PDRs in the USA - Long voyages, meet-ups [Archive]

Boatmik

10th June 2008, 08:41 PM

Well ... some PDRacer news from the USA.

As most of you probably know the PDR is a concept with one defined hullshape and a great deal of freedom about other things.

The Americans started off the whole thing in a different direction to the OZ PDRs - they want to build their boats super cheap and super fast. Happily the rules allow both types of boats to co-exist and both types have benefited from the other.

It has kept the price of building the OZ down - particularly because of the polytarp sails, and gradually some of the US sailors have used OZ type ideas to make their boats faster and more reliable - including recovering from capsize more safely and far greater hull rigidity and better upwind performance.

So - the US sailing season has started - their water has defrosted - and they are out there.

Now remember that I hold the world speed record for PDRs - at the Goolwa Wooden Boat Festival - when it was too blowy for most other boats to get out - I was out there. A measured PEAK speed of 9.1 mph in about 25knots of breeze and a nice chop - my first outing in a decent breeze - so I didn't push as hard as I could have.

http://www.pdracer.com/records/speed/mik/dd6.jpg
Article here http://www.pdracer.com/records/speed/mik/index.htm

Now the Americans are cramping my style - one of their boats has hit 9.0mph (why do they measure in these arcane units?).

Again in very blowy conditions. At one of the American "Messabout" weekends.

This is what Bill Giles one of the US stalwarts said

Due to some business constraints I am unable to do justice to the Rend Lake messabout but had to make this post.

http://grantmaclaren.com.hosting.domaindirect.com/messabout/images/IMG_6776.jpg

My brother, Kenny #212, and I arrived Friday night abotu 5 pm. We quickly bropped the boats (#2and #185) in the water. Conditions were exciting. Rend Lake runs south to north and the wind was blowing right up the lake at abotu 15 to 20. There was serious chop also.

http://grantmaclaren.com.hosting.domaindirect.com/messabout/images/IMG_6782.jpg

During that sail Kenny clocked 7.8 miles per hour.

On Saturday the winds were even more serious. During the morning we sailed the width of the lake, about 2 miles, I will measure later. We covered 8 miles with average speed in the 4.6 range. Thats average 4.6. During the afternoon Kenny sailing #185 managed a max speed of 9.0 MPH! Conditions then were gust to 28-30.

http://grantmaclaren.com.hosting.domaindirect.com/messabout/images/IMG_6780.jpg

Absolutely extreme. I can't imagine any more fun could be had at any price.

Sawdust and Spray!
Bill

Another of the PDR attendees broke some bits but added to the story - Dave Gray of Polysail International.

Bill and Kenny Giles were definitely the stars of the weekend. The Giles brothers, who had sailed in similar conditions the week before at Lake Pepin, generally had the lake to themselves during most of Saturday with the masters of the other 29 boats that were there mostly on shore shaking their heads in wonder at the PDRacers seaworthiness.

John Nystrom of Peru, IN and I were out for brief sails in the rough conditions. John broke his leeboard, and I took enough water over the bow that I was having difficulty controlling my boat. I posted the few pictures I got on the photos section.

Dave Gray

Finally from one of the attendees who has no affiliations with PDRs - but was doing a report on the whole event Thomas Hamernik

Thanks, Max, for the report. And, thank-you very much
for welcoming/hosting/cooking/serving and all the rest
that you do at this very nice event each year!

Your (peach) cobbler was delicious!

There was a nice range of craft this year. My
favorites include the B&B Yacht Designs (Graham
Byrnes) Core Sound 20 used in the Everglades
Challenge, a beautifully detailed Devlin Nancy's
China, Jim's AF4 (the subject of his current essays),
the many plywood double paddle canoes and kayaks, the
beautifully stiched skin-on-frame kayak and Chris
Feller's Michalak Philsboat.

Regarding the wind and the PD Racers - they did
amazingly well under the conditions. At times, I am
convinced there were three-foot waves, many crested
and some rolling breakers. Much of the time, there
were crested two-foot waves, and the PD Racers still
made progress to windward. Good sailors, and a
remarkably able craft.

TJH

One of the interesting things is that instead of one or two PDRs meeting up for a sail like last season ... it is now commonly 4 or 5 whenever people decide to go to an event or just have a sail together.

Best wishes
MIK

If you want to keep more up to date than this you can see the Duckworks race site
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/08/gatherings/tx200/index.htm
or the PDRacer main site forum in the USA - look for items labelled Texas200.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pdracer/messages

Boatmik

10th June 2008, 09:03 PM

Not that I would recommend anyone to be this crazy - but you can't keep those Yanks down!!!

There are two PDRacers (Correction threee) in the Texas 200 - a 200 mile low key RAID event up the coast of ... Texas.

Here is a shot of the course - ending at Magnolia beach - a place much favoured by the US home built wooden boat crowd.

http://www.texas200.com/images/route2.jpg

For a better idea of why this is a good choice ... look at the barrier islands protecting the coast from anything really big and nasty (except for hurricanes maybe).

There is a chain of Google Earth Images that can whet the appetite and the imagination. The coast is mostly ranches meaning that it is pretty untouched and isolated.
http://www.texas200.com/images/route-kellan/index.htm

If they get a northerly wind - it will be a lot of work!!! But anything from the south, East or West it will be a very easy sail - except for the distance involved - that is a 40 mile a day average in laden boats.

Something like this would be great in OZ, but the Norwegians and Swedes got all the Fjiords and the USA got all the barrier islands - Texas, Florida, the ICW.

MIK

If you want to keep more up to date than this you can see the Duckworks race site
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/08/gatherings/tx200/index.htm
or the PDRacer main site forum in the USA - look for items labelled Texas200.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pdracer/messages

b.o.a.t.

11th June 2008, 12:08 AM

Something like this would be great in OZ, but the Norwegians and Swedes got all the Fjiords and the USA got all the barrier islands - Texas, Florida, the ICW.
MIK

Ever since I heard of these events, I have sometimes wondered about something like this in SA. Other than Moreton & Port Phillip Bays, we probably have the best coastline for small boat cruising in the south-east.

Maybe from the Port to Edithburg, overnighting at Pt Parham, Pt Wakefield, Ardrossan, Pt Vincent/Stansbury, & Edithburg.
Or the Spencer from Hardwicke Bay, Pt Vicky, Moonta, Wallaroo, Pt Broughton, Pt Pirie. Pt Augusta might be a bit big a stretch in anything but ideal conditions.

I don't know any of these towns well, so not sure of accommodations available. Have to pick the tide too, especially Pts Parham, Wakefield & Broughton.

