Incra Ultralite - what do ewes reckon?

[*Kev]

G'day all,
I was at the PWS stand at the Sydney show looking at the Incra stuff and became very interested in the Incra Ultralite set-up.

After searching the forum for previous threads I didn't learn a great deal about it or read many forumites experiences with it.

I would be using it initially as dovetail/finger joint jig and router table fence for box making etc.

Can anyone give me advice as to whether the Ultralite jig is limited to material size, etc, or have any other limitations that are particularly frustrating?

Or, should I go for the Gifkins or Leigh or something else.

Thanks, Kev

[markharrison]

You know, I was thinking about this the other day. I have in the past considered buying an Incra jig for my router table but the cost of these things are just more than I am willing to pay.

The idea I had was to buy a Wixey digital fence readout (on sale at Woodcraft for US$100 (http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=20147) at the moment) to do the measurement and adapt a fence with a rack and pinion (think like a high end jointer fence but with smaller gear teeth).

The Incra system still has advantages because of the templates but we're not talking rocket science here. It's simple arithmetic.

Anyway, that's my idea. I haven't done it yet but feel free to use it.

[damian]

I've been doing some reading on incra and have bought a LS25 ultra, but I didn't buy locally. Mine hasn't arrived yet.

1. I'm a metalworker by trade and couldn't build it for the price.

2. The ultralight is limited to 12" travel so too small for what I do.

3. As a dovetail/finger joint jig it's slower than the dedicated machines, but it's a super fence so will do stuff a leigh/giffkins etc won't.

I've designed a bench that will take my saw on one side and router on the other. The LS will lay over one tool when controlling the job on the other, so I'm reducing the overhang that is necessary with the incra and jointech type fences. The table will be about 1300 X 700. You could obviously go smaller with an ultralight. As always it depends on what you want. If you just want a dovetail/fingerjoint machine buy something else. If you want a precision fence that can also do those joints then an ultralight would be a nice thing provided your work is smaller than 12". It's also a relatively cheap way to try the incra system. If you buy the origional system as far as I know it doesn't have micrometer adjustment, so your limited to the racks. That migt be ok for you but it's not that much cheaper than the ultralight and I would find that limiting. It also only has 8" travel.

It's taken me a long time to get my head around this stuff. The whole fit and feel approach to wood doesn't sit well with me because I don't have any feel for it yet. With metal work you measure stuff precisely and then set your machine to cut withing a thou. The incra is more like that, you dial up what you want and it offsets for you. It is not correct to say it's more accurate than a stick and 2 G clamps, but it takes less skill and a lot less time/fiddling to achieve that accuracy.

I strongly suggest you go to incra.com and watch the product videos. You'll get a feel for the potential and the limitations.

Regarding the wixey, it might tell you where your fence is but it won't set it for you. I can get $20 digital calipers to tell me exactly where my fence is, with a bit of creativity, regardless of how far it is from the cutter, but getting the fence locked down in exactly the right spot quickly and repeatably is the point of the incra/jointech/etc. The wixey does a good job, but it doesn't do the same job as the incra. The incra doesn't do the same job as a giffkinsleigh/etc.

[robbo_57]

Kev,

I just upgraded to the Ultralite from the Original Jig, and it was well worth it. As Damian points out, there are limitations with Incra, but there are limitations with the others you mentioned too. They are all at a similar price point now (if you buy in Australia), but with the Ultralite you get a complete fence system for your router table. For box making etc. the 12 1/2" capacity shouldn't limit you too much, and an extra $50 for the template library will give you countless variety (and a steep, but worth it, learning curve).

[Ashes]

Kev,
good question and I also have been looking at the Incra's for a little while. I haven't actually seen in the flesh or operating yet so just at the online research/review stage at the moment. I might have to make a trip out to the topic sponsor...

As I'm only a hobby wood worker, the ultralite is closer to my budget aspirations compared with the ultra models and appears more versatile. Obviously for volume work on larger pieces the leigh type jigs are probably the way to go evidenced by their use by those making money building furniture.

Initally I was focussed on the most expensive kit... the 24" Ultra LS, with wonderfence which seems to do everything but the more I look, realistically I'm never going to use the size. The wonder fence and extension looks useful if you are doing a lot of edge routing (eg sliding dovetails) on large pieces.

