Hand planes

[coastie]

I am thinking of adding a couple of planes to my startup collection.
Any advice in this area would be helpful,tried scouring markets, second hand shops but at the moment there is very little available.
Would love Lee Nielsen but a bit out of my price range,was thinking more along lines of Stanley or Record.
Any sugestions please,mainly to be used for furniture making .
Derek Cohen where are you??

[DarrylF]

Kinda in the same position myself. I have a Stanley 12-090 low angle block plane with adjustable mouth etc - very nice. $118 at Bunnies. It's great for endgrain, edges on boxes, cleaning up joints etc. I like it a lot, especially now I've tuned it up.
http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=PLANES&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=12-960&SDesc=Bailey%26%23174%3B+Low+Angle+Block+Plane

I also have a 12-220 block plane. A little heaver than the 090, and no adjustable mouth. Got it first - should have bought the 090 first. Was on special at the time at Bunnies for $72 I think.
http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=PLANES&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=12-220&SDesc=Block+Plane

I've been shopping for a #3 or #4 lately. I dislike the whole idea of the plastic tote on the current Stanley & Record models. I've seen a few older models with wood tote in varying condition at my local Sunday markets around the $35-45 mark. Ebay though seems to have a regular supply in good condition, and they seem to go for around $45 - less than half the price of a new one and better quality.

http://listings.ebay.com.au/aw/listings/list/category4123/index.html

I did pick up a Stanley 151 spokeshave at the local markets for $18 the other weekend - bargain. Close to perfect condition.

[TOMARTOM]

My old block plane is not used much anymore, as the Lie-Neilsen has taken it's place, the old one is okay for starters(better than a kick in the pants), all I know is that the plane is made in West Germany, although it is not a Kunz.
I would gladly give you this one, if it would give you good service until you can buy something else, and pass it on to another person who is just starting out in woodworking. Postage would be appreciated if reimbursed after you recieve the plane.

regards
Tony

email me your address details

[email protected]

[Paul O'H. Ingersoll Canad]

If you have lots of $$ check out these planes. I have seen them at a wood show , planing the toughest wood against the grain. Planes (http://www.shepherdtool.com/)

I would like to have one but out of my price range.
paul

[derekcohen]

Coastie

The following are some of the planes I own, the less esoteric ones!

Why so many? Why not - they are not expensive to collect when done over time and restored by one self. They are definitely fun and functional to use. And they DO all get used.

Guidelines for those starting out:

1. Old Stanley planes, preferably those pre-1930 are best, but those pre-WWII are excellent, around the 1950s are still very good. The quality deteriorated significantly after 1960.

2. There are specialist plane makers returning to the woodworking scene again as the demand for fine hand tools has been increasing over the past 5 or so years. There is definitely a trend developing. Look at Lie Nielsen, Clifton and HNT Gordon for quality new planes available in Oz.

3. You basically should have a jointer (#6 or 7), a jack plane (#5 or 5 1/2), a smoother (#3 or 4), and a low angle block plane (#60 1/2).

4. These can be upgraded with a better blade from Hock or Lie Nielsen (not Clifton, since their blades will be too thick to fit).

5. As you slip down the Slippery Slope you will discover rabbet planes, shoulder planes, and the like.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[derekcohen]

Planes from rear and L to R:

HNT Gordon Try Plane
Mujingfang: Mini Smoother … Large Smoother/Jack Plane
HNT Gordon Large Smoother
Lie Nielsen Bronze Low Angle Block Plane … Stanley #18 Knuckle Joint Block Plane
Stanley #90 Bullnose … Stanley #65 Knuckle Joint Block Plane
Stanley #93 Shoulder Plane ... HNT Gordon ¾” Shoulder Plane
Stanley Router Planes: #71 … #271

[derekcohen]

Planes from rear and L to R:

Stanley #45 Combination Plane
Record #20 Compass Plane
Stanley: #4 ½ Smoother … Bedrock #604 Smoother
Stanley Scraping Planes: #112 … #80
Stanley #66 Beader
Stanley Rabbet Planes: #140 Skewed Block Plane … #79 Side Rabbet Plane

[derekcohen]

From rear:

All Stanley planes.

#4 ½ Smoother
#7 Jointer
#5 ½ Jack
#4 Smoother
#3 Smoother

[coastie]

Derek:
Chasing an old Stanley on e bay at the moment looks very rough but in original condition,may need your help in restoring if I'm lucky enough.
Lee Neilsen looks the bees knees but $450+ for a plane?

[Ben from Vic.]

Lie-Neilsen planes are on sale at Wood Craft in the USA, with the AUD doing so well it will cost you between $340-380 AUD for a No. 4 including P&H !!!
Depending on how long you want to wait.

http://shop.woodcraft.com/Woodcraft/product_family.asp?family%5Fid=3809&gift=False&0=dept%2Easp%2Cdept%5Fid%3D10000%26Tree%3D%2CDepartments&1=dept%2Easp%2Cdept%5Fid%3D1037%26menu%5Fid%3D%26Tree%3D0%2CPlanes%20%26%20Spokeshaves&2=dept%2Easp%2Cdept%5Fid%3D2115%26menu%5Fid%3D%26Tree%3D1%2CBench%20Planes&Gift=False&mscssid=01818B69A2D014A6E896712CF927ABF7

I've had my eye on a No.7 and it wil cost me about $500 to my door!

A bit cheaper than $1000 from MIK.

Now, if only I could talk my self into parting with the cash!!

Ben :D

[derekcohen]

Ben

Don't buy the LN #7 - get the HNT Gordon Try Plane instead!!!

I have a Stanley #7, very well tuned, with a Japanese laminated blade. It is a very good plane. But it is not a patch on the HNT Gordon for cutting FLAT. It is lighter and more comfortable to use. Very importantly, it has a blade at 60 degrees, which makes it more suitable for Aussie hardwoods.


Coastie

Yes, Lie Nielsen will cost $450 or more. And this is a fair price for the quality of their tools. Keep in mind that ALL handplanes should be regarded as if they were kits, that is, they all require some tuning (filing and sanding to flatten both the plane and the blade). Just that some need more than others. The new Stanleys and Records require a LOT of tuning (hours and hours of it). What you are paying for is the degree of readiness to use out of the box. The LN planes require very little work (mostly just a honing of the blade). I have old Stanley planes that are easily the equal of LN (and Clifton) - or better them - but the amount of work that went into them is only reasonable IF you have a passion to do it. Most of my planes have aftermarket blades and chipbreakers. The cost of the LN planes must have factored into it the value that you put on your time.

Just yell out when you want help tuning those eBay Stanleys. There are several on this Forum who have expert experience in this regard.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[GC]

Anyone thought of garage sales?

GC

[Rocker]

Ben,

Have you considered the Veritas #6 from Lee Valley for US$219? I have the Veritas #5 1/4, and love it. You might have to pay duty and GST on the LN #7, but you will probably sneak in under their radar with the Veritas.

Rocker

[Iain]

The flea market at Toukley had a lot of old hand tools when I was last up there.

[Driver]

Here's another place to buy old planes (and other tools):-

http://www.workingtools.com.au/index.php

I've just ordered a Stanley #71 router plane from them - at less than half the cost of a new one. The old one has wooden handles - not the crappy plastic ones that are fitted to new models.

Just a cautionary note - in case it isn't obvious from the photos of Derek's collection - hand planes are amongst the most addictive tools you can possess. Once you start you will want to own more of them. Be warned! (Incidentally, I've seen Derek's workshop - those photos show only a part of his collection - he has more - including some really interesting planes that he has made himself!).

Time to get back to making shavings . . .

Col

[Driver]

On the subject of crappy plastic handles: what on earth was in the minds of the people who decided it was a good idea to substitute plastic for wooden handles on tools designed to be used by woodworkers?

OK - I know the answer: the blow-moulded plastic knobs cost less. But hells bells! Cost is not the only criterion for success. And we're talking about woodworking tools, for heavens sake!:rolleyes:

OK - end of Sunday morning rant.:mad: Give me a break, fellas. I'm into the second week without a cigarette. Jeez, it's hard! But I'm determined to kick it this time.

Anyway - it would be interesting to know how many people on the BB have bought new planes and replaced the plastic handles with wooden ones (I've done this with two new Stanleys: a #4 and a #6).

Col (cough, wheeze).

[craigb]

I bought a new #5 a couple of years ago when I first started getting back into this hobby.

I don't think I'd bother buying a new Stanley again.

I got a 1950's English #4 on ebay a couple of months' ago for $60 which still had it's original box, all the Japanning was intact and there was no pitting on the sole at all.

As others have pointed out, the difference in quality between the old and the new planes is chalk and cheese.

My new #5 is a much thinner casting and of course there's the plaso handles.

I finally got around to tuning the #4 this weekend. Took about 4 hours by the tme I'd done the scary sharp thing with the blade and spent a few hours planning a piece of sandpaper, but it was worth it.

It now produces beautifully thin shavings almost effortlessly.

I've put a straight edge on the #5 and I don't think I could stand the amount of time I'd have to spend to get its sole flat.

Keep up the good work with the smokes Col.

I gave up six years ago, best thing I ever did ;)

Cheers
Craig

[Daddles]

Block planes. Some of them have an adjustement at the front that lowers the front of the base plate. Is this to help shaping outside curves?

Richard

[silentC]

I spent some time on my #6 yesterday. The sole is very badly worn in an area at the front, along the lefthand side for about an inch and a half. This is interesting because the #4 I have has exactly the same worn area. Both of these planes belonged to my Grandfather so I wonder if there was some peculiarity in the way he used a handplane that caused them to wear like this?

Sherlock Holmes could tell someone's line of business and physical characteristics by looking at the soles of their shoes. Maybe the same logic could be applied to this problem.

[derekcohen]

Daddles

The reason for the adjustable front on some block planes (such as a Stanley #60 1/2, #65, #18 - but not #110 or #220) is to create an adjustable mouth. Although the screw appears to raise and lower the metal section, it in fact permits it to slide forward and backward.

The idea (which works very well) is that you "open the mouth" to increase the thickness of the shaving (when you want to take a heavier cut), or "close the mouth" (as close as possible) when you want to take the finest smoothing shaving.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[derekcohen]

SilentC

I wonder if your grandfather was left handed (or used a plane left handed)? I imagine that the extra wear could have come from skewing the plane to cut on boards narrower than the width of the plane.

Regards from Perth

Sherlock

[silentC]

Sherlock,

I'm pretty sure he was right-handed BUT it occurs to me that the wear is actually on the right hand side when the plane is sitting handle side up! When I'm inspecting it after lapping, it's on my left. An ironically Watson-like mistake...

So you may still be on the nail.

[Daddles]

Originally posted by derekcohen
Daddles

The idea (which works very well) is that you "open the mouth" to increase the thickness of the shaving (when you want to take a heavier cut), or "close the mouth" (as close as possible) when you want to take the finest smoothing shaving.

Regards from Perth

Derek

So it's worth paying the extra for it then?

Richard

[derekcohen]

Absolutely!!!

With one exception. This is the Lie Nielson Bronze Low Angle Block Plane (#102). NO adjustable mouth (but it has a very small one). It costs new (in Oz) $200. It is small but very heavy for its size. Bloody fantastic plane.

My other favourite is the Stanley #65 Knuckle Joint (L-o-n-g out of production), from eBay. I use it with a Hock blade. It is a low angle blade with adjustable mouth. I can slice endgrain in jarrah as if it were longgrain. A modern equivalent is the Stanley #60 1/2. If you can afford it, get the LN 60 1/2.

Note that the ideal is to get TWO block planes, one for endgrain (a low angle blade is best here), and one for small work with long grain (a standard angle blade is best here). A standard angle (20 degrees) will not easily cut endgrain, and a low angle (12 degrees) will tear out long grain.

My standard angle is the Stanley #18 Knucklehead Block Plane (also long out of production). There is a modern equivalent available.

Regards from Perth

Derek