TCT tip tools etc

[hughie]

Crocy,

What you probably need is the Cermets range of tips they have a life span much greater than any TCT tooling. You can sharpen them with a green grinding wheel, price wise they are just about the same as the white type

Failing that Ceramics ie Silicon Nitride or Cubic Boron Nitride. These tools can machine materials with a hardness up to Rockwell C 45-70.

If your feeling wealthy have a look at PCBN or PCD tips
PCBN = Polycrystalline Diamond Tipped Carbide Inserts, PCD = Solid Polycrystalline Diamond Inserts.

The down side is you cant sharpen them. They go back to the manufacturer for refurbishment. I have been told its done at the molecular level, that is they rearrange the molecules along the cutting edge to produce the sharpness.

Are they any good? Well I have seen the them mold/mill a 12mm bead on fibre cement boards [ Hardieplank] 4.5m long in 11.4 seconds all day long.
Fibre cement these days consists of wood pulp for reinforcing, cement, silica sand. The silica content would be far in excess of any timber on the planet.

TeaLady,

Not sure what shape your US tool is, but below is a pic of what are the standard tips etc. You could get one specially made, but........could be pricey.

[hughie]

Heres a little back info on tip tooling for an engineering point of view. Most of these are standard items in the industry and with the exception of PCB and PCBN, all are throw type consumables.

Carbides including ultra fine grades and coated grades.

Tough and hard wearing but not able to stand too much shock treatment. In this regard HSS is far better. The ultra fine grades are used to produce a good finish, any coating is there to prolong the cutting edge.

Cermet

Is a composite of Titanium Carbide and Titanium Nitride, good for light roughing and high speed fine cuts. Can handle a fair amount of shock so its good for cleaning up castings etc. The faster you go the better the finish. Generally considered to be 15-20 times the tool life of the lesser carbide tip tools.

Ceramics

AL2O3 and Si3N4 or Aluminium Oxide and Silicon Nitride

Is a metal Oxide composite that can handle machining hard materials up to around 65 Rockwell C Its very good for high speed machining ie 1000-1500 m/min

PCBN

Polycrystalline Cubic Boron Nitride. This stuff is as hard as diamonds and can be used in rough work up to 70 Rockwell C . Has a life expectancy 30 time greater than carbide. It has diamond hardness along with the toughness of a carbide.

PCD

Polycrystalline Diamond This stuff is made out of diamonds, they are sintered tools using diamond dust and a powdered base metal, dunno what sort. Has cutting speeds up around 2000m/min. life span is greater than PCBN and is used on non ferrous as well as non metal materials ie Fibro

PCBN and PCD are very expensive. Fibre cement spindle molding heads are well in excess of $1000, and from memory with four cutters.

[tea lady]

So where exactly is the cutting face? Do all the shapes have a cutting edge all the way around? A Square one could be useful. But also a tear drop shape or semicircle. But for pottery they need to be attached to the handle like a little hat (I'm sure there is a bit of jargon that perfectly discribes this, but I can't think of it.:p) 'cause the tool is pulled across the surface rather than pushed. (Backwards to woodturning.)

Thanks for all the info Hughie. Very interesting.:2tsup:

[hughie]

TeaLady,

Can you post a pic that would explain more easily?

[Old Croc]

Your reply has been very helpfull, to source most of this stuff will mean a lot of research but it might give me the cutter I need. The only other problem is most companies only sell the inserts in packs of 5 or 10 and this is very expensive to try out. It is only the sap wood that is causing the most wear on my tools. Tea Lady sounds like she needs a mushroom shaped tool to pull through the clay.
Thanks for taking the time to put this together, and if you pass through Townsville the choice of the timber rack is yours,:2tsup:
regards,
Crocy.

[Cliff Rogers]

I'm interested Croc, if you find a supply & they want you to buy a pack, I'm sure we can find a few takers to share them. :2tsup:

[hughie]

But also a tear drop shape or semicircle. But for pottery they need to be attached to the handle like a little hat

Hmm here you go, this is what I have made for a couple of hollowing scrapers. The angles are a bit fierce and so they cut real aggressively.

I have had a bit of look around on the net but still would like a pic of your US made one if you can.

As to cutting edges, they pretty well cut along all the edges. Some square type can be turned over and so have 8 cutting faces.

[TTIT]

I'm interested Croc, if you find a supply & they want you to buy a pack, I'm sure we can find a few takers to share them. :2tsup:I reckon I'd have a go at one too - count me in.:U


......... The angles are a bit fierce and so they cut real aggressively.
.........."Fierce" is the understatement of the year Hughie!!! Ouch!:;:U

[rsser]

I'll be in it, if it's a square one with a hole.

[BobL]

Mee too! if its square with a hole

I scrounged a couple of small rectangular metal working carbide tipe from work with one or two cutting edges left on them but I'd prefer to get some decent square ones.

Cheers

[Pat]

Hughie, do you mean like these (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/3PCE-REPLACEMENT-INDEXABLE-CARBIDE-TIP-FITS-BORING-BAR_W0QQitemZ260251788832QQihZ016QQcategoryZ12578QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) on Fleabay?

[tea lady]

My Dad made me a tool with those blades on. But they need to be angles too shallow for use in pottery. (I need photos don't I?:doh:) The little line around the edge you can see is a concave groove. Need ones with a bevel on the outside edge.