My question as well is...what can't I do on the Ultralite compared to its big brothers?

[damian]

There are 2 reasons I went for the LS. Both relate to the fact I do a lot of saw work.

1. The extra throat is obviously handy. (I also like BIG drawers)

2. The wonder fence does something I think will be really handy. It has sliding tapers for offset. I do quite a lot of jointing on the table saw. Putting a sacrificial fence on the wonder fence (MDF) and using the sliding offset means I should be able to do nice quick setups for that.

If you were sticking one only on a router and the 12.5" doesn't look like a problem I'd say the lite has to be a good thing. Also remember you don't have to fix it permanently. If you do need more throat you can space the positioner away from your cutter (saw or router) and go from there. The real limitation is if your doing a series of stepped cuts over more than 12", rather than those cuts being more than 12" from the edge, if you see what I mean.

Also as an extra comment on the wixey above. It's easy enough to make a lead screw fence. It's even doable to put a quick movement system on it, like the "rack" on the incra. What is hard is to make a quick engage system that does not move the fence as you lock it. Easy in theory, but try to get one to work perfectly. I'm sure it's doable but for the hours you'd put into it and the fiddling a few hundred $ on an incra and all the problems are ready solved. It's not just the positioner either. making a nice 90 degree attachment that slides but has little play...all that "stuff". If your shy a project go for it, but I think it'll be a bit of work...2c

_57: How do you find the time to increment for each cut doing finger/dovetails ? Are there other things you don't like about it or find inferior to a dovetail jig ? I would have thought the difference in hassle would mostly be incrementing the fence vs dropping your router into the next slot on the dovetail jig ? or are there other issues ?

The point is somewhat moot for me since I've already bought it and I wanted the other functionality, but not having used a dovetail jig I'm curious how they stack up. My fence should arrive today or this week, in theory...:o

unless the post has lost it...:(

[robbo_57]

Damian,

The key is to follow the manual and ensure the setup is right for the bit, template, and stock thickness you are using, particularly for through dovetails. It's a bit of a chore when you first use it, and you'll need the manual nearby, but it becomes second nature after a few attempts.

After you've worked out the correct bit height, found the centre of the board, and lined up the template with the cursor, it's just a matter of making a cut and then moving the fence to line up the next cut in the series under the cursor. The original jig left a bit of room for error here, but the Ultras and LS make it easy to line up the next cut.

The action of moving the fence to the next cut only adds seconds to the process. The beauty is, if you do something completely stupid (like I can do most times), you can always go back to the start to repeat the cuts as the setup doesn't change or need changing.

I've never used other jigs. The Gifkins tempts me with it's ability to vary the pin sizes so much, I was actually in line at the Gifkins stand on Saturday but had second thoughts, but the Incra gives you the ability to do box joints, half blind, and through dovetails without needing any add ons apart from a router bit.

If there is a drawback it would be the need to match the stock thickness to the bit you are using for through dovetails, so a thicknesser becomes a really useful item, but that's all I can think of. Box joints and half blinds are no problem. Most of the showy double joints and corner post eagletails etc. are just a variation on a half blind dovetail.

The best thing is they are shiny and gold and look good on your router table, so people automatically assume I must know what I'm doing, even when I don't!!

[damian]

Funny! :)

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=70974

a gentleman says his is a pain to use and the only thing I could imagine is the repositioning...

Anyway as I said while it's nice to be able to cut finger/dovetail I bough the fence mainly as a fence with the jointing as an aside.

Now if it would only arrive. I'm not normally anxious about parcels (and I recieve a few) but with 2 things lost this year I've just lost faith in the postal system. The router plate was sent same day and arrived friday, but the fence wasn't there as of last night.

By the way the magnalock plate doesn't impress me. They cast incra and the part number into the aluminium. I know it's unlikely but there is a slight chance the cut could be disrupted by the job riding over those indentations. The point of a router table is to be FLAT and SMOOTH. The instructions don't ahve a diagram for the cutout in the table either. The ring system is good.

[Big Shed]

Damian, you will be very happy with the Incra. I have the Incra LS17 with Wonderfence and it is one of the best additions to my shed I have ever made. As dovetail jig it does everything I want it to do and the Wonderfence is the best routerfence I have ever used.

