Adapting a motor for the cheaper lathes

[Tiger]

Ok so I've decided to buy a motor for my WL 18 (MC900 type) lathe. I am being given the runaround by H & F who say it will be here tomorrow and it never comes. I have a surplus motor sitting in the shed. What would I need to do to connect it up to the lathe after I take the current burnt out one off.

The couple of rewinders I went to said it was too much trouble fitting a better motor onto this lathe because of the mount and the shaft. Could someone please explain the difficulties here so that I can ascertain if it's worth my while to go down that track. My knowledge on motors and pulleys is basic but I haven't been able to find much on the web regarding adapting motors, any advice appreciated.

[OGYT]

Tiger, not knowing what an MC900 or WL18 looks like, it's hard for me to help you.
I don't know if the back side of the spindle pulley is open or not, but if it is, you can:
Put a motor on a hinged board so that the motor pulley lines up with the spindle pulley. Hinge it, so that the weight of the motor will keep the belt tight enough to spin.
That's what I did to my VL100 bench model lathe.
Other than that, I don't know what I'm talking about.

[Jim Carroll]

Connecting it is easy.
Fitting a standard motor can be done but needs a bit of mucking about.

Start by checking shaft sizes to make sure the pulley fits.

Is the motor foot mounted or flange mounted .

The physical size of most standard motors is usually bigger than the motor on these lathes, which will reduce the bowl size you can do.

It can be done with a bit of engineering and welding of brackets etc but in the end is it really worth the effort on a cheap lathe.

Put the money towards a new and better lathe.

[Tiger]

Thanks, Al and Jim for responding.

Al, these are I suppose entry level lathes, they are made to a cost. The back is not open, there is a sheet metal cover which I can cut up. I was thinking along the lines of a hinged board and I have some spare pulleys around but the shaft size does not take any of the pulleys I have. I need to find a way to adapt (if I can) the pulleys to the shaft size of the motor. I assume it is not realistic to take the motor apart and machine up a new shaft and then put it back together?

Jim, the welding part is no problem, not sure what you mean by flange mounted. At the moment I'm a little hamstrung with cash, I'm going to have to put up with this lathe, besides I have spent hours modifying the lathe so that the centres line up, so that it has a handwheel on headstock, so that the headstock sits securely rather than creep upward when you tighten the tailstock etc. I would have stuck with it had it not been for the capacitors and now the motor giving up. Will drop in and look at your lathes if and when I go down that side of the coast or I'll wait for the next wood show. By the way, what is your recommendation for the next lathe up from the MC900 types and how much are they?

[Jim Carroll]

Foot mounting is where the motor is mounted onto a plate under the motor.

Flange mounted is where the front of the motor is mounted to a casting or other type of mounting.

The next level up from this type of lathe is the Nova 1624. Most other lathes from what you have up to tis have the smae type of drive and suspicious electricals. Some are better than others but not by much.

The nova is the start of the more seroius lathes and they go up in price in leaps and bounds. All depends on how deep your pockets are.

[Tiger]

Currently, I have a flange mounted motor I think.

The nova 1624 sells for $1700 odd. About the only way I could get close is if you offer me a huge trade-in for mine and could wait a couple of months for the rest :U. Having said that, if you had the money you would not even look at the cheaper lathes as you'll lose so much time modifying and fixing them and still things can go wrong. I am considering my next lathe but it will be a while away, your suggestion looks good, plenty of power and style about it.

[DJ’s Timber]

Tiger, try sending Skew ChiDAMN!! (http://www.woodworkforums.com/member.php?u=7130) a PM, he has the same type of lathe as yours and has extensively modified his. He does have a picture of it somewhere on the forum but I don't particularly want to start looking through his 8,035 posts looking for the picture :doh:

[Tiger]

Thanks DJ, will do.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

He does have a picture of it somewhere on the forum but I don't particularly want to start looking through his 8,035 posts looking for the picture :doh:

That many? :oo: Who's counting? But it took me a while to find the pix from the 550 odd attachments I've also UL'ed...


My toy's a bit complicated for what Tiger wants. Unless he also has the problem of the washing machine motor spinning in the wrong direction and at the wrong RPM.