[hughie]

do you mean like these (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/3PCE-REPLACEMENT-INDEXABLE-CARBIDE-TIP-FITS-BORING-BAR_W0QQitemZ260251788832QQihZ016QQcategoryZ12578QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) on Fleabay?


Yeah but not exactly that shape.



(I need photos don't I?:doh:) The little line around the edge you can see is a concave groove. Need ones with a bevel on the outside edge.



:U yep, or a scanned drawing of what you need

[artme]

Great info Hughie!:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

Should go in a library!

[WOODbTURNER]

Check out www.easywoodtools.com (http://www.easywoodtools.com)
I got one off him. The tool machining is A1 and the cutter tips are razor sharp and work great. Moves wood very easily.
With the Oz $ so strong these days its just about on par with the USA $.
The postage was only 4 days (USPS) to Darwin which craps over Australia Post.

[Cliff Rogers]

I have ordered some tips off them... the cost of the postage was half the price of the order. :~

[WOODbTURNER]

I have ordered some tips off them... the cost of the postage was half the price of the order. :~

Cliff,

The idea is to fill the postage box with as much as possible. I got his shaft and deflector and different spare cutters and screws to make up several tools. The box was definately oversized and cost me $25.00 which I think is quite reasonable compared to Australia Post charges.

Cheers

[Cliff Rogers]

They don't make that clear when you order.
My shipment arrived this arvo, definately fast, it was posted in the US on 20/6 & arrived in Malanda (not a big city) on 26/6 & there was a weekend in that time.
It cost me $35AUD. :cool:
Photos here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?p=760425#post760425).

[WOODbTURNER]

They don't make that clear when you order.
My shipment arrived this arvo, definately fast, it was posted in the US on 20/6 & arrived in Malanda (not a big city) on 26/6 & there was a weekend in that time.
It cost me $35AUD. :cool:
Photos here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?p=760425#post760425).

Cliff,
You seemed to have been charged a lot for postage for what you got.
I asked Craig to give me a goods invoice and quote for postage by USPS Prioritory Mail which was AU$26.50. This worked out to be approx. 10% of my goods cost.The box was approx. 300 x 300 x 100mm.

[Cliff Rogers]

My goods all fitted inside on A5 padded post bag & that was put in a satchel 300 x 380 x about 40mm thick.

[tea lady]

Got around to doing the pics of my pottery turning tool. Just to satisfy the curious as to the difference between wood turning and turning pottery. The tool is Pulled against the work, not pushed. The clay is usually "leather hard" which means it is still kinda soft but you can't really form it into another shape very well. You can pick it up without putting a finger print in it. And when you turn it at this stage you get curlies like in wood turning. With the TC tools I can turn the clay when DRY. Which you can't do with a normal ordinary SS loop tool because it blunts before you have completed one "foot ring" Even with turning Leather hard it still blunts the tool very quickly, and requires filing sharp every piece or two. (You would prolly work on about 3 dozen pieces at a time, Taking approx. 2.5 to 3 hours depending how finicky you are. Throwing them all in one session and tuning and finishing the next day or so when they have dried to the right stage.)

Pic one- My TC tuning tool, and method of use. (Sorry about really bad handle. The handle it came with was WAY too small, so I bunged it into a horrid file handle. Turning a nice new handle for it is next weeks project I swear.) The "blade" attatches perpendicular to the handle,

Pic two- an ordinary loop tool. Too small again. I don't know why they are either too small or too big.:rolleyes:

Pic three- the tools and the wheel head. and the bottom of a cup with a turned foot ring.

PS- band-aide is not hiding a woodwork injury, but a cleaning injury. Lesson # 973- do not clean.:D

So there you are. Don't know who is really interested. But I said I'd post Pics so I did.:rolleyes:

[Cliff Rogers]

More pics of the tool tips I bought here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?p=762190&posted=1#post762190).

[regulated]

Hey

I just found these from sutton tools. May be able to shape these into the designs you want.

http://www.sutton.com.au/uploads/downloads/Industrial_Products/Toolbits/IPD05ToolBits_carbide.pdf
http://www.sutton.com.au/uploads/downloads/Industrial_Image_Library/Industrail_Images_Miscelleanous/ToolBits/C0210-toolbitsbw.JPG
http://www.sutton.com.au/IndustrialToolbits

Also my father in law told me there is a shop called shaw's in Redcliffe in the industrial estate that has a big cupboard full of all different shaped TCT cutters. I will be checking it out this weekend and will let you know.

BJ

[hughie]

Re Suttons

Would be looking at the Cobalt and leave the rest, even though its high grade HSS a bit more than we get in standard turning tools.

[Cliff Rogers]

More pics of the tool tips I bought here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showpost.php?p=764655&postcount=62).

[regulated]

I've been told that this place or one very close to the intersection of Robinson road and newman road in geebung makes tct bits in various shops.

Northside Power Tools
360 Newman Rd
Geebung QLD 4034 - map
ph: (07) 3265 6388
http://www.whereis.com/QLD/Geebung/360_Newman_Rd#session=MTI=

[regulated]

Just been over to Shaw's Machinery and Tampico in Redcliffe and both had tips that could be used on this tool. Most of them are square or triangle shape with about a 7mm hole in them. I bought a square one from Shaw's for $9. Some good looking ones at Tampico for about $20. Unfortunately the screw on my Gregory machinery multi tool is 8mm. So now I just need to make a tool holder to fit them. Now I just need to find some round ones for making the roughing real easy.

BJ