X2 Mini milling Drill advice needed???

[stevelisa]

Hello, Just purchased a X2 Mini Milling Drill and need advice on what type of drill bits are needed to cut through 2mm thick plastic. I need to cut out square pieces and am a newbie so any help in the right direction will be greatly apprciated.

[rodm]

Hi,
The terminology will take a while to catch up with so ask if you are unsure.
First drill bits are just for drilling holes and not milling shapes. You do use drill bits on a mill but only for drilling holes and they are held in the chuck which should have come with the X2.

What you need to cut shapes are mill bits and these come in lots of different flavours. A mill bit is held in a collet chuck - do not use your drill chuck as the spiral of the flute will draw your mill bit out of the chuck and you will end up cutting a groove in your table. For acrylic they make a single flute with a high helix angle to stop remelt. Softer materials tend to melt the swarf (chips) and this welds itself back onto the job.

As you are only just starting probably a standard 2 flute upcut spiral mill bit will get you going.

Hope that helps.

[stevelisa]

Thanks for the info Rod. Much Appreciated. Steve

[stevelisa]

I forgot to ask what collet chuck will be compatiable with the X2 drill? Probably a silly question. These are the specs:

*max. drilling capacity: 13mm
*max. end milling capacity: 13mm
*max. face milling capacity: 25mm
*max. spindle travel: 180mm
*max. table longitudinal travel: 220mm
*max. corss slide: 100mm
*spindle taper hole: MT3
*spindle rotary angle: -45° to +45°
*two-spindle speed: L/0-1100rpm, H/0-2500rpm
*table size: 400x95mm
*table slot size: 12mm
*motor: 350w/240v/1ph/50hz
*acessories includes 13mm drill chuck, chuck arbor, safe chuck cover, draw bar, etc

[rodm]

I think the best choice is an ER25 collet set. That will take you through to 16mm mill ends so it slightly exceeds the capacity of your X2. You will also need a matching collet chuck with MT3 taper.
try here to get an idea on price (http://stores.ebay.com.au/CTC-Tools)
I have brought a couple of sets of collets from this seller and they are working well but buy at your own risk.
Mcjing and Hare and Forbes sell the end mills but there are also other suppliers around.

[stevelisa]

Hello Rod, Thanks for the link. I have noticed they have the same ER25 MT3 Collet holders for a few different prices starting from $16 . Same thing with the collet sets. Is there something different between these that i am not noticing?
Cheers Steve

[rodm]

It is the same add so I can't see a difference apart from price.

There are listings for different currencies and ebay is converting it to $AUS. I would just pick the cheapest for Australia and run with that. Note that the delivery cost varies as well so choose carefully.

Look up the H&F site and you will see that the collets are $330 plus the chuck.

[stevelisa]

Is it easy to convert these to CNC? I know cncfusion have a kit minus the stepper motor controller and steppers. I was hoping to buy all parts seperate on ebay but as a newbie have still lots to learn. Syil Australia sold out and are not getting any more in so i will have to source out all parts to convert to cnc.

[rodm]

If you get the CNCfusion kit it is fairly straight forward. I converted an X2 of sorts last year but I used ballscrews and made my own mounts, etc.
I also did an X3 with the CNCFusion kit and it was easy to do.
There is a fair bit to learn so read lots and ask lots of questions.
Try here and you will see lots of conversions for the X2. (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=164)

[stevelisa]

What do you think of this kit www.lowcostcncretrofits.com (http://www.lowcostcncretrofits.com) ( probably should be called high cost)
Do you think it would be better to buy parts individually say from ebay or just buy as a kit? Is there any contollers/steppers/ power suppllies you recommend and what type/brand/specs should i look for that could save me on cost since the CNC fusion kit is going to set me back a bit already.
I was hoping to get a set up that is easy to configure if there is such a thing in CNC.
Cheers Steve

[rodm]

Hi Steve,
I used a Xylotex kit on the X2 I did. Nema23 425oz (269 with free upgrade to 425oz motors) will do the job nicely. This is a plug and play unit and $410us.
here (http://www.xylotex.com/)
You are going to have to invest time to learn how to do it all. It is not that difficult and there are enough of us around to ask questions if you get stuck.

[stevelisa]

Thanks again Rod. I am trying to learn as much as possible but due to a stuffed back have great difficulties and will need all the help i can get. Its nice to know there is this kind of generous help out there. I am on a disability pension so every cent saved is treasured. Thanks for the link.
Looking forward to my new found hobby.

