Storer Paddles (the free plan ones) and wood in Slovenia

[Theodor]

Mik,

Yesterday I purchased, dressed and cut 2 lovely 32x32mm pieces of WRC for making paddles according to your plans. OK .. just don't ask me where my canoe is and we'll all get along just fine!

So anyway, I was a bit confused as to which dimensions I'm marking up my shaft. The diagram on page 9 has similar drawings, yet the dimensions are different for the section where the blade sits. For a single blade paddle, do I want a 21.6mm or 19.7mm radius/ellipse?


I was also trying to understand the Appendix under the title “Wet-on-Wet Coating…” and the first lines says: ‘Great improvements have been made to Bote Cote brand epoxy in regards to this problem’. What problem? I think you mention the problem in the second paragraph – suffering from wax. It seems like I am stepping into the second half of a conversation. Then in the 5th paragraph, you say, ‘This is why I always use a “wet-on-wet” epoxy application method (see “epoxy coating” above)’. Where is “epoxy coating” above? I can’t see that. I still have no idea what wet-on-wet application is. If you are referring to the directions for “Final Epoxy coating” (page 16), then I am totally stumped because those instructions refer to the Appendices.

Do you think trying to start such stuff at 11pm is stupid? I do.

Anyway, hope this helps other n00bs to boat construction stuff.

[Boatmik]

Howdy Theodor,

DRAWING
There are two paddle designs in this plan. One is for a double and one is for the single.

See that the drawing on that page one of the paddles is broken off at the top - the jagged edge. That is the double the other end is the same as the one shown.

The unbroken one is the single which is what you are building.

TIMBER CHOICE
The timber choice is a little problematic these days.

Oregon (Douglas Fir) is still the best choice but if you have access to some nice spruce that will be fine too. Good spruce is very unlikely in Australia.

You could use Hoop Pine - though because of its tendency to bend (as it is plantation grown) I would tend to make the shaft up of three laminations to prevent this from happening.

With Western Red Cedar it might not be quite strong enough for the paddles in the neck area. However if you put a layer of thin glass cloth - maybe 2oz from where the measurement of 27.9mm is to the blade end of the loom there will be no problems.

Duckflat has this weight of cloth off the roll and you would only need half a metre which can be put in an envelope and posted if you cannot find a local supplier.

WET ON WET
When needing to put a number of coats on something this is the ONLY way to do it. First coat - let it go tacky, second coat - let it go tacky - third coat and finish or keep going as the case may require.

This avoids the amine waxy residue that comes to the surface until the job is completed and avoids sanding between coats too.

Most of the quality epoxies have a "low waxing" hardener, but may charge extra for it. Bote Cote and some others have it as standard. Their standard resin is also a low yellowing formulation (there are others that offer this as well).

Best wishes
Michael

[Theodor]

OK .. Thanks for the clarification. Have you considered hiring an editor to check that sort of thing on your plans? Obviously I'm asking a lot for some free plans!

I got the WRC as the only piece of Oregan I found had a huge knot in the middle of it. I will consider the cloth down along the back of the blade. It seems like a good idea anyway, and I doubt it'll add too much weight.

[Boatmik]

Howdy Theodor,

I don't earn enough to hire anyone!!!! I just survive by myself.

What happens is I get feedback like the above and I correct the plans.

The funny thing is that dozens of people can build from one plan and then another person will come along and say that they don't understand.

It doesn't mean that they are stupid either - people approach things in different ways - and what one person "gets" will miss others completely.

Like it took me 3 months working loading trucks to learn the Truckies' Hitch knot (Trucker's Hitch in the USA) even though I was shown it daily.

I just couldn't get it ... then it clicked. And I prided myself on the knots at that time too!!

And then one day it clicked - WHY did I have trouble at all - it seemed so obvious.

Plans are like that too. Lots of people have built the paddle plans and generally I wait until a second person has a problem - unless it is something like a numerical error or logic error where I will fix it quickly.

Thanks for that.

Michael

[nickpullen]

Hi Mik.

I'm starting the paddles now... single ended.

Do we only have to taper the shaft on one axis? I can only see measurements for one set of opposing sides.

So its tapers left and right on the sides, and the face only shaped where the blade attaches, back is untouched, otherwise it remains 32mm the entire length?

Thanks.

[Daddles]

Hey Mik,

were you aware that in the PDR plans, you talk about wet on wet and its benefits, but don't actually explain how to do it? I reckon you'd improve the plans greatly with a dedicated explanation for the sole reason that this particular technique is one of the big advances in modern boat building. It's also easy for someone who only half understands the process to get confused and there is a lot of counter discussion on forums that can lead to even more confusion.

What I'm specifically suggesting is:
- One appendix with the title Wet on Wet.
- A description of what it is (one paragraph may be).
- A paragraph on WHEN to do the coats - you've already pulled me up once with a misconception I had based on oft repeated comments on forums. Besides, a newcomer NEEDS guidance on that point.
- A paragraph on why it works - chemical bond, avoiding the waxing, less chance of trapping fairies between the layers.

I realise that most of this information is scattered through those plans, but I do think it it's important enough to be all in one place.

Richard

[nickpullen]

sorted out.. did it as per above....

Mik, do you know there is an error in your spare gauge drawing? I fixed it up....

She's almost done!!!

[Boatmik]

Yes the taper is only on one pair of faces. You don't want to reduce the stiffness in the plane of the loads - so removing weight off the sides is great as it doesn't affect the stiffness much.

MIK

[sloaleks]

Mik,

Yesterday I purchased, dressed and cut 2 lovely 32x32mm pieces of WRC for making paddles according to your plans. OK .. just don't ask me where my canoe is and we'll all get along just fine!

