through in a millisecond.

I have used bits of tape to remind myself to be careful in those areas.

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=84496&d=1169971142

And finally .. finally the last coat goes on. Remember I do vertical strokes on the vertical surfaces.

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=84497&d=1169971142

Finally two resplendent boats!!!!

I am lazy .. but I can do a nice job of painting!!!!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3067/2888972649_c94fc1bfaf.jpg

Best wishes
Michael Storer

Just compiled some links to useful boat repair articles ... mostly to do with plywood (http://www.storerboatplans.com/Faq/repairresources.html)

[STEPHEN MILLER]

Have just started sanding back , filling, sanding , etc the deck and cabin of my yacht Mik and Midge look like they could do with a bit of practice dont want those skills getting lost :U

[BobWes]

Mik, excellent how-to tutorial! Thanks.

One of the subtle lessons for me is that - contrary to what I've been told - yellow is a viable color! Yes, while still in that mid-planning mode of mine, yellow is the current leading candidate for my GIS. What kind of paint did you use?

Bob

[PAR]

Has anyone tried the newer WR-LPU paints, like System Three's products? Cool stuff and much easier and cheaper to apply.

It likes humidity, unlike other paints, a humid day permits you to keep a wet edge longer. It dries fast, real fast so thin it according to temperature (and humidity). On a hot, dry day it can cure on the brush, before it gets to the surface. Thankfully, I'm in a humid area and this helps a lot.

It dries hard, like all LPU's, but it's about half the cost of the brand names, like AwlGrip and there's no solvents to fool with (or breath), no respirators, clean air supplies, etc. Cleans up with soap and water, etc. so saving a brush is easy.

I'm using System Three on a current project and this is my first go 'round with WR-LPU. It works great and I've been able to tint it with powered, water based tints. The manufacture says I'm not supposed to be able to do this, but, damn, it's water soluble, how tough can it be. Now, on their side of the coin, they're suggesting the LPU side of the formula requires special pigments, etc., but I did a few scratch tests and it's stuck good with a dissolved tint too.

It can go over an epoxy base without primer (cool) although again the manufacture says only over their epoxy as a base (please . . .), but I know they're re-formulators of bisphenol A, just like everyone else, so come on.

Michael, did you get my "Floom" email?

[Boatmik]

Howdy Paul,

Yes ... got the email.

People here have had very variable results with water based paints. Even down to one side of the boat going really nicely and the other ending up quite rough.

Everything else you say about them is true in terms of toughness and long life.

And much better for health too.

Did you learn any tricks or have any advice after going through the process?

MIK

[PAR]

Yep, keep the humidity up, which isn't a problem here in Florida during the summer months. Some experience with other low viscosity paints is helpful as well.

Unlike most paints that have a substantial amount of body, the LPU's and WR-LPU's are thin naturally and get thinner when you cut it for the conditions (warmer temperatures require more solvent, etc.). Also be aware of the conditions, in relation to the "ideals" stated on the label. If you're painting in conditions 15% hotter then the drying times listed on the label, then you need to thin it additionally so it will "flow" for you. These paints also have "wetting" agents for hot weather and curing additives for cool temperatures. I'm nearly always using a wetting agent, but my friends in the great white north own nothing but accelerators.

Because these paints are thin and have such incredible surface tension (what makes them so shinny), every slight blemish, microscopic grain of dust, etc. will show up easily. Work super clean, "tacking" down just before painting, in a very clean area.

I use a home made paint booth, which is a fancy word for some clear plastic sheeting, tacked to 1x2's that I use to surround an area. One of these "walls" has a couple of A/C filters in it (just like the kind you use in your house). This is the only air source once I "close" up the booth for painting, so it's filtered. Another wall has a 30" box fan that I usually run on low or medium when painting, which draws air into the booth (through the filter) and then blows it out gently. I clean the area inside the enclosure as well as possible, wet down the floor, clean any equipment I bring into the booth and of course the project is clean too.

Work quickly with these LPU's (either type) and it's best if you employ a helper, who rolls while you quickly follow tipping off. You have to be able to do a 2 sq. ft. area (roll and tip) in less then 30 seconds to maintain a wet edge in 80 something degree weather. I'm a pretty experienced painter so I was able to do it solo, but I could see on a real hot day (90's) where I'd have trouble keeping a wet edge going.

Don't get greedy, work only an area large enough that you can manage the wet edge, because if you loose it, you're screwed.

As you're working, you'll notice that the paint is starting to "drag". It is and you need to add solvent as you go. It's literally curing in the can after you add the activator so adding an ounce or so of solvent every so often is necessary. This may be why some have done well on one side of the boat, just to have the other side come out like you painted over 40 grit. In the 80 degree weather we've had lately, I've added about an ounce of solvent (water in this case) every ten minutes. In 90 degree weather this may be every 5 minutes.

I found it was a "feel" thing to guess if the paint was trying to drag. I didn't want to wait for the paint to drag, as then it's to late and you're running a big risk of loosing the wet edge. I was able to feel the paint getting "heavier" as I tipped off and added thinner before it started to drag.

[Boatmik]

Howdy Paul this is really interesting to me. I am in Adelaide where the humidity is usually VERY low there have been some probs with users getting a good result.

The processes you mention about are all familiar


Working out what area you can do in one hit and not exceeding it.
Applying with a roller for even-ness then tipping off lightly with a brush - using an extra person if necessary.
Using the right additives to keep the paint flowing out of the brush and adding them if the brush starts to feel "grabby or sticky.


Can I ask some additional questions.

When the tipping off is done do you tip off vertically (to reduce the risk of "curtaining" - sections of paint slumping down because of gravity) or horizontally?

How smooth does the finish end up?

How easy is it to sand compared to normal two pot polyurethane (LPU) or turps based paints?

MIK

[PAR]

I tip vertically first, then horizontally. I find if horizontal marks remain, they are less objectionable then vertical.

If the paint goes down thin enough (well rolled out) then I haven't had much difficulty with sagging on vertical surfaces.

It's sands just like regular LPU and seems just as hard. The shine is comparable to LPU too as is the smoothness after a good roll and tip job. It lays down nicely, if you've thinned correctly for the current conditions.

I suspect your issues are surrounding the dryness of your area. Increase the humidity in the shop, use more solvent and or a wetting agent.

When you do get it "right" it feels right at the brush and the results show it. In dry conditions it can go all wrong pretty easily.

Our winters here are very dry and I haven't used it in the winter yet, but I'd imagine I'll have similar problems you've experienced then.

A couple of pots with boiling water around the work area may be all you need, though I might employ a store bought humidifier or two to make life easier then watching a boiling pot of water.