"Pine Timbers", a Godsend or a Devil's creation?

[robutacion]

Hi everyone,

Lets talk Pine Wood and Turning.

The issue is not a new one, and have probably changed its face a few times, but anywhere in the World where Pine species are available (readily or not), is this timber species, a positive thing in your life, or a negative one?
Is this timber a valuable source to you or not?.
Do you use this timber, and how?
Is this timber species available to you?
What percentage of pine do you use on your general wood consumption?
How many Pine species do you know or worked with, and could you give us a small description of its different characteristics, good and bad?
What do you like about Pine timbers, and what do you dislike about them?

For those that don't know it yet, my position is a favourable one, in regards to anything to do with Pine Timber Species. I was born among pine forests, very near the oldest, planted pine forest by "Royals", 500 years ago. I started making toys out of pine bark as young as 7, at 10 I was learning how to bleed the trees for resin extraction, at 13 I was already marking different trees for different uses (house const. furniture, etc.) while standing up. Later, I would comeback and following the marks (signs) I've made I would cut the trees and take them into the mills for processing. At 15, was no machine in a commercial mill, that I wouldn't know how to operate, service and repair. I've made houses, built furniture, erected small bridges and lots more, out of Pine timbers. I have used many other timber species, from all origins throughout the years, for all sorts and size jobs but, is Pine a special timber to me? I think you know the answer.

So, you now know where I stand on this issue so, what is your oppinion, and why?

Please keep it CLEAN!

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[ptygmit]

I love pine. Alot of people knock it, but it certainly has its place in the world. It's cheap, light for strength, and easy to work. What more could you want for many projects? Sure it doesn't take a finish like red gum or jarrah, but you don't need two people to move a pine coffee table either :)

Its not my favorite timber for furniture making, but for anything which needs to be quick, moveable and cheap, its great. Sitting where i am now, i can see a pine bookshelf, and two pine desks i have made. Total cost for 3 pieces of furniture? About $140 including the shellac...

Species i have used? Mainly radiata (i live in the Green Triangle of SA), but some recycled baltic too.

Edit: Sorry forgot to mention turning!! I generally dont fine it turns that well... maybe with the exception of Norfolk Is pine, althought i have made a few small shallow bowls for my guitar picks, from radiata.... You need REALLY sharp tools to avoid lots of sanding...

[weisyboy]

this (i think) was started because i made a refrance to pine being the devils wood (not timber).

as a fencer/stable/shed builder i use a lot of treated and non treated pine in day to day life.

the regular mpg 10/12 framing stuff it is a wonderfull timber for building stables and sheds where it is out of the ground and weather. so long as you are not planing on having the building last forever. you need to use a lot more of it to mainiain strength and even then its not realy good. building a 2 story shed etc the amount of timber required to make it strong enough to maintain the weight of stacks of hay and machinery is rediculous. it is verry easy to cut and nail and dosenot require pre drilling and you dont keep bending nails. it is also verry cheep.
however under no circumstance would i build my house out of the ????.

the treated stuff is great for fencing the posts are now garenteed for 40 years in the ground and the rails are also garenteed they are pretty weak you need posts at 2.4m instead of 3-4m. they are very light and easy to handle you can get a lot on a ute and can be handled by one person only.
however it is mutch dearer than hardwood up to twice the price.

pine when used in the workshop is nothing but trouble and not worth the trouble it has poor grain and pattern, verry light and bland in color and unless stained is not verry apealing. it is splintery and hairy hard to get a good finish off the tool it needs a lot of sanding and sealing to make it look good, it is hard to get a smothe finish with a thicknesser. the dust can be iratating and gets in everything.

dont get me wrong pine is great stuff it just hase no place in the workshop. there is offcorse exceptions to the rule a pine crutch or root section can be beautifull and i have nothing against cypres (not a true pine) and origan (also not a pine) is great for boat building.

i hope this explains my pint of view and the reasons for my opinion. I have come to this conclution from experiance and a going to stick buy it.:2tsup:

[Harry72]

I dont have any problem with pine, yeah I call radiata... crapiarta but thats just in fun, I only work with it in my commissioned furniture making.(do a search with my name in the pictures section, you'll see "some" of my work)
Good quality furniture can be made from "crapiarta" pine no worry's, yes I wouldnt use it for "fine furniture"... but I dont make fine stuff I make everyday furniture.

Cheap... BS I have to disagree, go buy some clears grade yer gunna get a real shock!

Ptygmit is right, its very easy to work with, its very easy on your machines(except drum sanders), it takes oil stains and film finishes very well. It also has some of the most beautifully featured grain... to me many hardwoods look plain and boring, its only the colour that makes them look nice.

The only things I find bad with it is
1. Peoples perception, pine = cheap, the wood cost is a very small part compared to labour.
2. Needs heavier/thicker sections for strength compared to hardwoods.
3. It is easily damaged due to its softness.
4. Many put it down because they dont know how to put on a stain without blotchiness!

[funkychicken]

Great for making shelves for the workshop or jam chucks fer turning.

Huon pine is nice. Hoop pine is good for models and learning to plane and stuff. Both are good for carving.

Radiata is no good for turning/anything!


Huon Pine would be the only pine I'd use for furniture, Knotty pine furniture looks like rubbish



Funky C

[JDarvall]

I like the pine you find in old furniture. Straight grained stuff. Aged goldern colour.

Can't stand the look of knotted pine in furniture etc.

[R.B.]

I have salvaged some old pine from 100yo+ benches and it can be a beautiful timber.. yellows reds creamy whites, stable as all get out too.. I left a plank in full sun for a week and not a cup or twist..lost about 30mm from each end and that was it.
Works well.. once you are past any grit on the surface it planes like butter, great for shuffling about with hand tools

I have never seen any pine at a timber yard that I would even consider taking home.

I was interested to see a bunch of patterns from a local foundry being tossed recently and grabbed a few of the smaller odd shapes to really just pull them apart to have a gander at the pattern makers handy work. Amazing work to say the least but what had me stunned was the quality of these huge chunks of pine. These buggers obviously know something the rest of us don't.

