GPW turning tools.

[JDarvall]

here....
http://gpwoodturning.yahoostore.com.au/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_by_category?category_id=1107146794

Whats the real difference between one of these and say a P&N or Sorby (or other pricey chisel) ? In terms of edge retention.

Has somebody got one, as well as a pricey one so a direct comparison can be made ?

Is it a huge difference? Does the edge on a GPW chisels fold up quickly ? eg. the edges last only say half the time of a P&N equivelent ?

Or is really just a subtle difference ? Instead of every hour having to resharpen (or whatever) you have to re-sharpen every 50mins

[Sawdust Maker]

They look a lot like the ones Northwood sells
I got a couple am not sure that the steel is as good as P&N they are also not as solid in heft in my view

[JDarvall]

ta. I'm thinking the same.

But heft I'm thinking won't bother me though. Just edge retention. If they hold up essentially as long, I figure, then why not buy them, since their so much cheaper.

Unless there are other factors I'm overlooking. ???

[ss_11000]

i saw some today at he newy wood expo. they look to be well finished:2tsup:

[funkychicken]

They're the same as the Northwood ones and are good for beginners and turning softwood. But they aren't so good for Hardwood. P+Ns probably last about 3 times longer

[rsser]

If they're the same as what Mik and Northwood sell, user reports have been favourable.

Yes, the handles are good looking but light and perhaps on the short side but you can always replace them with your own.

Maybe the steel isn't as good as more exxy brands but for hobby turners a few more trips to the grinder isn't going to be a make or break issue.

AFAIC a critical issue is the shape of the flutes on gouges. This does significantly affect the pleasure you get in turning. And I can't comment on these units not having tried them.

[rsser]

OK, extracted the digit and looked at the pics on the GPW website.

Can't say I'm overwhelmed just looking at the bowl gouge shapes. Too flat at the tip (in plan) for my tastes but there's always more than one way of skinning a cat.

Maybe a different grind would change it, or just develop your technique with these tools as you have to do with any other.

For bowl gouges IMO you have to go far to beat a Henry Taylor Superflute, both in steel quality and edge profile. Not cheap, but a single 3/8" or 1/2" will do for most applications.

[echnidna]

Well I only turn the odd spindle or table leg for furniture plus I'm a cheapskate.

I still use an elcheapo chinese set. I keep a file on the lathe and give the chisels a rub with it as they lose the razor edge.

[rsser]

Yeah, I do the same thing often. Use a diamond hone to freshen the edge. Doesn't last as long as a pass on the grinder but does less to interrupt the flow.

[funkychicken]

I still use an elcheapo chinese set. I keep a file on the lathe and give the chisels a rub with it as they lose the razor edge.


Which was every five minutes in my experience

[echnidna]

true but the file is so quick and easy.

I wouldn't try turning box or ironbark with them but redgum and jarrah turn well, but then again I wouldnt turn box/ironbark anyway

interestingly the cheap chisels seem to have reasonable steel in them, but they are not gardened and tempered.

[rsser]

Yeah, and that points to all the other variables in this game.

ie. what wood you turn, how hard you go into it, how much tool overhang you use.

Added: I turned some 10" bowls out of Brush Box. The final hollowing passes required a trip to the grinder each time. Should I blame the poor quality of the HT steel? I don't think so. This timber has a lot of silica in it which will knock the edge off anything quick smart.

[TTIT]

Yeah, and that points to all the other variables in this game.

ie. what wood you turn, how hard you go into it, how much tool overhang you use.

Added: I turned some 10" bowls out of Brush Box. The final hollowing passes required a trip to the grinder each time. Should I blame the poor quality of the HT steel? I don't think so. This timber has a lot of silica in it which will knock the edge off anything quick smart.And this leads me to my two bobs worth!!! I stay silent on this subject as a rule but I've got a mix of Hamlet, P&N, Sorby and Henry Taylor and I doubt I could measure any difference in edge holding ability on any of them - if I'm turning abrasive crappy wood they all need frequent sharpening and if I'm turning soft, woozy stuff, they all seem to go on slicing forever :shrug: Thats it! - now I'll go back to my cupboard and lock myself in :B

[Caveman]

For bowl gouges IMO you have to go far to beat a Henry Taylor Superflute, both in steel quality and edge profile. Not cheap, but a single 3/8" or 1/2" will do for most applications.
Ern, what sort of grind do you use on your 3/8 superflute?

I have a very nice 1/2" sorby that I have ground to a long 'fingernail/ellsworth' type grind - I use this about 75% of the time but am looking at something ground more square across for use mostly on the inside of bowls.

