PDA

View Full Version : Power Hacksaw pics.



Woodlee
25th May 2008, 06:50 PM
I picked up the hack saw Friday afternoon I got it loaded and drove home slowly from the scrap yard
The old Nissan ute was sagging under the weight of the saw , and still is until I work out how to get it off. I'm going to see if I can get a forklift ,a local transport company hauls a fork around on a trailer behind their delivery truck I might be able to arrange a lift some time during the week.
I don't fancy using an engine crane as I have a dirt drive way and I cant imagine being able to drag the combined weight of the two on dirt.The saw weighs 500Kgs

Pic 1 front of saw
Pic 2 2 horsepower 3ph electric motor arrangement
Pic 3 the big vice
Pic 4 coolant pump ,I don't think this is original as it mounted on a piece of angle iron bolted to the main frame
Pic 5 Hydraulic feed control valve.
Pic 5 drive side , it has stepped pulleys which gives four speeds .The outer hinged guard is missing and the inner part is broken behind the gear drive.A future project to repair the guard.

I have four heavy 4" steel wheeled castors which I am going to fit to the four feet ,that way once I get it off the ute I will be able to move it around more easily .
It needs a good clean up and a new 2 or 3 hp single phase motor.
I have turned it over by hand and every thing moves easily and the hydraulic rise and fall works well.


Kev.

China
25th May 2008, 09:46 PM
That'll be a nice machine when cleaned up, much more solid than my Hercus, thats a good buy

weisyboy
25th May 2008, 09:49 PM
so what ya gonna use it for?

rodm
25th May 2008, 10:09 PM
You have to admire old iron. It has that solid I'm going to be around a long time look to it.
Can you back the ute in the shed and use a block and tackle?

Woodlee
25th May 2008, 10:59 PM
I'm not sure how old this saw is , maybe not as old as it looks ,my memory of power hacks is limited to the Hercus type with the twin round bar rails.This one has hydraulic lift and lower for the saw and adjustable feed rate , mutltiple speeds ,adjustable dovetailed slide for the blade frame .
I recall using one similar to this at one place where I worked ,but the memory is really fuzzy .
Power hacksaws are some thing that you don't take much notice of ,they are just there .
Unfortunately the ID plate that should be on the door on the side of the base is missing so I cant even determine which model its or when it was made .
the only identification is the makers name cast into the body of the base ."Theo Park & Sons Melbourne."
From information given in a previous post Theo Park made the "Parkansan " brand of machinery which is now owned by Capitol Machinery .

Maybe an e-mail to them might bring some info to light.

Can't back the ute into the shed , I have too much gear in the way I'm afraid ,first in the door is my bandsaw ,its still sitting on a pallet waiting for a frame with castors ,behind that is a spray booth I built for spray painting models that I used to build., behind that is a large steel gun safe which I will be moving as soon as I get the hacksaw off my ute .:roflmao:
In front of the door is a square bench with two rather large mahogany logs sitting on it .

I finished my gun safe and installed it in the house on Saturday morning ,all the guns are now locked in it ,so the borrowed one can go back to its owner

I have been waiting for a local builder to start work on an extension to my shed ,its been 12 months since he quoted and I gave the go ahead .After numerous phone calls with lots of excuses from him I've given up on this fellow , I had another guy around three weeks ago ,for a quote , haven't heard from him either.

Too much stuff .Too little space.

rodm
25th May 2008, 11:46 PM
Kev
I know the story well. I have managed to fill the shed, the patio and now half the carport. Horizontal surface space is a premium and usually clutter gets shifted from one top to another to clear way for the next job. I used to be a clean and tidy worker but it seems to have dropped to new lower levels. :(

wheelinround
26th May 2008, 11:14 AM
Kev now 2 builders come around and haven't returned
Bet you show them your shed and the gear :(
I'd be reluctant to do work for a fella who's got more gear than I have. :D It would be embarrassing. :;

Some poor hard done by tradie working with his triton and workmate while you have a beaut bench table saws etc etc.:p

Oh the saw on the ute stack of sand bags on the ground drive the ute forward and then reveres fast hit the breaks :roll::no:

Quasimodo
26th May 2008, 11:21 AM
I think that saw would date from the 50's or 60's - the motor doesn't have to be that big - the later models only used 3/4 hp motors.