I have also made provision for the LS on my tablesaw as a positioner for small (mainly box) stuff, where I want the accuracy and easy repeatability. And yes, I also have the Wixey digital fence, your comments re quick accurate lockdown are pertinent here.

Brilliiant system.


Don't know where you bought your LS25, but if from the US, then your supplier should have given you a tracking number.

[damian]

Unfortunately they posted the plate and fence/mitre tracks seperately. I have the tracking number for the plate and of course it's arrived. They only sent it last monday so the plate arrived in ridiculously quick time. They didn't supply the number for the other package, but they probably have it on record.

I'm not in any hurry, but because of my previous bad experiences I'm a bit paranoid. I really don't want it to go missing and have to wait through an insurance claim (I had them insure it for the full amount) and try again.

When you offset the base from your cutter did you do the length from the standard fence (like in the owners manual) or the wonderfence ? the WF looks like it's another 2" or something. I am going to use the 6 through holes in the oval base thing to threaded inserts in the table. I am guessing I can index to 4 holes toward the tool for using the standard fence or away for extra throat. I believe the oval thing is 9" so there should be about 2-3" either way.

Anyway I'll measure everything up when it comes.

I bought the incra because it looks pretty idiot proof, which should suit me a treat :D

[Big Shed]

Unfortunately they posted the plate and fence/mitre tracks seperately. I have the tracking number for the plate and of course it's arrived. They only sent it last monday so the plate arrived in ridiculously quick time. They didn't supply the number for the other package, but they probably have it on record.

I'm not in any hurry, but because of my previous bad experiences I'm a bit paranoid. I really don't want it to go missing and have to wait through an insurance claim (I had them insure it for the full amount) and try again.

When you offset the base from your cutter did you do the length from the standard fence (like in the owners manual) or the wonderfence ? the WF looks like it's another 2" or something. I am going to use the 6 through holes in the oval base thing to threaded inserts in the table. I am guessing I can index to 4 holes toward the tool for using the standard fence or away for extra throat. I believe the oval thing is 9" so there should be about 2-3" either way.

Anyway I'll measure everything up when it comes.

I bought the incra because it looks pretty idiot proof, which should suit me a treat :D


Damian, I used threaded inserts to mount the base plate and put in extra ones so I have the choice of where to put it, depending on whether I am using the Wonderfence or not.


I have done a thread on my router table which I think shows this. If you need any measurements just ask, bearing in mind that I have the LS17 not the LS25 (which I should have bought!).

[damian]

could you point me at that thread ?

Well I regret not getting the 32" positioner :) so you can't win.

Maybe if I buy a 32 you can buy my 25 :D

I've been curious about the measurements since I ordered, but it's pointless to bother you. When it arrives I'll finess my model. I've built a rough model of the cabinet and it'll only take 1/2 hour to fix it once I have numbers. computer modelling is what I do all day so...(when I'm not slacking off posting here)

Thank you for your advice. I'm afraid we've drifted off the origional topic a bit...:C I love those funny little faces...

[Big Shed]

That thread is here (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=47602&highlight=incra+table).

One of the difficulties with the Incra stuff is that no one stocks it here, so you can't go and have a touch and feel. Although I bought it from PWS, I was sorely tempted to get it from the US. If you are going to buy a "pig in a poke" you may as well get the best deal. That's what I finished up doing with my Wixey digital fence.

[damian]

I found it just after I posted last. I've always been hopeless at finding stuff online.

Where did you get BLACKWOOD SLABS ? envious...:) I've got a couple of nice planks but SLABS....$!

Timbecon is in WA and PWS in Vic, I'm outside Brisbane. I appreciate that they sponsor the forum, but $500 is a lot of difference.

I have another question, which probably belongs in your other thread. I had intended to make separate cabinets for the saw and router and hook dust extraction up to each. I note you retained a feed from the router proper as well as the hole in the wall. Was the latter not enough alone ? I was also looking at hooking up the extraction from the wondrfence to take care of table top chips...Thoughts ?

