Murray River Photos from flight 221 (er actually 756) - a bit scary

[Boatmik]

Howdy,

Caught a plane back from Brisbane after visiting biting-midge and Jo and having the boat BBQ at Mooloolaba.

The plane passed over the Murray River very approximately around the juncture of NSW, Victoria and South Australia.

It all looks pretty disastrous and at times I wasn't sure I was travelling over Planet Earth.

The lower part of the Murray above the wiers is so saline that you can catch ocean fish in it now.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2202/2238308945_ef2782bc96.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2300/2239100388_f6f04b3410.jpg

The whole set is here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/boatmik/sets/72157603844141749/

MIK

[tea lady]

Amazing photos, but yes it does look scary. Should send them to the environment minister. Or the water minister. Or the news paper.:cool:

[Boatmik]

Maybe the weather report!!!

I'll try.

MIK

[b.o.a.t.]

Howdy,
The plane passed over the Murray River very approximately around the juncture of NSW, Victoria and South Australia.
MIK

Looks like Renmark at lower left of the first, Paringa at lower right.
The second one is from a little further downstream with Renmark/Paringa upper centre.
Astonishing photos - salty flats which would normally be green swampy areas.
Tea Lady's right - send 'em to the 'Tiser & Karleen.

cheers
AJ

[tea lady]

Is it all under water again now with recent rain, or did it manage to miss out?

[zathras]

Horrendous pictures of the Murray, but more importantly,

does flight 222 to Toowoomba actually exist?

[Christopha]

Good joke Tea Lady..... to anyone who lives East of South Australia!

[Boatmik]

Is it all under water again now with recent rain, or did it manage to miss out?

No - it will be many months until the water from the rains in Qld get down that far. Also flooding in one area might mean that the water "disappears" into the ground. Then on the way down there are lots of dams and weirs that need filling - not to mention a lot of the backwaters of the river itself.

Even before the drought there had been no outflows at the Murray mouth (where it enters the sea) for a few years.

We are all too greedy.

Michael (trying to shower less)

[Boatmik]

Horrendous pictures of the Murray, but more importantly,

does flight 222 to Toowoomba actually exist?

OK OK,

I used a made up number so I wouldn't have to check my itinerary.

The actual flght was DJ756 that left Brisbane at 11.25 and arrived Adelaide ten minutes before 2.35 on 29 January.

Haven't you heard of poetic licence?:o:o:o

MIK:roll:

[bitingmidge]

arrived Adelaide ten minutes before 2.35 on 29 January.

So the big hand was on seven but you got there when it was on five?

Or did you mean to say:ten minutes before 2.35 on two days after 27 of the month before February.

P
:p:p:p

[Boatmik]

Midge - I think you have waaaaaaay too much spare time!

MIK

[BobL]

OK OK,

I used a made up number so I wouldn't have to check my itinerary.

The actual flght was DJ756 that left Brisbane at 11.25 and arrived Adelaide ten minutes before 2.35 on 29 January.

Haven't you heard of poetic licence?:o:o:o

MIK:roll:

Did you apply that to the photo as well? :D

(BTW great shots!)

[Boatmik]

Howdy BobL,

When I took the original shots there was a lot of internal reflection from the two layers of glass - so I had to alter the brightness and contrast.

There is a bit of that fading out still in the top left corner of one of the pics - but got rid of most of it.

If anything the green bits are greener than they were when I used my eyes.

So only a little poetic licence.

MIK

[PhilW]

Hi Guys.
Mike
Spent 15 years teaching about the MDB and the problems of managing our most valuable catchment. Seeing your pictures is so sad. I have had 100's of boys each year find solutions to the problem of over use of wawter and yet we cant solve it on a political scale. Part of the problem is that it is a low gradient river with very slow flow rates and high evaporation as it passes through semiarid country. So it gets heavily polluted but more importantly over used. And as a Queenslander I am ashamed to say that we are one of the main contributing causes of it. Cubby Station takes a lot of volume out from surface flow that would normally end up as runoff in the river making its way downstream. Went to a debate with the owners many years ago and they simply refuse to recognise that the water should be allowed to flow downstream.

So what is the answer. It is an interjurisdictional catchment with a multitude of managing agents. (States, councils, shires, national parks, and land holders to name a few) So we need to have a central authority at the federal level who has total control of water distribution and management of the system with effective teeth to make binding decisions. But of course each state will scream about state rights and loss of potential revenue and jobs for their own. In the meantime we are destroying this amazing system and the surrounding land with saltation, desertification and loss of ecosystem both in the river and surrounding landscape. The end result for Adelaide is water you can not drink or use. (Toxic algae comes to mind. It will kill you if you drink it and burn your skin) Plus we are destroying the nations food bowl. So if I was in South Australia or in the lower reaches of the catchment I would furious :~and demanding an effective response to sort this out.

Sorry all but it has been frustrating :C to have spent so long investigating Environmental issues in particular this one and then to see these photos. What a tradegy and an inditement on our political leaders that they have let spectacular and so vital resourse get to this state......:no:....sighing big time... Phil

[tea lady]

Gee. Look where woodforum tenticals go. Someone who actually knew something. Don't take it personally PhilW. You obviously feel passionately about the issue. It is unfathomable to most of us (I think? ) the bloody mindedness on certain large agricultural companies.

Hubby was looking at google earth the other day (as you do) at central Australian landscape. Amazing how more people don't get lost.

This post doesn't make any sense does it. Oh well. Off to have a cup of tea.

[wheelinround]

Excellent photo's worth the time spent taking them:2tsup:

Maybe you should send them to Peter Garret and ask whats he going to do about it

Possible concert where he dances up a storm

[Buzza]

As an old timer, I have travelled across the Hay Plains to Sydney from Adelaide off and on for over forty years. When I did it at first, the Hay Plains had little to offer other than cattle grazing, and drovers even using the "Long Yard" out there. One night during the nineteen seventies, I stopped for a wee break, and found myself standing near a crop. This was something new to me, as I'd never seen any significant crops there before.

Years later, I saw levees constucted, with strange names on the substantial fences, warning tresspassers to keep out. Later I travelled on the NSW side of the river (with a load that was a little heavier than it should be). I was once again amazed to see water being diverted into paddies flooding a huge area.

The same happens in Queensland and the end result is that we have our own Rio Grande in Australia, caused by the very same people. The Rio Grande stopped reaching Mexico in the late nineteen fiftes I believe.

Our wonderful Murray River is now stuffed, and thanks to the idiots who have polluted it and used all of the water for useless over produced crops.

Flood the Murray this winter.
:~

[manoftalent]

if you think the photo's are staggering (thanks for showing them mate:2tsup:)......try and imagine how many liters we have lost and or it would take to top the murray back up again :?

[b.o.a.t.]

PhilW

Therein lies both the strength & weakness of our political system.
We don't elect "Leaders" ... We elect "servants" (look up the meaning of "minister" sometime.)
We should not be asking them what to do.
We should be telling them (loudly) what they must do.

Yet somewhere along the line, we have been led to expect leadership instead of servitude (by our media perhaps?).

As for looking to pollies for "salvation of the Murray".... since when have pollies been able to make it rain ?

As a related aside... there's an old joke in the bush-fire fighting fraternity that if you are the Incident Controller & and it all turns pear-shaped, you should strip to your jocks, behead a chicken and daub yourself freely with its blood and feathers, then dance & whoop your way around the Incident management room whilst banging on a tin drum. This will either:
a) cause it to rain, or
b) have you removed from the scene
Either way, the fire is no longer your problem !!

I wonder if this works for droughts, & will we see Kevin in his jocks...

That's as near to "green" as you will get me... :wink:
cheers
AJ
avowed anti-"greenie", taker of short showers, and perennial turner-downer of the heater ("Put a bl*** jumper on.")

[wheelinround]

PhilW

Therein lies both the strength & weakness of our political system.
We don't elect "Leaders" ... We elect "servants" (look up the meaning of "minister" sometime.)
We should not be asking them what to do.
We should be telling them (loudly) what they must do.

Yet somewhere along the line, we have been led to expect leadership instead of servitude (by our media perhaps?).

As for looking to pollies for "salvation of the Murray".... since when have pollies been able to make it rain ?

As a related aside... there's an old joke in the bush-fire fighting fraternity that if you are the Incident Controller & and it all turns pear-shaped, you should strip to your jocks, behead a chicken and daub yourself freely with its blood and feathers, then dance & whoop your way around the Incident management room whilst banging on a tin drum. This will either:
a) cause it to rain, or
b) have you removed from the scene
Either way, the fire is no longer your problem !!

I wonder if this works for droughts, & will we see Kevin in his jocks...