Once you get it off the truck, the easy way to move it is on rollers, I used a couple of old 6" clay drain pipes to roll mine under the house -the bigger the diameter of the pipe the easier it rolls.

Woodlee
26th May 2008, 11:44 PM
Wiesy ,
Im a gonna use it for cutting steel .But because it is four speed I could probably use it for cutting timber as well. Not that I would.

Quasi ,
I was thinking 50 and 60's myself .I did send an e-mail last night to Parkanson Australia ,now owned by Capital Machinery Sales ,and am waiting for a reply.
Once I get the castors on it ,it should be ok they are 4' diam.
Managed to borrow a Manitou forklift for this Friday so it has taken the worry out of the lift,
and my poor old ute will be able to have a rest to work under.

Ray ,
both builders went a pale shade of green when they walked into the shed. Maybe that's the reason I cant get my extension built.I should keep the door shut when I know they are coming around.
The big band saw drew some comments( unprintable here) .Once I get the two extra carports across the shed I will have 117sq meters of roofed area.

wheelinround
27th May 2008, 08:43 AM
:o 117SQ house isn't that big

Woodlee
27th May 2008, 10:23 PM
That's just the shed .Shed is 9 x 7 meters carports will be 9 x6 metres
Would you believe I found another Parkanson power hacksaw today ,almost the same but a smaller model , dosen't have the hydraulic lift for the cutting head.
Seems to be a glut of power hacksaws just recently.

wheelinround
29th May 2008, 10:44 AM
Kev this video may help sort the getting it off problem

http://j-walkblog.com/index.php?/weblog/posts/moving_big_rocks

Quasimodo
29th May 2008, 04:21 PM
Another one on Ebay 200226527027 - shows the missing guard I think. Very cheap at the moment too.

Woodlee
29th May 2008, 10:49 PM
Quasi ,
Thanks for the heads up ,that machine is identical to mine .Ive sent the seller an e-mail asking if he could take a pic of the ID plate and e-mail it to me .
I also copied the picture for future reference for constuction of a guard .Also the coolant pump looks standard as mine is set up the same. Also shows the lever set up for the hydraulic feed ,mine is broken off .

Thanks again.
Kev.

Woodlee
30th May 2008, 10:28 PM
The saw now wears some heavy steel castors and is sitting on the ground.
Poor old Nigel can breathe easy now , the weight is off his back.

Barry Hicks
9th June 2008, 06:30 PM
Holy snapping duck-sh*t. That is a BIG band saw!
You will black out half the town when you fire it up.

Woodlee
9th June 2008, 11:24 PM
I wont be firing it up with that motor ,its three phase ,I don't have three phase power ,if I was still working for the power authority I would though.
It s a hack saw not a band saw btw .I've started stripping it down ,have the saw frame off , the beam and have the vice bars cleaned up and filed the grooves out that the sliding jaw locks in . Have a small crack to repair where the blade holder pin is in the saw frame .I'll do this with metal spray and my Eutectic Super jet torch.
Looks like some one has had this apart some time ago and have done some repairs on the hydraulic pump.It looks as if one of the pistons driven by the eccentrics off the main shaft has punched the bum out of the pump body ,it has been welded up ,but I can't see too much down inside as I need to remove the big drive gear to get the rest of it apart.

I sent an e-mail to the owners of the company that made it but no reply.No reply from the guy on ebay either.

Kev.

chandler_ross
21st June 2008, 02:52 PM
Nice unit.

I had one the same, I have looked, I have a few photos, but I cant find them, sorry. If I come across them I will post them here. Let us know how you go with it. I wish I kept mine. I used to have to move it due to space constraints. After moving it a few times I got sick of it and sold it.

The were a great saw, but I was never able to find fine enough blades for it, and mine never fed properly. The hydraulic pumps were very worn.

Let us know how it goes,
Ross.