I was also looking at running the cords straight out of the bench onto the floor and putting one of those inline safety switches from timbecon under my foot so I can kill power instantly. I'd prefer another switch though, I'm not 100% sure if that one will do what I want. I like a big red button sticking out the top.

I read the which dovetail jig is best thread also. Very interesting. Lots of leigh enthusiasts out there...

Again thanks for your thoughts.

[*Kev]

Thanks guys for your input.

As I can only choose one it sounds like the Incra would be the most versatile with it's router fence capabilities.

One other thing - how many different dovetail and straight bits will I need to use the Incra?

I checked some of the prices from US suppliers. I wish I lived over there. Everything is so cheap - $129US for the Ultralite compared to $330 over here.

Maybe I should suggest a holiday to the US to the missus and bring home a suitcase full of goodies:U.

[damian]

If you want to cut dovetails you need 1 dovetail bit. If you want to cut finger joints you need 1 straight bit. If you want to cut different size dovetails/finger you need 1 bit for each size you want to cut. There are as many opinions on how many different bits you'll WANT as there are woodworkers :) For dovetails it's usually a 1/4 and a 3/8 or 1/2 bit or something...I've got a couple of the triton ones from the sale the other week and I've got some cheapie 1/4" bits.

There is nothing stopping you buying from the US. That's what I've just done. There is nothing to stop you emailing them for a shipping quote. All they can say is we don't ship to Australia....

I bought from an incra online dealer and paid about $160 shipping on an LS25 super. The ultralite should be less than that. Be aware that Elite and at least one other online dealer operate from Canada and shipping is a LOT dearer from there.

Elite list on ebay. There is also an ultra 3 system on ebay, or was recently and didn't get a bid. $250US for a 24" system including base plate. Don't think it has a wonder fence but you probably don't need it.

From what you've said I'd say the ultralite would do you very nicely. If you buy new and your building a router table consider asking for a miter track to be thrown into the package. For an extra $10US or something, they are a lot more than that here.

AND MY FENCE ARRIVED LAST NIGHT (does the dance of the happy man). I haven't examined it as closely as I might yet but it is a beautiful thing. From what I've seen very high quality. The DVD is 80 minutes, somewhat repetitive and dull but it explains thoroughly how to assemble the machine and cut various joints, profiles etc.

[Big Shed]

Thanks guys for your input.

As I can only choose one it sounds like the Incra would be the most versatile with it's router fence capabilities.

One other thing - how many different dovetail and straight bits will I need to use the Incra?

I checked some of the prices from US suppliers. I wish I lived over there. Everything is so cheap - $129US for the Ultralite compared to $330 over here.

Maybe I should suggest a holiday to the US to the missus and bring home a suitcase full of goodies:U.


I bought the Torquata RBIS8 (http://www.timbecon.com.au/products/torquata-router-bit-sets-345_0.aspx) set from Timbecon, they had a special on at the time, from memory I paid just over $100. You don't have to buy the set, you can buy them individually as you need them. Most of the US suppliers supply Incra bit sets as well and you could investigate them. There is also a supplier on Ebay who lists sets regularly.

Oh, and I am very happy withe results I get with the Torquata bits.

[NCArcher]

So what was the outcome *Kev.
Are you the happy owner of an Incra yet?
I ask because I expect delivery of mine any day now. :U
Although i have to build a new router table before i get to play with it. :doh:

[*Kev]

Yeah, it arrived a couple of weeks ago. I've only played aroung with it so far - a couple of box joints etc as I don't have any dovetail bits yet.

It's very easy to use and is very accurate.

So far I'm very happy with the results.

I've been concentrating on finishing my router table too. Almost completed the dust extraction for it on the weekend. I've copied a few router table and dust extraction ideas from others and so far it's working well. I'll post a photo when I finally finish it.

Kev

[Mike Wingate]

When using the correct bits with dimensioned timber. The Incra kit is a joy to use, and so quick and accurate.

[psikes]

I have been using my Ultralite for about 2 weeks now and enjoy it more every time I go to use it. A little bit of a learning curve at first with some new terminology but now I am making box joints and even made some half blind dovetails a few days ago. I am finding that bits are very important with this jig, especially on box joints. 3/8 of an inch does not always equal 3/8 in different bits. I am waiting on a set from Whiteside to arrive today.

Phil