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JDarvall
3rd February 2008, 08:02 AM
Like this sort of thing.

http://www.timbecon.com.au/products/lathe-copy-attachments-376_0.aspx

I've never used one. Wondering how clean cutting it is with that blade ?

Imagine you use it to do most of the copy then latter remove the jig and clean it up yourself by hand ?

The more expensive woodfast ones there have different blades. When would you use them ? Harder timbers ?

Appreciate any thoughts.

Thanks.

Sawdust Maker
3rd February 2008, 08:26 AM
When I did the intro turning course up at trend timbers
The experienced presenter didn't have much time for them - suggested that they didn't ever really work properly or do a good enough job

Not sure I'd use one on turning handles as half the interest and usability is having them all a little different.

RETIRED
3rd February 2008, 12:05 PM
When I did the intro turning course up at trend timbers
The experienced presenter didn't have much time for them - suggested that they didn't ever really work properly or do a good enough job

Not sure I'd use one on turning handles as half the interest and usability is having them all a little different.I second that. Useless.

echnidna
3rd February 2008, 12:29 PM
Jake it doesn't take long to develop sufficient skills to turn spindles and legs etc.
The copy attachments are pretty hopeless.

If you want to do a lot of repetition work dig up a symtec lathe.
(shock horror expected from the old guard)

Gil Jones
3rd February 2008, 01:00 PM
A friend has a Sears lathe with a copy attachment that is made for his lathe. It "turns" out a very poor product. Even with sharp cutting bits, the turned surface is extremely rough and not worth the trouble of sanding.

Skew ChiDAMN!!
3rd February 2008, 01:47 PM
Baa! (I'm just joining the flock. :;)

I gotta agree, they're more or less useless.

Had a mate who bought one 'cos he reasoned he could turn to near size and then clean up. It didn't turn out that way - pun intended :p - 'cos by the time he'd cleaned up each piece they were no longer copies. By the time he'd worked out how to clean up each spindle without screwing them up he'd also discovered he could do the same job just as well and more quickly by hand.

:rotfl:

artme
3rd February 2008, 01:48 PM
Generally the attachments I have seen are roughly made and have Chinese/Engrish instructions. It says something when they can't be sold at super, super special prices.

The only copy attachment I ever saw that really worked was for a Symtec lathe. Lathe,copier and operater were brilliant. Alas they are no more.

JDarvall
3rd February 2008, 02:43 PM
thanks. So their no good.

I was playing with the idea of instead of a static tungsten cutter (or whatever it is), jig a little laminate trimmer on an aggressive cut with a V bit (?) along a template in a similar way, which may mean you move the router on the other side of the lathe ???

Could that work, uno, assuming the trimmer is kept stable the whole way along...All those rev's may make a smooth cut..(maybe )...

echnidna
3rd February 2008, 03:38 PM
that is a router lathe and a whole new ballgame

Skew ChiDAMN!!
3rd February 2008, 03:45 PM
I was playing with the idea of instead of a static tungsten cutter (or whatever it is), jig a little laminate trimmer on an aggressive cut with a V bit (?) along a template in a similar way, which may mean you move the router on the other side of the lathe ???

Ahhh,,, you've stumbled onto one of our "tricks." :U Yeah, that works, it's one of the ways we add fluting, spirals, etc onto our fancier pieces.

BTW, I'm assuming you mean with the lathe turned off and rotating the chuck by hand or, if motor driven, very very slowly in single digits for RPM?

Otherwise, lessee... a 1" dia spindle is 3+" around. At 500RPM that's 1500+ inches/min or around 40meters/min of wood passing under the tool tip. You wouldn't expect a router to safely or efficiently cut that fast when done by hand, would you...?

joe greiner
3rd February 2008, 10:15 PM
Automatic duplicators are essentially controlled scrapers, usually controlled by following a template or pattern, and impossible to get a good finish without lots of extra work.

But here's a few ways to "automate" production while attaining quality:
1. Mount some drop-down wires on a shaft parallel to the spindle. Wires loosely coiled around the shaft, with length of wires to mate with required diameters, and locations at critical reference points. Rest the wires atop the blank. When the wires drop down behind the workpiece, the diameters are established at reference locations; fair the shape between them with appropriate chisels/gouges.
2. Cut reference tenons at both ends of the workpiece. Use a "contour gauge" or a cardboard/hardboard template to define the shape. Check the shape frequently while cutting. A "contour gauge" is a contraption with a bunch of straight wires slidable in a clamp-like body; Google for more info. Usually limited to about 6 inches (150mm) working length; use cardboard for longer.
3. Haven't tried this one yet, but it sounds like the bee's knees: http://www.delorie.com/wood/tips/parallax-jig.html Build one and set up per the instructions to eyeball progress as you go.

Joe

JDarvall
4th February 2008, 05:43 AM
BTW, I'm assuming you mean with the lathe turned off and rotating the chuck by hand or, if motor driven, very very slowly in single digits for RPM?

Otherwise, lessee... a 1" dia spindle is 3+" around. At 500RPM that's 1500+ inches/min or around 40meters/min of wood passing under the tool tip. You wouldn't expect a router to safely or efficiently cut that fast when done by hand, would you...?

:- actually was thinking with the lathe turned on.

I'm not picturing your numbers there too well.

Thinking with an aggressive cut (so the routers not spinning with the lathe) it be cutting at the lathe speed + router speed. 2000rpm + say 10000 (?) ...Just adding the lathe speed

A small bit I was thinking wouldn't get too loaded. But I don't know. Its just an idea. :wink:

JDarvall
4th February 2008, 05:57 AM
Thankyou kindly Joe for the tips. Do like that idea in that link you gave too. Might first try the wires.

You all have saved me some money. Thanks. I was seriously thinking of buying one of those copy things too.

I was thinking about it because I remember reading on the net a chair maker with 25 years experience who said he used a copy lathe to do the majority of the work, then used the skew chisel to clean up. But the idea sounds a bit unrealistic. I don't know.

RETIRED
4th February 2008, 08:12 AM
:- actually was thinking with the lathe turned on.

I'm not picturing your numbers there too well.

Thinking with an aggressive cut (so the routers not spinning with the lathe) it be cutting at the lathe speed + router speed. 2000rpm + say 10000 (?) ...Just adding the lathe speed

A small bit I was thinking wouldn't get too loaded. But I don't know. Its just an idea. :wink:Tried it. Doesn't work, trust me.

echnidna
4th February 2008, 10:43 AM
bugga it ,
A cnc woodlathe sounded like a good project too.

littlebuddha
4th February 2008, 11:23 AM
Its like any tool, give it a chance, i made mine as i had to do a run of 50 odd turnings for someone and did not want to do it then i thought about it and gave it ago. I found it very good, more clean up then i usually have to do but well worth the time making it. It is a little slower than norm but the other benfits are that you save time on marking out. Its not a tool i would buy, not at the price that they sell them at. Does not take much to make, so try one. there are a few how to makes, there is a quick easy one on woodcentral.:2tsup: Always have a try, at least you then know and can gauge for one self..LB

Skew ChiDAMN!!
4th February 2008, 03:17 PM
I'm not picturing your numbers there too well.

Thinking with an aggressive cut (so the routers not spinning with the lathe) it be cutting at the lathe speed + router speed. 2000rpm + say 10000 (?) ...Just adding the lathe speed

I see... think of it this way: the router is spinning at normal speed.

The lathe is moving the wood under it, instead of you moving the router over the wood. The lathe moving the wood at 2000RPM is the same as your trying to rebate a trench or whatever by running along the wood with router in hand...

echnidna
4th February 2008, 04:27 PM
Its like any tool, give it a chance, i made mine as i had to do a run of 50 odd turnings for someone and did not want to do it then i thought about it and gave it ago. I found it very good, more clean up then i usually have to do but well worth the time making it. It is a little slower than norm but the other benfits are that you save time on marking out. Its not a tool i would buy, not at the price that they sell them at. Does not take much to make, so try one. there are a few how to makes, there is a quick easy one on woodcentral.:2tsup: Always have a try, at least you then know and can gauge for one self..LB

Hmmm. a homemade copier ala symtec style

I like the cutter idea.

JDarvall
4th February 2008, 08:10 PM
I see... think of it this way: the router is spinning at normal speed.

The lathe is moving the wood under it, instead of you moving the router over the wood. The lathe moving the wood at 2000RPM is the same as your trying to rebate a trench or whatever by running along the wood with router in hand...

:?...I think I get you.....so you don't think its just like turning the speed up a touch on the router a touch. uno how some routers got speed adjusters.

.. you know what !...I'm going to lock a bit in the trimmer, pad up, and give it a go...just to see what happens :D. could be fun.

it depend greatly on how you push it in. slip in from the top...or Must be some approach where it work. Ahhhhhh, forget it. :D

Skew ChiDAMN!!
6th February 2008, 09:45 PM
.. you know what !...I'm going to lock a bit in the trimmer, pad up, and give it a go...just to see what happens :D. could be fun.

So, didja try it? :?

JDarvall
6th February 2008, 10:19 PM
no. not yet. probably be a disaster, but I'll have a go this weekend. :wink:

hcbph
8th February 2008, 01:20 PM
Duplicators are like lathes: the better ones usually come with a price. I've had a cheap duplicator and performed up to the price of it. A few years ago I picked up a Vega Duplicator and it was a new day. I bought this one when I was bidding a job to make about 200 identical turnings (had to be exact duplicates). Once it came off the lathe, there was very little left except for some final sanding.

Paul

Sawdust Maker
8th February 2008, 04:47 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Woodlathe-copy-attachment-suit-200mm-centre-lathe_W0QQitemZ180212255019QQihZ008QQcategoryZ11810QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

artme
8th February 2008, 06:04 PM
The Symtec copiers were brilliant. If my memory serves me correctly they were a fair bit heavier than littlebuddha's and the cutter was ground to a triangular pyramid shape.
The real "trick with the copier seemed to be the grind of the cutter. I watched, somewhat awestruck, as the inventor literally threw the post, with cutter, intothe work. Nothing happened! the post simply went bac to a stable position ready to use.
I was also amazed by th intracy of what could be copied and the finish off the tool.

I have seen pictures of the Hegner copier before but never read any reports or run into anyone who has used it. Anyone out there?

Harry72
8th February 2008, 07:27 PM
They have a tip like one of those three faced chisels made from round stock.(duuno the name?)

One of my mates fathers has a large symtec 1500 between centers, I made some surround speaker stands on it years ago... they are perfect copys they needed very little sanding.

His cutter tool was homemade from a posty scooter rear axle!

JDarvall
8th February 2008, 07:31 PM
the cutter must slice with the grain..

Makes me think one could make a similar setup like that themself and push it in by hand.

Has anybody got a closeup picture of the cutter in use ?

Big Shed
8th February 2008, 07:32 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Woodlathe-copy-attachment-suit-200mm-centre-lathe_W0QQitemZ180212255019QQihZ008QQcategoryZ11810QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Didn't know MIK was selling on Ebay!

Sawdust Maker
8th February 2008, 07:52 PM
Well picked up BS :!:!:!:!

scooter
8th February 2008, 09:15 PM
They have a tip like one of those three faced chisels made from round stock.(duuno the name?)


Pyramid tool or three point tool I think.

Skew ChiDAMN!!
8th February 2008, 09:23 PM
three point tool I think.

:yes:

Odd, considering it has three facets which comes to only 1 point...

echnidna
8th February 2008, 09:42 PM
the 2 sides have a slight hollow in them and the point is square across about 1 to 1.5mm wide

JDarvall
8th February 2008, 10:18 PM
I found this goooogulin.

http://aroundthewoods.com/three.shtml

artme
9th February 2008, 08:23 AM
I seem to remeber mentioning a triangular pyramid in my last little dissetation.:roll:
Great site apricotripper.

JDarvall
9th February 2008, 08:50 AM
I thought it was pretty clever. When I googled triangluar pyramid, theirs another link thats similar too.

I'm tempted to buy a round HSS blank from that Gary Pye bloke and give it a go myself.

I still reakon with enough table support you'd be able to make a jig up yourself to do the same thing as that flashy setup, just by hand. Have to find the time to give it a go.