Woodlee
21st June 2008, 03:51 PM
Ross ,
It's going great I have nearly completed the restoration .I have to do a couple of small cast iron welding repairs .The biggest job still to do is repair the broken guard and make a complete outer door for it.
I also have to strip the drive shaft assembly and check out the bearings .Who ever owned it before was very liberal with the grease so all the running parts are in good condition.
I have had the pump completely stripped down and replaced the seals on the pistons and the big jack shaft .
The jack shaft seals are an odd sized O-ring ,I have put some in but I don't know if they will work until I fire it up.
I havent been able to find any info on this saw , (model no etc ) so any help would be greatly appreciated .
It looks good in its new paint job ,not original , but I dont really care .
I have some 14 blades for it .I think it will take 15" and 16 " as well but I have never seen those larger sizes.
Will take so in progress pics and post them .

Kev.

Woodlee
21st June 2008, 09:53 PM
Well here are some more pics .

I noticed the bow had a crack where the pin for the saw blade is mounted so I decided to repair it .
Also where the bolt that clamps the moveable vice jaw has been tightened up over the years it has formed a crater in the cast material which has pushed through to the vertical hole where the vice bolt lives and had seized the jaw onto the bolt.
I decided to repair this as well.
Pic 1 is the scarfed out crack
Pic 2 is the prepared spot on the vice jaw.
Pic 3 & 4 is the torch I use for cast iron welding and repair work .It is a Eutectic Super Jet ,it uses metal powder ,and is used similar to an oxy torch when used for normal oxy acetylene welding of steel.
You can see the 2kg bottle of metal powder to the left of the kit ,that bottle of powder costs over $500.00 buckaroos ,so it is used sparingly

Kev,

Woodlee
21st June 2008, 10:03 PM
After prepping the areas to be repaired the torch is set up and a small bottle of powder is set onto the torch .The metal powder is applied by pressing a lever on top of the torch handle.
The area is preheated to a blue colour and then a light spray of powder is applied to act as a surface coat .
Once the surface coat is applied then it is heated to red hot and the spray applied as you form a puddle and run the spray and the parent metal together.Once the area has been filled ,switch off the torch and remove the powder hopper.
The cast iron has some oil in it and this came out while the piece was hot and caused a couple of holes ,the trick here is to keep it red hot and allow the holes to get bigger so all the contaminants escape., then go back over and fill them while the metal is liquid.Hard to do with a stick welder.
I wanted to take pics of the actual welding process but it is difficult trying to use the torch and the camera at the same time.
As you can see in my haste to finish this project I had already primed the bow for painting .
Not much paint got damaged and a quick clean up with the power wire brush fixed it .
Pic 1 the repaired crack after some initial dressing with the grinder
Pic 2 the completed repair on the vice Jaw.
Pic 3 the finished repair after some filing and reaming of the hole back to original size

Woodlee
21st June 2008, 10:18 PM
Now to the rest of the project ,the saw is painted with an epoxy enamel which will give a tough finish ,
Most of the main part is finished , I machined the nuts for the vice clamps to get rid of the dog ears from years of abuse and machined a washer under the nut to stop binding when tightening.
The hydraulic pump has been over hauled and new seals fitted to the two pistons and the jack shaft .
Now that the welding has been done I will re-prime the bow and the vice jaw and then paint.
Pic 1 the saw base with vice and pump fitted ,the moveable vice jaw has been repaired and is cooling on the welding bench .
Pic 2 overall view .
Pic 3 and 4 show the pump and control valve rod , the jack shaft is the large shaft sticking up ,the two pump pistons a the smaller shaft at around 45 deg to the pump.I still have to make a gasket for the plug that screws down over the jack shaft and seal the jack up.
Pic 4 is of the repaired bow and vice jaw.(you like my welding bench ? a 44gallon drum with some short lengths of 150 mm channel welded on top.)
Also you can see the pressure relief valve near the jack shaft.(brass looking thingy)
Tomorrow I will set up the valve control rod ,prime and paint the bow and the vice jaw ,and fit the top cap to the jack.

