Lower end tools for a novice

[jimmyjames]

Hi all, I'm a novice with no previous experience - not even woodwork at school and I'm making this up as I go. I recently made a bookcase out of particle board and timber offcuts and intend making other low cost, servicable items for around the house.

Bookcase came out well however I did have problems getting the particle board uniform, this translated to the case not being exactly square and some discrepancies. In other words it's fine but I'd like to improve.

I cut the board by setting guides on a large scrap table and adjusted my saw's depth of cut to just more than the thickness of the board therby not damaging the table too much. In this way and with much fiddling I got boards close (within mm's) to uniform. I used a power plane to take the lot to spec but inevitably they were not perfectly square. No doubt this is why they invented table saws.....

So, tablesaws and a look at the previous conversations shows several options. But as I'm really making cheap stuff out of cheap stuff I can't justify a triton or a good saw - $1000 buys a lot of pre made pine furniture. I'm thinking about a small table saw like a cheap gmc ($100) or at most a ryobi ($280) from bunnings with a couple of fold out benches to assist with handling the stock. I've read criticism of the fences but wonder how much of this is based on comparisons of bottom level tools to high end tools (my pulsar looks like garbage next to my neighbours benz but it'll still gets me around). All my tools are cheapies like ryobi and gmc and and all work as well as I need em to.

I suppose I could get the supplier (bunnings, hudsons, mr plywood) to cut to size then join and shape as needed. Are suppliers accurate? Is it costly?

Feedback would be appreciated and please keep in mind I'm not incredibly skilled, not very rich and really want stuff to do the job to make stuff that will do a job.....

P.s - this forum is an absolute goldmine for people like me. Thanks to those who take the time and effort to maintain it.

[Dusty]

Firstly, congrats on ya first effort. well done. Some don't even get that far.

My suggestion is go for the Triton Compact Saw Table. For the price it's the best value for money. It will give you the accuracy you crave, as well as whetting your appetite for more.

Plus, as you progress, you can add the extension table to it, bringing another dimension of woodwork to you.

Have fun, keep us posted.

By the way... For the record the Compact Table is about half the price of the regular Triton workcentre. I think your looking at around the $230 mark, with the fence, protractor, ect.

[DarrylF]

Mr Plywood will cut to size for you. They're as accurate as they feel like and you ask them to be. Not at all expensive - material is cheaper there than most places, and it doesn't cost much extra to cut to size. You could do a lot worse.

Consider a second hand Triton - they're always available and relatively cheap for reasonable results. A GMC saw for it should also be pretty cheap. Net result will be better than the GMC & Ryobi tables.

[Sturdee]

Congratulations on getting started and yes the better the tools the easier the job but you can get good accuracy with just a few simple cutting jigs.

As you say a $ 1000 buys a lot of premade pine furniture so my suggestions are to buy a few saw horses ( see current thread on B&D sawhorses), a good steel ruler rather than tape measure and a good square for accurate measuring.

You should also look carefully at your saw and make sure it is square and does not have a lot of arbor float and maybe get a better sawblade. Also build a jig to guide your saw on both sides of the saw and clamp that to your workpiece for accurate cuts.

BTW Bunnings will cut sheets of chipboard etc, and a few years back they used to charge a $ 1.00 a cut. Have fun woodworking and welcome to this board.

Peter.

[Arron]

On the subject of getting things cut to size - when I was in your position I built a kitchen, laundry and a number of other things from melamine coated hmr (ie white chipboard). I used to go down to Sam Issa Kitchens at Fairfield (Donald St, I think) and get them to cut everything. I would take detailed plans on A4 paper of how I wanted each sheet cut. This they did for less then most suppliers would charge for just the basic board - and it wouldnt matter how many cuts you needed - even if you wanted one sheet cut into 20 unique pieces it all cost the same. Their cutting was dead accurate too. Then I would load it all up onto my poor old sedan and drive home. Why would you ever attempt to cut your own with that type of service around ?

Secondly, there are places around where you can go and pay to use their machinery in their workshop. Hendermans in Balmain are an example. You pay $25 ph to use most machines, or $40 ph for a thicknesser. This might sound like a lot if you are going there for hours, but if you get yourself organised I expect you can get in and out fairly quickly. Their machines are very much 'top end' stuff and they have lots of space. The guy who runs it is a very pleasant and helpful fellow, though I have to admit I have never used the service (will one day).

Finally, dont forget hand tools. Woodworking is more satisfying, easier on the neighbours and safer when you use handtools. Dont fall into the habit of thinking everything must be done with a powertool. Get a good kit of handtools first.

Hope some of this helps
Arron

[jimmyjames]

Back again. Read all your posts, thanks very much for replying. Went down to gasweld today and had a look at the ryobi side by side with the triton. No question the triton is the better of the two. It's a stand alone unit, fence and sand very solid. The ryobis fence clamps on only one side relying on a rail to hold it at the other end. This may work but is definately more fiddly.

On the down side the triton is without a saw, the shop guy said you should get a good brand saw with a solid steal 'foot', apparently cheap saws have pressed metal 'feet' and they twist under load. The result is an inconsistant cut which is what i'm trying to avoid with all this. That makes the total cost somewhere around $550/$600 - that's money I havn't got.

I do have a ryobi c/saw but I'm not confident in the geometry of the blade to foot and there's no way of adjusting that. So I'm starting to think of the ryobi. Has anyone out there had a good experience with this tool?

[Zed]

theres no reason you shouldnt be able to get an accurate cut with your ryobi. if you get a length of straight timber or aluminium (or whatever) and clamp it to your intended to be cut bit of particle board at the right distance you can use it as a fence on top of your sawhorses. of course you need an accurate ruler and a few test cuts to get it right but thats no biggie

a couple of cheapie g-clamps from the $2 shop, a set of saw horses from bunnings for $30, a 1m steel rule from just about anywhere and your ryobi saw is all you need to buy - I bet you can scrounge a straight edge from just about anywhere.

welcome to the club, when you get around to getting into it may I suggest you buy the "Loverly" Makita stuff. leave that triton stuff for the girls (Ok boys - let 'er rip heres me chin....) :D :D :D :D

[ozwinner]

I didnt like that awful colour of my Triton stuff, so I painted it all Powder Poof Pink to match my finger nails.

Cheers, Allana :eek:

[TOMARTOM]

Get a circular saw, a 71/4 will be fine for starters and get a straight piece of Alluminium from a hardware or the like. with the change from $100, you could get a fine blade (for sheet goods), won't be carbide tipped but will do fine just the same.depending on the arbor size of the saw you could use a brand called Vermont American, and I purchased one a couple of years ago for about $3.00 from the woodworking show, and also a couple of saw stands will be needed.

[jimmyjames]

Hey all,

I used to know a guy nicknamed zed, he'd be in his thirties and used to live near bankstown. If that's you drop me a line.

Anyway, did the whole clamp a straight edge as a fence thing and made a jig for cross cutting and your're right. You'll get pieces within millimeters of each other. The problem is that when the pieces are assembled the inconsistencies add up and show at the end. My first attempt at woodwork, the bookcase showed this. It was fine, far better than the target flat pack we were first looking at ($80 for vaneer and mdf and none to solid) but there's lots of room for improvment.

[Zed]

close but no cigar, im in my thirties but never lived near bankstown. Blacktown yes... I never knew a jimmy james either...

Zed is the psudonym (?) I use on this forum because my real name is one of those woggy ones that most people spell and pronounce wrong. I swore I would never tell my childhood nickname to anyone - If my wife cant get it out of me you got buckleys dude...

if you want to shave off those mm that "add up" get a hand planer too. "Record" brand is the cheapest - if you tune it it will be ok. to tune look up the search forum for "tuning planes" - a plethora of posts is to be had....

[Geoff Allen]

Welcome aboard Jimjams,

If you can join a woodworking club. Its usually a lot cheaper to practise on equipment/get a feel for what you like doing/ meet some like minded souls/have all the equipment you need etc. Most clubs are welcoming although all clubs seem to have some a few members who we would all prefer to be in another club, but thats life so you don't take them to seriously.
My club is no help to you in Melbourne but for $75. per year it represents good value for about 100 members.

regards
Geoff

[bsrlee]

First, get down to the library & look at the woodworking section. You should find a heap of books with title like '500 hints for Woodworkers" - borrow & read them - there are usually heaps of ideas for beginners in there, specially ideas on how do things with a basic set of tools. You can read them at night when the neighbours complain about the noise
;-)

For cutting straight lines with a circular saw, there is a simple jig: take a piece of ply (or whatever) and a piece of 20x45 that is straight. Stick/screw the 20x45 to the ply a bit further from the edge than the distance from the saw blade to the edge of the base under the motor. Use the saw to trim the edge - you now have a combination straight-edge and edge guage. You can make it as long as you need - mine is 1.2m (4ft). I just clamp it on with 2 cheap screw clamps - the type made of bent steel strap are best, they don't hit the motor casing.

You just measure up the cut with a tape, check for square with a big roofing square (<$15 at KMart last time I looked) and clamp the board in position, then saw away! If you are cunning, the other side of the straight edge can be used for another tool such as a router and standard bit for routing shelf grooves (dadoes).

If you are using an old table to cut on, find a few pieces of styrofoam the same thickness and use them to hold the board off the table - the board wont collapse on the cut if you use enough bits. Check scrap bins at shopping centres & wharehouses as the stuff is used in packing.

Mr Plywood and some timber yards will cut sheetgoods (MDF, ply) for a fee - I found timberyards to be cheapest - but Bunnings will only cut timber to rough length up to 300mm(12in) wide, not sheetgoods.

[jimmyjames]

bsrlee thanks for the styrofoam tip, hadn't thought of that before. I had already made up a short straight cut jig as you suggested but found it was not consistant over the full lenght of the cut. I blamed the saw accuracy thinking the blade was rotating out of square but reconsidering I think the jig was not thick enough and it flexed - it was only 9mm mdf on top of masonite.

After reading all the kind responses I'm going to forget the table saw for a while and do the following.

Get a book from the library.
Get some more hand tools. Chisels, more clamps, large square and ruler and some aluminium straight edge cut to various sizes.
Make another straight cut jig and a dadoe router jig.
Get a more accurate saw blade for my c/saw and drop saw (some research to be done here).
Get working on my next project - enclosed cd shelves attatched to wall and couple of storage cases for my toy sons toy boxes.

How long has this make your own cheap good quality furniture thing been going on!! :)

[dale]

Originally posted by Zed

welcome to the club, when you get around to getting into it may I suggest you buy the "Loverly" Makita stuff

Love my Makita drop saw, not so pleased with my Makita table saw. Relied on reputation more than doing a good look around, and ended up regretting it.