(Some of us are just stubborn enough to persist in trying to get totally mismatched pieces co-operating instead of going shopping and buying the right bits in the first place. :B)

[joe greiner]

Tiger, not knowing what an MC900 or WL18 looks like, it's hard for me to help you.
I don't know if the back side of the spindle pulley is open or not, but if it is, you can:
Put a motor on a hinged board so that the motor pulley lines up with the spindle pulley. Hinge it, so that the weight of the motor will keep the belt tight enough to spin.
That's what I did to my VL100 bench model lathe.
Other than that, I don't know what I'm talking about.

Al, as best I can determine, the MC900 is substantially identical to the HF34706 (Harbor Freight, not Hare & Forbes) and your old Griz (G5979, no longer sold). The biggest problem for a direct replacement motor would probably be the longer shaft to accept the Reeves variable speed drive.

Joe

[Calm]

Al, as best I can determine, the MC900 is substantially identical to the HF34706 (Harbor Freight, not Hare & Forbes) and your old Griz (G5979, no longer sold). The biggest problem for a direct replacement motor would probably be the longer shaft to accept the Reeves variable speed drive.

Joe

I think this (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=66283)is the same machine, and i am changing it to fully EVS in a couple of months time. Motor and electrics are pesently being sourced. My old motor will then be available and will bolt straight on.

[Big Shed]

I think this (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=66283)is the same machine, and i am changing it to fully EVS in a couple of months time. Motor and electrics are pesently being sourced. My old motor will then be available and will bolt straight on.

I have an MC900 and looking at your photos, the lathe you have has the motor oriented in the opposite direction.

The rear of the motor on my MC900 points towards the tail stock of the lathe, on your photos it looks as though the rear of the motor points away from the tailstock.

Could be a rotation direction problem there?

[Calm]

I have an MC900 and looking at your photos, the lathe you have has the motor oriented in the opposite direction.

The rear of the motor on my MC900 points towards the tail stock of the lathe, on your photos it looks as though the rear of the motor points away from the tailstock.

Could be a rotation direction problem there?

I am probably wrong but i think a WL18 is a Hare & Forbes "HAFCO" lathe. Mine is a Hafco WL18HD that they brought out a couple of years ago.

[Big Shed]

Ok so I've decided to buy a motor for my WL 18 (MC900 type) lathe.



I was going by this statement, looking at Calm's photos of a WL18, it is certainly different from a MC900.

[Calm]

I was going by this statement, looking at Calm's photos of a WL18, it is certainly different from a MC900.

I will be interested why the WL18 and the WL18HD (heavy duty) would be different but then again they are just "knock offs" anyway.

[OGYT]

Rotational/swing-size problems can be solved by cutting an opening in the sheetmetal on the back of the headstock; mounting the motor the direction you need in a lower position on a hinged mount; shimming the shaft so the pulley will fit; and get a longer belt.
I always hated the rear of that motor on my Old Griz... it interfered with some of my off-balance blanks, and was always clogging up with shavings and dust. What possessed them, to make them build it like that? :(

[Big Shed]

I always hated the rear of that motor on my Old Griz... it interfered with some of my off-balance blanks, and was always clogging up with shavings and dust. What possessed them, to make them build it like that? :(


You got that right!:( It is a real PITA.

[woodwork wally]

Hi Tiger the motor rotation is your biggest worry The mc900 is usually 3/4 hp which every one uses as a 1. hp as per 1100 series You can on ebay from ozmestore [under wood lathes ] buy a new motor I am not sure yet what the rpm etc is I plan to email him tomorrow . I do not think it is worth hacking the existing lathe around as this reduces any resale value you may have and also wiring work for the differant motor and it depends on finances also . the 900/1100 series are an entry level that can be made to turn out some pretty good project with tuning and knowing where every thing lines up and shimming headstock etc I will get back when I get an answer on that motor in adelaide Eegards WW Wally

[Tiger]

I had geared myself to visit flea markets this weekend in search of a compatible motor when early Saturday morning I rang H and F and yes there was a motor there. So I go and pick it up and take it home and remove the old one, a quick check of the old one and I see no evidence of burning out, bearings are still fine so not sure where the damage was. Anyway,I change the motor and the lathe runs like it was brand new, it actually sounded better than it had for some time but I did give everything a clean.

By the way dropped into Carbatec and the MC900 and my WL18 are virtually the same machine. Calm's lathe is different, so if anyone else has a problem with their motors, it would seem that the motors are compatible. Thanks to all who responded and particularly Skew who gave me some encouragement to keep trying.