[rsser]

Hi Andy,

Not sure how to describe the grind. Fingernail-ish?

I just put it on the platform to do a 45 degree bevel and rotate the shaft without swinging the handle.

I've tried long flute-wing grinds on several gouges and found that they didn't cope very well with our hardwoods. That's partly a function of how the flute is situated/shaped within the rod of course.

To rabbit on a bit ...

The one tool I carefully keep to the Irish grind (if that's what it is) is the 5/8 Ellsworth Signature gouge. That would be one of my desert-island tool choices; steep bevel at the front for easily getting around the bowl 'corner' yet long wings. I can just barely get it set up correctly on the Sorby fingernail grind jig. Gem of a tool.

As I understand it, a straight grind would look like this: seen side-on with flute up, all the cutting edge would be at 90 degrees to the shaft.

All that said, while I keep my hand in with bowl gouges to hollow a bowl, mostly these days I use the Woodcut Proforme. Makes it all easy esp. if bending over or around is a problem.

You can get the head alone from the factory and fit it to your own shaft as long as you can do a bit of metalwork butchery: drilling, grinding, bending of the shaft and thread tapping. If you're interested see http://www.woodworkforums.com/blog.php?b=84

Hope this is of use.

[NeilS]

I've got a mix of Hamlet, P&N, Sorby and Henry Taylor and I doubt I could measure any difference in edge holding ability on any of them - if I'm turning abrasive crappy wood they all need frequent sharpening and if I'm turning soft, woozy stuff, they all seem to go on slicing forever


..........Ditto


.

[bobsreturn2003]

got some qld walnut , and sorby-p&n -record all needed touch up after short cut . got one of those hamlet gouges 4020 steel i think . what a difference cut the whole bowl and touched up once .seems much harder and sharper . and a lot dearer . but worth it for this abrasive wood , would make a honing wheel if i could cut it . its beautifull when finished , even the sandpaper wears right out . cheers bob

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I've got a mix of Hamlet, P&N, Sorby and Henry Taylor and I doubt I could measure any difference in edge holding ability on any of them

I'd go along with that - if you hadn't mentioned Sorby in the same sentence.

I bought 3 Sorby HSS gouges and not one of them lasted any better than my cheap chaiwanese HSS. I was very, very, very disappointed in them, to put a polite face on it. (I shan't express my honest opinion 'cos I couldn't be bothered looking for my soapbox.) Basically it is: old CS Sorby is fantastic but the new stuff? :q

Hamlet, P&N & HT? There are minor differences in edge holding ability, but you've got to be pretty anal to pick it :B and I think it's probably due more to the different default profiles than the steel quality.

[JDarvall]

Ta.

Sounds like I'll be just wasting my money buying the best quality stuff afterall, even if I do spindle work frequently.

[oldiephred]

As my fishing buddy says "It's not the wand , It's the magician". Possibly the asme applies to the lathe tools?:roll:

[RETIRED]

As my fishing buddy says "It's not the wand , It's the magician". Possibly the asme applies to the lathe tools?:roll:Only to a certain extent. Good tools that hold their edge for longer than half a revolution are easier to use.

[rsser]

And there are better and worse rods, lines and hooks.

I agree with Skew, though for hobby turners it's not life critical - just frustrating at times and perhaps a waste of money.

Sorby steel varies in my experience, and I won't buy another of theirs again. McJing blanks vary in their steel quality too but that doesn't bother me much since I'm just playing around making tools with their stuff.

The performance of a tool is due to a range of factors: steel quality, handle material and design, shaft and flute design, etc.

It's often hard to judge these while you're learning or if you're an occasional turner. Some makes have drawbacks though and if you don't like compromises, then search this sub-forum on the makes turners would choose to take to their desert island.

A few quality tools will do all and more that you want of them. Just ask guys which they regularly reach for off the rack. In my case it's prob. less than half of what's there but then I have tool collectors' syndrome :-

[oldiephred]

I know people who make many of their tools from such things as torsion bars, flat springs and such. This seems to take a lot of patience because if the edge is overheated during grinding, it is too soft. Overheating might be the cause of problems with "high quality" (or high priced) commercial tools. One chap I know has geared up a small nozzle to blow compressed air on the tool while grinding as well as frequently quenching it. Maybe the attention to cooling should be stressed more than the actual profile.
Just rambling here.:doh:

[TTIT]

I'm still undecided about any difference in HSS quality used by the name brands but tonight I proved that Hamlet steel is definitely much, MUCH tougher than Chinese chuck steel! - and that I am still not as good with the skew as I'd like to think I was:B - and in the process of all this I invented a rival for "Saw-Stop".

No bloodshed, bruises or broken bones but certainly stopped me day-dreaming! Skew went into "Rapid change of direction mode", clipped the edge of the dovetail and bounced into the face of the next jaw where it dug in, dragging the skew down against the toolrest, slamming it into the workpiece so deep that it stopped the lathe dead and started the belt screaming like a banshee!:o:o:o After I shoved my heart back down my throat to roughly where it used to be, I checked the edge of the skew and was gobsmacked to find not even a mark on it - could have kept skewing along without so much as a touch-up! How goods that!

"Saw-stop" - bah humbug - childs play! "Lathe-stop" goes from 1200 r.p.m to dead stop in 1 revolution which in nanoseconds is about . ....... ? hmmm .... . . .. really fast!

Crappy picture - flare off the timber so you can't see the groove where the toolrest bedded in - taken after I filed off the burr that pulled the skew down.

[ss_11000]

:rofl:

glad to hear the chisel is okay:2tsup:

[funkychicken]

No bloodshed, bruises or broken bones


Now where's the fun in that:D:doh:


I'll add my $1.50:

I have some Northwood (same as GPW) chisels and some P+N, Hamlet, Sorby chisels.

The first thing you notice when you pick up the chiseks is the weight difference, The steel and handles on the cheapies are pretty light when compared to the more expensive ones. The extra weight adds stability and gives you more control (good when you're hollowing bowls)
Also the steel in the more expensive ones is much better. My Cheapies are good for softwood but cower in a ball at the sight of aussie hardwood.
The steel in the cheapies also overheat much faster than the good quality steel..

I say buy uhhandled P+Ns and make some nice big handles for them

[BobL]

"Lathe-stop" goes from 1200 r.p.m to dead stop in 1 revolution which in nanoseconds is about . ....... ? hmmm .... . . .. really fast!


1200 rpm = 20 rps @ 0.05 m radius = 6.3 m/s velocity
Stopping in 1/2 rev or 0.025 s or 250 m/s/s = 25 g's not bad I suppose

[SawDustSniffer]

well i recon all the hss steal is the same ??? bye all ya chisels from differnt manufactures so you can tell them a part from the look of the handles , saves picking up every chisel before you finedthe one you want
, :?how come it's allwas the last one you pick up :?

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

well i recon all the hss steal is the same ???

You obviously haven't tried drilling out an engine bolt with a cheap chaiwanese HSS metal twist drill... :roll:

[wheelinround]

You obviously haven't tried drilling out an engine bolt with a cheap chaiwanese HSS metal twist drill... :roll:


Even with quality bits Skew it can be APIA the older the engine block the heat the bolt or stud as gone through in its life :doh: the worse it ets

Being watching this thead and I'll have to admit at Kiama Turner expo I bought GPW's set of 6 Midi gouges $45 and the 3 Captive Ring set also $45 from Wood-eze. Cost is my factor I am a hobbiest and funds what they are, the price was right.

Of course dream tools would be Robert Sorby, have the CD and catalouge to drool over and now with their video's on-line :D:rolleyes: I can dream some more

The Midi set have so far been :2tsup: sharp and re-sharpened once ready for next round used on Rose wood bowl I am doing. I agree the handles are crap weight I will change them but not till I am sure.

Haven't use the captive ring ones yet.

Funny tho I still pick up my old file converted into a gouge tool :2tsup: witch produces shaving like butter.

[barnsey]

I know people who make many of their tools from such things as torsion bars, flat springs and such. This seems to take a lot of patience because if the edge is overheated during grinding, it is too soft. Overheating might be the cause of problems with "high quality" (or high priced) commercial tools. One chap I know has geared up a small nozzle to blow compressed air on the tool while grinding as well as frequently quenching it. Maybe the attention to cooling should be stressed more than the actual profile.
Just rambling here.:doh:

I've got a collection of all the types herein mentioned and my selection has got to be....................

The Blue wheel on the grinder - cuts much cooler and as a result the edge lasts much longer. FWIW:q

[dextadog]

Second that

[NeilS]

What a time shift!!!

10 years later nobody is talking about blue grinding wheels anymore and P&N have stopped making their turning tools.

As for Jake Darvall, haven't seen him on any of the forums in a very long time... seems like he got banned some time back in 2015.

[rsser]

If the blue wheels had got the marketing to match the performance there'd be a whole lot more around. They're hard to find but among conventional wheels the #38 beats everything else for bulk removal. The #60 doesn't match its slow rate of clogging but is still good.

[brainstrust]

I got a round nose scraper from them the other day. Haven't used it yet but it looks nice!