[China]

funkychicken, you can turn Pinus Radiata it takes practice and very sharp chisels ( as they always should be)

[artme]

What a wonderful range of timbers are covered by the generic term Pine.
Giant Redwoods, Giant Sequoias, Douglas Fir ( Oregon),Kauri Pine, Hoop Pine, Bunya Pine,Huon Pine, King Billy Pine. Celery Top Pine, Cypress Pine, The South American Aruacarias including the Monkey Puzzle Tree and the Parana Pine, Baltic Pine, Hemlock, the Cedar of Lebanon,.
All of these have their different characteristics and uses.
I would not condemn en mass as that is brutal and uncalled for. No. We need to think about what use we are putting any timber to before we decide on our opinion.:):):)

[funkychicken]

funkychicken, you can turn Pinus Radiata it takes practice and very sharp chisels ( as they always should be)


Doesn't mean I like it:p

[robutacion]

What a wonderful range of timbers are covered by the generic term Pine.
Giant Redwoods, Giant Sequoias, Douglas Fi ( Oregon),Kauri Pine, Hoop Pine, Bunya Pine,Huon Pine, King Billy Pine. Celery Top Pine, Cypress Pine, The South American Aruacarias including the Monkey Puzzle Tree and the Parana Pine, Baltic Pine, Hemlock, the Cedar of Lebanon,.
All of these have their different characteristics and uses.
I would not condemn en mass as that is brutal and uncalled for. No. We need to think about what use we are putting any timber to before we decide on our opinion.:):):)

Yeah, I reckon you right, the Pine family is just too large, so I will put together something a little easier to follow, in the mean time the link bellow will give to everyone some extraordinary information about Pines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine

What is really pi__ing me off this moment, is that I have been here for over 2 and a half bloody hours typing like a mad man to compose this post with the information I wanted on it. Happy to have it all done I needed only to add a few interesting pictures, but for some reason didn't download any pics, and in the process of fixing the problem, I end-up whipping the whole thing, so I will give it another go tomorrow (sorry, today sometime), because I'm getting smooking coming from my ears because of it so, I will close the shop for today, and I'm going to hit the fart-sack!

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[Sarge]

I love pine in on the lathe, I pick it up off building sites and use it for all my practicing :)))

[bobsreturn2003]

i like kauri and huon pine for turning ,but can look a little plain , the rest is 2nd grade building material in my opinion ,havent found much use for it . cheers bob

[artme]

Bob of bobsreturn - tried Cypress? Wester Red Cedar? even carefully selected plantation grown Oregon?
I think you will be surprised.:U:U

[OGYT]

We have what is called White Pine, Sugar Pine, Douglas Fir, and Yellow Pine, here in our lumber stores (NW Texas). It's all soft, except for parts of the Yellow Pine. Sugar Pine is almost as soft as Balsa wood, and will float away on a breeze, if you're not careful where you put it down. Clear white pine is #1 grade here, very expensive, and it's wonderful for anything that you want to make light weight, and especially for craft items. Just a little extra thought in preparation and it'll take stain very well. #2 grade and #3 Grade white pine is used for most wall studs in normal wall construction in homes. Yellow Pine will split when you hit it with a 16penny nail, will warp and twist, even when nailed to a wall, and is too sorry to use for anything except to keep warm outside in the winter. I'm ducking... but truthful.
Douglas Fir is splintery as heck, but is strong enough and pliable enough to build railroad boxcars out of. The doors of my shed are built from 2" thick tongue & grooved boxcar flooring of Douglas Fir. They expand and contract more than any other wood I've ever worked with, too. (It'd take much man with big hammer to break through my shed doors.)
I've turned very little pine, but I can understand it needing sharp tools, light cuts, and fast speed to make less sanding need. I like white pine, and Douglas Fir, but I absolutely abhor yellow pine.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :D

[robutacion]

Hi everyone,

I'm still thinking to do that big post, late tonight (maybe), but I decided to entice the subject with some interesting words. What are the Pine species type we all see at the hardware stores and timber yards? and about those we have growing in the main streets (some main roads), in the middle of paddocks, some here, some there? and what type Pine is the Australian Pine? is it the one growing in small patches in some areas, or is the one growing by huge controlled plantations over the South part of SA and Victoria, etc,.?

What are the Australia Pines? - White Cypress? - YES Pine Cypress? - NO
Is there any Australia Pine, called Black Cypress? - YES
Is there a difference between Cypress pine and Cyprus Pine - YES

There is a great deal of confusion about these issues and to what people commonly call Pine. This is a good opportunity to correct those confusions and understand exactly what timber you know and call Pine actually is. With this said, is also an ideal time to find out how many other types of Pine look like, and how good they are for turning. Indeed some people know and worked with some timber they call something else, but they are really part of the Pine family.
I will be providing links to web sites that explain in detail all these issues,and I will most certainly recommend everyone to spend a little time reading it. It will surprise you how it will help you to recognise and differentiate the various types of Pines available to us. This next link, is a perfect example of what I just said!
http://www.intad.asn.au/materials/wd_cypss.asp

Cheers
RBTCO

What type of pine is this?

[ptygmit]

Pretty hard to tell the type of pine from the pictures, the ones of the forests look like radiata, but that bowls doesn't. The growth rings look to regular and tight.

[robyn2839]

Great for making shelves for the workshop or jam chucks fer turning.

Huon pine is nice. Hoop pine is good for models and learning to plane and stuff. Both are good for carving.

Radiata is no good for turning/anything!


Huon Pine would be the only pine I'd use for furniture, Knotty pine furniture looks like rubbish



Funky C
definitely no good for turning/anything, ? made this today from that crap cypress,.shame really.......................... bob.............................

[robyn2839]

could that tree be bunya, .......bob

[Calm]

definitely no good for turning/anything, ? made this today from that crap cypress,.shame really.......................... bob.............................

