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Gingermick
30th April 2008, 07:06 PM
I've had rather sore shoulders lately and have diagnosed myself :Dwith tendonitis in or about my rotator cuffs. (in both arms)(I also have three kids and no health insurance and physio's cost too much)
Was just wondering if anyone would be ale to help me with some ideas / exercises to make it go away. It's interfering with my training and sleep and that's sheeeeting me off.

Incoming!
30th April 2008, 07:09 PM
Wing chun (assume that is your art)? Maybe too much sticky hands practice. It's murder on the shoulders. Get thee to an acupuncturist!

echnidna
30th April 2008, 07:25 PM
rub Voltarin ointment into it.

I had a painful elbow for years

After about 15 years it was diagnosed correctly as angina
I don't get chest pains so figure that out

Gingermick
30th April 2008, 08:18 PM
Wing chun (assume that is your art)

The signature that gave it away? But it was getting sore before I was doing lots of chi sao (only this week), but half an hour of punching drills three times a week and trying to launch myself off the ground doing push ups, and sleeping on my arm probably didnae help either.

Voltarin, will go get some now thanks, cheaper than accupuncturist.

kekemo
30th April 2008, 08:32 PM
Well....just wanted to tell you....my darling hubby's shoulders started to hurt & play up....put up with it for about three years, he thought it was the golf...work...baseball etc ....voltaren....accupunture....eventually shoulder re-construction.....before his six weeks check up.....he started feeling pretty crook...so back to Dr....8 massive brain tumors....stage four....already....Dr's say he would have had them for about 3 years because no one check....we didn't know......DO YOURSELF A FAVOUR....get it checked! Thoroughly....to many brain tumors start....first signs in shoulders!!!!!!!

Gingermick
30th April 2008, 09:06 PM
Well I had oodles of CAT scans (and brain surgery) in mid 2001, and no tumors and I haven't diagnosed myself with brain tumors for nearly 8 years, until now, bugger

yjnb
30th April 2008, 10:02 PM
Rather than muck around, go and see a physio. A compliant GP will be able to assess whether you are eligible for the Medicare scheme http://www.health.gov.au/epc. otherwise, try to get a referral (from same GP) to the local hospital physio, however you do get what you pay for..........

James
Vested interest declared

watson
30th April 2008, 10:18 PM
G'day Mick,
There's been some good advice in this thread.
The running theme seems to be - Go Get Help!!!
Apart from that....I should remind everybody of the forum rule.....:NO DIAGNOSTICS - That's best left to the experts"
Trying not to be a party pooper here, but it sounds like you may need to get some professional help.
Then again it could be just an "oowie"
Let us know how you go.
Noel

tea lady
1st May 2008, 12:10 AM
:wts: Anything that keeps you from sleep needs attention. And if it has been there for a while. Off to the doc with you. No excuses. Your family needs you well.

ubeaut
1st May 2008, 12:13 AM
Good advice Noel.

Get it checked out Mick. Better to safe than sorry. If it's nothing more than strain from over doing it with the training then go see a manipulative or sports therapist. Most will give you a set price and a money back guarantee if they don't fix.

I've been to 2 over the years and both had a money back guarantee. Both were brilliant and both were pretty inexpensive for what they did. From memory $50 for 3 visits last time and not a problem since. That was about 10 years ago and it was the best money I ever spent.

But first make sure it isn't a heart of other major problem.

Cheers - Neil

Gingermick
1st May 2008, 07:58 AM
there's a fella a training that is a physio, but I haven't been able to get his card yet.
Thanks for the advice

The Bleeder
1st May 2008, 09:21 AM
Mick,

Get yourself to the hospital. Complain of shoulder and chest pains (i know its a small lie). They will check you out. (Medicare covers it)

Ok you have to take whoever is there but at least you get checked out.

Steve

woodbe
1st May 2008, 09:23 AM
Mick,

+1 for getting pro advice.

I had a shoulder problem a few years back, diagnosed as 'Frozen Shoulder' It's a rotator cuff restriction and it got so painful I couldn't easily change gears in the manual car. Anyone bumping my arm the wrong way brought me to the edge of tears it was so painful. Couldn't raise my arm past horizontal. Ouch.

Anyway, the good news is it got better, but took months.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frozen_shoulder

woodbe.

BobL
1st May 2008, 10:13 AM
The other common shoulder problem no one has mentioned yet is bursitis, which apparently very common in the community and a lot of older people confuse it with arthritis. Bursitis the inflammation of the jelly/fluid filled sack in between the major joints and is also common on the hip. In the shoulder it manifests itself by pain when putting on a shirt, or lifting your arm out to the side above your shoulder. To compensate for the pain you subconsciously start using other muscles not designed to do the work and so you end up with pains in your arm, can't sleep, get more tired, and you start a spiral into that all day tired feeling

I've had a pain in my left shoulder since mid 2006 when I started doing more darkside stuff and hand carving/sanding. After trying all manner of self administered oinkments and pill type remedies, I went and had it checked out and the doc said let's go first with an xray and an ultrasound. The ultrasound confirmed it was busritis and the doc then recommended some of the same oinkments and pills which were useless so he then recommended physio which didn't seem to do much. Finally I went for the cortisone needle and a month or two later I noticed it was subsiding because I was able to sleep again. I'm not sure if the needle did it or not.

Now I have it in the right shoulder!!!!

artme
1st May 2008, 10:15 AM
Check out your heart Mick.
Read my post on heart problems.
See what echidna has said.
Angina does not always manifest itself as chest pain.

Angina can cause pain in the chest, neck, shoulders, jaw, back, and, from echidna's experience, the elbow.

It may be nothing to do with your heart, but at least if that is ruled out it is a worry you don't have to contend wirh.

Gingermick
1st May 2008, 01:40 PM
We have jsut moved offica and my new desk seems a little different.

wheelinround
1st May 2008, 01:48 PM
A common problem these days with the right shoulder mostly due to constant use of a mouse short sharp movements little and no stretching.

Amazing what a few moments of desk exercises will do to relieve this or even a few days not using the mouse.

Gingermick
1st May 2008, 02:02 PM
been doing this job for about 6 years, and I didn't pay attention to how I used to sit. Talk to physio tonight, see if I can get mates rates, though, would have to become his mate first:oo:

petersemple
1st May 2008, 02:46 PM
These days lots of companies will actually pay for a professional workstation assessment and set up for computer bound employees. It can make a huge difference. If not, then you will probably find info on correct set ups on the net - not as good as a good pro assessment but better than nothing.

Peter

wheelinround
1st May 2008, 03:05 PM
These days lots of companies will actually pay for a professional workstation assessment and set up for computer bound employees. It can make a huge difference. If not, then you will probably find info on correct set ups on the net - not as good as a good pro assessment but better than nothing.

Peter


Daughter went through that Peter worked for her wrists only opposition were the IT dept guys who when the new mouse arrived was like a game control

Why because they wouldn't be able to control the mouse. The owner threatend them with legal action on daughters behalf the injury manger said he'd back him.

BobL
1st May 2008, 03:36 PM
Check out your heart Mick.
Read my post on heart problems.
See what echidna has said.
Angina does not always manifest itself as chest pain.

Angina can cause pain in the chest, neck, shoulders, jaw, back, and, from echidna's experience, the elbow.

It may be nothing to do with your heart, but at least if that is ruled out it is a worry you don't have to contend wirh.

That's the first thing the doc did when I presented!

Gingermick
1st May 2008, 04:34 PM
but at least if that is ruled out it is a worry you don't have to contend wirh.

It was a worry I wasn't having to contend with, alongside brain tumors, until now. :C
I've been trying to support my arms all day (forearms on desk) and it's eased somewhat.

artme
1st May 2008, 09:50 PM
Have you had your heart checked yet????

