bamboo (or hinoki?) pegs

[yojimbo]

Hi.

I have to do some repairs on a piece of Tansu (haven't seen it yet, and so can't offer much information on it). I will have to replace the bamboo pegs (or hinoki, which I'm told is sometimes used instead) that hold the bottoms of the drawers in place.

I've mangled a few new pieces of bamboo into pegs for pieces of my own needing repair, but this is a paying job, and I pride myself on good work. (Of course, I also say "yes" to any job offer, then learn how to do what's necessary.)

Can anyone advise me? As I said, I've improvised a few, but there must be a proper way to make them, and I know nothing about the flame-tempering of them.

Counting on your collective genius to illuminate the topic with the bright light of wisdom!

Thanks so much,
yojimbo

[Sheets]

Hi Yojimbo,

Please forgive this rather useless filler of a post. I too, was once interested in bamboo pegs (even had an expert explain it to me many years ago, but I wasn't paying attention), but gave up trying. I did come across a fine Japanese substitute though called "karaziguru".
However, I'm sure you will soon find the info you are seeking from others who do, indeed, know all about wooden pegs. This time, I will pay attention.

Steve

[yojimbo]

Hi, Steve,

Thanks for the post -- useless though it might be... Ah, but you could amend it to explain what you remember of karaziguru. Was it a material? A method? A snack to enjoy while contemplating bamboo pegs?

Would love to know more -- however little it may be. Your memory might be better than you think (though mine rarely is...).

Thanks very much,
yojimbo

[Sheets]

Yojimbo, here's a hint. Say the word five times quickly. if that doesn't work, think Kung Fu movie with dubbed English voices.

(and please don't beat me with a stick)

Steve

[yojimbo]

Dear Steve,

...Okay, Sensei: got a hint as to which syllables get the emphasis? I wouldn't want to accidentally conjure up a demon. Or a big stick to -- oh, wait: you asked me not to.

Thanks (?) --
Y

[Sheets]

Apologies to anyone that may think I'm making fun of their manner of speaking. This is not my intent. Probably why I'm not a comedian either.

Anyway, what I was trying to say in a flippant and totally lost in translation way was, instead of using traditional wooden pegs (since I really don't know how, but really am interested in learning) was to substitute a well known commercial form of cyanoacrylate adhesive.

So, lets get back to the subject of bamboo or hinoki pegs (somebody save my butt here).

Steve

[yojimbo]

Steve --

I certainly wasn't offended -- can't speak for anyone else. Sorry if I gave that impression at all. (And sorry to leave you hanging and possibly thinking that: got a phone call -- da noive!)

Totally missed the adhesive ref... my bad.

And I think you're pretty darn funny.

Y

[yojimbo]

Okay, now I'm worried that what I said could have been misunderstood... I would have made the joke about any language, including English: the implication being that if you don't recite an incantation properly -- oh, heck. Nothing worse than explaining a joke you hadn't thought out well in the first place.

Anyway I also offer apologies if my comment was in any way offensive.

[Sheets]

Yojimbo (and others),

Well I was worried that my attempt at humour was quickly becoming way too not funny. My wife mentioned that some may find it somewhat insulting (making fun of the pronunciation). I didn't think you were offended, but my leading you on certainly could have and you would have been justified (and beating me with a stick). So that's why I sheepishly asked for forgiveness even if not required.
And look, we're already at eight or so replies to this thread and no useful information yet.

Anyway, I do have a momokiri, so am anxiously awaiting to learn how to make wooden nails.

Steve

[yojimbo]

Awright, Steve,

Now you're makin' me crazy. Iz it iz or iz it ain't a real thing? And if so, what?

And sorry, sorry, sorry for endless thread.

Y

[Sheets]

Yojimbo, no sweat. I'm OK if you're OK and hopefully all the others are OK too.