That's as near to "green" as you will get me... :wink:
cheers
AJ
avowed anti-"greenie", taker of short showers, and perennial turner-downer of the heater ("Put a bl*** jumper on.")

Well not as a pollie but as a group doing concerts out doors apparently they had a number of washed out concerts thats why I said about Garret.

Yes pollie's can do something along with the greenies, farmers etc .
All along the Darling/Murray are thousands of dead trees which when it comes and its going to, are going to be floating log jams.
These will do more damage and cost taxpayes more to fix damaged bridges, weirs and dams than removing them especially if Ian Keirnan gets everyone sucked in to a major clean up.

[PhilW]

Thanks Tea Lady
Your post made a lot of sense. Will calm down and go back to enjoying playing with wood. Just get caught up occasionally at the strange things that go on in this world.
Cheers
Phil

[Boatmik]

As far as I am concerned - the pics did their stuff. I think there are quite a range of political backgrounds in the views above ... AND WE ALL WANT SOMETHING DONE!!!!

Bless your cotton socks - all of you!

My ex used to work in the Federal Public Service in Canberra writing policy. They count every single letter they get as counting for 50 disgruntled voters.

A useful thing to remember!

Maybe I should put the pics up on a webpage and give a few different minister's emails - then we can see how many people we can influence to write?

I think the pics are quite a good carrot to inspire people to do something if it doesn't take too long.

I like the idea that it is cross political too.

MIK

Michael

[b.o.a.t.]

Well not as a pollie but as a group doing concerts out doors apparently they had a number of washed out concerts thats why I said about Garret.

Yes pollie's can do something along with the greenies, farmers etc .
All along the Darling/Murray are thousands of dead trees which when it comes and its going to, are going to be floating log jams.
These will do more damage and cost taxpayes more to fix damaged bridges, weirs and dams than removing them especially if Ian Keirnan gets everyone sucked in to a major clean up.

Had no idea about the washed-out concerts. Definitely time to reform the band, nightly gigs, every footy oval from Northam to Gundagai. Or is it only the Big Once-Off Concert what gets a plastering ?

Hadn't thought of the dead trees thing. I guess the last really big flood was pre-lock-up of significant trees, so many were 'harvested' for firewood, fenceposts, paddle-steamers & etc. The 'Oscar W' is an old snag clearance paddle steamer based at the Port of Goolwa. Has just been re-decked & a few other fixes. Timely work, perhaps? Hopefully...

Those photos still wow me, even on their 30th or 40th viewing. Stayed on a farm / B&B just upstream of the 1st one 2 years ago. It was dry then, and the water in their backwater arm was not actually stagnant, but not 'fresh' either. I gather it is now choked with weeds, & the island opposite has bercome a peninsula. Need rain. Lots of it. Soon.

Thanks for the photos MIK
cheers

[Tor]

and when we get the rain we need it to flow down the river to the sea not to evaporate in a field or channel.

Tor

[PhilW]

Hi Guys
The trouble as I see it with all this is that we are trying to utilise a very fragile ecosystem as a major resource. We have put in 100's of dams and weirs along the MDB system and because it is in inland Aus, it is hot so the spreading out of the water causes high evoporatoin rates. So we lose a lot of water from the system. But we need to supply drinking water to people who live in these areas. Plus the demands of irrigation. So then we get salinisation of the soil. Salt rises and destroys vegetation. So it rains and soil washes into the river silting up the dams and weirs making them shallower so more heating and evaporation. And this is only one problem. With regard to the river bank trees, they hold the banks together and provide shade for estuarine species. Without them it is hotter and more silt in the river.. Plus more nutrient runoff, toxic algae and etc. Plus we reduce water to the wetlands which serve to clean and filter the river so S.A. gets dirtier water.

So less water running to the mouth, higher silt, nutrient and salt loads. So what do we do? Perhaps we need to do this a whole lot smarter. Yes politicians (cause they have the power to organise at a national level) need to start up a nationalised coordinated approach based on good science and sustainable resource management. Within this context it needs to be apolitical with a decision making capacity that is enforceable.

In the US, the Colorado is another river that empties into the Navada Desert as a trickle cause they have simply utilised the entire river to the point that it stopped flowing. But the Murray and Darling and its tributaries are more fragile with very low flow rates. If we dont sort this out soon, given current climate change concerns, then we may pay a hefty price in the near future. Plus it is part of our national heritage. I guess that one of the main stumbling blocks is that we simply dont appreciate that humans and their actions are part of a planetary ecosystem. We think that we can act without due regard to what happens down the line and in this case, from a Queensland perspective, without due regard for those downstream. We dont see this from a catchment perspective.

