had any success with bending green bloodwood ?

[JDarvall]

just playing with the idea. Wondering how well it bends.

[joe greiner]

Hmmmm. Bending plus woodturning. This should be interesting.:rolleyes:

Joe

[Manuka Jock]

bend it first , or turn it first ?
the work in progress is gonna be interesting :D

[JDarvall]

I didn't put in the right catagory eh. sorry.

I'm going to bend it first, then turn it. :rolleyes:

nobody had any experience with bending bloodwood ?

[JDarvall]

guess not. :oo: fat lot of help you blokes are eh. eh eh. :D

[Manuka Jock]

Mate , I don't even know what bloodwood looks like :-
But I'm happy to learn , from you and your 'work in progress' pics :D

[JDarvall]

:D sounds like you just want to see a pic of a ???? up. Piece of wood being thrown accross the room or something like.

I've been turning these thin spindles out of bloodwood....and I'm thinking of steam bending them AFTER with a mild curve, and just trying to minimize the amount of kindling I'm going to no doubt create while experiementing.

As I've read bloodwoods can splinter a bit. But it turns nice green, and I've got access to a lot of it cheap you see.

[joe greiner]

OK. All kidding aside, I couldn't find bloodwood with both hands on a bright sunlit day. But, in general, most wood responds well to boiling (remember the E-puzzle from a while back?). For making something like a bracelet or "bangle," bending could produce a more robust structure, because of grain alignment. Bending after turning could be hard to achieve a good splice. Bending before turning might be easier. I'd take a long piece of square or rectangular stock, and boil the hell out of it (same as making holy water according to my Grandpa). Wrap the softened stick into a spiral around a cylindrical form, with substantial overlap and generous end tangents - could even use several coils. Cut a matching diagonal whatchamacallit in two adjacent coils, and wrench the piece into a donut. Clamp in that position until it dries, then glue. You'll probably have to make a special chuck (or two) to do the final turning.

Joe

[JDarvall]

boiling eh. now that you mention it I do remember that E puzzle.

I'm making windsor chair spindles though.....there ruffly 33" long....taper from 1/2" up to about 5/8" then taper back down again to 3/8". I've been turning them on the lathe. But there straight. I thought it be nicer if I could then bend them with a gentle curve back and forth to match the back of the person thats sitting in the chair. uno, how chairs have that shape.

I was going to attempt steam bending them to take that shape, but now that you mention boiling, maybe I should give that a go too.

[weisyboy]

bloodwood will not bend verry well at all. unless cut verry thin thin enough to see threw it is too brittle. if ya wanna bend red wood try red cedar.

[hughie]

Bloodwood bending, most timber will bend to some extent. In boating building its down by steaming. The length of time for steaming depends on several things ie type of timber ,thickness, degree of bending etc.

The thicker the greater time required for steaming. One of the simplest methods I have used is to pick up some industrial galvanised down pipe or similar. The length would be just a little longer than your piece of timber, say 100-150mm.

Soldier a right angle piece to one end. Big enough to hold 10-15 litres or so of water. Lay the pipe on a frame at around 30' with the right angle end pointing to the ground. Drill a small hole in the top of the angle say 12mm. This is to top up the water if needs be, you will need to make a bung for the hole.

Slide the timber in so its just inside the top and your still able to reach it. Place a fire/heater under the angle to heat the timber. I used a kerosene blow lamp. When it starts to boil wrap the open end in a couple of sacks.

As it steams along you want to every half hour or so rotate the timber in the pipe, but its not essential.

When add water dribble very hot water in slowly to try and maintain the boil. If you want you can wrap more sacks along the length for insulation.

It worked for me on re-ribbing and bending deck frames on an 1930's yacht many years ago.

[Manuka Jock]

Chair making huh . I have been filling in time at a mate's furniture workshop this past week or two.
He specializes in oak tables , and occasionally makes a set of chairs to match .
I have been thinking of having a crack at turning one out myself so
I'll keep an eye on this thread :)

[JDarvall]

Ta. I had a go at steam bending, but failed. All sorts of theorys why....not enough heat etc. blue gum I think I used. so thats probably a factor too.

These are the kind of chairs I'm building at the moment. See how the spindles are dead straight. Feel the chair could be more comfortable with the spindles curving like I've tried to draw there ( red line)......do you reakon bloodwood could be made to bend like that ?

Hoping to avoid steaming altogether. bit discouraged by the stuffups. Seemed a bit too fiddly and unreliable too, but thats probably just my lack of experience in bending. Hoping that if the bloodwoods wet enough I could perswade it enough with just a heat gun.

[weisyboy]

there is no way youll do that to bloodwood. i dout it even if its steamed.

[JDarvall]

Thanks Carl. Saved me some time.

[weisyboy]

bloodwood is just to hard and brittle to bend a peice 10mm thick will only bend by about 3mm before snaping. iv tried to make chair backslats from it.

[JDarvall]

I'll have to just use it for legs and stretchers then.

so what could I bend to that shape you think. Something common around here preferably......I've got a lot of vitex. Thinking that maybe worth a go.

I don't want to use cedar.....thinking it be too weak. costly too.

It doesn't matter about appearance so much since their painted....as long as its hardy enough and can bend. uno.

[Manuka Jock]

Jake , this may be of help .