Then there's Goolwa/Clayton to Milang, Wellington, Tailem Bend, Murray Bridge, Mannum. Or the other way, depending upon which way the water is flowing....

Is this time for a new thread? Interest? Practicalities?

cheers
AJ

Boatmik

11th June 2008, 12:39 AM

Look how much interest the Tinaroo Raid has produced.

We can start it as informally as they have - the closest thing is the Stansbury/Victor event. Problem with the Gulf is that there are not many places to scurry if the weather gets real bad.

Something like Micros and up would be able to hack it, but if a Southerly or other strong wind came through and hung round - I'd be a bit worried about sea conditions.

Let me look on Google Earth.

MIK

Daddles

11th June 2008, 12:42 AM

Then there's Goolwa/Clayton to Milang, Wellington, Tailem Bend,

You mean I'd have to fit my PDR with four wheel drive :oo:

Richard

b.o.a.t.

11th June 2008, 01:24 AM

Problem with the Gulf is that there are not many places to scurry if the weather gets real bad.

Something like Micros and up would be able to hack it, but if a Southerly or other strong wind came through and hung round - I'd be a bit worried about sea conditions.
MIK

True. You probably couldn't schedule it from day X to day Y. Probably have to be more like a 5-day block somewhere in a 2 week window. Not a good 'fit' with modern living... Also, I haven't seen the nothern gulf in a southerly blow (been crabbing at Middle Beach once - a good landing site at high tide...) Logically it would be lumpy, given wave fetch. On the other hand, BoM always forecasts lesser wind strength north of a line from "Brighton to Cowell" or "Brighton to Stansbury". Does one maybe tend to cancel the other?

I recall that James Michener notes in "Chesapeake", the eastern Chesapeake Bay fishermen rarely worried about being caught against a lee shhore. If it got bad, they just went with it & blew ashore on shelving sand. No rocky coasts to break up on. Looks like the gulf coast is similar, apart from mangroves from the Port up to about Light Beach.

Apart from the shelter aspect, the Google overheads look very similar to the Texas 200 course - arid, flat country abutting the sea. BYO drinking water.

b.o.a.t.

11th June 2008, 01:31 AM

You mean I'd have to fit my PDR with four wheel drive :oo:
Richard

Fit beach trolley wheels & call it a land yacht. :D
Ducks are amphibious (sort-of). Why not also a PDR?
Anyway, you never know.... one day it might rain again.

AJ

dognest

11th June 2008, 03:52 AM

-1

Boatmik

11th June 2008, 05:05 AM

TEXAS 200 - from Sandra at Duckworks
June 10, 2008
Yes, a little late--Chuck just called. I know, I know, I was supposed to put up Kellan's position last night, but this is a new thing, and I forgot. Here is the first one and I will post the second last:
Kellan's position: (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=26.8854,-97.4615&ie=UTF8&z=12&om=1)
Latitude:26.8854
Longitude:-97.4615
Nearest Location:not known
Distance:not known
Time:06/09/2008 17:23:42 (GMT)Here is what else is going on: As of 10.30AM, Chuck and Mike are at the mouth of Baffin Bay, and most other boats are ahead of them.
http://www.texas200.com/images/boats/chuck_leinweber.jpg

The Miller family left the start late, and tried to make time with full sail, and capsized

http://www.texas200.com/images/boats/john_miller.jpg

(winds were gusting to 30).

The Martha Jane skipper, who also left late, found them and helped them get back upright and advised them to reef their sail, and they are okay, but still behind the rest of the group. The Martha Jane reached the first camp late yesterday evening.

Martin Adams--sailing his owner built catamaran, has not been seen since the start, and they are hoping to hear from him today.

http://www.texas200.com/images/boats/martin_adams.jpg
(if those are just ply webs from the tramp to the hull I can't see what is preventing them from sheering off - can't see enough detail - mik)

There were 28 boats at the first camp--Graham Byrnes in the Southern Skimmer reached camp first around noon. He recorded a new top speed for him of 18 mph, which was helped slightly by a 1.5mph current in the land cut.

http://www.texas200.com/images/boats/graham_byrnes.jpg

Chuck says everyone he has seen is happy and having fun. they are sailing fast, but when they catch up with Kellan (whose inflatable kayak is doing just fine), they will slow down and stay with him as they have most of his food and lunchtime is approaching. He said he will give me a longer report tonight--phone connection was spotty, lots of wind.

http://www.texas200.com/images/boats/kellan_hatch2.jpg

Here is Kellan's next position:
Kellan's position: (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=27.1006,-97.442&ie=UTF8&z=12&om=1)
Latitude:27.1006
Longitude:-97.442
Nearest Location:not known
Distance:not known
Time:06/09/2008 20:24:49 (GMT)

If you want to keep more up to date than this you can see the Duckworks race site
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/08/gatherings/tx200/index.htm
or the PDRacer main site forum in the USA - look for items labelled Texas200.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pdracer/messages

m2c1Iw

11th June 2008, 12:52 PM

Ever since I heard of these events, I have sometimes wondered about something like this in SA. Other than Moreton & Port Phillip Bays, we probably have the best coastline for small boat cruising in the south-east.

Maybe from the Port to Edithburg, overnighting at Pt Parham, Pt Wakefield, Ardrossan, Pt Vincent/Stansbury, & Edithburg.
Or the Spencer from Hardwicke Bay, Pt Vicky, Moonta, Wallaroo, Pt Broughton, Pt Pirie. Pt Augusta might be a bit big a stretch in anything but ideal conditions.

I don't know any of these towns well, so not sure of accommodations available. Have to pick the tide too, especially Pts Parham, Wakefield & Broughton.

Then there's Goolwa/Clayton to Milang, Wellington, Tailem Bend, Murray Bridge, Mannum. Or the other way, depending upon which way the water is flowing....

Is this time for a new thread? Interest? Practicalities?

cheers
AJ

Maybe the Ubeaut SA Squadron could hang off the Tripolis race Pt Pirie-Pt Augutta-Whyalla approx 100 miles held after Christmas and organised by the Pt Pirie Yacht Club. Think the poor little PD's would need a rest in the between a couple of legs. The Whyalla- Pt Pirie leg is 20 miles non stop. What do you reckon?

Mike

Boatmik

11th June 2008, 12:57 PM

Texas200 from Jeremy on the PDR forum

hey all,

Just got a call from Andrew (Linn - sailing a PDR). They had no cell coverage last night.

http://www.texas200.com/images/boats/andrew_linn-s.jpg

There are a total of 26 boats in the fleet. Things are going quite well.