What are we talking about? Remember my first post and how I said to realize it was a useless filler? Well, I guess somebody added water (me) and its starting to grow of its own accord.
Anyway, it ain't real. What time is it where you are? Its 1230 am here so I better get to bed. Twelve-thirty and all's well.

G'night. Hopefully by tomorrow (or later today) someone will have an answer for us about wooden pegs.

Steve

[yojimbo]

Here's hoping. G'night.
yo

[Andy Mac]

Don't know if this will help much, but I made some a while back. Started by bandsawing up sections of seasoned bamboo, which was then split to oversize squarish lengths. Then pointed one end slightly with a whittling knife and drove them through a series of progressively smaller holes which I drilled in a thick steel plate, using a mallet. Don't drive them straight into the hole of the exact diameter, but pare them down slowly 'till you get what you require, working square into round profile. The advantage of 'driven' dowels as opposed to machined or whittled ones is they retain their fibres intact, not weakened by cutting through the length. As for more details on hardening I have no idea, seasoning bamboo is a new field to me.

Cheers.

[yojimbo]

Hi, Andy --

Thanks. Wouldn't have realized about the fibers without you. Great advice. And much appreciated.

Anyone know about fire tempering?

Thanks again,
y

[Sheets]

Yojimbo,

I did search my memory but it is very foggy. I attended a shoji making seminar with Toshio Odate quite a few years ago. It was just over the course of a weekend. Needless to say, a lot of information was passed our way (Odate san is quite a story teller as well as a master craftsman). Anyway, among his many stories was information about bamboo nails. I took many notes about shoji and Japanese tools/woodworking, but alas, I didn't take any notes about the nails (hence my not paying attention comment:doh:). What I do remember, oddly enough, is that he talked about heating the nails. What I think I remember was that they were placed over an open flame but in a ceramic bowl. I think that the heat caused a change in colour (thus some physical change), but that's about it.
I have done a search on the 'net (as I'm sure you have), but it has never produced any info about bamboo nails.
I believe that the momokiri is used to drill the hole for wood or bamboo nails but I don't know how the nails are made to match the shape of the hole.
BTW, this post is not supposed to be a useless filler (or an attempt at humour).:no:

Ever helpful,
Steve

[yojimbo]

Steve --

Thanks so much for your help. I've passed on the question of the momokiri to a friend in Japan who may be able to get further details. And I never would have thought that the tempering of the pegs wasn't done with an open flame: I assumed they were briefly fired to tighten the fibers and burn off any strays. So at least I have a foothold to start my climb toward enlightenment.:wink:

Any further thoughts gratefully received.

Thanks again,
y

[Sheets]

Yojimbo,

Don't forget that my memory is subject to..., oh yes, a certain (very certainly) level of inaccuracy. While I'm not making the story up, it is very vague, so you should be prepared for the truth to be something entirely different. We should at least hope for a more positive second opinion. I really would like to know too, after all these years.

Wasn't there a song by Gordon Lightfoot - "Steel Nail Blues"?

Steve

[yojimbo]

Was directed to this page (already run through my translation program) by a friend: it only cites the use of pegs, but it's interesting. Would be more interesting if I could be sure the translation was reliable.

http://www.worldlingo.com/wl/services/S1790.5/translation?wl_srclang=ja&wl_trglang=en&wl_rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vm-c.com%2Fyoukikou%2F04seisaku%2Ftanse%2F02.html&wl_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vm-c.com%2Fyoukikou%2F04seisaku%2Ftanse%2F03.html

A friend tells me it's momigiri (揉み錐), "kiri" being a reference to a gimlet (not the wood), and "momi" (揉み) meaning to rub, or a rubbing action; the k turns to a g for pronunciation.

He also tells me the pegs are called Takekugi (竹釘) Which makes sense, "take" being bamboo (first two characters).

So... I know a lot more... but still not what I need to.

Just thought I'd share some information. Still hopeful one of you out there has some more information.