Building on the Windsor Tradition

Each chair that leaves my shop is hand made by me from the selection of the logs to the rubbing down of the finish. I work the wood while it is still green and soft, enabling me to work almost completely with hand tools. Parts are hand split (not sawn) from the log, carefully shaved and steam bent before being fit and assembled.
The final product reflects 250 years of craftsmen exploring and building on the Windsor technology and aesthetics.
As did my predecessors, I use a variety of woods in each chair. Wood is chosen for its unique characteristics; maple or cherry for crisp turnings, white oak for strong bends, hickory for light flexible spindles and white pine or butternut for carvable, comfortable seats.
All of the joints are hand fit with bone dry tenons that swell in their mortises forming a perfect joint that will survive seasonal movement for generations. ""

http://www.petergalbertchairmaker.com/


Jock

[JDarvall]

Ta Jock.

Pete and I talk some. Clever man. He's got a new caliper device that should do very well. I'm looking forward to owning my own in metric. everythings imperial over there.

The problems that timbers over here arn't traditional. I don't think he'd know which timbers I could use here in Australia. I'll just have to experiment until something works. Theirs one timber in the shed I turned up recently and it flexed really nicely. felt more than strong enough. But I don't know what it is ! frustrating. Don't know where it came from.

[joe greiner]

Jake, before you chase your tail too far with this, it might be a good idea to verify your expectation of it being more comfortable. Have you "tried on" any chairs with such curved spindles? As well as a few other folks of different sizes? Even if so, you might not want it to be so comfortable as to compromise stability. Heaven forbid that the sitter lean back too far and end up ???? over tin cup. A mockup could be tested using bent steel rods instead of the bent wood.

Joe

[Manuka Jock]

Kicking the rear legs back further , beyond the line of the bow could prevent tip over.

Do Windsor chairs usually have curved spindles ?

[JDarvall]

yep. Will check all that. I have to learn how to bend wood well anyway.

Windsors don't normally have curved spindles. no. And the chairs pretty comfortable to sit in already. Just when I sit in it, I can feel a gap there in the small of my back....feels like something to improve on. And asthetically would look better too I feel. And there's a lot of chairs out there already with that shape.

[JDarvall]

Don't know if there's much interest in it, but I finally got a chance to try steam bending green bloodwood today. ruff tapering spindle. about 22mm at its thickist. about 700 long....and no problems. about a 60mm bend. So , the stuff seems good afterall. unless I just got lucky.

[texx]

YouTube - Wood Steam bending

[flynnsart]

Nice curve, whats if going to be for?

Boy what a dumb question! Blonde moment. Came to this thread from ispy and only saw the second last post.

Donna

[JDarvall]

ta.

I do that all the time Donna. :D

Nice bunch of blokes in that video. I got something similar except my tubes high pressure pipe....kettles closer which I thought was important. wider pipe from the kettle. and got a trickle feed system going so it never runs out of water. it works is the main thing.

[Hardenfast]

Doesn't look as technical as I somehow thought it would, Jake. However, I never had any doubts that you'd make it work.


This topic fascinates me, so a little more info if you could. For example:

Do you need to pre-heat the pipe/vessel?
How long do you leave it to steam for?
Does it build up pressure in the vessel, or does the steam have exit points?
Do you bend it or hold it in some sort of jig to hold the required shape?
Assuming the piece is steaming hot when removed, how do you handle it?
Is there much "spring-back" after releasing?
Do you have any idea what you're doing? :roll:
Watching with interest.

Wayne

[JDarvall]

How ya going Wayne.

I'm kinda new to steam bending mate. I've only done a few spindles so far.



Do you need to pre-heat the pipe/vessel?

sposed to get it temperature first. got a skewer type thermeter sticking in the ends. Once it hits a 100 I assume its ready



How long do you leave it to steam for?

they say.....1 hour for each inch of thickness. for my about 20mil spindle....thats about 20mins I guess.



Does it build up pressure in the vessel, or does the steam have exit points?

it just comes out a bit of the ends.



Do you bend it or hold it in some sort of jig to hold the required shape?
Assuming the piece is steaming hot when removed, how do you handle it?

just put gloves on and after my egg timer goes off, I fish it out (trying not to burn my arms) and dash for the mould......clamp one end, then bend it over slowly clamping as I go. Got to do it quickly before it cools.



Is there much "spring-back" after releasing?

From what I've read,,,,and from the bends I've done so far as well, the greater the bend the less springback....so if there's just a little bend it tends to spring back a lot.



Do you have any idea what you're doing? :roll:

not really :D...just playing it by ear. Its quite exciting though, cause I'm just starting to get good results.

The thermoeter was important, because I can monitor heat....heats everything. If I can't work out how hot it is, I can't fix problems.


I suspect I'm getting good results because of the high pressure pipe, and the fast boil kettle.

Interesting thing I noticed was, if I kept the kettles water level too low the heat inside the tube would stay below 100....but as soon as I got it full it jump to 128 :? don't ask me why.

[Hardenfast]

Very interesting Jake, and no doubt exciting to experience the results first hand. Thanks for the info.

After watching the little YouTube video above I searched YouTube for any more vids on the topic of steam bending wood. There's actually a fair few there, some of which are quite good.

Fascinating topic. I look forward the ongoing adventures of Jake the Steamer.

By the way, in one of the other vids they were using a wall paper steamer for the process, which seemed to create a continuous, steady flow of steam. Maybe worth a thought.

[JDarvall]

By the way, in one of the other vids they were using a wall paper steamer for the process, which seemed to create a continuous, steady flow of steam. Maybe worth a thought.

yeah probably. been told that a bit. One will turn up one day when I've got a bit more dough.

I'm thinking it may not necessarily be better , only because I'm already getting around 130 degree's in the tube, , and I have a feeling those steamers may not generate as much heat. not sure.

One thing be great with the wallpaper steamer definetly, is not having to worry about running out of water. I've had to rig a trickle system with mine thats a bit fiddly.

anyway, I'll try and post pictures when I can. I want to bend a chair arm next.

talk to you latter. :)