Andrew's top speed today was 5.1 kno with an avg speed of 3.9 kno.

I asked how the ducks were holding up and he replied "Great! They're built like
tanks!"

He sounded tired but upbeat.And from Jim Isbell

I just got to the house from running the second leg of the 200 in
Coastrider. The three pdrs were at Hals cut last night and I have
pictures af all of them during todays leg. But Coastrider has
retired. Joe Garbut had to quit because of his wifes commitment to
Jury Duty. The owner of Coastrider didnt want to go on to Magnolia
beach so we removed my canoe from the cabin top and went home.

http://www.texas200.com/images/boats/jim_isbell.jpg
this is Jim Isbell's (the photographer of the later event photos) own Gulfstar 36 "Isabella"

We had a very interesting day with a rescue of Hobie Cat that was
with the group and had gotten grounded just before the end of the days
run. While getting them going the Coast Guard came up and boarded us
for an "inspection"...I really think they just wanted to look at the
boat as the inspection was rather cursory...especially after we
revealed that Joe was a retired Navy Master Chief.

http://www.texas200.com/images/boats/bob_johnson.jpg
Might not be this boat - there is a Hobie 18 as well

Anyway, If anyone is interested, I have several hundred pictures of
the various boats an anyone that wants a picture of their boat should
contact me with a description that I can use to recognize the boat and
I will email them a few pictures in 8 MByte resolution of their boat
underway. The only boat that I know I dont have a picture of ...he
was too fast...was the one from South Carolina, but since he builds
boats for others he must have many pictures of his creations. I have
pictures of all three PDRs.I have asked about the pics.

Interesting that the homebuilt PDRs are not having problems but the Hobie has. Maybe it was just going too fast for them to avoid the shallows - looking at the water pics from Google Earth (link above) it looks like there are lots of shallow spots.

Best wishes
Michael Storer

If you want to keep more up to date than this you can see the Duckworks race site
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/08/gatherings/tx200/index.htm
or the PDRacer main site forum in the USA - look for items labelled Texas200.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pdracer/messages

Boatmik

11th June 2008, 10:35 PM

Texas200 from Sandra at Duckworks.

June 10, 2008 -- update
Well! The group is safely ensconced at the Padre Island Yacht Club, courtesy of the group there. They have been variously ferried to Snoopy's for seafood and Scoopy's for ice cream, and they have had access to the showers and just generally been shown great generosity and charm. Thank you to all those who made them welcome!!!
I left my notes from earlier at home--Chuck read me off a list of all the boats in attendance, and I will list those in the morning. Wind has been their friend--speeding them down the Laguna Madre. I am also told that the Mikesboat is sailing wonderfully, and that Bill Moffitt and his son are fearless.

http://www.texas200.com/images/boats/bill_moffit.jpg
Bill Moffitt's boat six months ago.
Kellan's position: (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=27.6008,-97.2496&ie=UTF8&z=12&om=1)
Latitude:27.6008
Longitude:-97.2496
Nearest Location: Flour Bluff, United States
Distance: 9 km(s)
Time:06/10/2008 21:10:27 (GMT)

If you want to keep more up to date than this you can see the Duckworks race site
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/08/gatherings/tx200/index.htm
or the PDRacer main site forum in the USA - look for items labelled Texas200.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pdracer/messages

coogzilla

12th June 2008, 05:04 AM

G'day MIK
US folk's seem to like your boat design's Cool huh?

Regard's Coogs

Boatmik

12th June 2008, 10:23 AM

Howdy Coogs,

I think they do - particularly the PDR, the Goat and the Eureka.

But none of the boats mentioned in the posts above are my designs - however over the past year I have been very active in the US PDRacer scene too. They are a remarkable bunch of experimenters and do lots of great and almost crazy things.

But over the same period I have seen their boats improve hand over fist - many have used OZ PDR ideas mixed in with their own thinking to ... "create hybrid vigour"

Sail areas are up almost 15 square feet from two years ago. Hulls have an average weight that is probably about 50lbs less, boats are better at recovering from capsize, the problems of hulls twisting and "oilcanning" have largely disappeared.

Their boats have improved their performance markedly as sail and mast design, centreboard and rudder design and hull structures have improved.

I'd still be betting the OZ is the quickest of the bunch by a long way in some conditions but as you can see from the stories above ... the PDR is quite a capable little boat (within reason) and can provide quite an adventure if one has a bit of imagination.

Best wishes
Michael Storer

Boatmik

12th June 2008, 11:07 PM

The saga of the PDRs and others doing the 200 mile longshore event along the texas coast.

Managed to get some photos from yesterday from Jim Isbell who retains copyright but is allowing use here - thanks Jim!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3182/2572133433_2e0214135b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3059/2572133221_a4e4518e0a.jpg

Texas 200 from Sandra at Duckworks

June 11, 2008:

No reports this morning, but I am guessing everyone had a good night's sleep after a good meal the night before.

Here is at least a partial list of all the different boats--only a few names to go with them at this point:

1 Fugu (Kellan)
3 PD Racers
1 Potter 15
1 Bolger Bobcat (Chilek)
1 Piccup Pram
1 Chrysler Lone Star 16'
2 Potter 17's
2 Hobie 18's
1 20' sloop?
1 Coresound 17
1 John's Sharpie trimaran (Charlie and Laura)
Proa (Kevin O'Neill)
Boston Whaler sailboat
EC 22--Southern Skimmer, Graham Byrne
32' Motor trawler
1 Sea Pearl
the Caprice
Mikesboat
2 Shearwaters (by Bolger)
1 Princess 22
1 Coresound 19
1 Martha Jane (by Bolger)

Chuck says the fellow with the Martha Jane bought it on ebay 2 weeks ago! More boats will be joining them today and tomorrow. Our Ladybug, skippered by Roger Harlow and also Bob Shipman and Bob Williams will be coming in with one of Bob S's boats. The are heading through Corpus Christi Bay today and by more than one route will end up north of Rockport looking for a sandy spot to anchor for the night. They were going to stop at Dead Man's Island, but it is pretty exposed, so last night I looked on Google Earth and found a spot that might work, and they will check it out today.