Thanks,
yojimbo

[Sheets]

Hi Yojimbo, can you post the link to the original page as what you gave last post doesn't link to the original? (doesn't know what to translate).

Momo-giri. Yes.

You nomi, I'm a little un-guru'd.

Steve

[yojimbo]

Hi, Steve --

Sorry. It's http://www.vm-c.com/youkikou/04seisaku/tanse/02.html


Feeling a little un-guru'd myself... and happy Easter, if it applies.
yojimbo

[Sheets]

Thanks. Same to you, if it applies.

Steve

p.s., But I'm not karazi.

[yojimbo]

Hi, Steve.

Found necessary tools for brain-crushing bucks at japanesetools.com...

Still seeking recipe for savory cooking of pegs.

All help gratefully received.

And, Steve, you really did give me a starting point. Much appreciated. Hope to have the honor of returning the favor some day. And no, that's not sarcasm.

Much thanks,
yojimbo

[Sheets]

Yojimbo,

You are welcome. The purpose of this forum (and others dedicated to J tool/woodworking) is to allow the free flow of knowledge. It is a guaranteed fact that any questions asked and/or information posted will be eagerly absorbed by participants even if they don't take part in the discussions or ever use said information.
Its also common and a great side benefit that some participants, even though separated by great distances and from diverse cultures and different levels of experience, will forge/cut/hone kinships with each other. And its all great fun, eh?

So I look forward to more discussions and the pursuit of knowledge. (Its a sunny day, so I must be feeling "up" after what seems like a long, cold winter).

Take care,

Steve

[yojimbo]

Steve (or Seve, as the case may be),

I've used this forum as a source of research for a long time now -- and it's served me wonderfully. I'm not much of a joiner in this kind of thing, but I was impressed by the tenor of a lot of the conversations, and saw the generosity I generally find in the woodworking community evident on these pages. So when I had a question I couldn't find an answer to anywhere, I got over my (foolish) resistance, and signed up. Clearly, it's already paying off. And I look forward to participating much more, either seeking or offering information in the future.

So thanks for the warm and very helpful welcome.

And I'll see you 'round the Forum.

yojimbo

[Sheets]

Steve (only Seve if I spell my name wrong)

[Des.K.]

Unfortunately not adding much to the information pool, but this web page (http://www.aisf.or.jp/~jaanus/deta/t/takekugi.htm)gives a very brief rundown on the two different types of takekugi. It mentions they are roasted in an iron pot, but no other details, so it could be a case of trial and error. I had a very quick look at some of the Japanese websites, but most are either selling or referring to the kugi for hanging objects, rather than the tansu/furniture type you're interested in - no explanations on how they're made or hardened. As with a lot of traditional woodworking skills up here, it is probably a slowly dying art.

If, however, you really get into it, I've found a website selling a takekugi hole drilling machine you can buy that will enable you to drill 15 holes at the one time, with adjustable settings. And all for the reasonable price of ￥1,250,000 (about $13,000).:oo: :D

Regards
Des

[Sheets]

Des,

Thanks for the effort. Always good to have someone in Japan looking into the heart of the matter(s) and trying to nail down the answers. However, to suggest I would use a machine in lieu of my own hands, and to pay such an outrageous sum for such a machine, you peg me for a fool.:U

Another bowl full of ashes anyone?

Steve

p.s., Can you get those machines used?

[yojimbo]

Steve and Des (hi, and thanks),

Here's what I've learned, after sending two pals in Japan on a fact-finding mission.

One guy (a carpenter... ain't that a surprise) said you heat the pegs in a pan full of sand.

Another friend's father-in-law (also a -- oh, you know) said he'd never had to make the pegs himself, but had seen it done. He says you heat the pegs (no mention of sand) until the oils leach out and are clearly visible; then wipe them off (fastidiously!), as the oil will attract insects.

I figure the sand is probably to keep them from scorching. So if I heat them in a pan with sand (which might, actually, help remove the oils to an extent), then do the cleaning off, you've got yourself a pretty darn clean peg.

If you use hinoki, there's no problem, since it's naturally bug-hostile. Trouble is I only have one chunk of hinoki sent from Japan as a gift with a bunch of other stuff (staggering shipping costs), and I'm not sure I want to harvest it one peg at a time.

And Des -- Jaanus is a terrific site: I used it in my initial efforts for answers: and their listing was the only time they left me frustrated.

As for the machine (Steve -- maybe if you buy in bulk you can get a break on the price), it's not all that much more than I paid for a coring tool. Trouble is I've learned that if the Japanese make a tool for a particular task, that tool with work vastly better than the alternatives, no matter how inventive they may be.

(Gotta say, I find it frustrating that you can't see the last post while writing a reply -- so I'm sure there's something I'm forgetting...)

Thanks, guys. Much, much appreciated.

yo

[Pam]

The sand would be specifically to absorb any moisture (Arena means sand in Latin, and the sand was there to soak up blood). Interesting that wood is burned in sand to create shading for inlays.

Thanks for this discussion, very interesting and informative.

Pam

[Sheets]

Yojimbo,

You should be able to see the last posts by scrolling down below the input pane. I know I always forget things (like how to spell my name):B

Pam, Yojimbo, Des and others,

Also, about sand. I would think that maybe the nails can reach a higher temp without bursting into flame (keeps oxygen away) or maybe the heat lasts longer once the flame below is removed and allows some sort of cooking with less risk of them being overdone (as well as absorbing moisture)?
Its starting to make sense, that if the craftsperson wanted to shape the bamboo, it would be easier when the material is wet. But the heat/sand could be simply to rapidly dry the nails so they are harder and not subject to shrinking and losing their grip (not sure if bamboo is prone to shrinking as it dries as I've never used it. But it is certainly much harder when dry). All this is pure speculation on my part.

Well, all this talk of cooking bamboo has made me hungry. Yaki madake anyone?

Steve

[Des.K.]

Hi again Team

Had another chance to check a few sites, and came across this blog (http://konohamookou.cocolog-nifty.com/slowmookoulife/cat4725887/index.html). It's all in Japanese, but if you scroll down about halfway to 2006年6月23日 (23 Jun 06), then go down a couple of entries to 5月23日, he starts to describe how he uses and makes takekugi for a lamp shade he's making.

To join the pieces of cherry, he's using 6mm bamboo nails. Clicking on the photos will enlarge them, and they give a good idea of what he's doing. The key photo for this discussion is I think the one for 6月21日. It shows him heating the nails in a pan. He lightly "fries" the nails to dry and harden them, and once they change colour, he allows them to cool, then they're ready for use. Obviously the heating time would depend on the temperature of the heat source and the moisture content etc. of the bamboo. The photo is quite good, and explains the heating well. Hope this adds a bit to the collective wisdom.

Regards
Des

PS. Steve. Mate, those puns really hurt. They were like bamboo stakes driven under my fingerna... NO. STOP! :U

[Eli]

I'm quite late to the discussion, but if I understand what you're looking for, maybe bamboo barbecue skewers from the kitchen aisle of the grocery store? I've used them on the suggestion of a guy named Jerry Work (http://jerrywork.com/), and they're quite nice. I've never barbecued them before using them though.

[Pam]

Eli, many people in the US use chopsticks for pegging, not sure what wood they're made of though.

Pam

[Sheets]

Des, can you define "hurt" (groaner, offensive, malodorous, poor taste, over or under done)?:? Don't worry - I can take it.

I checked the blog you mentioned. Busy fellow!. Good photo as you say. Add enough sake and you could get hammered and nailed at the same time... I know, I know - gotta stop that.

Anyway, I've blasted off a couple of emails to sites that use bamboo (fishing rod, baskets, etc.) to see if those craftspeople are familiar with the process of making takekugi. May or may not get an answer, but if I do, I'll let us all know.

Steve

[Claw Hama]

Hi Yojimbo, I'd be emailing our local Austrailan Japanese expert Soatoz, you might have to go through his website www.japan-tools.com (http://www.japan-tools.com) I'm sure he would have some advice.

[Claw Hama]

Another thought to the heating in sand thing, they may pick up silica from the sand which may make them harder.

[yojimbo]

Hi, Pam, Des, Steve (my old pal), and Eli:

Thanks for all the helpful discussion and links.

In relative order to your posts (and I apologize in advance for the bulletin quality of my replies -- am still getting used to the tools here):

Pam -- great point about sand in the arena. And I didn't know about the inlay aspect, as I've never been called on to do that kind of work.

The non-disposable kind of chopsticks (tend to be Chinese rather than Japanese) that are not the more refined and lacquered kind would seem to be bamboo: if you look at the business end of one, you can see the cell structure.

Steve -- thanks for the tech detail about scrolling down...:doh:... But it seems it takes me to the top of the thread, whereas I want to see last few posts -- am I missing something?

Bamboo grows wild where I live (an invasive import from about a hundred and fifty years ago by some world traveler who thought it was "pretty" -- which it is, and I love it, but it has to be watched or it'll encroach and kill all the native plants). It splits and shrinks dramatically as it dries. Which last is the full extent of my observation/knowledge on that subject.

Des -- Thanks for the blog link. Took several translations to get a semi-coherent one (WordLingo, then Nifty, finally Google Trans.), but it was well worth the trouble. Thanks so much for that.

Eli -- I have used bamboo skewers when I couldn't get any dried local bamboo (only on my own pieces: wouldn't have tried it on client work); they're not bad, but there's nothing to do if the diameter is too small. And to be honest, it feels in opposition to my purist, Luddite soul. I desperately want to learn the traditional way of doing it. Obsessive? Ya think?:B

Great input all 'round. And much appreciated by this neophyte to the Forum.

Mata,
Yojimbo

[yojimbo]

Claw Hama -- so, so sorry to have missed your post before I replied to the others. Thanks so much for the effort! Looking forward to any info all of you turn up. And as more comes to me from my sources, I'll certainly share it.

You all leave me awestruck.

Thanks,
Yo

[yojimbo]

Can I call you Claw? Or would that be impudent of me?

Thanks for contacting So -- I've had dealings with him in the past (not on this forum), and find him an unfailingly rich source of information. I'm still hiding behind my handle here, and so didn't contact him directly... but I'll be straight with him and the rest of you next time (inborn paranoia and innate shyness -- grievous burdens to schlepp through life!)

Thanks,
Yo

[Des.K.]

Des, can you define "hurt" (groaner, offensive, malodorous, poor taste, over or under done)?:? Don't worry - I can take it.

Sorry Steve, it was my own poor attempt to have a go at a bit of a pun myself (bamboo stakes and fingernails). :B

Last time, I promise.:-

Des

[Sheets]

Des,

I see. You are a pundit. Now that I have put my finger on it, it hurts too.

Steve

p.s.,

So as not to make this post totally baseless (and now that the puns are out of the way), one of the places I emailed reference takekugi was here:
http://www.mcflyfishing.com/
Since they are craftspeople working with bamboo, I thought they may have the knowledge we seek or at least a direction to in which to cast our questions (we need a smiley for bad habit, eh?)
I received a reply that they would make further enquiries, so hopefully we can net some info (bhs).

Steve

[Sheets]

Received a first installment of info from Hiroshi Kono of MC Fly Fishing. He found two web pages (all in Japanese). The first (a family in Hyogo Pref. still working in the production of takekugi): http://nenrin.org/036tayori/post_74.php

and the other (which mentions a video interview with Ishizuka-san - marked 14V-15):
http://www.city.kakogawa.hyogo.jp/index.cfm/11,2231,70,359,html

I haven't had time to really dig into either yet, but now some of you can if you want.

Steve

[Sheets]

A little bit more info.
Old kiri-bako used to be made with bamboo nails as well as tansu, etc. I know there is still a thriving industry in Japan making kiri-bako, so I thought I'd try that angle (search out the box makers and see if they still use takekugi). Well, since I don't live in Japan and read Japanese, I asked my friend in Tokyo if he could ask about kiri-bako. It seems that the box makers don't use takekugi anymore, but they are used by temple builders to attach wooden shingles:
http://www1.town.bandai.fukushima.jp/kanko/enichiji/restoration_14.htm
For those who can't read Japanese (like me) my friend offered the following translation:

Takekugi

In the case of a roof exposed to direct wind and rain,the iron nail which was easy to be rusted was unsuitable.
Because,Takekugi has been used by not only thatching a roof by cedar but also all of thatching since ancient times.
When they considered a supply and the production process,
bamboo nails were overwhelmingly more imminent, and they seem to have been easy.

The bamboo nail is generally made with a procedure such as follows.

1. At first, I cut rudely performance of bamboo from 75cm to 90cm with a circular saw.

2. And then, I divide it in two, on this occasion I make gnarl the edge.
Then, I make it piece of wood from there to division into 4, division into 8 and around 1.5 cm. Because I use only outside hard part as a nail,
this time I separate the internal fleshy substance part from the main body with kitchen knife.

3. After I make it the sun airing for a while,
I divide it by a knife more finely, on this occasion I make gnarl the edge.
Then It will be like the tooth of the comb, I have a a connected one,
I sharpen them while twisting a tooth little by little.
Then it is finished in the form of a nail chamfered of.

4. The cutting is mechanized by the present.
Originally, I sharpen nail ahead with the exclusive limit level.
I cut off another one end in a right angle, and one of them is completed.

Above is the molding process of the nail,
I make it the sun airing again and I parch it with a cauldron to keep strength in it.
By doing so it, oils and fats and acetic acid, methanol called Chiku-reki included in bamboo melt and leave.
And it is finished in reddish yellow with the luster,it becomes the nail full of water resistance and flexibility.

Maybe someone else can refine the description. But it does mention the heating and the reason why.

Anyway, keep digging and see what gets unearthed.

Steve

[yojimbo]

Steve, et al:

Found another term for takekugi -- used with swords:
mekugi. Under that search term, have located following link:

http://www.shadowofleaves.com/mekugi_rods.htm

-- which has oddly underdeveloped images, but otherwise is helpful. Suggests soaking pegs in tea; says tannin will cure.

Seem to have lost full sentence capability... worried.

Later guys; going to look for pronouns.

Yo

[Sheets]

Yojimbo,

Now there you go again... drop another term and get everybody worked up. Well maybe not everybody. Well maybe nobody. But thanks for the info. Might fits somebody's requirement.

Mekugi function to hold the sword blade in the handle (tsuka). They have a slight taper to them so they will wedge in the hole (ana), but also must be removable so the tsuka can be removed. While they must absorb some shock, as the article states, the primary function is to prevent the blade from separating from the handle when the sword is swung. The majority of forces are absorbed by the tsuka itself.
From what I understand, the location of the ana in the tang (nakago) is to minimize forces at that spot, thus saving the mekugi from excessive stress that could cause it to crack or break (at worse) or loosen and fall out (at best, although, the right hand gripping the tsuka is such that the mekugi is held in place, even if loose). Periodically, the mekugi need to be replaced by new ones, because repeated removal and insertion will deform the the shape and prevent a tight fit.
So I think the major differences from takekugi is that they don't need a sharp(er) point, need to be easily removable vice more or less permanent, don't need to counteract or compensate for changes in humidity and I think, are thicker in diameter than would suit a takekugi of similar length. But with some modifications, would probably suit the role of takekugi in some instances. Depending on the cost, a bag of them, as shown on the Shadow of Leaves web site, might be cost effective for takekugi. I can't see ever needing that many as mekugi (unless you run an iai dojo or something like that).