Al, thanks for explaining some of the subtleties regarding motor placements. It seems that these lathes require a long shaft to engage the pulley system properly. Couldn't you just turn a shaft and pressfit onto another motor's shaft, then machine down or place the motor so that the pulleys line up?

Wally thanks for the advice on Ozmestore, still would like to know how much they sell their motors for and whether they are compatible.

Now I can start to waste wood and play with my lathe again :U.

[woodwork wally]

I had geared myself to visit flea markets this weekend in search of a compatible motor when early Saturday morning I rang H and F and yes there was a motor there. So I go and pick it up and take it home and remove the old one, a quick check of the old one and I see no evidence of burning out, bearings are still fine so not sure where the damage was. Anyway,I change the motor and the lathe runs like it was brand new, it actually sounded better than it had for some time but I did give everything a clean.

By the way dropped into Carbatec and the MC900 and my WL18 are virtually the same machine. Calm's lathe is different, so if anyone else has a problem with their motors, it would seem that the motors are compatible. Thanks to all who responded and particularly Skew who gave me some encouragement to keep trying.

Al, thanks for explaining some of the subtleties regarding motor placements. It seems that these lathes require a long shaft to engage the pulley system properly. Couldn't you just turn a shaft and pressfit onto another motor's shaft, then machine down or place the motor so that the pulleys line up?

Wally thanks for the advice on Ozmestore, still would like to know how much they sell their motors for and whether they are compatible.

Now I can start to waste wood and play with my lathe again :U.
Hi again ozme is out of stock and will email when they come in so will post a note when I get the info I dont trust the grey matter since the hair went white -something to do with reflecting the light stopping brain from working Regards WW.WAlly

[joe greiner]

I always hated the rear of that motor on my Old Griz... it interfered with some of my off-balance blanks, and was always clogging up with shavings and dust. What possessed them, to make them build it like that? :(

And after-market faceplates don't project far enough from the headstock spindle, so the swing in that neighbourhood is limited by the motor housing. I ran into the same problem with my Longworth chucks. Why did they build 'em like that? Because they didn't do any real engineering. They just cloned a prototype, warts and all.

Joe

[OGYT]

I agree, Joe. The best a bloke can do is to get a Spindle Extension, if they don't want to move the motor.

Tiger, I know I couldn't do the machining necessary, but there are motor arbor extensions one could get. I got one for my buffing motor, so the buff would be far enough from the housing to buff a large bowl. Having the longer arbor on the motor would mean it would have to be moved back a little on it's mounting, in order for the pulleys to line up. That could have a detrimental effect on the motor bearings, but a really good motor would handle that part of it.

[Calm]

........I ran into the same problem with my Longworth chucks. .......Joe

I put a face plate ring on my Longworth and hold it in the SN2 - would this move it far enough away from the motor??

[OGYT]

David, I'm not sure. I didn't build my Longworths until I bought a different lathe. I only used Jam Chucks on Old Griz. I screwed and glued a wooden tenon on my smaller Longworth, so I could chuck it up in my Nova's 47mm Jaws on the Oneway. It works well, and I think the 47mm Jaws would add another inch to the protrusion of the chuck... it might work... it'd be worth a try.

[joe greiner]

I put a face plate ring on my Longworth and hold it in the SN2 - would this move it far enough away from the motor??

That's pretty much how and why I did it, David. Except I used expansion mode in slots cut in the back disk: http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=50923

For smaller diameters, I made a couple more: http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=51456 (version 2), also has a link to version 3.

Joe

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I didn't post a link to pic of my setup here, although I have sent such a link to Tiger.

My solution to the need for a long motor shaft was to to mount the motor on the TOP of the headstock, driving a lay shaft positioned roughly where the old motor used to be. The lay shaft is easily long enough for the reeves pulleys, and is simply supported with a bearing at each end.

This also makes motor rotation direction irrelevant, as the motor can be mounted whichever way - shaft towards headstock or towards the tailstock - is needed to spin the lay shaft in the correct direction.

Ditto for mismatched motor RPMs, as it's a simple matter to use appropriate pulley ratios between the drive and the lay shaft so that the lay shaft turns at about the same RPM as the original motor.

FWIW, mine has a ganged pulley so I can slow the beast down to super low speeds (about 30RPM) and up to ridiculously high speeds that are better suited to driving a router bit. Needless to say, I don't turn anything at the high end of the scale... but at least I know that I can try if I suffer an extra-heavy surge of testosterone. :roll: