Would This work?? King size Bed, Rails And Sliding Dovetails??? [Archive]

View Full Version : Would This work?? King size Bed, Rails And Sliding Dovetails???

thetassiebfg

19th February 2008, 10:20 AM

Hi Everyone

I am about to build a King size bed out of Tassie Blackwood and Leatherwood and was thinking of making the rails (or frame, sides and ends of the bed) with Blackwood (approx 160mm*30mm*length) then attaching to the top and bottom of those pieces at 90 degrees a strip of leatherwood that has a bullnose routed onto it.(i'd give you a picture to better explain but my cad program isn't talking to me at the moment)

My question is this "I would like to use a sliding dovetail to join the two would this be feasible?"
I am thinking mostly in terms of natural expansion and contraction of the materials and what that would to do the bed over the course of the years rather then the technical issues of routing the actual dovetails.

The other option is to butt join using a domino

any advice or comments appreciated

Andrew

markharrison

19th February 2008, 11:04 PM

If I had a clue of what you are talking about I would probably offer an opinion on your proposal.:)

But as I don't, I will go ahead and offer an opinion anyway.:D:D

I'm building a bed (king size single for my daughter) and I am about 95% complete. All the joinery is cut, most of the components are sanded and just need to be glued together.

I digress, I have attached the rails to the footboard and headboard using traditional bed bolts and a stub tenon. This is an incredibly strong joint that is time tested. I fully expect that it will see at least a couple of generations of little Harrison's out.

There are also simple hardware solutions that are not as technically difficult, not that I found this difficult.The hardest part is drilling the holes for the bed bolts into the rails. I used a brace and 3/8" bit. I had one wander off a bit because the bit refused to follow my suggestions and followed the direction of the grain, but even that is not a great drama as it is never seen.

Harry72

20th February 2008, 12:09 AM

Yep I agree with Mark, stub tenons with bolts which go through a steel cross dowel.
Or for a more traditional approach do extra long tenons and put a through wedge/peg in them, like an old trestle table.

echnidna

20th February 2008, 08:46 AM

Fitting cross-grain timber to the rails of a bed is not a good practise even with sliding dovetails as the movement will be very pronounced over such a distance.

The correct way to achieve the effect you want is to apply veneer to the the rails,
To get the bullnose effect you want you will first need to steam bend the veneer to shape on formers before you apply it. Then you still need to bullnose the rails so the veneer will fit.

It seems a very odd thing to do as bed rails are usually unseen when the bedding is in place.

markharrison

20th February 2008, 07:40 PM

Yep I agree with Mark, stub tenons with bolts which go through a steel cross dowel.

I'm talking about these (http://www.horton-brasses.com/products/bedhardware/161) on the right and the spanner in the middle to tighten the bolts.

http://www.horton-brasses.com/images/products/medium/27_H72.jpg

I hand cut mortises for the nuts, which are actually square. They look to be hexagonal in the picture but they're not.

The quality and service from Horton Brasses is outstanding. A highly recommended vendor.

Harry72

20th February 2008, 08:05 PM

Yep same sorta thing, just a modern version:)

http://elraco.com.au/images/Xd1.jpghttp://elraco.com.au/images/DEMON670FB.jpghttp://elraco.com.au/images/allenkey.jpg

markharrison

20th February 2008, 10:45 PM

The thing with these is that you need to drill the holes into the rails very accurately. I would highly recommend a jig to do that.

With old fashioned bed bolts, there is a lot of forgiveness in them. My drill holes into the end grain were not perfect but all you need to do to compensate is make the mortise for the nut a little larger until you are there. Sounds crude but it makes no difference to the strength or appearance. The latter because the mortises are never seen.

Another trick: I glued the nut in with hot melt glue with the bolt in place.

thetassiebfg

20th February 2008, 11:12 PM

Thanks for the comments peoples

echnidna was the closest to getting inside my head.:2tsup:. I should have seen if the mill had any thicker stock and run the grain parallel rather than cross.

I have attempted to attach word document with a really dodgy drawing of what I am attempting. I tried downloading Sketchup several times but it stalled at a little over 30% each time:(

As to why I am doing it this way. I want to build something that looks good, is slightly different and if the bedding covers it then I still know it's there..

markharrison & Harry72 thanks for the tips on hardware

I would welcome anyone elses comments,

Cheers
Andrew

markharrison

20th February 2008, 11:34 PM

Okay, I get it now.

The sliding dovetails are not needed. You could simply glue those beads to the rails. They should never come adrift as there is a large glue area and they are not under any load.

In short, a lot of extra work with no benefit.

dazzler

21st February 2008, 09:58 AM

Hi

This is how i did mine.

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=17216&highlight=king

The rails are 19mm x 150mm and are supported by a square piece of oak that has been trenched on the router so it is a snug fit over the rail. A chamfer on the top lessons the visual impact or squaredness of the support. They are glued and screwed from underneath. There is also a pine support that runs its length and supports the slats.

cheers

Harry72

21st February 2008, 11:10 AM

Bahhhh, you ment the slat support rails!
Yep what the guys above said:D

thetassiebfg

21st February 2008, 12:18 PM

Yep its a slat support bed but the item in question is not for the slats or the supports.. It is for a decorative feature on the top and bottom of the rails(side and end boards), not the actual slat supports. That is a different issue i am quite comfortable about.

Thanks again everyone for your input ad advice.

Andrew

Ivan in Oz

21st February 2008, 01:38 PM

> I hand cut mortises for the nuts, which are actually square. They look to be hexagonal in the picture but they're not.

What?

Eh? a Six Sided Square!!!

BUT!
I do like the look.
Good one.

markharrison

24th February 2008, 10:49 AM

I think you misunderstood me. I'm quite good at inadvertently making myself misunderstood!

The photograph of the nuts makes the nuts look as though they are hexagonal. They're not. They are square, which is the form of traditional bed bolt nuts.

Sorry for the confusion.