Steve

p.s., Have found some pronouns for you Yo: (I, you, it, he, him, she, her, us, them). Will keep looking also. New thread?

[Sheets]

I got an update from Hiroshi Kono at MC Fly Fishing. Unfortunately, his partner in Japan who makes bamboo fishing poles doesn't know anything about takekugi. So seems I'm out of leads to possibly more information at the moment. Oh well. It was a fun chase for a while.

Steve

[yojimbo]

Thanks for all your efforts, Steve. I noticed a forum similar to this on bamboo... nuthin' but bamboo. I don't really want to join, but can't find any other way to ask the question there. Although from what I read, I think they wouldn't have a clue.

A friend in Japan who used to repair tansu never had to actually make the takekugi, but I ran all the possibilities past him, and his advice was to heat them in Oolong tea, since it's a natural degreaser (who knew?), then do a final heating in sand to take of the excess fluid and harden the pegs.

Let you know how it works out. Of course, after all this hunting and research, I'll probably get the piece into my workshop and find the pegs are hinoki after all...

It always gets like that when it gets that way.:wink:

I really appreciate your efforts. If I can return the favor some time, send smoke signals: East coast of U.S. I'm sure I'll see them.

Meanwhile, I'll be around the forum.

You're a peach.

Becky

[DSEL74]

Anyone thought about cutting down some bamboo chopsticks or skewers??? Could be a very cheap and easy to find option.:2tsup:

[Sheets]

I think that was mentioned somewhere way back early on in this thread (I think - its been a while).

Good experiment - try some before and then after having used them to cook with (why waste perfectly good skewers?). Some nice, sticky rice for the glue.

And, if you find you're eating too much, the kebabs would be getting shorter after cutting off some of the length next time, or the rice bowl not so deep :D

Steve

p.s., Do we really want to start this up again? (with so much else going on :rolleyes:)

[yojimbo]

Thanks, Steve.

It hasn't been an issue lately, as that job's long gone (long story, not a good ending).

But I'll certainly be checking out the chopsticks next time. I have some good bamboo from Alex, and have been saving bamboo pegs from some drawer fronts I'm installing in the workshop, so things are under control on the peg front.

As for shortened chopsticks as diet control method... hell, I'd just use my fingers at that point. :wink:

Hope all's well with you.

Becky

[Katanado]

I actually provide seasoned bamboo mekugi for Nihonto and have been for many years..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260415188101
If you like, I can offer these or even lengths of tempered and seasoned bamboo for your needs. I am most sure you would need to shape these nails yourself.
Drop me an email at [email protected] if you would like to sample some lengths of it. Prctically give it away since I dont have to do any shaping myself!!:2tsup:

[yojimbo]

Cool! Have written you. Thanks so much!

[yojimbo]

Thank you, Steve. I believe the nails should be heated in oil, but have no idea what kind is best. And the ceramic is a new detail -- thanks for that.

Having thanked you, I have to say you really ought to take better notes, as you never know when I'll need info from you. Really, Sheets, what were you thinking?!

Good to see/hear from/read you. ;-)

[Sheets]

Me? What'd I do?
But, thanks and glad to see/hear we're all still here.

Katanado, just out of curiosity, what are you thoughts on horn (tsuno) mekugi?

Steve

[Katanado]

Hey Steve,
My truest opinion is that horn is great if it is being used in a sword that won't be, such as nihonto. It adds a classy touch and I have used it before on older period swords that will be shown only. The ultimate material for swords is of course bamboo, mainly because should the peg fail during training or cutting (tamashigiri) it's strong , stringy fibers will remain intact without being completely severed, which of course will enable you to finish the cut or swing without the blade flying from the tsuka. Horn of course does not have that flexibility and once it breaks, the sword will fly and possibly at the very LEAST someone could be injured. I do like to use horn in nihonto often though..:U
-James

[Sheets]

James,

Thanks for that. I used to have swords for show only (I don't advocate using antique blades for Iaido or tameshigiri, etc. because of the risk of damage to a valuable antique, let alone someone watching) so I have used horn and "ordinary bamboo". I don't collect swords anymore, just tools (I actually use them though, so the fact that I have too many doesn't make me a collector, honest :B)
I always wanted to learn Iaido but, alas, never had anyone who could teach me on a regular basis. Thanks for sharing your knowledge of the "correct" way and material for mekugi.

BTW, any luck with the translations on your kanna? Its tedious and not always fruitful, but going through lists of kanji can sometimes yield a reading of the characters, if not their meaning (like looking up the names on sword tangs). When all else fails for me, I have a couple of Japanese friends who I will bug for a translation.

Steve

[Katanado]

Steve,
Anytime! Glad I could help.
I agree older nihonto should only be observed rather than used, although my tama blade is very old indeed and that's only because I have quite the collection and have been training for many years. I find that the love for the sword and the love for Japanese tools and techniques are hand in hand. while most of my tools are not masterfully made, it's always fun too see certain forge tecniques and observing a smith's work, especially with the "hamon" or temper lines in the blades. Of course not quite as elaborate as the swords, I still enjoy how the appear when sharpened well and with particular stones.
As far as my kanna, So got back to me (very quickly i might add!) and stated that since they are all over 50 yrs old , the ones I posted are wholesale brands and from the style of the blades feels they are Sanjyo made. He also said that sometimes when the quality of these wholesaler brands are really good, the smiths' name leaks somehow, stating that such is the case is with Etsuei, which was a wholesaler brand, and there are couple of famous smiths known to have been involved.
A few of these are incredible workers, famous or not with wonderful results so I wont part with them anytime soon but I have re-conditioned a few and will be offering some up for sale on Ebay, etc.
My real love is with nokogiri I must admit, everything from ryoba to oga . I have a few gems I have found over the years that bring this fellow nothing but smiles when used! I have recently purchased a few that are pre-1900 (Mid to late-Meiji) and after being cleaned and in need of metate, would like to find some help on finding the maker/makers of these saws. I don't think it will be that hard considering thier age as I am assuming there werent that many masters making them back then, but of course it doesnt follow the same line as the swords do with very few masters at any given time and I could be totally wrong! Im sure there were many makers of tools in comparison to swords back then, but I know just from cleaning them over these few weeks that thier are very well made saws, with wonderful hammer marks and superb tempering. We will have to see...:oo:
-James

[Sheets]

One thing I realized, is that regardless of the fame of the maker (whether sword or tool), the effort and skill that is required to successfully forge, is something to be admired, respected and, I believe, appreciated (though there is definitely a qualitative difference). I can't honestly say I can tell the difference from a "master" maker as compared to the less accomplished (or well known) based on mere observation alone (discounting any knowledge of the reputation) or through use (referring to tools). So once I sharpen my kanna and nomi and have at some wood, I'm always pleased with the performance and somewhat smug knowing I didn't sink a fortune into the purchase (again though, to be truthful, I'm always jealous of those who can and do sink fortunes into buying the famous names, even if there isn't any difference in performance - and for me, I couldn't tell anyway:no:)
I haven't wandered into the hand-made noko field yet, but am anxious to do so since I've heard many others extol the virtues of finely made noko. Cost-wise, they are again a bit out of reach for my usual budget (cheap:C). Those that are used and may be high quality, I don't know enough about and the cost of restoration would probably sink the concept for now (metate is definitely a skill not mastered alone). But, someday.
In the meantime I'm more than happy with what I have (though can't resist looking for more and still picking up bargains on ebay).

Yes, So is a great guy and an incredible source of knowledge - we are most fortunate to have a resource like him.

Steve