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bowerbird
6th June 2008, 08:19 PM
Hi, can someone please rattle off a list of suitable timbers for turning kitchen utensils that are safe to be used with food? such as honey dippers, egg cups, pots, bowls etc particularly items that may need frequent washing/rinsing.

i know that i can't use camphor laurel and any other scented timbers as they may taint food.

does anyone know where i can purchase some orange oil to use on the aforementioned items?

thanks in advance.
BB

Pat
6th June 2008, 08:38 PM
Ti tree, most eucalypti and avoid Burls, they have holes in them:)

Skew ChiDAMN!!
6th June 2008, 09:21 PM
Wood from almost any fruit tree. :2tsup:

Citrus, Apple, Pear, Cherry, Plum, Walnut, etc., etc., etc...

(Unless it is spalted.)

bowerbird
6th June 2008, 09:22 PM
thanks Pat, :) will see what aussie timbers i can get hold of.

heard that maple is supposed to be good too but not sure which type. does anyone know about this pls?
is radiata pine ok to use with food? i would like to know about a variety of timbers that i can use so i can do different things for different folks! :;

cheers,
BB


Ti tree, most eucalypti and avoid Burls, they have holes in them:)

bowerbird
6th June 2008, 09:28 PM
excellent thanks! :U i've got 2 mango trees.... wonder what i can turn them into! i 'spose the branches will have to be cut square so that i can get the timber centred properly on the lathe... is that right :?
i'm learning! :cool:
cheers,
BB


Wood from almost any fruit tree. :2tsup:

Citrus, Apple, Pear, Cherry, Plum, Walnut, etc., etc., etc...

Skew ChiDAMN!!
6th June 2008, 09:58 PM
Mango? Never tried it for myself, but from what I hear it's prone to be attacked by blue-stain fungus while drying. You could search these forums for posts containing "Mango" by "Cliff Rogers" for more info/opinions.


If you're cutting up & drying your own logs/branches for turning, then you should split them in half through the pith/heartwood to help reduce splitting.

Claw Hama
6th June 2008, 10:16 PM
Hi guys, I made a batch of timber spoons a while back from some scraps of Tasie Myrtle I had left over from a job. They worked a treat everyone loves them, don't seem to have any taste or other issues. On my web site under turning if you want to look see.
:PANCAKES:

watson
6th June 2008, 11:09 PM
Nice site Claw Hama.
(quote)does anyone know where i can purchase some orange oil to use on the aforementioned items?(quote)

Bowerbird, you may like to try the Food Safe Finish search, which will reveal a few "revelations". What fixed your tummy as a kid is the clue!

joe greiner
6th June 2008, 11:27 PM
No need to cut square for subsequent turning round. Either way, you cut "air" for a while (thump, thump, thump) - roughing gouge preferred. To find the centre, cut some disks of cardboard in various diameters with a centre hole to mark the ends. Fit the maximum size disk at each end. If there's a mid-span deviation, adjust the centre point to maximise the piece size. At least one of the blokes here uses a single perspex disk showing concentric circles. Google [centre finder] or [center finder] to locate a pic and identify the perpetrator(s).

There are special circumstances where you can use the whole log for spindle turning, but in general you can let the log crack where it likes and split it there so as to use the parts with shrinkage stress relieved by the splitting. Find the centres as described above.

Joe

Claw Hama
6th June 2008, 11:28 PM
Thanks watson, Bowerbird with my spoons I boil them in salt water to season them and wash out any excess sap etc and then when dry I give them a good coat of olive oil. Some of Organoils products are food safe also which I normaly use on my turned bowls. Check their web site, good home grown Ausie products too.

bowerbird
7th June 2008, 09:47 AM
thanks claw, watson, skew & joe for your very helpful comments and search ideas etc.

yeah, i have a nice piece of tassie myrtle, am saving that until i decide what to do with it rather than cut it up for smaller stuff.

i guess radiata pine must be ok as i got a freebie breadboard from a mitre 10 demo. made a rolling pin about 10 years ago out of radiata. the shortbread bikkies and pastry tasted ok. so unless someone says "shock horror, no don't use radiata!" then I will try making some new utensils with it until the myrtle beckons me.

cheers,
BB

bowerbird
7th June 2008, 10:28 AM
watson please give me more clues. i searched and it came up with 10 pages, haven't got the time or the energy to search the lot. was there a specific post or thread that you could send me the link for please?




Bowerbird, you may like to try the Food Safe Finish search, which will reveal a few "revelations". What fixed your tummy as a kid is the clue!

tea lady
7th June 2008, 02:47 PM
There was talk of olive oil NOT being good because it can go rancid. I use Eco Wood wipe (available from Bunnings. ) for my spoons and handles. You have to wait for the orange smell to go, but it seems great. Salad spoons doing good service. The Organoil Hard burnishing oil says its food safe on the label. You can just wipe it on for a matte finish, or burnish it for gloss. I think the nut oils are supposed to be OK. Wall Nut oil and such, from supermarket.

I am currently learning to turn with ye olde Radiatta pine. Its hard to get a nice finish on because of tear out and stuff. Needs lots sand paper work but never as nice as you want it to be.:rolleyes: Plane tree has been suggested as good for utensils, but I've no idea were to get it other than following around the council tree loppers.:hmm

Claw Hama
7th June 2008, 02:52 PM
Hi Tea Lady, never had any problem with Olive oil, I have done bread boards, spoons, salad bowls all for years without any drama. Have been temped of late to try wallnut oil though.

bowerbird
7th June 2008, 05:59 PM
thanks tea lady & claw.

yeah i was told not to use cooking oils but i have used sunflower oil or some other cheap oil on my breadboard but it isn't on there long enough to go rancid because it gets washed every time i use it. it dries quickly and i haven't re-oiled it for ages. will check out the orange oil & walnut oil etc, peanut oil might be a goer too. will investigate the organoils too.

cheers,
BB

ubeaut
7th June 2008, 07:14 PM
To save sifting through 10 pages and for the 15,000th time best finish for wooden utensils used for food is NO finish at all second best paraffin oil (mineral oil) third no finish 4th paraffin oil a 5th nothing at all and this is from the manufacturer of food safe finishes. With finishes as with timbers avouid anything with high aromatics.

Most surface coatings (polyurethane, shellac and all other hard surface coatings once they are dry and fully cured) beware of oils because they can be a minefield, partly because most can go rancid but almost as bad is they can often have a lingering odour that often lasts for many months and will taint food.

Big problem with most finishes is they take away the timbers natural ability to rid itself of bacteria, salmonella and other nasties.

Good timbers: Pinus radiata (everyday pine) good clean 1st grade timber is best. Maple - American, European, Hard rock etc Not Qld Maple which I believe is a bit toxic. Oak - any kind of TRUE oak, English, American, Japanese, European. Not silky. Myrtle/Myrtle-Beech. In short most close grained, light coloured, non aromatic, timbers.

Most fruit woods, pear is brilliant for carving and turning, apricot, peach and apple also. Almond is fine if you can get straight stuff (it's often spiral in the grain and splits badly) rather not use walnut for smell and taste problems could easily taint foods.

Hope this helps a little.

Cheers - Neil :U

PS All our products (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/ubhome.htm) are food safe.

rsser
7th June 2008, 07:35 PM
Yes, agree in all modesty with the master.

Except the only untreated wood shown by actual treely-rooly research to combat nasties is good ole crapiata. And the tests were only done with common bacteria - not with viruses or parasites.

watson
7th June 2008, 07:39 PM
watson please give me more clues. i searched and it came up with 10 pages, haven't got the time or the energy to search the lot. was there a specific post or thread that you could send me the link for please?


