PDR, a good boat for a beginner? Can I use Hoop Pine plywood?

[nickpullen]

Hi everyone, Mik,

I just wondering, having NEVER even set foot on a sail boat, and knowing very little about sailing, would the PDR be a good boat to learn/start sailing on?

Also, where do I start?

I figured, the way fuel prices are going, we'll end up becoming boat people to get around, might as well learn the art, a bi like that old movie waterworld.

Thanks.

[robhosailor]

I just wondering, having NEVER even set foot on a sail boat, and knowing very little about sailing, would the PDR be a good boat to learn/start sailing on?


How weight are you? How tall are you?
I think - PDR is good first boat for begginer but not for big man.

If you are looking for small family boat for begginer from MIK's boats choose GIS - you can to learn sailing with reefed sail and you have "normal" (not cartopper but suitable for 1-3 persons) boat for daysailing in future.

:)

[Boatmik]

Howdy Nick

The GIS is a boat with capability to grow into...

... but if you want to learn how to sail properly without breaking the bank then the PDR is easily the best way to go.

When you get the hang of the sailing thing then you can decide which way to go and if you have done some material scrounging and used second hand stuff or fingerjointed pine (it is not OK EVERYWHERE but there are lots of places it is OK) then you should be able to keep the price down closer to $350 than $1200.

Then when you go to sell - you will be able to get most if not all your money back.

So if you like the Goat and want to go that way ... that is best ... but if you are trying to get a feel for the sailing thing and work out where you want to go with it the PDR will do a bit of everything for you.

It is a small boat, but it has a very large potential displacement - our OZ PDRs sail quite well with two aboard so if you are less than about 146kg then the PDR will manage fine.

The reason for the rule requiring such a big bottom curve is to allow it to carry heaps of weight.

[Boatmik]

Remember too that the PDR with a bit of care and preparation can do anything from this

YouTube - PDRacer - Learning to Sail

To this (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=73928)
http://www.texas200.com/images/route2.jpg

MIK

[nickpullen]

I like... So i can use hoop pine for the construction? I am able to get it in lengths of 5m up here.. or would I still be better to use a higher quality timber? Is there a materials list for the Oz PDR as there is for the Eureka?

Thanks,

[Boatmik]

Howdy Nick ... Hoop and PDRs don't really get on well -

they make it that damn fool 2400 x 1200 rather than the world standard 2440 x 1220.

Grrrrrrrrr.

But if you can get 5000 long sheets it is still possible! If only 2400 long sheets were available you would have to get the standard sheet of 6mm but get three 4mm thick and make some little pieces out of the spare sheet.

BUT There are some tolerances available to use in the PDR rules and some changes

So if you built the boat at a width of 1200mm then you would probably need to order
1 x sheet 6mm ply 2400 x 1200
1 x big sheet 4mm ply 5000 x 1200

If the faces of the exterior grade ply were OK and few voids (most hoop is pretty good) there would be no worries in using that.

There would be quite a few cascading changes though for you to keep track of.

1/ Make the boat narrower by 20mm
2/ Make the side decks and the side tanks narrower by 10mm - this means
a/ remember to make the ends of the side tank on Frame #2 narrower by 10mm
b/ remember to move the cleat on the transom frame that the side tank face glues so that the side tank ends up 10mm narrower
c/ when the side tank face is glued in remember to move the alignment marks on the cockpit floor to make the side tanks 10mm narrower.

If only 2400 x 1200 hoop is available see if you can buy an offcut instead of a full sheet - I'd probably be getting a quarter sheet extra - and some feedback here would be nice to make sure it works!!! Otherwise getting a whole sheet is the safest. The biggest extra mod in addition to the above is
1/ the side panels won't be long enough - mark them out using the plan measurements. When the ply is not long enough just leave off a little triangle at the bow end of the side panels. The whole boat can be assembled and then the little triangles cut out of scrap and glued on later.

Best wishes
Michael

[nickpullen]

Thanks Mik,
But, I think i should have worded my question better, I intend on using marine grade ply, it was the rest of the timber I was asking about, specifically the mast and other bits, not the ply..

Thanks.

[nickpullen]

OR!, would it be a good idea to build the sailing rig for the Eureka instead? Im looking at going for some beginners sailing lessons, they use sabots up here...

[Boatmik]

Howdy Nick - a sailing canoe with an auxiliary rig will always be a sailing canoe with an auxiliary rig with many compromises. The largest are the lack of stability and the slowness to turn because canoes need to be directionally stable.

The PDR is a kick @ss sailboat any way you look at it - it will teach you very well indeed. It goes, it spins, it capsizes. It goes quick if you do the right things and goes slower if you don't.

With a canoe you will never know if you are making the mistake or the canoe is.

MIK

[nickpullen]

?

Thanks Mik,
But, I think i should have worded my question better, I intend on using marine grade ply, it was the rest of the timber I was asking about, specifically the mast and other bits, not the ply..

Thanks.

[b.o.a.t.]

Im looking at going for some beginners sailing lessons, they use sabots up here...

Forget the Sabot idea mate !
When I was 25yrs more agile & 25kg lighter than I am now I'd
ship water over a transom corner every second or third tack !

Been watching the PDR videos & wishing it had been available
a few years ago when I was trying to teach my kids to sail.

cheers
AJ

[nickpullen]

Thanks for the heads up boat...

I think what I'll do is build the PDR over then next 5 months and then it will be ready for the summer holidays and I can learn in my own boat, also I wont have to worry about wreaking someone elses expensive "yacht"...

Is there and online register of PDR # and names, I thought of a good one last night, just wanted to check if its taken. I supose names can be re-used. it was "Duck About". hehe

Also, Mik, ignore my questions about timeber. I took the time and actually read the whole pdracer.info site and it pretty much answered everything i needed to know, and then some. great site!!!

[m2c1Iw]

[quote=nickpullen;759553]
Is there and online register of PDR # and names, I thought of a good one last night, just wanted to check if its taken. I supose names can be re-used. it was "Duck About". hehe
[quote]

Here (http://www.pdracer.com/) you go Nick it's in the register your boat heading.

BTW you failed the reading comprehension test:D

Cheers
Mike

[Boatmik]

Sorry Nick - I put a reply up last night but possibly didn't save it before heading off on a regional trip.

With our Mk1 OZ PDRs we used a lot of fingerjointed radiata.

much of the timber that is used to hold the plywood panels together can be fingerjointed radiata.

However there are some bits that cannot be fingerjointed.
mast
boom
chine log laminations
Carlins
long timbers in the tiller
The two pieces that go across the bottom of the boat in front of and behind the centreboard case
The one piece of timber that goes across the boat at the top front of the centrecase.
The top edge stiffener for the transom

You could use hoop pine for these or radiata if you can find clear lengths.

But everything else can be fingerjointed. The rule is if the bit has plywood glued to two different faces then it will hold the fingerjointing together.

Michael