Kev.

wheelinround
22nd June 2008, 02:44 PM
A great WIP Kev have seen cast welded never done it myself have brazed a none stress cast and seen a real pro braze a cast piece I envy your ability.:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

Woodlee
22nd June 2008, 09:32 PM
Ray ,
Thanks for the kind words .
I have had a fair amount of experience welding cast iron ,with arc , brazing and thermal powder , I prefer the metal powder , but it can not always be used and it's also very expensive.
The place where I did my time ,always preferred to repair rather replace with new parts so this is where my experience came from.
The powder technology is not new but it has become more advanced since I learnt how to do it.
Might have to slow down on this job for a while ,Missus is getting cheesed off ,because I took time off work to do some other jobs ,which I haven't started yet.
I have noticed that when on leave time passes quicker than when at work.


Kev

wheelinround
23rd June 2008, 09:24 AM
Why is it swmbo's always think that leave time is there time when its your time:rolleyes:
When it comes to their leave time off they go far away and no concern still leaving hwmbo with a long long list :p

Woodlee
25th June 2008, 12:18 AM
Yesterday I made a replacement handle for the hydraulic control valve .
The original handle was broken off ,it was made as a one piece casting in cast iron , not a good material for such a slender piece as cast iron is rather brittle and would break off with a moderate impact.
I ground off the stub of the broken lever to get a flat surface , then drilled a 1/4" hole into the centre of the broken stub.
I annealed a 1/2" ball bearing by heating to cherry red and dropped it into a tin with some river sand to let it cool off slowly .
Gripping the softened 1/2 ball in the three jaw chuck I center drilled it and then drilled a 1/4 hole, .
Turned a 1/4" X 1/4" spigot on each end of a piece of 3/4 bar around three inches long

I pressed the ball onto one end of the bar , and then turned the taper on the bar.
I then pressed the other end into the hole in the stub and then silver soldered the joints with high tensile silver solder. I then cleaned up the solder joints with a file and polished the whole deal.
I also made up a screw and installed a ball and spring in the lever so that the detents function, when the lever is operated.

Pic 1 the original busted handle
Pic 2 the remodelled handle with detent ball and spring
Pic 3 closer view.

Waldo
25th June 2008, 12:35 AM
Woodlee, like Kuntz's ressurected b/saw and jointer, yours is a great thread. I'm really enjoying reading this. :2tsup:

Woodlee
25th June 2008, 02:06 AM
Thanks for the encouragement Waldo,


Stripped the drive assy today and reassembled the blade adjusters onto the bow.

You wouldn't believe it ,when I went to assemble the lever onto the shaft I couldn't find the bloody the cross pin that holds the lever handle on .It was a taper pin. Last I remember it was sitting on the top of the base just above the control valve .buggerbitchbumb*st*rd as Wild Dingo would say ,
I was really browned off , so I dug in my cupboard and found a GJ kit of roll pins ,I re-drilled the hole to parallel to the next size pin and assembled it.
Then today I was looking at some timber on the floor and there's the bloody pin on the floor right next to the timber 10 feet from where it should have been.

Biggest problem will be finding a 2 or 3 hp single phase motor that runs around 1425 rpm with a 1" shaft.

Kev.

Woodlee
2nd July 2008, 06:26 PM
Though I would post some more progress pics .It's getting close to finished , still have some odds and ends to do .
One major job left is the guard for the drive gear and pulleys .I also have to find a single phase electric motor of suitable hp .
I was checking out the motor on my Leda 19" band saw , its 2hp and runs at 1425 RPM so If I can get one of those as a spare part Ill be home and hosed.
In the last pic you can see the adjustable depth stop I made ,its the post with the thread sticking out of the top to the right of the pic.
This was missing completely and the saw bow dragged on the main part of the vice ,I don't know how or why they operated it like that .
I made it from a push rod tube from a Cummins 1710 V12 diesel , a 5/8 Whitworth bolt and a couple of nuts.If you look real close down near the bottom of the tube you can just see something of the Cummins part number.
Still have to make the push rods for the eccentrics that drive the pistons for the hydraulics .