There. Enough ranting.

PhilW
I have too much time on my hands

[Boatmik]

Hi Phil,

The good thing is that there is a big groundswell now which will force a lot of change.

I was a bit amused to see a letter to the editor in the Adelaide Advertiser last week saying that doing something about climate change was "too expensive" and that the money should be spent elsewhere.

But the groundswell has so obviously changed.

Big corporations too - BP (British Petroleum) is one of the top three or four producers of solar cells in the world - they used to be number one a few years ago.

Politics (almost) of necessity has to lead from behind - now both major parties and almost all the minor ones are in broad agreement ... things might change a bit faster.

In some places politics is leading the game - California with its deep cuts in car emissions has been a driver of the current hybrid and efficient diesel push - ensuring a base level of economy of scale. Some cities have made low energy lightbulbs mandatory - again ensuring economy of scale.

So far within the community most people are doing some small things to change their lifestyles. Water consumption in capital cities has had a significant drop over the last couple of years (article in the OZ).

However despite most making some changes, others individual changes are moving ahead of legislation and are making big changes themselves.

Duck Flat has built a few drop in plywood units that go into an existing shower recess and collect the water and pump it outside to the garden using a boat bilge pump ... that would be good little project to have up on the woodwork forums!? I was in Qld when they made it so there are no photos.

It is just a shame I wasn't quite ready to hear the message when my Geography teacher in 1972 did a lesson on ozone, greenhouse and population control! Sympathetic ... yes ... we all were.

Best wishes
Michael

[PhilW]

Hi Michael
Yes..Despite my rantings you are correct. There certainly has been a strong groundswell of change. Cars are the classic with some pretty great improvements in design and efficiencies. So we are getting there...
Great idea about the bilge pump for the showers. So simple and obvious.

And I agree with you that people lead the way and pollies and governments often follow. Look what is happening now with this new fed government. So maybe we need to hold on to the positive aspect of this all that we are making changes and will indeed solve the problems arising from our past actions.

On another issue, have not been able to take the Eureka out since the launch cause it has been pretty inclement weather up here lately. So she sits in the garage looking at me every day waiting for another demonstration of her seaworthiness. Soon.....

Cheers
Phil

[b.o.a.t.]

I've put a couple of photos of Lake Alexandrina at Clayton Bay in the Building & Plans - Paradox thread. The lakes are down by about 1 metre & are now something like 300mm below low-tide level outside the barrages. In context - the average normal depth of Alexandrina is around 3.2M, & around 2M in Albert, so take a metre off those numbers. According to my chart, it should currently be possible to wade across the entire 10km x 25km of Lake Albert (hmmmm.... might try that next weekend), and the connecting channel to Alexandrina would be feet-dry at times, depending on wind strength & direction.

The official estimate is that 2.4 gigalitres per annum is lost from the lakes (1380sqKM x 1.75M annual evaporation) - roughly the same as SA's normal total annual **mains** water consumption for all purposes -does not include a further average 1300GL for agriculture (but not this year !!!) - mostly surface water or extracted from the river. http://www.environment.sa.gov.au/reporting/human/water/total_mains.html
Note that when "environmental flows" are discussed, this 2.4GL evaporation has to be met before any water flows out the mouth of the river. Which is being dredged in an attempt to keep the Coorong alive.

Given that all of South Australia (except the lower South-East and the far north & west) is currently 100% dependant on sucking the Murray at the moment, it would be interesting to know which way the river is currently flowing around Murray Bridge & Mannum. I'm guessing upstream, out of the lakes to the pumping stations. Whatever, only about 50% or less of what little water is getting down here can actually be used. The rest is lost in evaporation. The water that gets here, and the residual in the lakes, is fast becoming more expensive to make potable due to increasing concentrations of salts & algal blooms & etc. On top of that, our reservoirs hold only about 12 months supply & are full of Murray River water, not run-off.

So if you eastern states people reckon we Crow Eaters are a bit... "sensitive" about the Murray, there's why.

cheers
AJ

[Boatmik]

And as I said some time earlier - above the barrages where the fresh water is supposed to be, some fishermen were catching "Salmon Trout" a saltwater species.

MIK

[tea lady]

Paying the price of doing something about climate change seems to be something we can't get out of. We'll end up paying even if we do nothing, and maybe even more than "they" think we can afford.:no: