Had a neighbor give me a truck load of Koa infested with termites and powder post

[dirk1609]

This isnt a joke. While selling at the local swap meet in Hawaii a local asked if I did wood work, then stated that he had a big pile of Koa that was left on his property by a friend that had passed away. He was using it for FIREWOOD! The Koa has been there awhile and most of it is infested with termites and powder post beetles. There is LOTS of great usable wood however I am afraid of bringing the termites and powder post beetles into my home with furniture made from the wood. Also my wood shop is under my house and im afraid of bringing the bugs in there as well. Any ideas of how to treat or prepare the wood?

[hcbph]

I've heard that putting the wood in a kiln and cook it a while will kill off powderpost beetles and I assume it will do the same with termites.

Paul

[DavidG]

Take the chainsaw out to the wood. Cut off the best bits.
Place inside black plastic bags, seal and leave in the sun for a few days.

Might work???

[Stuart]

Why not consult a termite eradication company - they might at least give some free advice as to how they'd do it and how much for.

[echnidna]

soak it in mineral spirits overnight , it'll kill unhatched eggs as well as insects

[dirk1609]

If the black bag in the sun idea works, that may be my best bet. Its a truck load so the mineral spirits idea would cost as much as the wood. The other two ideas are out of my price range. I tarped all the wood and set off 3 bug bombs, dont know how much that helped but it was a cheap try. After getting all the good stuff set aside im spraying it with Hi-bor, thats what hawaii treats all its lumber with.
The wood was already milled, so im slowly working out the good bits and so far Id say ots about 70%.

[DavidG]

They use the black bag technique with fly infected fruit, to kill the fly and lava before disposal so it should work for the bugs close to the surface.

Depending on the thickness of the wood, I don't know what would happen to the deep bugs???

[robutacion]

Hi dirk1609,

The black bag (large plastic rubbish bags) idea works well, with the help of a good spry can of insecticide (Mortein - surface spray, with a extendible nozzle, is my preference) and reasonably economical. I do it regularly and I perfected somehow the effectiveness of the process by doing it in the following way;
- When tightening the bag, insert in the centre of the folded bundle, a normal "straw", leaving about 3-4" out.
- With the bag now sealed, use a air compressor air blower, and the exposed end of the straw to gently inflate the bag.
- Take the air blower away, and wait a few seconds until the excessive air inside rushes out by itself. As soon as the air stopped to come out of the straw (don't touch the bag or don't force any air out of the bag), shake the can of spray well and insert the extendible nozzle into the straw, as far as it goes, and give it a continuous squeeze for 10 seconds (count to 10). As soon as you remove the spray nozzle from the straw, bent the last inch or so of the straw, and with the use of a small rubber band, a bit of tape or anything you have, rap it around the straw bended end so that no insecticide escapes from the straw.
- Leave it like that for at least 3 to 4 days. You should try not to move the bags around, as they will develop holes from the timber sharp corners, spoiling the exercise. Preferentially, do this thing, where you want the bags to stay, or where the timber is. Leaving the bags in the sun, will help also the process.
- The 3 to 4 days, should be enough to get to the deeper "buggers", as they have to breathe sometimes. If you are not so sure, and if you want to give it another spray, the only thing you need to do, apart from getting more spray cans, is to remove the rubber band or whatever you have put on the straw end, give it another "squirt", and let them be for another few days. I reckon, nothing live could survive such treatment, and if it does, just please, let me know!

Hope this helps
Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[hughie]

Dirk, Congratulations what a find............sigh too far away :-)


Alternately cut em up into usable sizes and boil the timber in a old oil drum. Its a regular method of seasoning timber anyway and boiling will kill every thing thats there.:2tsup:

When you have boiled a drum full for at least 2-3hours. Stack the timber up and cover it with sacks etc Not plastic it needs to breath leave it for about a week then place in your usual storage area out the sun and wind. Maybe give it another month if was green or not thorughly dry when you got it.

Dont worry about any discolouration as it is only on the surface or at best less than a 1/16th" deep

[Toolin Around]

First and foremost I love Hawaii.

Alcohol is not to bad but not nearly as effective in it's gasious state so I don't think it will kill all the insects if they deep in the timber.

Any pesticide has a residual effect that you most likely will breath in later on when you turn the wood.

If I were in your situation the chemical I would use is chlorine. Put couple cup fulls of the strongest chlorine bleach you can buy in the plastic bag and then leave it in the sun for a few days. The beauty of the chlorine is once you expose it to air it dissipates away and leaves no residual poisons. Chlorine is one of the most effective biocides there is. One because it will kill all living organisms. Two it turns into a gas at a relatively low temp so it will penetrate deep into the fibers of the timber if given enough time. Three gaseous chlorine is just as lethal as liquid chlorine. Fourth it leaves no traces in the fibers of the wood to kill you later if you leave it exposed to the environment for a couple days.

What ever you do thou keep your face well away from the bag opening when you open it. After you let it boil for a few days the concentration of chlorine could cause serious burns to your eyes and respiratory system.

[joe greiner]

Got a lawn mower?

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=55984&highlight=lawn+mower

See post #17.