Kev

wheelinround
2nd July 2008, 08:27 PM
:o:o thats one big saw Kev love the colour hope she brings many happy hours cutting :U

rodm
2nd July 2008, 08:35 PM
Great project Kev.
Have enjoyed following the progress. :2tsup:

China
3rd July 2008, 12:41 AM
That saw is looking great just don't use it, it will spoil the finnish

Elbow
3rd July 2008, 12:28 PM
Great WIP Kev, I have enjoyed each post on it:U

Allan

Quasimodo
4th July 2008, 02:26 PM
Eventually found my Parkanson brochures from when I was considering buying a new one back in the early 1980's.

Manufacturer's details are:

Theo Park & Son Pty Ltd
Manufacturers of Parkanson Power Hacksaws
"Precise, Strong and Reliable"
10-12 Teton Court, Highett. Victoria. 3190.

The brochure says:

"Thirty years of Power Hacksaw manufacturing experience have gone into producing and designing this machine which we have proved to be a product of quality and capable of competing in the cost field of any market in the world."

Their products ranged from the Econi 6" up to the Heavy Duty 12" - prices from $1300 to over $2000. Factory colour at that time was a mid blue with red lettering.

The machines pictured were more modern looking versions than yours - a picture of a similar machine to yours is in the State Library of Victoria along with 3 other pictures taken by a commercial photographer.

http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/pictoria/a/5/0/im/a50299.jpg

How lucky that old machine was when it fell into your hands rather than being broken up for scrap. I've really enjoyed your posts on this restoration.

Woodlee
5th July 2008, 12:48 AM
Eventually found my Parkanson brochures from when I was considering buying a new one back in the early 1980's.

Manufacturer's details are:

Theo Park & Son Pty Ltd
Manufacturers of Parkanson Power Hacksaws
"Precise, Strong and Reliable"
10-12 Teton Court, Highett. Victoria. 3190.

The brochure says:

"Thirty years of Power Hacksaw manufacturing experience have gone into producing and designing this machine which we have proved to be a product of quality and capable of competing in the cost field of any market in the world."

Their products ranged from the Econi 6" up to the Heavy Duty 12" - prices from $1300 to over $2000. Factory colour at that time was a mid blue with red lettering.

The machines pictured were more modern looking versions than yours - a picture of a similar machine to yours is in the State Library of Victoria along with 3 other pictures taken by a commercial photographer.

http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/pictoria/a/5/0/im/a50299.jpg

How lucky that old machine was when it fell into your hands rather than being broken up for scrap. I've really enjoyed your posts on this restoration.

Quasi ,
Thanks for the info , there are a couple of minor differences between the one in the link and the one I have ,but nothing drastic.
It would have been criminal to break that machine up for scrap ,basically there was not much wrong with it mechanically .Just needed some tlc and some bearings and seals .
I will admit that the bearings would have lasted for many years as they were.
I am amazed that the coolant fixture is still on mine and it looks exactly identical to the picture.
The guard for the drive belts and gear has become a major head ache ,it is a lot of work to repair what is left of it .I scarfed out all of the cracks and cut the broken edges straight ,and was going to cut some 6mm plate to fit ,but trying to get compound curves on 6mm plate is going to be very difficult with out lots of heat and cutting ,welding and grinding .
I have decided to make a complete new one from 3.2 mm aluminium sheet .
I did some drawings and took it to the local sheetie and he quoted me over $500.00 to make it.
I am going to buy the sheet and cut it all out myself and then take it to him so he can weld it together to keep the cost down.
I see on the pic that the machine had oil cups for the top slide lubrication ,I have been surfing the net looking for some .
I will probably make some from brass bar on the lathe and install woollen felt wicks in them.The previous owner had removed the oiler cups and installed grease nipples and went crazy with the grease.I reckoned I've cleaned 50 kilos of grease from the machine.

Thanks again for the info .

Kev.

Woodlee
5th July 2008, 12:52 AM
That saw is looking great just don't use it, it will spoil the finnish


It's already got a coupla scratches on it :no:

Kev.

Woodlee
1st August 2009, 11:05 AM
Well its been just over a year of working on the saw , with interruptions in between with long breaks away from it but I finally have it running to the point where it will cut steel.
I took a video of it operating yesterday and after a long upload (9 hours) got the video loaded onto youtube ,so here is the link .
I still have a few things to complete , like the coolant pump , the outer guard needs fitting on hinges and a length stop made for repeatable cutting .
Most of all I need to find space for it.