So anyway, I was a bit confused as to which dimensions I'm marking up my shaft. The diagram on page 9 has similar drawings, yet the dimensions are different for the section where the blade sits. For a single blade paddle, do I want a 21.6mm or 19.7mm radius/ellipse?


I was also trying to understand the Appendix under the title “Wet-on-Wet Coating…” and the first lines says: ‘Great improvements have been made to Bote Cote brand epoxy in regards to this problem’. What problem? I think you mention the problem in the second paragraph – suffering from wax. It seems like I am stepping into the second half of a conversation. Then in the 5th paragraph, you say, ‘This is why I always use a “wet-on-wet” epoxy application method (see “epoxy coating” above)’. Where is “epoxy coating” above? I can’t see that. I still have no idea what wet-on-wet application is. If you are referring to the directions for “Final Epoxy coating” (page 16), then I am totally stumped because those instructions refer to the Appendices.

Do you think trying to start such stuff at 11pm is stupid? I do.

Anyway, hope this helps other n00bs to boat construction stuff.


Theodor,
where did you get WRC in Slovenia? I've got the book and plans for a cosine wherry, but am now much more inclined towards the GIS as okoume plywood is much easyer to find in SLO rather than WRC (this one I didn't find at all). Mebbe in future you'd like to join me in making the forms for the cosine if enough WRC is available for strips? We could share the form, make two boats out of it, rip the cedar for strips at one place to make less of a mess etc ...

[Theodor]

Theodor,
where did you get WRC in Slovenia? I've got the book and plans for a cosine wherry, but am now much more inclined towards the GIS as okoume plywood is much easyer to find in SLO rather than WRC (this one I didn't find at all). Mebbe in future you'd like to join me in making the forms for the cosine if enough WRC is available for strips? We could share the form, make two boats out of it, rip the cedar for strips at one place to make less of a mess etc ...

I was actually in Australia at the time when I built the WRC paddle. I haven't done any extensive research yet into the availability of WRC here. In fact, Koala and I have been trying to find cheap, local options for wood in the Storer designs. We figure we can use spruce (smreka) as a substitute for WRC, or the pine (bor) which Bauhaus sells in 30mmx30mmx2000mm strips - or maybe you have some Bor in your backyard you could cut down, dry and use?

The Cosine (I found some pics of it at http://home.nycap.rr.com/boats/NEWCOSINE.html) looks like a nice challenge. If you're around Ljubljana (Koala lives in Komenda near Brnik airport) we'd be interested in helping you out on your boat. I have the GIS plans but that'll be a future build for me. Koala and I are currently planning to make some of the PDR racers first. We're slowly gathering materials for it atm - we can get okume from Javor easily enough, Bor strips for chines, and soon we're heading to Coatia to check out a store which sells the West System epoxy and fibreglass (http://www.yachtcenter.hr/).

Sounds like there will be more boat builders in Slovenia sooner than expected!!

[sloaleks]

Theo,
black and red pine native to Slovenia are a bit knotty on plantation trees, but I had a log of old growth black pine, roughly 1 metre diametre that was quite acceptable and I can get more of that wood. It is not as rot resistant as one would like, in fact the boards blackened in a week because no aeration sticks were placed between layers as the boards were laid to dry. A good spruce might be better, I think. Javor also sports a nice selection of oaks, cherry and tropical hardwoods.
I live very near Ljubljana, on one of the hills overlooking Sostro.

Where were you planning to sail your dinghies? The Zbilje accumulation lake is quite near, but there's almost no wind ... lake Cerknica is more promising - it's quite a long ride to Koper or Izola for an afternoon of sailing.

Cheers, Aleks

[Theodor]

You'll have to ask Koala about all the good sailing spots - he has been checking out places to sail his Eureka. I've wanted to christen anything I build on Bohinjsko jesero because its just picturesque. Unfortunately it is never very deep along the shores so I always picture putting it in the water then as I get in I'll put a huge hole in the bottom!

Anyway, send us a PM if you need a hand with the boat.

Mark

[Boatmik]

Hi Sloaleks!

And welcome.

If you are going ahead with the Cosine Wherry, there is a well known but minor error in the full size patterns supplied with the plans.

If you don't know that there is a problem it can be very frustrating, but if you know it is pretty easy to deal with.

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=40561

The trick is that the cedar strips will always want to take a smooth curve, so if one of the temporary frames is not high enough you just ignore it.

Best wishes
Michael

[sloaleks]

I didn't know that, thanks mik! The wherry is on my list, but I think I'll rather start with the GIS this fall.

Cheers, Aleks

[Boatmik]

No Worries Aleks!!!

It is the sharing of knowledge that makes the world work!

Best wishes
Michael

[sloaleks]

You'll have to ask Koala about all the good sailing spots - he has been checking out places to sail his Eureka. I've wanted to christen anything I build on Bohinjsko jesero because its just picturesque. Unfortunately it is never very deep along the shores so I always picture putting it in the water then as I get in I'll put a huge hole in the bottom!

Anyway, send us a PM if you need a hand with the boat.

Mark


Thanks for the offer, Mark. Lake Bohinj has no wind worth to mention BTW, except just ahead of a rainstorm. Lake Cerknica is the only one (apparently) with enough wind to be used by windsurfers on occasion. As for the depth of the water along the shores, that might be true at the bridge ahead St. Janez church and in Ukanc. Most of the shore on the "long" sides sweeps deep very quickly, it's a glacial lake after all. But you are right, you can only launch a boat in the "marina" - a mere boatshed really -near St. Janez church.

Cheers, Aleks