Thicknesser or jointer planer

[Woodster]

I am a relative newbie, and am setting up a workshop in a double garage. I am buying a H&F ST-10c saw bench and a 2hp d/c.

I am unsure which to purchase a 6" jointer and a H&F 121/2" thicknesser, or is it better off getting the T-260 planer- thicknesser.
And if the T-260 am i able to use it as a jointer.

Any advise would be appreciated, thank you:)

[Dean]

I don't own a PT-260 but I'm sure it is fine as a jointer.
Obviously, the PT-260 is better if you have space limitations, but separate machines save you the hassle of switching modes on a combo machine.

[Woodster]

Thanks for ur reply. Does it take much to change from planer to thicknesser, i would have thought it would be the same process basically.

Is it better to have a 12" thicknesser and a 6" jointer. or go with the H&F planer and thicknesser.

Eg: if u try to get a piece of timber to the same thickness at each end does the thicknesser do this or do i need a planer. I was told that a thicknesser would not make a piece of timber the same thickness all the way through.:confused:

[Dean]

not sure how long exactly to switch the PT-260. If Wayne is looking he might offer an answer as he has a PT-260.

A thicknesser should be able to reduce a board evenly.
But you need to have the opposite surface dead flat to run on the thicknesser table to get an even thickness. To do this you have to flatten that surface with the jointer.

[Woodster]

Thank again for ur reply:) :)

By the sounds of it it might be better to get the thcknesser and planer. One would assume (i know the obvious comeback lol)
that the planer could also be able to be used as a jointer, excuse my ignorance with these machines but have never used em. I'm basically starting from the beginning have some wood tools and power tools but reading through the forums, I'm hoping to set up a good shop utilising the information gleaned from this site.

Any further views would be much appreciated

Thank you

[Pantherx]

Hi Woodster,

You seem to be in the same position I was 12 months ago. I've got a large single garage (7 x 3.6m) with the follwoing setup.

These are all separate machines

* Router Table (homemade)
* 10" Tablesaw (Carbatec TSC-10HB)
* 8" Jointer (Carbatec CTJ-350)
* 15" Thicknesser (H&F)
* 14" Bandsaw (Carbatec BAS-350)
* 2Hp Dust extractor placed in pitched roof cavity
* Bench Drill & Dropsaw
* Good bench space around one end of the garage with an extra table at the end of the tablesaw.

Since you have a double garage I'm sure you'll fit enough single machines. It's great moving from machine to machine without major setup changes.

Make sure you have good electrics within the garage. 20A circuits for machines & 10A for lights. 15A power points as most machines have 15A plugs nowadays & a few short 15A power extension leads.

Lots of money I know but I'm sure you'll negotiate well when purchasing multiple machines. Give Carbatec a call in Qld - think they are having a pre-Xmas sales like Sydney.

Have fun........................

PS Don't forget garage security, I've already been hit once this year. Now the garage is like fort knox. I was insured and got everything replaced thank god !

[crozdog]

Woodster,

I too was in a similar position last year. I ended up choosing the H&F T-260 planer- thicknesser - due to my space constraint & they had the best deal at the wood show (the $ I saved allowed me to buy a dust collector). It took a little tuning eg petroleum jelly (vaseline) on the slides & some minor filing / emery work on the fence to ensure ease of adjustment.

I've been very happy with it since. Even resetting the blades is pretty easy - I use a long piece of RHS aluminium (square section) place it on the outfeed table & slowly adjust the blade up at one end till it JUST touches the RHS then do the other end then check the centre then recheck all. I have just picked up a dial indicator & base so hopefully that will make it even more accurate. Setting the blades accurately is critical to avoid snipe on the ends.

To convert from planer to thicknesser is a simple process which basically involves:
- removing the outfeed table,
- winding up the infeed table to remove the dust chute
- mounting the duct chute on top of the cutter head
- adjusting the depth of cut (I always use a test piece & creep up
to the desired thickness).

Cheers

Crozdog

[Pete J]

'pon my soul . . .I do believe I have the same conundrum.

Am I wrong in thinking that if one buys the PT260 or equivalent that jointing width capacity is extended? Ie. there is a big jump in price from the 6" jointers up, but the combination machines give you much increased jointing capacity. I have read that some woodworking men (as opposed to us young sprouts looking from the outside though the dusty windows) do a lot of jointing and thicknessing and need the two machines. If one is doing this only occasionally, wouldn't the small amount of re-arrangement of the machine be worth the reduced cost and the increased jointing capacity??

Just a thought you know, and I need to get rid of them quickly as they get very lonely.

[silentC]

I went through the agonising over this myself late last year.