Cheers Steve

[rodm]

Hi Steve,
We all want to do it as cheap as possible but without compromising the end result. You are going about it the right way so forge ahead and read as much as you can so you understand how it works.
I have to warn you that with stepper drivers do not turn on the power and connect or disconnect wires or fiddle with anything on the board. They are very robust when running but they have no tolerance for adjustments or miswiring so be careful.
Good luck with the conversion and keep us posted on your porgress.

[stevelisa]

Is there any software or program that you can simply make a sketch and then transfer the sketch say to Mach 3 ect? I have a job to do and its 80mm L x 80mm W x 2mm D plastic sheet. I have to cut out holes and other shapes in particular spots on this sheet. I want to be able to draw this out and have it stored with some program and then transfered into say mach3 .
Thanks for the link. Probably going to get the 269Oz as they are meant to be a little faster then the 425's. I am mainly going to work with soft materials.
Cheers Steve

[WillyInBris]

Hey Steve myriad of different ways to do this but it gets easier after the first time,

Normally Cad to draw and make your DXF file you can find free ones like this one http://www.progecad.com/,

Then import into a cam program to set up your toolpaths Mach3 comes with lazycam that is free I haven't tried it but its worth a try looks quite easy tutorial vids can be found at http://www.artsoftcontrols.com/Videos/Mach3%20Video%20Selections/Mach3%20Video%20Selections.html

Then import the Gcode into Mach 3 and off you go well after you have set up mach3 that is.

I don't have a mill yet but may so in the future please keep us updated pics included :D, and I am sure Rod will correct any mistakes I made.

Sean

[rodm]

Hi Sean,
You know you want one so to help you make your mind up -
Yes, you need a mill. :D
cheers,
Rod

[stevelisa]

Thanks for the info Sean. I'm probably going to stick with the same set up as Rod. Ordered a CNC fusion kit + Xylotex kit . Hopefully you dont get sick of me asking so many questions Rod. I will have a similiar set up so you could probably relate to any problems i have more easier.
What operating program are you using? I downloaded Mach3 trial and was wondering if there is a easier more basic program?

Cheers
Steve

[rodm]

Hi Steve,
No problem with questions it is far better to ask than stuff up expensive components.

Sean is right on the money with his response. What he is trying to do is to steer you down the least expensive route. In other words get you up and runnig and leaving the door open to make other software decisions once you know more about it.

Mach3 is almost a must have. There are other programs but we have all found this to be the best for lots of reason.
You will only use one screen in Mach3 (Program Run) so don't worry about the size of it. It is multi platform software so the other screens are for lathe turning, plasma cutting, etc.

There are a number of us in Australia that have been communicating by email for quite a while and we have fairly well all settled on the Vectric software for design and generating code to load into Mach3. I am a Beta tester for Vcravepro and we have another who is a Beta tester for Cut3D so we do have an association with the company. I think their Cut2D program will serve you well and there is an upgrade path to their other products if you need it. It is well priced at $US149 and is CAD/CAM.

The mechanicals are fairly straight forward for your project and if you have got the plug and play kit from Xylotex then you will not have to learn about hooking up driver boards to motors, etc. Remember my warning about not connecting or disconnecting wires while the driver board is powered and you should be fine.

Everything is probably fairly cloudy for you at the moment as there is a lot to absorb so keep reading and asking questions. If you want to get out in the shed and get your hands dirty then maybe while you wait for the kits to arrive you could fabricate a base/column support as this is a weak part in the X2 and also the X3. There are some good examples of this on the Zone so have a look there.

[WillyInBris]

Steve we all stated the same way, what do they say the only stupid question is the one that not asked.

I got to a point where I actually got rod to log into my PC to check my settings in Mach3 as I was having a few newb problems :D.

The whole cad cam controller(Mach3) thing got me a bit confused and yes the vectric software is superb thats for sure.

It looks like I will be doing an X2 or an X3 as I don't think the wife will fund a full turret but then ya never know do you :wink: .

PS Hare and Forbes have finally put up a useful webshop and gone away from the catalogue they had set up http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/.

[WillyInBris]

PS I want pics lots of pics :D

[stevelisa]

Im hoping i get all the ordered bits and pieces soon. Can't wait to put it all together. Is there any hints on puting the CNC fusion kit or Xylotex kit other than the important one Rod quoted earlier on?
In CNCfusion there is a option of pre loaded ballnuts. Are these worth getting? I got kit #4 and am not sure if these come in it and if not are worth getting.
Will gladly put pics up when i receive all the bits and pieces.
Cheers
Steve

[rodm]

Hi Steve,
If it was me I would get the pre-loaded nuts. It does take out any backlash in the axis. I did some myself but I would not recommend it at this stage. Don't take the nut off the screw unless you do so on the cardboard tube otherweise it is ball bearing everywhere. If you do need to take the nut off then do this in a tub with a towel to collet the ball bearings if there is a mishap. I did it on my table saw once and one ball bearing disappeared down the slot where the blade goes. :-
Check your PM's.

[stevelisa]

I will try to get them in the same order . Hopefully the kit i purchased hasn't been shipped yet. I have been checking out Mach 3 and solidworks out. My brain is screaming out "NO MORE". I know it will take time but know if i build this conversion i will have a better understanding of how components work.Thanks for all the help so far.
I got the PM and appreciate the help.

Cheers
Steve

[rodm]

Hi Steve,
Yeah information overload. Make it easy on yourself, you do not need to draw in 3D to work the machine. These machines are really only 2.5D as they only work from one face of the job. All my work is done in 2D plan view and then you nominate the depth of cut, feeds and speeds and the cutter profile you will be using in the CAM package (Vectric, Lazycam or what ever).
You will need the drawing in dxf format which all the drawing packages support.
If you get the Vectric software it has both CAD and CAM built in so you skip a step in the above.
I am going to make a Nema23 motor mount this week so if you like I can send you the drawing, a model of the motor mount and the gcode. You will be able to load the gcode in Mach3 and do a simulation on screen.
Yell out if this is any good to you.

[stevelisa]

I downloaded trial version of vectric cut2d and found this to be one of the most simple to use programs. I have been using corel draw to make DXF files.
Did you purchase this program online and have it emailed to you or is it available from a store?
I am also after end mills and was wondering if ebay or where the best place to purchase from?
Still waiting for all my components to arrive. I have watched a video on You tube that shows step by step installation of the fusion kit to the X2 mill.
Cheers
Steve

[rodm]

Hi Steve,
You pay and they send you a license number to open the trial version to a full version.
Yes Vectric have got the edge on the market and they don't sit on their hands. Their products are continually improved and they take user feedback seriously.
Don't go overboard on your cutters until you settle on the type of work you will be doing. Ebay is good but try Little Machine Shop in USA as you will be surprised at their pricing and shipping costs.

[stevelisa]

Thanks again Rod, Probably only going to purchase the miniature end mill set. Also found they had a great section on the basics of mill operating and tools needed. Shipping prices are not inflated too. Excellent.
Cheers
Steve

[stevelisa]

I am also after a descent milling vise. Any vises and shops that are recommended? I am after one with a rotating base and that opens a least 3-4 inches.
Cheers
Steve

[rodm]

Hi Steve,
If your vice is too big it hits the column before the cutter reaches the far side of the jaw. It is all to do with the mounting holes in the vice and your table slots.
Have a look at the photo and you will see my hybrid X2 with a 4 inch vice from here (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/4-100MM-PRECISION-SWIVEL-MILLING-MACHINE-VISE-NEW_W0QQitemZ260229600346QQihZ016QQcategoryZ105828QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262) . While the 4 inch sits well with this set up the table on that machine is much bigger than a standard X2.
These vices are good and priced well compared to retail outlets but do your own search to satisfy yourself they are value for money.

[stevelisa]

Thats a great looking set up Rod. Looks like my X2 but on steroids. Thanks for the link again. Probably one of the most important things is to buy a good quality vise.
I purchased my mill from the same place as in the link. Some stores are selling these mills for $850 +
Any places you know that sell the cable protector similiar to the ones that come standard with the mills? I know there is the split cable protector but am looking for some where i can feed the nema cables through and have a connection on either end which is glued down & cable protector is screwed in. Hopefully you make sense of what i mean.
Cheers
Steve

[rodm]

Hi Steve,
What you are after is flexible tube and gland ends. LMS have them but only in cut lengths to fit the motors and spindle on the X2. Go thorugh their spare parts list and you will see them or just click on this link - about half way down the page.
Here (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_category.php?category=6&First=F&Last=F)

Not sure if they will be long enough for you though. What I do being a cheap skate I buy flexible pond tubing from Bunnings at $10 for 3 metre lenghts and slit the ends and compress with a cable tie. A bit of sealant and then cable tie the tube to the machine or use conduit cilps where I can.

In the photo of the X2 you can see them running to the Nema motors. The tube is cooland and WD40 proof so I'm happy.

Alternatively go to an electrical supplier and they sell the proper stuff quite cheap and you can also get the glands from them as well.

That X2 hybrid is a great machine and overbuilt so it is solid as a rock. I made all the CNC conversion parts and used rolled ballscrews with double nuts. I have sold this machine but regret it everytime I use the X3. Here is a photo of the X3 and this one I did with the CNCFusion kit. Enclosure makes it much nicer to use as I do a lot of ally and it spreads everywhere if not contained. This is also running full flood coolant.

Have also attached a photo of a spindle I got from LMS that I am building a gantry CNC machine for. You might recognise it and note I have the pulley kit installed already.

[stevelisa]

Hi Rod, Found some at a local Electrical store for $12 / 10m roll. Connectors were 1.50 each. Thanks for the recommendations.
Received the Xylotex plug & Play kit today and noticed the main plug that connects to the wall/power point has a US type connection. Is it worth while cutting this and connecting a plug to suit or better off buying one. I found one similiar Here (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190215202371&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009)

Not sure if this is compatiable or if specific type is need.

Cheers
Steve

[rodm]

Hi Steve,
Good pick up on the conduit and fittings.

From what I have read there is a very negative reaction to giving out electrical advice on this forum. Anything after the power supply I am happy to help with as it is 24volt DC.

I can tell you that the American cords white is active, black is neutral and green is earth but best to check as I can't guarantee this. Also on the power supply it will be marked L which means live or active. N which is neutral. If you can't work it out from there then consult an electrician and if you do anything then do it properly - this means no spliced wire connections, etc.
Crocky (Bob) got one of these units so maybe drop him a line and see what he did. He has a long thread in the CNC section and is most helpful

I buy the bare board and build my own box so I haven't seen one of these kits from Xylotex. I am surprised that Jeff didn't send the box out with a proper cord. Make sure the power supply is set to 230 volt there is a slide switch inside the power supply.

Send me a PM if you get in trouble.

[stevelisa]

Hi Rod, Probably checking with sparky would be my best bet. The plug says its 10 amp 125v. The connection that plugs into the power supply box is marked N E L so i think i should be safe with the one listed as it is also is marked the same and rated at 10A but has the Australian adapter end. Slowly getting all my parts ready for the conversion. Hopefully will get the CNCFusion kit this week.
I have put a pic of set up so far, note my ceaser stone bench i got from a kitchen sink scrap cutout. I am currently making bracket ready to mount power supply on wall.

Cheers
Steve

[rodm]

Like the base - ideal for a mill. A fellow CNC'er has that as a table top on a gantry router. You need to bolt the mill down when you have finished the conversion.
That plug looks like an AC computer cord.

[stevelisa]

Most new homes have these tops installed in thier kitchens and usually throw out the kitchen sink cutouts. As for the cord ,Its the same looking one used on most printers / computers. There is a few on ebay for about $10. I have emailed Jeff just to confirm if the wrong cord was sent.

Cheers
Steve

[crocky]

Hi Steve,

The cord is just a computer power cord so it should be available almost anywhere.

MAKE SURE it is set to 220V, and take the lid off and make sure the heat sinks are still where they should be :) if they aren't put them where they should be, mine had come off.

[stevelisa]

Hi Bob,
I opened case up and double checked that it was switched to 220V. Heatsinks were still secured. I have purchased one of ebay for $10 which includes shipping. Stupid me i just recently threw away a printer that had this connection. Thanks for your help Bob.

Cheers
Steve

[stevelisa]

Received my CNCFusion Kit today. I managed to mount all the mounts and motors in a couple hours. I still got to get my computer all connected which will have to wait as i have to run a few cords through wall. Hopefully have it up and running in the next couple days.
I also purchased a 4 inch precision tooling vise for $110 which included delivery from the states. Similiar vises here in Australia retail at $250+
Will have some photos soon to put up.

___________
Steve

[rodm]

Hi Steve,
Good to hear you got the kit. A couple of hours to mount it all up is really moving - it takes me a couple of days.
Lots of photos please. :D

[stevelisa]

Hi Rod, I had a few weeks waiting to receive the fusion kit in which i did a lot of research and watched videos on you tube of the build process. It also helps that i am a mechanically minded person. Computers on the otherhand is my weak point but will improve with patience and more research. Thanks to you helping me out with all my questions and some very helpfull answers.
About two months ago i didn't know what a CNC mill was, now i have converted one. :2tsup:
The kit was very easy to put together and everything fits to perfection.
I used standard loctite on all screws/bolts to prevent them from rattling loose. All threaded rods were greased. I have also changed a lot of the bolts out to stainless as shown in the pictures. I had a box full of stainless bolts/washers at home that finally found a new home.

The only part that gave me a little trouble was getting the bearing washer of the original threaded rod. I found a easy way to get this off by placing rod into vice vertically making sure not to tighten vice around threaded rod.The rod should be able to move freely with no contact from vice jaws.The washer side of rod was resting on top of vice jaws. I than used a rubber mallet to hit the end of the rod. This than pushed the rod down and left the washer resting on the top of the vise jaws.

I have had to run cables through the garage wall which is double brick to service my computer. Since last picture i have enclosed my work bench. This will house my computer. Hopefully have this all connected this week.

Then the fun part begins!
__________________
Cheers
Steve

[rodm]

Top effort. :2tsup:
Great to see another CNC machine finished.

[crocky]

Ripper Steve :brava

[stevelisa]

Thanks Bob.
I got my computer connected today and have movement at all three axis.:aussie3:
Now i have to get some practice up my sleeve.
_____________
Cheers
Steve

[crocky]

That is even better :)

There is a lot to learn and that is probably where some of the fun is.

I had to send my xylotex card back yesterday, the Z-Axis failed on the card. A bit of a blow but Jeff is pretty good so I just have to wait now :)

[stevelisa]

Hi Bob,
Its great know there is good back up from xylotex. Im still trying to get all the fine details tuned in like home/limits, motor tuning etc. If you have any suggestions on set up and input can you please share them.
_______________
Cheers
Steve

[crocky]

G'day Steve,

I would be viewing the Mach 3 video's a few times and then tuning the motors etc. You can never have too much info :)

[stevelisa]

Hi Bob, Checked out the mach3 videos and had a lot of set up questions answered. Great. Thank you.
_________________
Cheers
Steve

[Blu_Rock]

Hi Steve, who did you buy your X2 from? I am thinking of buying from this supplier (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260237615968&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=016) off eBay.

[stevelisa]

Hi,
I purchased my mill from the exact link/ebay. Takes about a week to receive. From purchasing mill to conversion it has cost me about $2600
This includes a vise, end mill kit, CNCFusion conversion kit, Xylotex control/power supply.
Originally i was going to purchase a CNC ready kit from a SIEG supplier in queenbean but they are not selling these any more.

______________
Cheers
Steve

[Blu_Rock]

Steve, That's not a bad price to be up and running.

I just secured my X2 off eBay :) @ $681 and took delivery of my new lathe this afternoon :D

I am going to be busy with the toys this weekend:D:D

[Big Shed]

You mean all that new machinery for only one weekend of fun, what you going to do the weekend after?:D


Hope you enjoy the new toys!:2tsup:

[Blu_Rock]

...what you going to do the weekend after?

Get some accessories... I need keep feeding my tool fetish.:D
In reality, I will need to clean/tidy up the shed, it's a real brothel at the moment.

Steve, looking forward to seeing some work that you turn out with the mill.

[beetle]

CANT WAIT TO HERE HOW WELL your cnc x2 runs check some of the us sights

[rodm]

Hi Steve,
How is your machine going?

[stevelisa]

Hello Rod,

Machine is running great! I haven't had the chance to use it as much as i would like as i am currently building a new home. I have included a custom in house machine room into my plans where i would be spending a lot of time in the future.
I am hoping to buy or build a CNC router with at least 1m x 1m work/cutting area.
I am still having some issues with z-axis after a lot of repeated inputs it end up out a bit. Will have to adjust the steps/speed till its corrected.

[rodm]

Hi Steve,
Good to hear you are enjoying the mill. I have an Activity room we never use and there is no way SWMBO will let me use it as a machine room so you are lucky. :)

Ok the things to look for are:
If the Z axis keeps getting higher than it should be, then it is missing steps on the way down. This usually indicates that you are plunging too fast into your material. As a guide I plunge at 150mm/min into aluminum and double that into timber. Cutters just don't like to plunge as the end of a cutter does not have the clearance that the edges do. Doing ramping cuts helps.

If the Z axis is getting deeper into the material than it should be, then it is loosing steps on rapids. Reduce you rapid setting in the software or find out if it is binding on that axis.

If the Z axis is all over the place (both high and low) then it is the same as the second one above. Reuce your software rapid setting or look for binding.

Hope that helps.