Joe

[echnidna]

I like Toolin's idea, it will wipe out eggs deep inside the timber as well as insects.
:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

The boiling idea is sound too but theres a lot of boiling to do with a big pile of timber and it takes a lot of heat to boil 44 gallons of water

[dirk1609]

Im going with Toolin's idea with everything that will fit in a bag. I have some large contractor bags, big and thick. Will standard laundry bleach work or should I find something else? Do I just place a cup or so of bleach in a container then set that in the bag, tie up the bag and place it in the sun for 3 days?

This Koa find stunned me too. I felt like asking the guy if he wiped with hundred dollar bills too. Ill post some pics when I get a chance.

[dirk1609]

ed the bleach idea in the sealed black bag. After MANY days of heat and lots of sun the bleach is still there. I assume the inside of the bags got very hot but do you think the wood is clean now? I am afraid to build with it and then have the work distroyed by the termites.

[RufflyRustic]

hmm, after re-reading Toolin's post, it kinda sounds like the process might not have worked.

I wonder if using chlorine for swimming pools might be worth looking into??

cheers
Wendy

[dirk1609]

any more input on this? Im heading into town, 50 miles away, tomorrow. I can get other clorine there. Our maybe a bug bomb in a sealed bag? I just want to feel very ashured that the wood is bug free before I begin using it.

Thank you
Derek

[Frank&Earnest]

With the proviso that I am not an expert, having done only a little chemistry in high school more than 40 years ago.

Household/ pool bleach contains in small concentrations the salt sodium hypochlorite as much stabilised as possible, therefore it should not give out a great amount of the poisonous chlorine gas just by exposure to heat (its shelf life would be short and health considerations bad).

To produce the gas it would have to be mixed to an acid, say hydrochloric acid, also freely available. This would probably guarantee the effectiveness of the method you are trying, but I would not be mad enough to mess around with poisons without knowing what I am doing. If you really want to go down that path, make sure you do. Your call.

[mjford]

The Chlorine idea is probably the best, Pool Chlorine, or Sodium Hypochlorite
is a lot stronger than household bleach, remember when Chlorine returns to a gas the expansion rate is something like 700 times so the bags you put the wood in will blow up to the point of bursting if you are not careful. Also you will need gloves and monogoggles, as "Toolin around" says it is a very hostile gas and can burn very easily, especially the lungs, if inhaled. good luck.

Mal

[dirk1609]

I just read the below on a website. does anyone know if a black bag in the sun reaches 140 degrees?

In the case of termites, CENCAL thermal pest control technicians will isolate the infested area with airtight plastic shielding or tape up all windows and ducts where air could escape in the case of a whole structure process. Then they will pump clean hot air into the space until the ambient air temperature reaches as high as 140 degrees Farenheit. Temperatures will be held at that level for 2 hours. At that point, virtually 100% of the termites and their larvae will be dead, and the threat to the safety and longevity of your structure will be over.

[Stuart]

A sealed car does in hot sun, so it is possible.
Try it with a thermocouple giving temperature readings (one of those temp probe things)

[Toolin Around]

ed the bleach idea in the sealed black bag. After MANY days of heat and lots of sun the bleach is still there. I assume the inside of the bags got very hot but do you think the wood is clean now? I am afraid to build with it and then have the work distroyed by the termites.

Couple things maybe happening at the same time:

1) I suspect the bleach isn't getting hot enough to really increase the concentration of chlorine gas.

2) The bleach maybe a low concentration

3) you may not have enough bleach in the bag

4) there is not enough surface area for the chlorine to easily boil off in the bag

The technique for fuming oak is to put the chlorine in a tin cup and and have it sitting over a candle. Not a bad idea if you're careful. I know when I've done it that way the concetration of chlorine is bloody noxious to say the least.

You'll still have liquid in the cup even when boiling as it's mostly water in the first place. I think the average bleach available in stores is only 3% chlorine. If you can find a janitorial supply you should be able to find bleach with a concentration as high as 10%.

[Toolin Around]

With the proviso that I am not an expert, having done only a little chemistry in high school more than 40 years ago.

Household/ pool bleach contains in small concentrations the salt sodium hypochlorite as much stabilised as possible, therefore it should not give out a great amount of the poisonous chlorine gas just by exposure to heat (its shelf life would be short and health considerations bad).

To produce the gas it would have to be mixed to an acid, say hydrochloric acid, also freely available. This would probably guarantee the effectiveness of the method you are trying, but I would not be mad enough to mess around with poisons without knowing what I am doing. If you really want to go down that path, make sure you do. Your call.


Mixing bleach and an acid is a very reactive process best left alone to say the least. If you do try it you better be wearing a full face shield and covered head to toe in something you can get off real quick. And have the hose on next to you. Use a weak acid also.

[Toolin Around]

I just read the below on a website. does anyone know if a black bag in the sun reaches 140 degrees?

In the case of termites, CENCAL thermal pest control technicians will isolate the infested area with airtight plastic shielding or tape up all windows and ducts where air could escape in the case of a whole structure process. Then they will pump clean hot air into the space until the ambient air temperature reaches as high as 140 degrees Farenheit. Temperatures will be held at that level for 2 hours. At that point, virtually 100% of the termites and their larvae will be dead, and the threat to the safety and longevity of your structure will be over.

Sounds like a good idea. I think a regular green house with ventilation can exceed 100F on a sunny day easily so a plastic bag should easily reach 140 and beyond.