Harry72
1st May 2008, 11:04 PM
Strength training is about the best prevention for these type injuries, but you need to heal before you can start.
The only real way to heal is rest and rehab set out buy someone in the know, get it wrong and you could end up paying for it long term.

ian
2nd May 2008, 01:13 AM
Don't stuff arround

my wife had a similar problem
got so bad she couldn't lift her right arm (sideways to the body) above about waist height
was diagnosed late last year with a condition known as "frozen shoulder"
without major surgery it could take upto 3 years of regular physio, accupuncture and exercise to correct
full imersion in a very hot bath does speed recovery — a trip to Japan was cheaper than surgery


ian

Gingermick
2nd May 2008, 10:34 AM
MIL had frozen shoulder and saw physio in Sarina (Old QLD prop Martin Bella) and he told her that it wasn't fixable. She just had to wait and have massages. Marty Bella must be getting on a bit but I still wouldn't argue with him:oo:
Test for the day, work with arms supported on desk at elbow, not wrist as they have been for a month.
But I am in the process of getting this physio's card, and if he's no good, we'll beat him up at training :D

Rattrap
2nd May 2008, 11:54 AM
MIL had frozen shoulder and saw physio in Sarina (Old QLD prop Martin Bella) and he told her that it wasn't fixable. She just had to wait and have massages.
Don't beleive a word of it.
My missus has frozen shoulder right now. It normally takes on average 18mths to recover from frozen shoulder, my wife is 3/4 healed after just 8mths. I beleive the reason is that we got onto it early.
She received acupuncturist & ostiopathic treatments every month. but u need to find an acupuncturist who really know frozen shoulder. She also get cupping treatments from the acupunturist. The treatment hurts like a bastard because instead of the needles just going in a few mm they need to go right into the shoulder joint. My missus said she wanted to scream while having it done but within 24hrs of treatments she got an immeadate relief. Frozen shoulder can also easily flare up in your good shoulder because naturally people tend to favor the good shoulder.
Her shoulder problem was caused by too much computer useage. U really need to try to identify the cause (which is hard in some cases) & try to either change the pattern or take more breaks & streatching exercises before it gets too bad.
Frozen shoulder typically goes thru 3 stages, the freezing up stage, the frozen stage & finally the freeing up stage. the first stage is by far the most painful. Any bump to the shoulder or moving the arm round much at all hurts like fire in the shoulder. but once the shoulder freezes up fully 'most' of the pain goes away. Its actual medical name is adheasive encaptulitus ( or however its spelt) But in laymans terms, from what i've been able to grasp, the the soft tissue in the shoulder joint develops these 'encapulations' that glue the soft tissue & tendons etc together. when u move the arm & shoulder it actually causes the soft tissue to tear - that y it hurts so bad yet imobilizing the arm is the worst thing u can do. u gotta keep it moving but within the minimal pain threshold. The old saying 'move it till it hurts then u know its doing good is completly wrong in this case. move it so that it hurts as little as possible. Remember when it hurts bad is when you're tearing soft tissue & when u tear soft tissue u produce more bad blood in the joint which makes it worse.
Quartizone injections are very iffy & definetaly not for a local doctor to administer. They can give relief for a few weeks to a mth if given while guiding needle by ultrasound.
Don't mess round with frozen shoulder & try to save a few $$ by skimping on treatments. We're only on a disability pension (wife has a brain injury) & damn it hurt like hell financially getting 2 treatments a month but it really was worth it in the long run.
Early diagnosis is the key.
:2tsup:

Incoming!
2nd May 2008, 12:35 PM
Don't beleive a word of it.
my wife is 3/4 healed after just 8mths. I beleive the reason is that we got onto it early.

She received acupuncturist & ostiopathic treatments every month. but u need to find an acupuncturist who really know frozen shoulder. :2tsup:

IF it's frozen shoulder, then yes, acupuncture will fix it within three to four treatments. But like Rattrap said, you need an acupuncturist who really knows their stuff. True acupuncture does hurt, unlike some who insert the needles barely under the skin and don't manipulate the needle. Three or four treatments over a week should do the trick. You can quite often find acupuncture colleges that run free student clinics staffed by their senior students. The students can be a bit cosmic, but the instructors are generally some of the best in Australia.