See what the Boss said.

bowerbird
7th June 2008, 09:02 PM
thanks ever so much, Neil. that more than helped a little. if i knew what i was looking for it might have been easier to find. i suffer with severe scoliosis related headaches and back pain. you're a champion for doing that for 15,000th time and saved me hours of trawling. :D:2tsup:

i agree, shellac etc would be ok on fruit bowls but i wouldn't be game to put it on a honey dipper or the like.

when i was in tassie again last year we put sanding sealer on the huon pine bowl (dawg avatar) then EEE.... ubeauteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :)
i think the bowl is too special to use it for anything other than a show piece. it being the 1st bowl i've ever successfully made... 1 previous attempt became a donut :oo::(( :doh: onwards an upwards.... i can only get better not worse than that!

is pacific maple ok for food utensils?

it was my turn to do the housework today (as it always is) but tomorrow it's time to put these tips into action and make more mess in my shed. :cool:
thanks again.
BB


To save sifting through 10 pages and for the 15,000th time best finish for wooden utensils used for food is NO finish at all second best paraffin oil (mineral oil) third no finish 4th paraffin oil a 5th nothing at all and this is from the manufacturer of food safe finishes. With finishes as with timbers avouid anything with high aromatics.

Most surface coatings (polyurethane, shellac and all other hard surface coatings once they are dry and fully cured) beware of oils because they can be a minefield, partly because most can go rancid but almost as bad is they can often have a lingering odour that often lasts for many months and will taint food.

Big problem with most finishes is they take away the timbers natural ability to rid itself of bacteria, salmonella and other nasties.

Good timbers: Pinus radiata (everyday pine) good clean 1st grade timber is best. Maple - American, European, Hard rock etc Not Qld Maple which I believe is a bit toxic. Oak - any kind of TRUE oak, English, American, Japanese, European. Not silky. Myrtle/Myrtle-Beech. In short most close grained, light coloured, non aromatic, timbers.

Most fruit woods, pear is brilliant for carving and turning, apricot, peach and apple also. Almond is fine if you can get straight stuff (it's often spiral in the grain and splits badly) rather not use walnut for smell and taste problems could easily taint foods.

Hope this helps a little.

Cheers - Neil :U

PS All our products (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/ubhome.htm) are food safe.

bowerbird
7th June 2008, 09:15 PM
yes, i did thanks watson. a good clue too would have been parafin oil. food safe finishes was helpful but not specific.

re your earlier comment... childhood? did i have one? so... i'm having my childhood for the rest of my life :D

can't remember what i was given for tummy probs but will never forget being given cod liver oil. :((:oo: i know... different application.... :wink:

cheers,
BB



See what the Boss said.

madcraft
7th June 2008, 09:16 PM
Mango? Never tried it for myself, but from what I hear it's prone to be attacked by blue-stain fungus while drying. You could search these forums for posts containing "Mango" by "Cliff Rogers" for more info/opinions.
.


Skew

You've got to give it a try "Funky" Smell while it's being turned comes up Beautiful sanded to 1200 and finished with Danish , Turns like butter both spindle and end grain turning

Cheers
Glenn

bowerbird
7th June 2008, 09:20 PM
thanks for your comments. i take it you mean radiata? doesn't crapiata only grow in a lav atree forest? :roll::)


Yes, agree in all modesty with the master.

Except the only untreated wood shown by actual treely-rooly research to combat nasties is good ole crapiata. And the tests were only done with common bacteria - not with viruses or parasites.

bowerbird
7th June 2008, 09:29 PM
thanks for sharing that with us Glenn. i'll cut the whole big mango tree down then... can't wait to turn some butter on my lathe. :roll: this is sooooooooo much fun.... wish i had power to my shed so i could go play with some mango butter now. :cool::D:D hmmmmmmmmm butter & danish.... yummy! :wink:
thanks guys, it's great to be learning this stuff. will print it tomorrow.... coz i won't remember it all when i need to.
Cheers,
BB


Skew

You've got to give it a try "Funky" Smell while it's being turned comes up Beautiful sanded to 1200 and finished with Danish , Turns like butter both spindle and end grain turning

Cheers
Glenn

robutacion
7th June 2008, 10:50 PM
No need to cut square for subsequent turning round. Either way, you cut "air" for a while (thump, thump, thump) - roughing gouge preferred. To find the centre, cut some disks of cardboard in various diameters with a centre hole to mark the ends. Fit the maximum size disk at each end. If there's a mid-span deviation, adjust the centre point to maximise the piece size. At least one of the blokes here uses a single perspex disk showing concentric circles. Google [centre finder] or [center finder] to locate a pic and identify the perpetrator(s).

There are special circumstances where you can use the whole log for spindle turning, but in general you can let the log crack where it likes and split it there so as to use the parts with shrinkage stress relieved by the splitting. Find the centres as described above.

Joe


Hi joe greiner,

Well, that was probably me...!:D
I'm attaching a pic of that tool here, for any additional info about it, visit my web site, is all there.
Thanks also for mentioning it "center finder tool", is always rewarding when someone remember something one/I done.:2tsup:

Cheers
RBTCO

joe greiner
7th June 2008, 11:31 PM
Thanks for jumping in RB. I guess I forgot which of the alleged perpetrators was guilty.:D:D

Joe

robutacion
8th June 2008, 12:12 AM
Not a "problemo":2tsup:

Cheers
RBTCO

bowerbird
8th June 2008, 08:05 AM
hey RBTCO, great site thanks! some very useful tools on there and great ideas.:)
Cheers,
BB


Hi joe greiner,

Well, that was probably me...!:D
I'm attaching a pic of that tool here, for any additional info about it, visit my web site, is all there.
Thanks also for mentioning it "center finder tool", is always rewarding when someone remember something one/I done.:2tsup:

Cheers
RBTCO

robutacion
8th June 2008, 10:13 PM
Not a problem bowerbird, you're welcome...!:2tsup:

Cheers
RBTCO

joe greiner
8th June 2008, 10:24 PM
Thanks to this thread, I've gotten off my duff and I'm now making a template similar to Robutacion's. I may, or may not, retire my cardboard disks. I'm using Imperial of course.

One thing that dawned on me just in time (should have realised it sooner), is that the radius holes are in groups of four in sort of a spiral pattern to progress to each increment. Groups of six, using hexagonal axes, would also work, but I probably don't have enough coloured pens.

AND, I'll inscribe a notation citing its origin. Credit where credit's due, right mates?

Joe

powderpost
8th June 2008, 10:34 PM
I use white beech for cooking utensils, burnished and finished with walnut oil. Been doing so for six years now, in fact one of my regular customers has a son allergic peanuts and any hint of peanut oil. No problem there.
Jim

robutacion
8th June 2008, 10:37 PM
Absolutely, Joe :D
Always glad to help...!:q

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

bowerbird
9th June 2008, 05:57 PM
Thanks for the tips, Jim. :2tsup:
My cousin in Maleny gave me a big chunk from a white beech log last year. If it's dry in my life time :p :wink: I'll make some utensils! One of my woodie mates is going to cut it up for me soon. I can't even lift it!
Cheers,
BB


I use white beech for cooking utensils, burnished and finished with walnut oil. Been doing so for six years now, in fact one of my regular customers has a son allergic peanuts and any hint of peanut oil. No problem there.
Jim

OGYT
11th June 2008, 10:10 AM
Pine, Cottonwood, Bois d'Arc, Mesquite... all make good utensils. We have some bowls that I made out of Black Walnut that we've used for salads, etc., and so far no illnesses. :U
The harder the wood, though, the better the utensil, because it's harder to scar up. Neil is right as rain about no finish is best. Wood can get rid of bacteria on it own, even without washing it. Yep, that's right.
When you wash a wooden utensil, if you'll dry it quick as you rinse it, and then let it air dry the rest of the way (towards dry), you can get rid of any raised grain by a quick rub with table salt and a paper towel. The salt will also help to purify the piece so it's ready to use again.
Before glass, and before tin, they used wood. It's still the cat's whiskers in my book. :D

rsser
11th June 2008, 11:45 AM
Wood's anti-microbial properties are a bit of an urban myth Al. I trawled through the research a while ago:


the only untreated wood shown ... to combat nasties is good ole crapiata. And the tests were only done with common bacteria - not with viruses or parasites.

OGYT
11th June 2008, 12:35 PM
Wood's anti-microbial properties are a bit of an urban myth Al. I trawled through the research a while ago:

I was also reading about this not long ago, in order to make some sense of it. I got this bit from a German site, somewhere: Résumé / Abstract The survival of two hygienically relevant bacteria, Escherichia coli plE639 and Enterococcus faecium, was followed on wooden sawdust of seven different European woods (pine, spruce, larch, beech, maple, poplar, and oak) versus polyethylene chips by using cultivation-dependent and molecular-based methods in parallel. The survival of the bacteria on wood was dependent on various factors such as the wood species, the type of the inoculated bacterium, the ambient temperature, and humidity. The bacterial titre decreased fastest on pine followed by oak compared to the other woods and plastic. Cultivation-independent analysis employing DNA extraction, Southern blot hybridisation, and PCR-based detection of marker genes of the test bacteria confirmed this result. The decline in bacterial numbers correlated with the decrease of bacterial DNA in the samples. Amounts of DNA of E. coli and E. faecium recovered from pine and oak-wood sawdust were generally lower compared to the other woods and plastic. The presented study shows that pine and oak exhibit substantially better hygienic performance than plastic and indicates an antibacterial effect caused by a combination of the hygroscopic properties of wood and the effect of wood extractives."

I also read something about the same type of research being done on bare wood, at an American University (can't remember which one... Tennessee maybe?) and they were smearing E.Coli and other such on wood, and then testing after different periods of time, and finding most of the bacteria dead.
Of course, the two people that write the blurbs on Snopes said it wasn't a truly scientific test, but they didn't say how they came to that conclusion.
But, since I'm not a scientist, I haven't done any experiments of my own, so you may be right, Ern.:D

rsser
11th June 2008, 12:50 PM
Good stuff Al.

Not gonna ask what E. faecium is!

So there's an anti-bacterial effect with two timbers - be good to know how much and therefore how far normal hygiene procedures could be relaxed.

Results of my scan here: http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=58366&highlight=parasites

bowerbird
12th June 2008, 10:41 PM
Thanks Al, & thanks again to all the other contributors, I now have a long list of timbers and hints on finishing. Finding some of the timbers and using whatever I can get sure will keep me busy with turning projects for ages :D

yeah, timber's the bees knees for me. but.... eeeek! eeeek! :oo: I couldn't cut raw meat on a wooden board an not wash it... I doubt that the wood can get rid of the bacteria from chicken.... it would be putrid in next to no time ugh :no: :o I wooden cut my vegies on the board after the chicken either, :wink: (pun intended.) not without a good wash and maybe a salt scrub as you suggested.

Cheers,
BB



Pine, Cottonwood, Bois d'Arc, Mesquite... all make good utensils. We have some bowls that I made out of Black Walnut that we've used for salads, etc., and so far no illnesses. :U
The harder the wood, though, the better the utensil, because it's harder to scar up. Neil is right as rain about no finish is best. Wood can get rid of bacteria on it own, even without washing it. Yep, that's right.
When you wash a wooden utensil, if you'll dry it quick as you rinse it, and then let it air dry the rest of the way (towards dry), you can get rid of any raised grain by a quick rub with table salt and a paper towel. The salt will also help to purify the piece so it's ready to use again.
Before glass, and before tin, they used wood. It's still the cat's whiskers in my book. :D

tea lady
12th June 2008, 10:47 PM
I think there was something on a short lived show on some comercial channel or other, called "What's good for you". Their highly scientific conclosions were that wood boards were the best. With marble , plastic and other modern materials the bacteria seemed to travel and pretty soon was all over the board, but with the wood, the bacteria stayed more localized, trapped in the pores. Seems you can't get rid of them, but you can limit their spread.