A couple of pics of the motor and electrical bits attached .I used the original on /off switch as it was set up for the auto cut out rod and is still working ok.

Over all I'm very happy with the outcome ,it runs nicely and does what it was made for.It's going to save me a lot of hard work cutting heavier stock for machining.

Kev.

wheelinround
1st August 2009, 11:13 AM
:o Wow Kev looks great well done excellent restore :2tsup::2tsup:

Waldo
1st August 2009, 11:49 AM
Fantastic restoration there Woodlee. :brava:

Woodlee
1st August 2009, 11:51 AM
Thanks Ray ,
I'm quite proud of my self and I've impressed the Missus,,,
Quote " well you've actually finished something you started".Unquote
Sarcastic woman she is.
My Parents were here for a few weeks and my Father helped me fit the motor ,once I had my neighbour (electrician ) wire it up we had a bit of a ceremony in the workshop,
Missus , Dad and Mum and the dog came down to see it cut its' first piece of stock in many years.
It's going to take a lot of pressure off the friction saw and my mandraulic hacksaw.

Kev.

Basilg
2nd August 2009, 03:12 PM
Woodlee
:2tsup:Congatulations on a job thoroughly well done. I love seeing these old machines brought back from the dead, and restored for future generations. You must have got huge satisfaction in finishing this off.

Regards:D

Quasimodo
2nd August 2009, 06:48 PM
Well done with that one Kev - I've got a few more old machines waiting here if you get bored now that you've nearly finished the Parkanson.

Sad isn't it how we could once build something of that quality and now we can't even make toothbrushes in this country anymore.

Woodlee
3rd August 2009, 12:21 AM
Yes have to agree .We used to a make good solid machinery in years past ie Woodfast , Hercus , Macson etc.
Seems I may have made a slight error and the machine is not running in the correct rotation .
Apparently the crank arm should pull rearward when it is at the bottom of the crank wheel rotation .
I'm doing some research and cutting time tests to see if It cuts faster in the other direction.
It still works like it is but I would much rather prefer it was right.

I'm looking for a shaper now ,wouldn't have one of those ?
I like the one in the forsale ,I would really like to buy that baby, but it would cost near as much as he's asking to transport it up here.

Kev.

Quasimodo
3rd August 2009, 12:54 PM
I'm pretty sure my hacksaw cuts on the backstroke and lifts on the forward stroke - if that's what you mean.

No shaper but I can see how they would be useful.

In any event, I am all out of room for any more stuff at the moment.

I am very jealous of the people who live in Victoria and NSW as that's where all the Ebay bargains seem to reside.

Basilg
3rd August 2009, 05:40 PM
Woodlee

It is a long time ago, since I last used one of these machines but from what I remember they definitely cut on the pull stroke, & I suspect this was mainly because this was where most of the resistance was on the vice. On the push stroke, if I recall correctly, on the machines I used the Frame was lifted slightly so that the cutting teeth were not dragged backwards over the metal which would increase the blade wear.

Regards

wheelinround
3rd August 2009, 05:43 PM
As long as it runs when the power dies you could use this idea

YouTube - PPPM: Pedal Powered Hacksaw

Woodlee
4th August 2009, 12:46 AM
Woodlee

It is a long time ago, since I last used one of these machines but from what I remember they definitely cut on the pull stroke, & I suspect this was mainly because this was where most of the resistance was on the vice. On the push stroke, if I recall correctly, on the machines I used the Frame was lifted slightly so that the cutting teeth were not dragged backwards over the metal which would increase the blade wear.

Regards


That's how this one works too ,forward stroke it lifts and backward stroke it cuts .But if you look at the rotation of the crank wheel ,the conrod is at the top of the wheel going in a clockwise direct and I reckon it should be at the bottom of the wheel is an anticlockwise rotation.
The conrod should be horizontal on the back stroke.
I'll reverse the motor and see if it affects the lift and cut timing before I decide.

Attached pic to help explain.

Kev.