No position from Kellan--too early--they will just be heading out.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3091/2572133125_b1c812974c.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2275/2572133023_dab8b8bc2d.jpg

If you want to keep more up to date than this you can see the Duckworks race site
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/08/gatherings/tx200/index.htm
or the PDRacer main site forum in the USA - look for items labelled Texas200.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pdracer/messages

Boatmik

12th June 2008, 11:30 PM

Texas200 from Sandra at Duckworks

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3007/2572957644_aab4779684.jpg

the calm.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3012/2572957562_e7229108aa.jpg

June 11, 2008, 2:30 PM/CST:
Kellan's position: (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=27.8161,-97.1352&ie=UTF8&z=12&om=1)
Latitude:27.8161
Longitude:-97.1352
Nearest Location: Mustang Beach, United States
Distance: 5 km(s)
Time:06/11/2008 16:45:13 (GMT)
I know where this is! This is where we lost our first little Mouse boat (Sandra is telling a story from before - not the race). We had camped by Shamrock Island and the next morning we headed for Port Aransas and one minute the Mouse boat was there and the next time we looked back it was GONE. And Chuck always tells me I need to learn to tie better knots--that was one of his. We searched for an hour or two, but it was so small and the area so big, we finally gave up. This was also the time we got water in our gas and the motor quit in the channel going down to Port A, and the wind and the tide were against us and we had to get a tow into docks. Pretty embarrassing. Never save old gas!!!

Anyway, I heard from Chuck very briefly at noon--they were going across the ship channel at Port A, always exciting especially if a ferry heads your way or if the ever present porpoises decide to check you out. He just wanted to let me know that everyone was still alive. He said the Millers (whose boat capsized on the first day), had decided to call it quits--I guess they lost some gear when they went over. He promised to call later with more.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3123/2572957504_dd871890cc.jpg
One of the intrepid PDRacers

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3106/2572957430_4f934e422b.jpg
wind is picking up. Remember these boats are quite heavily laden with water food and emergency equipment.

If you want to keep more up to date than this you can see the Duckworks race site
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/08/gatherings/tx200/index.htm
or the PDRacer main site forum in the USA - look for items labelled Texas200.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pdracer/messages

Boatmik

12th June 2008, 11:30 PM

Here we go again ...

From Jim Isbell (who has also provided these photos taken yesterday - they are copyrighted but I have permission to put them here)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3275/2572133691_26f96c1b8b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3255/2572958176_2bfd1a3d8d.jpg

I just got the weather report for today. On Corpus Christi
Bay....which they were crossing today...., we had winds of 50 mph and
gusts to 55 MPH!!!!

Jim Isbell
"If you are not living on the edge, well then,
you are just taking up too much space."

I don't think it was quite that strong around the edges of Corpus Christie Bay but it sounds like it wasn't an easy day for them

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2348/2572958092_5688244532.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3182/2572133433_2e0214135b.jpg

From Andrew Linn via Jeremy Nodsworth

I got a call about an hour ago from Andrew. (he is in one of the PDRs)

His words (as close as I can remember them) were "Jason and I tried to
quit today. We really tried. John left out before we did and we'd
had it. Then, Jason and I ended up taking a path only Puddle Ducks
could ... (something involving an 8ft bridge) and we caught up to
John!... We're still in it!!"

He was tired, it sounded like a pretty long grueling day. His
gooseneck broke, but he's lashed it together with rope. He mentioned
that there had been some ferocious wind last night.

His max speed today was 5.3 knots.
His avg speed today was 3.1 knots.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3162/2572133349_7b319a6ebd.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3046/2572133277_5f17b5d68c.jpg

If you want to keep more up to date than this you can see the Duckworks race site
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/08/gatherings/tx200/index.htm
or the PDRacer main site forum in the USA - look for items labelled Texas200.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pdracer/messages

Cliff Rogers

13th June 2008, 12:11 AM

Interesting mix of rigs on the shoe box boats.

Boatmik

13th June 2008, 12:21 AM

I just had a email chat with Sandra of Duckworks directly - this is what she told me.

The info looks great, and Chuck will be able to add tidbits from the 200--I
guess everyone there is pretty much in awe of the guys in the PD
Racers--they have had some big wind and those guys have gotten pretty beat up at times, but they have kept going.

One of them got stuck on a mud bank
yesterday afternoon and had to unload his PDR, drag the boat back out into
deeper water and then carry all his stuff back out to it.

He got to camp about dusk, and Chuck said he was really exhausted.

I heard from Jim Michalak after his messabout--he said he was just glad no
one got hurt with the crazy weather.

Boatmik

13th June 2008, 11:06 AM

How Dumb am I,

This thread is generating lots of traffic and I haven't mentioned the reason why it is here. The locals know!

The Story is America ... but Australia has its own growing fleet of PDRacers - the little 8ft (2.4m) boats that are doing the 200 mile trip.

The point of the PDR is that it is a capable boat of good performance that costs the same as about 22 pizzas (if you are good at scrounging wood). Fun enough for experienced adults, light enough for kids, sails nicely with two adults aboard. Plans are the same price as a good family sized pizza.

You can see links here just a little to the left of where you are standing now (a sampling)
Building the first OZ PDRacers (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=28107)
PDRacers in Africa (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=69870)
PDRacer being currently built in deepest darkest Adelaide (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=70173)
Videos of PDRs and others (http://www.storerboatplans.com/video.html)

And of course many more links in the relevant subforum.
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/forumdisplay.php?f=169

Boatmik

13th June 2008, 11:23 AM

Texas 200 from Sandra at Duckworks

Did she say "Alligators and Stingrays?"

I've been sent more pictures too!!! But I will put them up later

June 12, 2008:

Have been told that the TX200 link is not in evidence on Duckworks--here is the URL for that website: www.texas200.com (http://www.texas200.com)

Kellan's location: (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=28.0533,-96.9466&ie=UTF8&z=12&om=1) DO YOU REALISE YOU CAN CLICK ON THESE LOCATION LINKS?
They left their boats in the water last night
Latitude:28.0533
Longitude:-96.9466
Nearest Location:not known
Distance:not known
Time:06/11/2008 23:58:19 (GMT)

I called Chuck at 7 this morning--I figured he would be up and about. The map with Kellan's location will show where they spent the night. Not a sandy beach the way it looked on Google maps, but oyster shell--way better than mud.

Jason Nabors was the last one in last night--He got his PDR stuck on a mud flat and had to unload everything, then drag his boat back to deep water, tie it up and carry everything back to the boat. Chuck said he looked pretty wasted when he pulled in about dusk. Speaking of PDR's, everyone says that the 3 PDR participants (John Wright, Jason Nabors and Andrew Linn) are the bravest ones of the bunch in their tiny little boats, considering the wind and waves which have not been light.

They were getting ready to leave for the old State Park--2 ways to get there. One is to go back to the ICW and up to the channel that goes down to the park. The boats with less freeboard will go that way. Chuck and Mike and Kellan were planning to take the back way in--navigate a few shallow areas, etc.

Just up from where they are is the channel out to Cedar Bayou, a really nice spot. There used to be an opening out into the Gulf there--not really wide or deep enough for boats, but a spot that wade-fishermen frequented. It is no longer open, but if you go out there, the Gulf beach is just a few steps away from the Laguna Madre side. It is a nice deserted beach--no roads out there, so no cars. Lots of beach trash/treasure to wander through. Last time we were there, we had to walk the boat the last little bit, always keeping both eyes open for alligators and sting rays--we have seen both there. If you want to keep more up to date than this you can see the Duckworks race site
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/08/...x200/index.htm (http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/08/gatherings/tx200/index.htm)
or the PDRacer main site forum in the USA - look for items labelled Texas200.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pdracer/messages

Boatmik

13th June 2008, 02:14 PM

Texas 200 from Andrew Linn via Jeremy Nodsworth

BREAKDOWN BUT STILL GOING

This is a recap of what happened yesterday from a PDRacer perspective.

I think the map reference is wrong - so I worked it out on googlemaps. I think they are on the same latitude that they gave, which probably caused them to end up on Matogordo Island. (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=28.0533,-96.9466&ie=UTF8&z=12&om=1)

Images are again copyright Jim Isbell (thanks again Jim!!!)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3125/2574699910_f6427fe67c.jpg

From Andrew,

today was quite rough "a helluva day" in his words.

They got to the point and Andrew and Jason couldn't make it, John turned around to keep the ducks together!

Andrew was being blown to the side, which apparently was bad... Barges were traversing the same way! Jason and John sailed over and Jason engineered a leeboard Out On The Water! After that, Andrew was moving!!!

They are still in the ICW and are planning to sail till dark then camp together.

Other highlights were that Jason's clew broke, but the Macgyver Of The Ducks was able to repair and continue.

Their gps position was 2821.735 x 09634.936.

Thus concludes tonight's update. They are all looking forward to arriving at
Magnolia Beach tommorrow.

-j

PAR

14th June 2008, 04:00 AM

Michael, if you install some foils on your PDR, you should break into double digits pretty easily, without having to venture into gale force winds. How about a single, fixed angle of attack forward foil, just to have fun dancing of her transom? I'd suggest about 3 degree angle of attack to start, on a symmetrical 63 series section.

Boatmik

14th June 2008, 10:12 AM

Paul, you are a very BAAAAAD man!

I did think of the same, but the original PDR rules - there are only 5 of them - prohibit any foil with a horizontal component.

I was pretty keen to put a horizontal wing on the rudder - before I realised the rule was there.

The narrow skiff Moths spent quite a lot of time sailing round with T-foil rudders before Ian Ward showed that you could put one on the centreboard too and still balance.

http://www.int-moth.org.uk/Photos/Worlds07/Alexandra/IMG_0542.jpg

Which they do now - very routinely.

The Moths before they were fully foiling had hulls 11ft x 1ft and it could be said that nosediving was a bit of a problem. The T-foil rudder solved that and also prevented the stern from squatting when the crew went back to stop the nose going in as conditions got rough.

For the PDRs ... it is a no-go. Hell - it would be fun. Though I am not completely convinced that the PDR would get to the lift off speed required if someone had a crack with a bifoil setup.

Cheers
MIK

PAR

14th June 2008, 11:40 AM

The one that must be obeyed has been saying that for years.

Okay, what constitutes a "horizontal component"? There's got to be a way around this and if you can provide enough lift, you can fly a full size Spray replica.

What about a couple of oar blades that happen to mistakenly get jammed into an imperfection in the hull's chine. It would be handy if the imperfections were symmetrical on each side wouldn't it.

If anything from 0 to 45 degrees is considered a horizontal element, then I'd suggest a 46 degree foil, one for each side maybe.

A canted (because of heel or attachment to the hull) leeboard or dagger could be considered off the vertical element, so what's the point of no return?

Possibly a stealth setup, that looked like a conventional rudder or board (in the up position), but folded open once deployed to reveal a T.

Maybe you need to put one on, just to show what could be done if the rules permitted them on concrete mixing tubs.

Boatmik

14th June 2008, 01:29 PM

Howdy PAR,

Scratch the reformed racer and just underneath is the racer struggling to get out!!!!

I have the same affliction so can recognise it very easily.

For our OZ rules subset (allowed under the international PDR rules) I have written a strong preamble that any feature that is not compatible with the aims of the class are able to be banned with complete retrospectivity.

Mainly to save the class from the likes of you.
(and me)
(and the co-developer of the OZ PDR the Biting Midge)

So it will be possible to get boats on the water for trivial amounts of money for all eternity rather than them becoming a haven for Harken Blocks and Foam composite construction like everything else.

We all know that they have to go to foam composite construction because straight fibreglass cannot compete with the performance of timber boats - primarily stiffness to weight.

MIK

Cliff Rogers

14th June 2008, 04:04 PM

...So it will be possible to get boats on the water for trivial amounts of money for all eternity rather than them becoming a haven for Harken Blocks and Foam composite construction like everything else.....
Yup this is the true spirit behind this little boat and besides... if you really wanted to go fast, you'd pick something that didn't look like a bent shoebox. :D

PAR

14th June 2008, 10:06 PM

The last rule (yep, I actually read them) states "no lifting foils permitted". Wouldn't everyone using a retracting appendage be in violation of this rule, when bashing to weather?

I say you should sneak a T board into the slot, early in the morning and launch in muddy water. Wait until everyone is around and see how much wetted surface you can remove from the equation, on a beam reach.

How about other contrivances, like vortex generators or oil bags (biodegradable of course) hanging off the forward transom? Supper wax, 10,000 ventalation holes drilled in the bottom. Can't a guy have some fun, maybe a hand pumped ventalator . . .

Cliff Rogers

15th June 2008, 01:25 AM

Find another class Par... these ducks are meant to waddle & paddle, not fly. :p

PS. What does supper wax taste like? :?

b.o.a.t.

15th June 2008, 04:08 AM

Find another class Par... these ducks are meant to waddle & paddle, not fly. :p

PS. What does supper wax taste like? :?

9kts = 18km/h.

I wish my bus could waddle/paddle home from the city that fast in the evening !!

Don't recall seeing any prohibition on spinnakers...

Boatmik

15th June 2008, 11:47 AM

Find another class Par... these ducks are meant to waddle & paddle, not fly. :p

PS. What does supper wax taste like? :?

Sounds like it tastes better than floor wax.

It is a bit interesting ... PAR is going through the same process Peter (biting midge) and I went through for about two days just before we bought some too cheap plywood.

The ducks were very different beasts a couple of years ago - lots of "popular mechanics type boatbuilding" - 1/2" ply and 2x2" framing. There were a number of people with more sophisticated boats, but they were in the background. For example PDR #2 by Ken Abrahams is a pretty sophisticated sailing machine.

But they were building boats in number and learning how to sail in number - unlike every other class in the universe. When I realised that this was the strength of the class - that's when I changed and the challenges became...

1/ To see how well such an ungainly shape could be made to sail without any of the stuff that PAR is thinking about now (and we were thinking about then). So we optimised it, but using the same materials (epoxy is the only thing that we did different in materials) but brought in all the lessons from fast dinghy building.

The feeling was that people who are starting out in sailing DESERVE the option of something that works as well as it can - out of the box (or out of the garage, in this case).

2/ The second was to actually use all the thinking that we had learned about getting round rules to protect the nature of the class - so people could actually keep improving the boats, but retaining the same materials and building skills set. What an interesting process that turned out to be! There is the same fun of trying to outwit rules, but then trying to frame rules that can't really be worked round.

Basically the problem of existing classes is that they couldn't see the environment they were creating which would result in the conventional race classes that probably cost 4 times more than they should in real terms, and as we have seen with the PDR - you can have one on the water for $350 if you can scrounge a bit compared to the $5000 for an Optimist, $7000 for a Sabot or $8000 for a Manly Junior.

All kid's boats that were designed to be cheap and simple. The PDR is a big kid's boat!!!

So Cliff - I reckon PAR is doing some processing like we did and is about to realise the potential of these little boats to make sailing grow big time.

It's not because of the boxy shape - but because they are cheap, are going to stay that way and have numbers on the ground.

I wonder what will be happening to the prices of conventional boats that suck both petrochemicals and high levels of energy in their structure.

They said on "Top Gear" the Bugatti Veyron is kind of poignant. It is the fastest and most sophisticated production car that will ever be built. It is being sold at a massive loss (I think 60% than the cost of manufacturing). That every "supercar" from now on will perform less well. (apart from a Shelby). The moral imperative of not wasting resources will see to that.

"FLAT out at 250mph, the Bugatti Veyron gets through almost two gallons of fuel a minute, but after 12 minutes and 48 miles will shut down and coast to a halt, the petrol tank bone dry. "
The Times Online - http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/features/article578393.ece

This is also probably the case with class racing boats. It's getting close to the end of the road for conventionally built ones (unless they work out ways of getting economical carbon fibre out of soybeans).

And it saddens me that, unlike the Veyron, so little has been achieved.

I'd estimate that all the expense of conventional classes that has crept in over the last 30 years has raised speeds by about 15 to 10% over the three decades. A few percent is all you need to win a national championship.

And doubly foolish is that you can indeed have the same level of competition if everyone uses a polytarp sail.

PAR

15th June 2008, 01:05 PM

I remember a discussion I had with Howard Chapelle, damn about 40 years ago on this very subject.

I was young and was actively kicking butt on the race course. He saw the rising costs of sailing over the last 50 years and thought the world was about to end for sailing, with no one able to afford a boat. I thought he was over reacting to the newest wave of inovation.

In many respects he was right. In his youth, everyone had a little boat, most locally built and they were considered "disposable" for the most part, used until their bottoms fell off and a new one was commissioned.

In my youth, the building craze after WW II, through the 60's and early 1970's was in full swing. The contraptions that people thought would float was astounding, most clad with polyester resin and cloth, which fell off in sheets in years to come. I even campaigned a self designed and built 18' racer and was promptly banned from the course after several races. Tip to self, don't off the blue bloods if you want to play in their games . . .

Sailing has always been a sport of nobility, though many classes of small craft have been available for the masses (likely to keep the peasants appeased). In spite of the smaller boats, costs have risen dramatically and I'm in full agreement with the PDR concept, but on the other hand, I don't want to go back to deadeyes, cotton sails and hemp rigging either.

I'm just starting a new project to build two identical 17' boats. They're ketches and the rigging costs are astounding, but the price to pay if they are to fair well against others of their type.

In the end, it's a combination of issues that have caused these costs to rise so much in the last 30 years. When Chappy had a new boat built, labor was cheap and materials amounted to a high percentage of the boat's total cost. When I was young, labor was rising, but it still wasn't the predominate cost of a build. Now with the advent of high tech materials and devices, material prices are rising again, but labor costs still easily out weigh the vast majority of a build's total bill.

Manufactures have tried to remove as much labor as they can from the build, using molds, resin injection, machine assembly of parts, but the skilled labor to build a boat is now very high. To recover the costs of costly materials and methods, manufactures have little choice. I'm in fact facing this, as I pass the building agreement back to the client this week. It's the most I've ever charged for a 17' open day boat, but I too have to cover costs.

Back to the PDR, every racer I know will try just about anything to get an "edge". I knew a guy once that raced stock cars. The rules said the cars had to roll over a set of scales at the beginning of each race. He filled his roll cage with sand, so he could make the required weight. During the race, he released sand at a specific rate, so that by race's end he was substantially lighter then when he started. He crashed one night and the trick was reveled and now all cars are weighed after the race too, but he won quite a few races, until they caught on and fixed the rule. It's the nature of all racers to seek an advantage. On the course I'm constantly looking at the guys around me to see who I can take advantage of. If you make a couple of lazy tacks, you can bet I'm going to climb all over your transom and get you into a duel on the next up wind leg.

In other words, I have no issue with poly tarp sails, but if I showed up in your backyard, you can rest assured, my poly tarp material would be lighter, possibly chemically treated to be less stretchy and after waxing the crap out of the bottom of the boat, I'd butter my bread with it, because it's not that bad once you get use to it.

Boatmik

15th June 2008, 02:22 PM

Cheers PAR,

Yes ... the polytarp wars have started! We kicked off with a $20 tarp that we got two sails out of. But now we have graduated to weight of polytarp that is more similar to sail cloth weight for the boat size - which doubles the price - so one sail is about $30 in cloth.

However ... I can't see them making a specialist racing polytarp just yet.

:-)

The economics of Professional boatbuilding are very different as you point out!

Michael

bitingmidge

15th June 2008, 02:39 PM

"FLAT out at 250mph, the Bugatti Veyron gets through almost two gallons of fuel a minute, but after 12 minutes and 48 miles will shut down and coast to a halt, the petrol tank bone dry. "

Perhaps one should note, that presently tyre technology will only allow 14 minutes of safety at 407 (the cars maximum speed) kph, which is how the tank capacity was derived!

Cheers,

P
:D

Boatmik

15th June 2008, 02:39 PM

By the way, PAR was lucky enough to meet Howard Chapelle.

(1901-1975) was curator of maritime history at the Smithsonian Institution, Washington, D.C.. In addition, he authored many books and articles books on maritime history and marine architecture.

He is one of the people who started to document American traditional boats and laid the foundation for a lot of the wooden boat renaissance that we all take advantage of.

American Small Sailing Craft (1951) is considered the classic among small-boat builders and historians. In it he documented many fast-vanishing working boats.

His other books include:

Yacht Designing and Planning (1936) W.W. Norton & Company, ISBN 0-393-03756-8

Boatbuilding: A Complete Handbook of Wooden Boat Construction (1941) W.W. Norton & Company Inc.

The History of American Sailing Ships

The History of the American Sailing Navy

The Search for Speed Under Sail: 1700-1855 (1967) W.W. Norton & Company, Inc.

The Baltimore Clipper

The American Fishing Schooners 1825-1935 ([1973]) W.W. Norton & Company Inc., ISBN 0-393-03123-3

Boatmik

15th June 2008, 02:44 PM

Perhaps one should note, that presently tyre technology will only allow 14 minutes of safety at 407 (the cars maximum speed) kph, which is how the tank capacity was derived!

Cheers,

P
:D

100 litres is the capacity. Just thought you would like to know. 4mpg (of the imperial kind)

Boatmik

15th June 2008, 02:57 PM

The Texas 200 - News from the Participants in the PDRacer

The end of the saga - I'm a couple of days behind on this.

From Sandra at Duckworks

Evening update: Phone service very spotty, I got maybe every 5th or 6th word from Chuck. The old State Park is out there.

Will relate what I have heard about the place--may or may not be accurate. It used to be a military base. If you hike around there, you can see all the old airstrips--now sprouting grass and providing nest sites for terns. The story we heard was that it became a spot where higher ranking officers could take their girlfriends and party. When it was decommissioned or whatever, it was donated to the State of Texas and became Matagorda State Park--accessible only by water. For some years, the state had a people ferry and would take folks out for the day or to camp overnight. Rangers in the park would ferry you over to the beach (2 or 3 miles) in the morning and come pick you up in the evening. There is an old lighthouse that has been restored (not sure if it was finished or not), and some bird and wildlife watching stands here and there. Lots of BIRDS--this is a major migratory fly through area. The last time we were there, we saw coyotes, jackrabbits, deer, and lots of other small creatures and of course, birds. We saw an alligator swimming just offshore. No rangers anymore, so presumably one is on ones own transportation-wise.

For a while, it looked as though the state would upgrade the old buildings, but that seemed to just fade away. The people ferry had a fire and you have to have your own boat to get out there. They built some outdoor showers, but I hear the water is no longer on. Hopefully, Chuck will check that out. It is a nice place, but HOT HOT HOT during the day in the summer and there are mosquitos at night, although Chuck tells me they have yet to see mosquitos this trip. Wonderful!

Just looked up the website for the park: http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/hunt/wma/find_a_wma/list/?id=48

This tells more about its official designation now.

Just talked with Chuck. Sailing for the state park turned out to be straight into the wind for the folks who came up the ICW, and some chose not to go there--they went to Port O'Connor or camped on the side of the channel (he said the PDR's did that). Chuck and Mike and Kellan took the shallow way through the little islands and channels and they are at the park along with 12 or so others. Still waiting for Kellan to show up, and they were expecting him to call for a tow anytime as FUGU does not sail into the wind well at all.

I leave first thing tomorrow for the coast, so this will be the last update from my end. This computer does not travel; it is desk-bound.

The Smallest Boats Speak - PDRacers Rule!

From Jeremy Nodsworth via phone

I just got a call from Andrew Linn that they've made it to Magnolia Beach.

First among their priorities was finding a place to shower. :)

I'm headed down to Magnolia Beach early in the morning and hope to see
many of you there.

jeremy

Looks like we will have some more info to come ... Andrew Linn makes foolish promises

Guys,

I finally got an internet connection and I wanted you all to know
Jason, John and I are OK and happy to have completed this event. I knew
it was going to be hard - but holy crap! We got the pounded out of
us.

I will be sending you all a day-by-day write-up, as well as a detailed
rundown on what I think will make this event more comfortble
(expedition class PDR suggestions.)

I have to say, we impressed 'em all. John Wright is a super human and
has my undying admiration and loyalty. Jason is a goddam hero andI feel
I have gained two new brothers. Forged in fire, guys, forged in fire.

Most boats had more comfort than the humble PDRacers.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3059/2574699582_5204d01842.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3125/2574699910_f6427fe67c.jpg

Boatmik

16th June 2008, 11:30 AM

Texas 200 debrief from the participants in the PDRacers

No Picnic for 8ft boats
Winds 20 to 25 knots most days

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3053/2582878798_9b0abc4837.jpg
The PDR3 - John Wright, Andrew Linn, Jason Nabors immediately after sailing into the finish.

First we have John Wright - who has a long sailing record in different boats

All,
A short impression of the (epic?) voyage.

It was a wild ride at times.
A little too much wind by 8 AM (20 knot+?).
A little mud at the first camp but shade under some trees.
A little brisk second day and a camp site at the Padre Island Yacht Club
with shower! and dinner at Snoopy's
A great sail across Corpus Christi Bay. The tallest waves but regular
and exhilarating. The three PD's took the Corpus Christi Bayou rout to
Aransas Bay and the run to a great shell beach anchorage at Long Reef at
Big Island.
Then a rough ride across San Antonio Bay that would toss our little boats
up and then fall out from under us. Jason was effusive about the ride
and compared it with bungie jumping.
Then the pleasant down hill broad reach to Magnolia Beach.

Now to dry out my stuff... More will follow from the PDR3.
johninbastrop

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3060/2582878270_bc4f91198d.jpg
Supporters - the PDR3 have been released! (Pics from Chuck at Duckworks)

From Jason Nabors - who is probably the most "out there" experimenter with the PDRs.

Well I got home about an hour ago and unloaded the gear.
Here is a summary of the events....

Day 1.
left campsite @ 6:00 or 7:00 am (can't quite remember)
High wind 20+,wind overpowered rudder and had to do most of the trip
under jib.I was traveling 5.0 to 5.8 with just a jib through the land
cut.Made camp just in time to see a porpoise going airborne next to
the campsite.Had spam singles for dinner.

day 2.
Left 6:00 am
Sailed ICW on a broad reach and saw many porpoises.
The swam beside and under my PDR.I literaly could have reached out
and touched them.I was joined by kellan who told me that he had
thought he had a blow out on the inflatable kayak but it was a
porpoise blowing out air right next to him.
Tried to make the yacht club entrance but it was dead to wind and
could not get in.Sailed down to Snoopys and had a couple of beers and
meet up with my wife and daughter.
They then returned me to the yacht club where I showered and plotted
the next days course.
Had Whataburger for dinner.

Day 3.
Woke up at 6:00 to @ 25+ winds.
Andrew and I were considering dropping out.We discussed it and said
we didn't come all this way to quit.I jumped in the Sea Flea with
andy and we sailed down to Snoopys to get my PDR.We then sailed down
the ICW to shamrock cove then to DEAD MANS REEF.
I got separated from the both of them and ened up stuck in the mud
for an hour or so.Made it to the campsite just in time to see the
sunset.
Had V8 for dinner.

Day 4.
Woke up at 6:00 am and sailed the ICW with John and Andrew.
We hit the entrance to San Antonio Bay just in time for the winds to
kick up to 20+.John tacked ahead as andrew and myself battled to get
to windward.We were unable to round the point to Army Hole and
continued to sail the ICW with john joining us.(Thank you for coming
back with us John).
We then entered San Antonio Bay on a beam reach with 25+ winds and
probably 3 to 4 foot swells.Made it to the other side and made camp
10 miles from Port Oconnor.
Had spam singles for dinner.

Day 5.
Woke up at 6:00 and sailed for the Port Oconnor jetty.
Andrew,John,and myself sailing in formation through the jetty, came
about and ran downwind for Magnolia Beach.
Hit the beach with a tearfull ending and let down the sails.
Had fried seafood platter and beer for dinner.
That about sums it up.
Oh ya,if anyone tries to beat this record I will hunt them down.:)
Sunburn and Spray

Still waiting on Mr Linn for his comments - he normally does some sort of web presentation so might take a little longer.

Best wishes
Michael Storer

Cybernaught

16th June 2008, 11:36 AM

I'm just amazed at how well the Ducks did in the Texas 200. They stayed out when bigger and more seaworthy (???) boats would have quit. Says a hell of a lot for the PDRs and more for the men who sailed them.
Talk about "grit"!

Someday someone, not me, will max out a PDR. Ultralight with wings, horizontal planes and all the other rule-breaking go-fast gadgets, just because they can.

Human nature being what it is, it's impossible for it not not happen.

CN

Boatmik

16th June 2008, 11:56 AM

Howdy Cybernaught,

Didn't the PDRs do well!!!! Averaging 40 miles a day is tricky in an 8ft boat.

As far as rules go ...

In other classes people work as closely to the limits of the rules as is possible - if they exceed the intent of the rules they do it by interpretation - and then may or may not be slapped down by the Measurement Committee.

There is one main set of rules for PDRacers - overriding international rules - only 5 rules.

The only thing that is banned out of your list are horizontal foils. The idea is that if someone builds an all carbon fibre PDR with a complex modern rig wings and a trapeze ... then they can go on the hunt for someone with a similar boat who wants to sail against them - I'd take them on in an OZ in light wind - no worries!!! I think they would get tangled up in all the complexity. I think I would have a shot in the strong stuff too.

In other words, in PDRdom there is no guarantee that if you build an advanced PDR that anyone will have to race against you - they can just form a subgroup with their own sets of rules.

So ... there is an option to make subgroups of rules - so long as they don't conflict with the international rules.

And that is how we created the OZ rules to choose the combination lightest and cheapest and simplest methods we could think of and protect boats using them - specifying plywood minimum thicknesses and polytarp sails with no seam shaping - for example.

Almost all the existing PDRs fit the OZ subgroup rules except for boats using second hand sails and those without enough buoyancy tankage (some of the early boats had none before they realised how tanks solve all the structural issues - the OZPDRs were largely responsible for popularising that and other approaches by bringing side tanks and much lighter ply than most into the equation).

That's why I put tanks in all my designs by the way. Designers that don't "get it" - who design a structure to be strong enough without tanks and then add tanks are wasteful of materials and labour - and their boats are much heavier.

We don't like second hand sails under the OZ subrules because - the less secondhand they are - the faster the boat will be. We can see where that process will end up. But for the general fleet it is a good way of getting boats on the water.

Best wishes
Michael.

Boatmik

16th June 2008, 02:00 PM

Texas 200 - aftermath!

Just ran into Jason Nabors - one of the PDR Three - on the net.

He was trying to chase up photos.

Thats fine.I wanted to see if it looked as frightening as it felt.That trip was
not for the faint of heart on some areas.I was told that these days were some of
the better ones as well.

And from Jim Isbell the photographer

Yes, these were not exactly windy days. The AVERAGE annual wind on
Corpus Christi Bay is 16 mph!! To get that high an average there are
a lot of days when winds of 40 mph with 55 mph gusts is normal. There
are a few says in the early spring and late fall when the winds lay,
but rarely below 5-10 mph.

Jason - gets the racing bug - far from relaxing our intrepid sailor - who has been something of an experimenter and laid back dude has decided that he likes racing ... Big Time. (at least as an adjunct to all his other PDR activities - the man is a powerhouse - I'd be looking for a sleep if I was him, but ...

From what I understand.(well to my understanding) I have been offered leadership
of the San Antonio area which I have accepted.I am going to scout woodlawn lake and a couple others.

I am also going to start hosting some races.I want to try to get
houston,austin,dallas,san antonio,and all points in between, racers together at
a central lake somewhere close to all of us or atleast in reasonable driving
distance.Make it a race/messabout/campout/whatever.

I don't want to limit it to just PDRs either.I believe by letting other boat types into our strange little world we will actually convince others to join our ranks.I know sounds cultish.But we do sort of have a cult following with the exception of the black NIKEs and poison koolaid.None of that in our group please.I would love suggestions and people to throw ideas in.

Any lake ideas would be great.Waco has an ok lake I also am not against
driving to austin or even magnolia beach for a weekend.I would like to get a
consistent once a month race/messabout going.Show up if you can if not well,
there will be another one.

I have been in this group for some time now well since hull # 31 and have only
raced 6 or 7 times.Thats rediculous! So that being said I am going to check my
schedule and start hosting races.

I will get back to yall about the scheduling and hopefully we can come to an
agreement on a central lake so we can all get racing the fast little boxes.
sunburn and spray

Jason Nabors

Best wishes
Michael Storer