Yea have to agree Bob - looks bloody terrible doesnt it!!:D:D:rolleyes:

[powderpost]

As a kid I remember our dining room table and the chairs were made from pine, probably hoop or kauri, and it survived two generations. I remember also the kitchen bench top was a single board with a porcelain sink bowl fixed under a hole. It was about fifteen years old and still in good condition before being replaced by a new stainless steel sink.
As an apprentice, I remember using pine, again probably hoop or kauri, for internal jamb linings, skirting boards and architraves. It cut and planed by hand well. Use of knotty pine of any variety was absolutely verbotten. Morticing for locks and keepers was difficult as it wouldn't cut cleanly with a sharp chisel. We used a lot for rafters and roof battens, easy to cut and nailed well. The rafters lasted well but the battens rotted around the roofing nails. Also used a lot for internal V.J. sheeting.
Lately I have used a lot of radiata for furniture for the family and find it ok to use. The pines I have used have been good to cut and plane by machine and good to sand in my drum sander.
There is a lot of caribea pine growing on farms around here, at the suggestion to the farmers by DPI. That stuff is full of resins and is difficult to machine and is very difficult to sand.
Admittedly, pine doesn't have the same aura as maple, silky oak or any other of our cabinet timbers, but if the snob factor can be bypassed and it is worked with a will, pine can be an attractive material to work with. But like any other material, understanding and careful selection must be made for the job in hand.
Jim

[artme]

:2tsup:Bewdiful Robyn!!:2tsup::2tsup:

[robutacion]

Hi guys,

robyn2839 "definitely no good for turning/anything, ? made this today from that crap cypress,.shame really.......................... bob............................."
My point precisely...
There is a nice piece from a decent Pine specimen. What is the origin of the tree that produced that piece, do you know?

It is a fact of life that some people just don't like the common species of pine (radiata & Cyprus). For most of them, they are the only pine species they know or recognise. Many others are for ever traumatised by the fact that their Pine houses (sheds, etc.) where either partially or fully eaten away. One would understand their reaction and such disapprovement of this wood species to be used on/for anything at all.

There are many other reasons why people dislike Pine, and their opinion should be respected, as per like anything else, I don't have a problem with it, nor I have a problem to admit Pine has been always been my preferred wood/timber/forest, but I also believe, powderpost is quite right when he say, "Admittedly, pine doesn't have the same aura as maple, silky oak or any other of our cabinet timbers, but if the snob factor can be bypassed and it is worked with a will, pine can be an attractive material to work with."

My connection with this timber species since I was a little boy, does have a lot to do with my feelings and thoughts about Pine as a natural timber product, as also the long years making a living out of working with the product, in all its possible uses, including paper and paint solvents. All these years passed, and dozens of other tree species used in a variety of jobs and situations, there is one thing about most Pine species, that I can't ever have enough, and that is the smell of fresh pine resin. Is only one timber species that I every so often, mount in the lathe (green most of times, freshly cut log), and turn until is no more left, just for the smell/aroma!:roll:.

Anyway, we agree to disagree that some people just don't like Pine, for whatever their reasons, DITTO!
For the others with at least, a reasonable acceptance of pine species as a raw material for their turnings, I/we would appreciate some more examples of pine creations, and possible finishing types.
More than 50% of my turnings are made of Cyprus Pine, finished with a variety of possibilities, mostly with clear natural timber oils, some with light satin stains, others with heavy gloss stain, etc., etc. A large number of these pieces are displayed on my web site, under "All finished pieces", if you wish to have a look!

By-the-way, the pine plantation (source of most of my pine) in my previous post, is 50 acres, 25 years old, Cyprus Pine species. The bowl/platter on the pic in the same post is an European Pine that I'm not absolutely sure of its origin. The board used was part of a door frame painted white,removed from a house in ruins. According to the old house owner, the pine was imported from Europe (somewhere?) by his father, in the 1900's. The piece given to me was a one side door frame 83" long X 6" wide X 1.1/4" thick. The conditions were to joint 2 cuts ( 2 x width)and turn a display plate for him. I manage to salvage 4 cuts, so I've made a similar size piece but different shape for myself. I'm still searching on the Pine origin due to the fact that can be 1 out of 4 possible names. I have so far traced the origin as per Italy, now I need to see what was available in the 1900's, before I put a name to it.

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[HansGScholte]

Finished this teabox yesterday, color will improve in time.
Pinus sylvestris with purpleheart ring. Sharp tools is all you need, no sandpaper.
http://www.houtdraaienindehaarlemmermeer.nl/linkedimages/pine_1.jpg
Hans

[joe greiner]

Just tuppence or so:

Norfolk Island Pine isn't a true pine, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Araucaria_heterophylla But quite popular in Oosa for turning. The knots are usually located in groups, which enhances the design of the piece. Google [woodturning "Norfolk Island Pine"] for some handsome examples.

Most of the pine upover has very straight trunks, and lends itself well to production of framing timber. However, a lot of the plantation-grown trees have been bred for rapid growth, and thus have widely-spaced growth rings. Not so great for turning, except for practise, especially exercises with the skew chisel.

Most of the pine around here has bark that looks like shingles. In spite of variable species names in different countries, that usually clinches the identification for me.

Joe

[pitbull]

I love pine in on the lathe, I pick it up off building sites and use it for all my practicing :)))

Same here, i don't have an easy way of picking up other types of wood without paying :oo: plus i'm a miser :D

[bobsreturn2003]

tried western red cedar .cost a fortune for a large blank hard to turn didnt look much finished . cypress , magic have some at the moment looks great . generally think of pine as building material. there is so much better stuff growing locally , havent tried oregan is it a pine ? north american not common , built some of my house with it , looks ok sand blasted . cheers bob

[artme]

A wonderful piece of work Hans!:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:
We could debate the merits of what is and isn't "true Pine" ad infinitum. Doesn't serve a lot of purpose. I think most of us agree that cone bearing trees - Conifers - are generically called Pines.

[robutacion]

A wonderful piece of work Hans!:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:
We could debate the merits of what is and isn't "true Pine" ad infinitum. Doesn't serve a lot of purpose. I think most of us agree that cone bearing trees - Conifers - are generically called Pines.

Actually artme, know a few types of trees that produce a cone type, and they are not even a far relative to pine. You mentioning the pine cones, did reminded me of a large pine species (similar to those growing on the side of some roads (towns,etc.), but indeed they are between the Cypress and Radiata Pine. I have not seen one of theses for some years, even tough, I stopped a few times on the side of the road to check it out. You can't really tell them apart from a distance, but you will get your answer by looking under one of these trees. The cones produced by this Pine species, are quite large, but the big difference is in the seed they produce. This seed is a product very well sourced natural product and expensive to buy. It can be eaten raw but preferentially roasted, the trouble is in getting the seeds from the cone and crack them open. The first step of this process is normally facilitated by nature, making the "ready" seeds to drop from the cones, into the ground. Obviously, one would have only any success, if those trees were in his/her property and away from the people view, or in remote places where no one else knows about it. Actually, I should make an important correction, the first trouble you have to get around when collecting these seeds is, how to get those fat cones full of seeds from the tree above, 20, 30 feet up?:?.
Yeah, I remember some scary climbs, legs and arms cut like if I have been in a cat fight, but I soon learnt an old trick, to get those "ready" seeds to fall into the ground like heavy shower of hailstones. If anyone knows the trick, I would like to know, please.
Nothing better to put a few pics for people to be able to identify and or recognise some Pine species. The main subject on this particular post, did became the conifers species and then my discussion on a particular Pine species that exist in Australia and produce an excellent timber and some very tasty "nuts". This is how these species devolepde, started as Conifers, then Pinales, then Pinaceae, then Stone or Umbrella Pine. How does these trees and cones look like, and about the bark etc.,?. Remember they look very similar to some growing around towns, roads, etc., but look carefully on the ground, do those cones have large seeds, can you see any?
Well a few pics should help!
Pic -1 Pinaceae (mother of stone and umbrella pine species, the nuts producers). Pic -2 Stone Pine, pic - 5 Umbrella Pine.

BTW, the way I see it is, the only "true pine", is the one I can get my hands on...!:D

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[artme]

Well Rob all I can say is Hmmmmm.............., for the moment.:):):p

[powderpost]

A cabinet built for our own bathroom, from the much maligned "crapiata" or radiata pine, sourced from the local timber yard. Been in service for three years now and still holding up well.
Jim

[Harry72]

Yep Crapiarta is fine enough if used properly, this ones holding up well too :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v725/ST170ish/IMG_0086.jpg

[RufflyRustic]

... and then there's the crapiata that raises itself above the rest - so much so that I've found just enough birdseye pine in my local bunnies to make a pine shelf, picture frame, cabinet and trunk. The cabinet is still a WIP and the trunk is next, but WOW - the birdseye was too magnificent to pass up :U

cheers
Wendy

[robutacion]

Hi everyone,

The local and close to me, pine plantation that I have mention so many times in here, is having a good hair-cut, the second one in 20 years. This has been the place were some of my best pieces of pine, have come from, including the "knotty pine".

The guys have started 5 days ago, and according to them, they will be there there until after Christmas. The plantation is about 45 acres, of near undisturbed vegetation and almost impenetrable in some areas (some pics shown previously).
The amount of damage done just to get the machinery around (2 x harvesters, 1 x loader) is unbelievable but what they are leaving behind, is beyond my wildest comprehension. Anything over 14" or 15" diameter, is cut and left behind to rot. I've seen trees where only the top half was used, with the bottom half cut in logs about 1 meter long and dumped. Some of those trees are 2' in diameter of clean plantation Radiata pine, those are going to be cut into pieces until the trunk reaches about 14", then one length of 4 meters is made (main cut, the size they are looking after for the mill), then the next 4 meters is going to be pilled-up for "pulp" production. So, why are the biggest timbers left as waste, and not used at all? Is the timber Industry mad? no wonder why we pay so much for milled timbers. If anyone is thinking, why don't I ask them, don't worry, I will on Monday or Tuesday, as I just find out the name of the person that marked the trees to come down on this lot. See, the land belongs to a private land owner, he was the one to plant these trees, with the help of his kids when they were younger but, the trees were sold to SA Forestry a few year ago, just before the first unsuccessful trim. This person (that marked the trees), is one of the big "head-honkers" from the SA Forestries so, see what he's go to say...!:no:

I don't own the timber, and that is beyond the point, I just can not accept such wastage of natural resources, mainly timbers. Is even possible that they offer me all the timbers left behind, just to shut me up, which I don't want, need or can recover, my storage paddock is only 800 meters away, but I don't have the equipment to access and reach these timbers after they finish, (will be difficult and dangerous, just to walk over the stuff!) but I got to do something...!:doh::((
I will add some pics of the wastage I'm talking about, for now I will post some pics of one of the harvesters, in action!

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[Ed Reiss]

What type of pine is this?

RBTCO...that looks very much like the straight grained Douglas Fir we have here in the states...remember my recent pic of the frisbee?

Pine furniture really takes a bad rap in the popularity poll, but I've seen absolutely drop-dead gorgeous vintage pieces produced in the UK with nothing more than a really buffed out wax finish.

I also agree with OGYT's assesment of southern pines. But they are good for something...telephone poles!:roll:

[weisyboy]

scrappy looking plantation. are they cypress?

[Frank&Earnest]

Did we not work out before that they were radiata, albeit terribly neglected?

George, you have the expertise to assess the quality and value of what is left on the ground, if you can find buyers for it (Harry?) it might become viable for you to hire a Lucas and mill the stuff, if they let you have it to clear the place.

[robutacion]

Hi everyone,

The local and close to me, pine plantation that I have mention so many times in here, is having a good hair-cut, the second one in 20 years. This has been the place were some of my best pieces of pine, have come from, including the "knotty pine".

The guys have started 5 days ago, and according to them, they will be there there until after Christmas. The plantation is about 45 acres, of near undisturbed vegetation and almost impenetrable in some areas (some pics shown previously).
The amount of damage done just to get the machinery around (2 x harvesters, 1 x loader) is unbelievable but what they are leaving behind, is beyond my wildest comprehension. Anything over 14" or 15" diameter, is cut and left behind to rot. I've seen trees where only the top half was used, with the bottom half cut in logs about 1 meter long and dumped. Some of those trees are 2' in diameter of clean plantation Radiata pine, those are going to be cut into pieces until the trunk reaches about 14", then one length of 4 meters is made (main cut, the size they are looking after for the mill), then the next 4 meters is going to be pilled-up for "pulp" production. So, why are the biggest timbers left as waste, and not used at all? Is the timber Industry mad? no wonder why we pay so much for milled timbers. If anyone is thinking, why don't I ask them, don't worry, I will on Monday or Tuesday, as I just find out the name of the person that marked the trees to come down on this lot. See, the land belongs to a private land owner, he was the one to plant these trees, with the help of his kids when they were younger but, the trees were sold to SA Forestry a few year ago, just before the first unsuccessful trim. This person (that marked the trees), is one of the big "head-honkers" from the SA Forestries so, see what he's go to say...!:no:

I don't own the timber, and that is beyond the point, I just can not accept such wastage of natural resources, mainly timbers. Is even possible that they offer me all the timbers left behind, just to shut me up, which I don't want, need or can recover, my storage paddock is only 800 meters away, but I don't have the equipment to access and reach these timbers after they finish, (will be difficult and dangerous, just to walk over the stuff!) but I got to do something...!:doh::((
I will add some pics of the wastage I'm talking about, for now I will post some pics of one of the harvesters, in action!