On the one hand, with the planer/thicknesser you get a 10" jointer into the bargain, on the other hand, with separate machines you can get a 12" plus thicknesser. My reasoning was that I can plane a 12" board on a 6" jointer but I can't thickness a 12" board in a 10" thickesser. I have the space for both (just), so I bought both.

It's a slightly more expensive option but it's very convenient not having to change over every time I want to plane a board or use the thicknesser.

I bought both machines from Hare and Forbes. The thicknesser is 13 1/2" and the jointer is the 6" P150. I did a review of the jointer here: http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6582&highlight=jointer

[craigb]

My reasoning was that I can plane a 12" board on a 6" jointer

Darren,

How are you jointing a 12" board on a 6" jointer?

Do you mean you are removing the gaurd to do it?

Craig

[Sir Stinkalot]

Not wanting to be rude and invasive but would it be possible to post approximate dollar values next to the model numbers ...... I find I often read posts at work (don’t we all) and I do not have the catalogues handy to check prices ..... I get all excited over how good some products sound until the price is mentioned and then there is the need for a rethink, even a ball park figure would be handy. It is the same when you read reviews in the woodworking mags .... they talk up a product to such a point until you must rush out and buy it until you find that the engineering square guaranteed 100% accurate is actually $10,000. :rolleyes:

Sir Stinkalot

[silentC]

Well, not that I would do it nor recommend it, but if I had to do it and no-one was watching, I could do it or possibly have done it. But I would certainly use a couple of push blocks if I did.

Err, excuse me, is that the phone?

[crozdog]

Sir Stinkalot,

I picked up my combo unit (PT260) at the wood show for around $860. I then picked up a 1hp DC from Carbatec for $169 the total for both was less than the list for the PT260!

Shop around & haggle, if you can - hold out to the wood show as I have always found top show specials!!

You can checkout quite a few catalogues online now. Have a look at :

www.timbecon.com.au (the PT260 can be found at http://www.timbecon.com.au/productsdetail.asp?prodid=27774&searchOffset=0)
http://www.carbatec.com.au/ (I have noticed thet this site doesn't seem to have all their catalogue online)
http://store.yahoo.com/gpwoodturning/index.html

Unfortunately Hare & Forbes haven't got there yet. :(

Crozdog

[Wayne Davy]

I also have the PT-260 from Carbatec and have had it for nearly two years now. I chose this machines for three reasons, principally:
1. It's a 10" Jointer
2. Small footprint for my small shop
3. Price (paid around $950 from memory)

I have thrown quite a bit of wood (hard/pine/old/new) through it and it has not falter. (Just make sure you get a metal detector to go with as blades can get expensive to replace.)

As for changing modes, I actually timed myself on the weekend to change from Jointer to Thicknesser mode - less than 50 seconds!! It is really quick. Have to agree that it took a while to get setup when I got it but what machine doesn't!! Anyway, if you are short on cash/space (and who isnt), check them out.

[Pete J]

And the other thing that might make a difference is snipe. Does anyone know if there a significant difference between the amount of snipe you get from a combination machine to that you get from a similar quality dedicated thicknesser?

[silentC]

Just make sure you get a metal detector to go with as blades can get expensive to replace

Not that I'm suggesting you throw caution to the wind, but if you do happen to get a nick in the blade, I wouldn't worry too much about it because you'll need to plane or sand your timber after it's been thicknessed anyway, unless you like the corrugated look.

However, this is a problem with the disposable-blade type machines. My thicknesser has reversible blades which reads 'disposable' to me. With the jointer, if I happen to hit something nasty, I can sharpen the blades to get rid of the nick. Not sure about the thicknesser. Can you sharpen the blades in the PT-260?

[Wayne Davy]

Pete,

re Snipe - my PT-260 doesn't do too bad and any snipe I get is very minimal. It usually only happens on long pieces that I fail to support on exit. From what I understand, to really remove/reduce snipe, you need a very big table (or in/out support tables) and this usually means lots more dollars.


SilentC,

The blades are reversable but I have sharpened them before including removing some small nicks (see Veritas planer blade jig (http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews/veritasplanerbladejig.htm) review I did). As the blades are small, I would only de-nick them once though. After that it would be nigh on impossible to set them to the correct height as their width would be reduced to much.

As for planning the wood after the thicknesser!!! Nope, with really sharp blades it comes out beautiful and just about ready for only finish sanding.

[silentC]

As for planning the wood after the thicknesser!!! Nope, with really sharp blades it comes out beautiful and just about ready for only finish sanding

I guess that depends on the timber. All dressed timber has that wavy pattern in it that runs parallel to the blades. I've just dressed some hardwood and I suppose I could sand it but I reckon you get a better finish with a smoothing plane or a scraper.

I used to make components for meranti staircases and we had an 8 foot table sander which made short work of the ripples.

[Wayne Davy]

SilentC,

True about the ripples but I have found the PT-260 with sharp blades to be pretty good. You are very correct about the DAR from the yards nearly always having ripples (one piece on the bed sneaked past my apprentice - she was fed up sanding).

Oh, for a Drum Sander - one day.

[crozdog]

Pete,

I agree with Wayne re snipe that is support is required for longer boards on the outfeed. I would also add that I have been successful in pretty well eliminating snipe through the combination of careful blade adjustment & support on the outfeed.

Mind you I never thickness a board which has already been cut to length - just in case.

I cannot comment re more expensive units or dedicated machines as i have no experience with them.

On the occasion when I have nicked a blade, If I am working on narrower boards, as the PT260 has a 10" cutter, I can move the fence across to a good section of the cutter & continue to work instead of having to worry about aditional planing/sanding or resharpening blades.

Crozdog

[DarrylF]

If timber is coming out of a thicknesser with ripples in it, you're doing something wrong, the machine isn't set up right, or it's a POS IMHO.

Anything I put through mine comes out nice, can be sanded straight up (usually with 180 grit up) and looks good.

Don't worry about snipe - just thickness full lengths and cut off the sniped ends afterwards. You've always got to dock to length anyway, and unless you're using ebony or something cutting off 60mm instead of 20mm makes very little difference. Sure it's nice to be able to eliminate it when needed (cutter head lock on the machine, outfeed supports, correct technique etc) but it's really not worth spending lots of bucks or lots of time on.

[silentC]

Darryl,

Have to disagree with you there. I've been working with jointers and thicknessers on and off for 20 years and I've never seen one that can cut completely smooth without leaving any mark.

"Ripple" was the best word I could think of to describe the appearance of the mark left by the cutter. Perhaps "milling marks" would have been better. They are very small and actually difficult to see unless you look closely but they are certainly there. Some are worse than others and they will be exaggerated if the feed rate is too high.

You're absolutely correct that sanding is all that is needed to get rid of them but again I maintain that you wont get a better finish with hardwood than planing or scraping. Both methods will remove them.

Cheers,
Darren

[craigb]

Darren,

I have to go with Darryl on this one.
I have the same thicknesser as he does (DeWalt) and there just isn't any ripples on the planned wood it produces even if you look really closely.
He's also right about the finish, it's definitely smoother than a something sandedwith 120 grit.
180 would be about right.
Also, I get zero snipe with it so long as the board is supported properly.

Craig

[silentC]

Hmmm, well I'll have to take your word for it. They must be pretty amazing machines is all I can say. How many blades have they got?

[craigb]

They have a three blade cutter head running at 10,000 rpm so you get 30,000 cuts per minute.
Which may explain the smoothness of the cut.

[silentC]

Yep probably would explain it. Mine has two blades and there is definitely a mark left by the cutter. You can't feel it but you can see it in certain light. Like I said, I've never used one that didn't leave a mark, including two or three big machines in joineries but I've never used a DeWalt. Mine was about $500 cheaper than the DeWalt so you get what you pay for.

Anyway, all I was trying to say was don't worry too much about getting a nick in the blade, as you'll probably want to sand it after thicknessing anyway.

Sheesh :rolleyes:

[DarrylF]

Craig,

I think you must have a different model to me - mine has a 2 blade cutterhead.

I've put everything from radiata pine to huon pine, jarrah, tassie oak, silver ash, myrtle, blue gum, red gum, rosewood, celery top pine, sassafras, crow's ash and a bunch of others through it. Never once has a piece come out the other end with ripples in it. Obviously a nick in a blade results in a less than perfect surface - but that sands out easily. Really curly timber it has trouble with - but all thicknessers do.

You do get what you pay for - but a $500 thicknesser is much better than no thicknesser at all :)

Maybe other machines can feed faster, feed heavier timber, cut wider etc, with a trade off on quality of surface - no idea, my experience is only with this one and the Ryobi that I took back after a day (because of the crappy results from it).

[Cliff Rogers]

G'day.

Some of it does come from the operator and/or set up of the machine for sure....

The BIG timber yard near me has machines that cost heaps more than a years wages for the dill operators that they employ.
I won't order DAR timber from them ever again 'cos it's not worth the money.
I was VERY disappointed with the quality of the workmanship.

[Iain]

Re snipe, have a look at this link on a possibility on how to avoid it.
http://www.woodshopdemos.com/plan-pm.htm
As for nicks in the blade, only small ones mind you, I just slightly offset the cutters and the problem has gone until sharpening time.