BUT, because of the real risk that it may be something a bit nastier, get it properly diagnosed first and then choose your treatment options. Can't stress that enough. Good luck.

woodbe
2nd May 2008, 12:56 PM
Just a data point on Frozen Shoulder treatment.

Once it got painful, I took it to a sports medicine doctor, as I do a fair bit of exercise and was concerned that it was caused by overuse or something like that. We went through the exam, had xrays and a live ultrasound investigation where the joint and tendons were observed while the joint was put through it's motions. Quite interesting to watch the tendons sliding around, and 'jagging' if a bit painful.

Treatment consisted of mild extension exercises, no physio or acupuncture for 4 weeks. After that, a test was carried out using local anaesthetic into the joint which resulted in immediate relief of the pain and a much greater range of movement.

The shoulder resolved with no further treatment. All they need is time and a bit of movement. Life is the best physio. I regained 90% of the range of movement in about 3 months.

Go to the doc and get the diagnosis.

woodbe.

Rattrap
2nd May 2008, 07:23 PM
a visit to the doc for a proper diag is the very first step. that'll teach me to make sure i read every post instead of skimming. lol

Gingermick
2nd May 2008, 11:48 PM
Don't beleive a word of it.

Punctuated the sentence a little earlier than I had intended. He said that he couldn't fix it. That it would just take time and heal itself. My Doctor said, just take some panadol. :oo:
But it's very similar to ankle pain that I get that is caused by walking improperly. I saw video of me walking with my feet pointed outwards, and could see the achilles tendon twisted. This caused pain and when I walked properly, it went away.
Incoming, you didn't answer my question, what led you to assume wing chun?

Incoming!
3rd May 2008, 12:36 AM
Incoming, you didn't answer my question, what led you to assume wing chun?

Your signature and the nature of your injury. It was either Wing Chun or Southern Praying Mantis (tong long) Both styles have a similar injury pattern from the "burning" of the ligaments in the shoulder due to Tui Shao training. (When overdone) However, Tong Long in particular, segues into Tai Chi at the upper levels (not sure about Wing Chun) which tends to have the effect of softening the injury. Wing Chun by default.

Am I wrong?

Gingermick
3rd May 2008, 08:02 PM
No, quite right. I'll have to get accupunctured I think, as there is no history of heart probs in my family and I'm youngish (too old for the young persons forum at work though)
I think posture and desk set-up changes have helped, in conjunction with this herbal remedy that si gung makes.

Chris Parks
5th May 2008, 10:02 PM
Get diagnosed by an expert who doesn't guess and yes, you are guessing. I have torn both supaspanatus (sp?) tendons and have had one repaired, a very painful exercise during the recovery period. it is necessary to have complete rest and identify the cause and then devise how to avoid the aggravation to the shoulder. Most doctors if they are serious tend to use MRI's to see what is going on. I put up with mine for about seven years before it defeated me and I had to have the op.

prozac
6th May 2008, 01:11 AM
Like Mini I tore my supraspinatus. Don't know about painful during recovery period (which is a long arduous afair) but the symptoms were pretty awful. I kept working for a month and ended up tearing the other one as well only not nearly as bad.

Had the first one operated on, the left side, but am reluctant to do the right as whilst it has settled down bar for some restriction in movement I have no idea how I would go about wiping my bum.

Get a proper diagnosis at a bulk billing medical centre if things are tight!

prozac

Gingermick
13th May 2008, 09:14 PM
Had acupuncture and probably needed it again but am a wuss:-
I saw the physio and after some movements he said tendonitis in the left shoulder and the right shoulder pain just a result of AC joint being fused in the wrong spot after accident. (didn't notice as I was sedated for nearly three weeks)
Shoulder exercises and some strapping tape (to support joint) are helping a lot already:)