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

Weisyboy, you missed it which is OK, I do that all the time...!:D

Frank&Earnest, yes, and you are absolutely right, worse than neglected. Indeed, I started to clean it, 3 years ago, when I ask the land owner if I could get the dead/bad trees, and in exchange I would clean the place up. I only had done a small area at the front (entrance gate) about 2 acres, when I find out that he didn't own the timber but only the land, as I explain on the post above. Since then, every attempt I've made to get permission to continue on, was answered by "we will contact you when we made the decision but, by-the-way, don't touch any of it, otherwise we will persecute you!":((, nice huh?

I have an older thread where pics of the plantation conditions and the area I was cleaning. Pics of before and after, are obvious and the subject of neglect was discussed.

There is also another reason, appart from the fact that I've grown up among pine plantations, why this issue has been a concern of mine. On the other side of this plantations fence (boundary), is another 2 smaller pine plantations (pic attached), there are a bit younger at about 12 years old or so, and they belong to the vegetable farm, operating in the area for a few years now. In my 3 years of living in this place, this farm has seen 4 different owners, all Chinese and none English spoken. Just to work out who really owns the place, has been a nightmare, and none of them could confirm who actually planted and owned the plantation, they didn't seem to care about the trees, as they were all vegetable farmers from China.
The problem with the plantation inside the farm was that, it has never been touched since has been planted, with the same neglect look and dead/dry stuff on it, making if another huge fire hazard. Basically, I've been trying to find out who to ask for the much needed trimming/cleaning of it before it would be too late like the place next door. This week, I've decide to get to the bottom of this issue at the farm and I have finely had in my hands documentation to prove ownership of all the trees (plantation) by the person that owns the farm. This document, solves my concerns that the plantation (trees only) could belong to SA Forestries, so and before SA gets in and tries to buy them, I will be in the middle as I have been appointed from the very beginning (after my own recommendation) as the natural guardian of those trees and anything that had to do with them so that I could get things done right, to these trees. From keeping the grasses down all around (fire brakes), make some tracks inside it, removing felled trees but all to a minimum (not a proper cleaning/trimming) as I was concern that id SA Forestry did own the timber, I would get into trouble with them again:no::~. Now that I know they have no right on that side of the fence, I will do things my way, there is I will have other people doing it with me, I'm no longer physically capable to do all by myself! those days are truly indisputably gone...!:((

Anyway, the possibility of having SA Forestries offering me to clean an keep the left overs, apart from the fact that I don't really wont it, only because the timbers are too big to remove manually, and I don't have the machinery to work over that stuff without braking the machine and get all tyres cut to threads in the first 15 minutes, that possibility will be if not already out of question. They didn't like me much the first time around, and I'm certain that after I confront them with the wastage of this current lot, in the next few days, my popularity with them will be less than desirable, unless they come to some an acceptable offer, which I much doubt...!:C
I may have the expertise and experience with these matters, but in this case, I'm not certain of its direction/conclusions. We will see...!

I will keep everyone interested, up to date.

Cheers
RBTCO

[Paul39]

In the US south you will find old houses with "heart of pine" floors. This is the quarter sawn center of southern yellow pine cut down before 1900. There are no knots, it is as hard as red oak and has a wonderful orange red color.

There are businesses around that salvage the big post and beam framing timbers from 1800s mills and make flooring and other millwork from them.

Paul

See below from: longleafyellowheartpine.com

We manufacture superb Long Leaf Yellow Heart Pine Flooring. We inspect each Heart Pine board when it comes off the saw .The Heart Pine board is then placed in the proper grade pile. From there, the Heart Pine board goes to the cross cut station where it is inspected again and any checks, loose cracks or loose knots are cut out & all ends are cut square . The Heart Pine board then goes to the molding machine for the tongue & groove . The Heart Pine flooring then goes to inventory . When an order is taken the Heart Pine is inspected again. This ensures that your order is 100% usable Heart Pine flooring.
History of Heart Pine- "The Wood that Built America"
Where antique heart pine comes from
Before the American Revolution, longleaf pine...the source of heart pine... doninated the landscape in the south. Once the largest continuous forest on the North American continent, the longleaf ecosystem ran along the costal plains from Virginia's southern tip to eastern Texas. Where there was once approximatly 90 million acres, less than 10,000 acres of pine remain today. Put in another way, what was once 41 percent of the entire land down south,now covers less than 2 percent of its original range. The hardwood trees grow for centuries, producing only an inch of growth in diameter every 30 years.
Why Heart pine is the 'wood that built America'
As the Untied States was formed and began to prosper, settlers quickly saw immense value in the towering but slender hardwood trees. Because of its strength heart pine was declared the "King's Wood" for shipbuilding when America was young. Settlers moved southward, and steadily logged and milled heart pine for cabins in the 1700s and 1800s, and later for the construction of fine Victorian palaces. Heart pine framed 4 out 5 houses in the Carolinas. It floored Thomas Jefferson's Monticello and Washinton's Mount Vernon, and was used to build the USS Constitution ("Old Ironsides").
Heart pine played a key role in the growth and devolpment of the United States as an economic power.As industrial America began to flex its muscles last century, heart pine was transported in tall ships made of heart pine up the east coast and to europe. The Herculean wood provided flooring, joists, and paneling for factories, as well as timber for bridges, warehouses, and trains, and wharves. Due to it's beauty, heart pine was utilized in Victorian hotels and palaces.
By 1850 the south had only constructed 2,000 miles of railorad, so the best way to transport longleaf logs to downstream sawmills was by by the use of rivers and canals. The common method was to cut trees with axes and drag logs with oxen or mule teams to the riverbank. In those days you couldn't go anywhere without running into naval stores industry that tapped the longleaf trees for their valuable resin. Longleaf resin was used in paint, shoe polish, soap, weatherproofing products, and medicines made the US the world leader in naval stores until the mid twentieth century. Even baseball playyers used rsin on their equipment, and ballerinas on their toe shoes to improve performance.
Remaining forests protected today
Today, origina growth heart pine is as rare as sunken treasure, with less than 10,000 acres of original growth Longleaf Pine forests remaining. Antique heartpine and heart cypress are revered for their rich history as much as their beauty and durability. Sadly, clear cutting of the vast southern forests in the late 1800s wiped out virtually the entire range of original growth heart pine and heart cypress trees. The only place to find the last vestiges of this old wood is reclaimation from old buildings or where it was left behind -- underwater in the southern rivers used by many timber operations in the 1800s to raft their logs to nearby sawmills.
Some of densest, heaviest logs felled by hand more than a century ago roll of the rafts during the float trip to the mills. Other logs sank into storage at the landings, then were abandoned and preserved under the water. They have tumbled there for years with the shifting currents and freshets of such waterways as the Santa Fe, Apalachicola, and Suswannee River in Northeast Florida, and the St. Mary,s, Satilla, Altamaha, and Flint rivers in Georgia.
Characteristics of Heart Pine (Longleaf Pine or Pinus palustris)


Red tones- light rose to deep burgundy in color.
Beauty: famous for a handsome variety of grain patterns
Durability: heartwood lasts for centuries, comparable in hardness to red oak
Rarity: once the dominant landscape of the coastal southeast, now covers less than 3% of it's original range

Long Leaf Yellow Heart Pine salvaged From the Buffalo Forge Demolition job in Buffalo New York .The Demolition was done by Cambria Contracting

Quarter Sawn Heart Pine in stock 2,3/4 & 4, 3/4
Tight grain & densehttp://longleafyellowheartpine.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/quarter_sawn_web_005.147143529_std.jpg

[Manuka Jock]

What type of pine is this?


This looks to me to be Oregon - Doug Fir


http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=66308&d=1201846265 (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=66308&d=1201846265)

[Woodwould]

In <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.woodworkforums.com/ /><st1:country-region w:st=the UK </st1:country-region>we had two distinct 'pine' timbers available. One was commercially known as 'Whitewood' or 'White Deal' (<ST1:pAbies Alba, <st1:country-region w:st="on">Norway</st1:country-region> Spruce) which was milk-white, light-weight and wooly. It was the equivalent to <st1:country-region w:st="on"><ST1:pAustralia</ST1:place</st1:country-region>'s Radiata Pine with the same stigma and was used for framing and pallets etc. It was very difficult to work, even with well sharpened tools because of its wooly nature.

The other pine was Scots Pine, or 'Red Deal' (Pinus Sylvestris, known here as Baltic Pine) which was an altogether different and more desirable timber. The better grades were as dense and tough as many hardwoods (have a look at an old Victorian pine floorboard), with tight, pronounced growth rings and it worked beautifully. Lesser grades were still superior to many other utility timbers and it was held in very high regard.

[Manuka Jock]

Hi everyone,
The local and close to me, pine plantation that I have mention so many times in here, is having a good hair-cut, the second one in 20 years. This has been the place were some of my best pieces of pine, have come from, including the "knotty pine".
Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=88813&d=1226755822 (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=88813&d=1226755822)

This plantation has never been pruned , is that the norm in Aussie ?

[Andy Mac]

Pine is a strange name, as it refers to so many different trees and timbers. The only common feature seems to be the colour, a blonde, but from pictures already shown here, the timber can be a wide range of colours too. Maybe we should just talk about Pinus, all 115 species, and leave all the others out of it! For a while it seemed the common link is they're all conifers, but now I'm not so sure. I think old growth timber is so different from younger and plantation timber we generally get now, its almost like using a completely seperate wood.
I think my dislike for Pinus generally comes from the alternating and distinct hard/soft bands from seasonal growth pattern, which can make working it tricky. I had some old slash pine (P.elliottii) milled from a huge tree in our backyard, and even a drop saw would react to the bands. It was quite a hard and heavy timber. When it comes to the many knots, it drives me berserk they're so cranky... Warping, collapsing, coming loose, chipping in the planer, reversing under a hand plane aaarggh!:(( Only one other type of timber I like less, and that's Aust. cypress! You can then add splitty, fragile and stinking to the list!:p
The trees that make up Araucariaceae (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Araucariaceae) are a different kettle altogether (see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auracaria) too). Conifers, and generally known as pines, there are within the category but so unlike the stuff we identify as crapiata that give pine such a bad name! Kauri, hoop, bunya, parana....they're amongst my favourite timbers, sweet to work, planing nicely, not splitting with nails, none of that alternating banding so OK to carve, and available in knot free lengths. Possibly a bit bland for some tastes, I really them as being understated. Kauri especially can get some lovely flecky figure; hoop sometimes gets a slight birds-eye pattern; and parana pine can get some colour through it, purples, reds and browns, but restrained. For anyone that hasn't worked with them, do yourself a favour!:2tsup: Pinus will pall, in comparison! Old growth stuff is often available through timber recyclers, and the colour is richer, more golden than blonde and of course available in longer lengths without knots.

Cheers

[Woodwould]

If you're talking conifers, don't forget to include Junipers, Larches and Yews, Yew being the King of all 'softwoods'.

[RETIRED]

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=88813&d=1226755822 (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=88813&d=1226755822)

This plantation has never been pruned , is that the norm in Aussie ?Yes Jock. We are a bit slower than the NZ'ers.

They now prune or cut the lower branches same as NZ. It has only been happening the last 15-20 years though.

The above applies only to Forestry or paper mill plantations though. There are a lot of privately owned plantations that are similar to RBTCOs neighbour.

[Manuka Jock]

Yes Jock. We are a bit slower than the NZ'ers.

They now prune or cut the lower branches same as NZ. It has only been happening the last 15-20 years though.

The above applies only to Forestry or paper mill plantations though. There are a lot of privately owned plantations that are similar to RBTCOs neighbour.

Ah , I see . Well that may explain the low opinion of pinus radiata that some have .

Poor quality trees produce low quality timber .

I turned this last year . It is from a 12 x 2 , that I milled from a radiata pine , that grew on my brothers trotting farm .
It cut as smooth as and as tidy as any wood I've ever used , better that most really, and needed only the merest touch up with sandpaper .

( I'd bought a new lathe just after dad died , and that plate is the first wood that I put on it . I kept thinking of how he would have been fascinated with the computerised speed
control , and the titan chuck ....:) )

Pick the tree , not the species .

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Ah , I see . Well that may explain the low opinion of pinus radiata that some have .

Poor quality trees produce low quality timber .

Exactly. And it's exacerbated when one of the more common retail outlets here works on the "if you can buy it cheaper anywhere else we'll beat the price" system. Obviously quality isn't a major concern when they source their stock...

[Little Festo]

I've turned some Hoop Pine, a large endgrain piece, about 500mm high, it worked ok, the knots looked good. Sharp tools are /were very important.

Also turned some Bunya Pine. I turned it when wet, turned thin and oiled heavily MANY times sanding between oilings, lots of work. It turned well, also carves quite well too. Will try to attach a few pics.

Almost forgot , while in the Northern Territory I turned some Northern Cypress Pine. It was quite oily and a pain to sand, clogged the paper quite badly but when perservered with was quite nice, Yello/gold.

I have found that the pieces I've worked on looked better oiled than lacquered, added a rich yellow to the colour wheras the lacquered pieces looked a lot "colder" so to speak.

Peter

[Frank&Earnest]

This looks to me to be Oregon - Doug Fir


http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=66308&d=1201846265 (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=66308&d=1201846265)

I stick to my assessment that this is not red enough and the growth rings are too wide for Douglas Fir, looks more Paul's yellow pine above. I have been told before that new plantation DF looks like that, maybe but I am not convinced. What I keep telling is that DF has a very persistent and very distinctive smell, anybody who has smelled it once can't mistake it anymore.

[Manuka Jock]

I stick to my assessment that this is not red enough and the growth rings are too wide for Douglas Fir, looks more Paul's yellow pine above. I have been told before that new plantation DF looks like that, maybe but I am not convinced. What I keep telling is that DF has a very persistent and very distinctive smell, anybody who has smelled it once can't mistake it anymore.

Oh , did you turn that dish ?
I was under the impression that it was Robutacion's work .
Well , if it didn't smell right when you made it ......

[robutacion]

Oh , did you turn that dish ?
I was under the impression that it was Robutacion's work .
Well , if it didn't smell right when you made it ......

No MJ, I did...!:D
Frank's use of this pic and his comment, has to do with a similar discussion some of us had when I first started this thread, some time ago. This same piece has has been commented on, and it appear to be some confusion of its origin. Out of many pieces I have shown here made out of pine from the local plantation, this one was used to demonstrate the versatility and qualities of some pine species, but was not made from the Radiata pine from the plantation, but was made out of some 100 years+ imported pine from Italy by Italians for the construction of their SA home. I manage to salvage some pieces of timber from the door frames, as the old home was "taken down" by this Italian family successors.
I agree with Frank, this is not DF (nor had any strange smell, appart from the pine(ish) smell!), even tough we never manage to find out exactly what It was.

I also agree with you, normally "Poor quality trees produce low quality timber" . This plantation in maybe an exception, and I believe mainly due to the excellent soil (soft sand) qualities and water availability (spring running under it). There has been 3 main types of timber I got so far out of that plantation, with the bigger size timbers now being available to me, even if in small quantity. From the most "crooked" formed small trees, to some of the best knotty pine I've worked with and perfectly clean timbers (no knots), from some of the medium trees I cut down, but nothing compared with the 2' I got on the ground already, of wide, clean, resin "dripping" free grain. This would be the timbers I would look for in my days as a carpenter cabinet maker (solid timber furniture construction). In fact, this is one of the reasons why I can not accept the wastage and the conditions plantation here are kept.
I am very familiar with pine plantations, where people see them as a valued resource, in many cases, they only resource, with years of careful trimming/cleaning and maintenance as if they were their back yard. Is a long wait for these trees to grow to production age, (and time to collect the well deserved rewards). These are the type of plantations that I was born and lived in, and made a carrier of 20+ years. Unfortunately, here in Australia most of the privately own pine plantations, are not cared for, as people has absolutely no "connection" with them, I wonder why they did plant them in the first place.
Well, actually I do know, most of them were subsidised by the government special programs then , as they though it would be a good idea! Money grabbers did not miss the opportunity, after that, who cares? They were told what to do, but they didn't because it would cost money, so selling the plantations rights to the big Forestry fellows, resulted in quick cash once again, and they still own the land...! On the other hand, big timber companies are more interested in "pulp" production then timber production, even tough they are still wasting 50% of what is available, even for paper production, so, I'm sorry, but I just cant get to terms with all this, irregardless...!

I only hope that I can manage to be around and be in charge of the other 2 small plantations, even tough a bit late already, I will show them how a pine plantation should look like, and how to get the most out of every cut. I will cut the trees myself and select all the cuts to produce the best yield and value out of each log, even if is the last thing I bloody do...!:((
Setting up a couple of Luca mills on site, a loader a couple of loggers, some decent workers and someone pullings the strings that knows what his doing, selling direct to furniture makers, posts makers, and other big guys, will get the timber clean up in no time, and I will be damn if I can't triple the yield and value of the trees, in the end!:roll:

Sorry folks, I just get so mad with all this...! it hit me and hurts me deep down in my gut. For those that haven't notice yet, after all this time, I'm a Pine man at heart!

All for now...
Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[Manuka Jock]

No MJ, I did...!:D
Frank's use of this pic and his comment, has to do with a similar discussion some of us had when I first started this thread, some time ago. This same piece has has been commented on, and it appear to be some confusion of its origin. Out of many pieces I have shown here made out of pine from the local plantation, this one was used to demonstrate the versatility and qualities of some pine species, but was not made from the Radiata pine from the plantation, but was made out of some 100 years+ imported pine from Italy by Italians for the construction of their SA home. I manage to salvage some pieces of timber from the door frames, as the old home was "taken down" by this Italian family successors.
I agree with Frank, this is not DF (nor had any strange smell, appart from the pine(ish) smell!), even tough we never manage to find out exactly what It was.

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

RBTCO,

I am fully aware where the photo came from , I cut and pasted it from your post . :rolleyes:
And I know who turned the dish ........
Thats why I said "I was under the impression that it was Robutacion's work "


straight over ya head eh :D

[Frank&Earnest]

Straight over my head also... looks like another episode of misunderstanding! :D

[Frank&Earnest]

George, It had escaped me that you said that it was from an Italian door frame. In this case I am pretty sure that it is larch (Larix decidua).

[robutacion]

RBTCO,

I am fully aware where the photo came from , I cut and pasted it from your post . :rolleyes:
And I know who turned the dish ........
Thats why I said "I was under the impression that it was Robutacion's work "


straight over ya head eh :D

Not a chance...! just checking...!:wink::U sure...!

Cheers
RBTCO

[robutacion]

George, It had escaped me that you said that it was from an Italian door frame. In this case I am pretty sure that it is larch (Larix decidua).

Sorry Frank, I just couldn't remenber where I had writen that information, so I looked everywhere, only to realise that what I was looking for was just here, in this same thread;

Hi guys,

robyn2839 "definitely no good for turning/anything, ? made this today from that crap cypress,.shame really.......................... bob............................."
My point precisely...
There is a nice piece from a decent Pine specimen. What is the origin of the tree that produced that piece, do you know?

It is a fact of life that some people just don't like the common species of pine (radiata & Cyprus). For most of them, they are the only pine species they know or recognise. Many others are for ever traumatised by the fact that their Pine houses (sheds, etc.) where either partially or fully eaten away. One would understand their reaction and such disapprovement of this wood species to be used on/for anything at all.

There are many other reasons why people dislike Pine, and their opinion should be respected, as per like anything else, I don't have a problem with it, nor I have a problem to admit Pine has been always been my preferred wood/timber/forest, but I also believe, powderpost is quite right when he say, "Admittedly, pine doesn't have the same aura as maple, silky oak or any other of our cabinet timbers, but if the snob factor can be bypassed and it is worked with a will, pine can be an attractive material to work with."

My connection with this timber species since I was a little boy, does have a lot to do with my feelings and thoughts about Pine as a natural timber product, as also the long years making a living out of working with the product, in all its possible uses, including paper and paint solvents. All these years passed, and dozens of other tree species used in a variety of jobs and situations, there is one thing about most Pine species, that I can't ever have enough, and that is the smell of fresh pine resin. Is only one timber species that I every so often, mount in the lathe (green most of times, freshly cut log), and turn until is no more left, just for the smell/aroma!:roll:.

Anyway, we agree to disagree that some people just don't like Pine, for whatever their reasons, DITTO!
For the others with at least, a reasonable acceptance of pine species as a raw material for their turnings, I/we would appreciate some more examples of pine creations, and possible finishing types.
More than 50% of my turnings are made of Cyprus Pine, finished with a variety of possibilities, mostly with clear natural timber oils, some with light satin stains, others with heavy gloss stain, etc., etc. A large number of these pieces are displayed on my web site, under "All finished pieces", if you wish to have a look!

By-the-way, the pine plantation (source of most of my pine) in my previous post, is 50 acres, 25 years old, Cyprus Pine species. The bowl/platter on the pic in the same post is an European Pine that I'm not absolutely sure of its origin. The board used was part of a door frame painted white,removed from a house in ruins. According to the old house owner, the pine was imported from Europe (somewhere?) by his father, in the 1900's. The piece given to me was a one side door frame 83" long X 6" wide X 1.1/4" thick. The conditions were to joint 2 cuts ( 2 x width)and turn a display plate for him. I manage to salvage 4 cuts, so I've made a similar size piece but different shape for myself. I'm still searching on the Pine origin due to the fact that can be 1 out of 4 possible names. I have so far traced the origin as per Italy, now I need to see what was available in the 1900's, before I put a name to it.
:doh::D

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[Frank&Earnest]

There is something to be said for conciseness, huh? :D

Happy to take any bets now: http://www.mmdigest.com/Tech/Wood/Larix_decidua.jpg

[Manuka Jock]

RBTCO
It could be Baltic Pine .
It has been traded all over Europe for centuries

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pinus sylvestris
.........................................................
Known alternatively as Scots pine, Scots fir, Red Baltic pine, Red pine, and Redwood.
Sources : Scandinavia, the Baltic States, Northern Russia., and to a lesser extent Scotland.
color , yellowish white.
Weight , 26 Ib. per cubic foot.
The most important timber of commerce. Moderately strong, easily worked, and obtainable in every dimension, it is the recognised timber for general building construction. Regarded as the carpenter's standard wood it is used for roofing, joists, flooring, beams, partitions, window-frames, doors, fittings, kitchen furniture, and similar work.
For ecclesiastical carved work it was extensively employed in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries.

http://www.lostlagoon.com/wgafurniture/woods.html

[Frank&Earnest]

Close, but no cigar. You have given the reason yourself: "color , yellowish white." No way near your first choice, Douglas Fir. Good guess, though, that was indeed the second choice for structural work and because of its wider availability the most used in northern Europe. European larch is more confined to the Alps. Not to mention that DF was also imported and can't be excluded.

I agree with you that there is not much difference in the colour of the three pictures, and the finish could have darkened the bowl.

Therefore, RBTCO, to you the last word: if your bowl's timber is reddish it is larch, if it is only slightly more yellow than radiata, it is baltic pine. :)

[Manuka Jock]

Close, but no cigar. You have given the reason yourself: "color , yellowish white." No way near your first choice, Douglas Fir. Good guess, though, that was indeed the second choice for structural work and because of its wider availability the most used in northern Europe. European larch is more confined to the Alps. Not to mention that DF was also imported and can't be excluded.

I agree with you that there is not much difference in the colour of the three pictures, and the finish could have darkened the bowl.

Therefore, RBTCO, to you the last word: if your bowl's timber is reddish it is larch, if it is only slightly more yellow than radiata, it is baltic pine. :)


What first choice is that ?
I have made no choice , OK :)

[Frank&Earnest]

This looks to me to be Oregon - Doug Fir




Can we have a Scotenglish to Italenglish interpreter, please? :D

[Manuka Jock]

Can we have a Scotenglish to Italenglish interpreter, please? :D

"Looks to me to be " means 'looks to me to be '

It does not mean "is" :p

As to these two 'words' "Scotenglish" and "Italenglish" ,

they exist only in your mind , OK :rolleyes:

[Frank&Earnest]

"Looks to me to be " means 'looks to me to be '

It does not mean "is" :p

As to these two 'words' "Scotenglish" and "Italenglish" ,

they exist only in your mind , OK :rolleyes:

No, now they also exist here in cyberspace, for all the world to see. I might have created the buzzwords of tomorrow! :D