Tassie Oak Burl Platter

[Cliff Rogers]

This is a work in progress & has links to another thread.

I picked up this bit of burl at the TWWW show in Brissy in May.
It is still a bit damp but it has warped & cracked since it was cut into a blank.

I tried out the new Easywood square tip (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showpost.php?p=764655&postcount=62) during the roughing process.

I mounted the blank in my large jaws with the bumpy side out. Picture 1.

Because I had it in the large jaws, I couldn't run it very fast & I tried roughing with the Easywood Rougher square tip & also with my good old Henry Taylor HS1 Superflute.

It took a bit of getting used to, it sharp edge peels the timber off & it quickly wedges under the lip of the retaining screw & bunches up stalling the cut. I have since found that this does not happen at a higher cutting speed.
It was easy to get a very flat profile on the blank but as you would expect, there is a fair bit of tear out. Picture 2.
I switched back to my tried & trusted HT Superflute & found that at the lower speed, I could rough out the blank much faster with a less torn finish but because of the uneven grain in the burl, the surface had lots of ripples from the gouge. Picture 3.

Picture 4 shows the piece reversed into the jaws, cleaned up with the Superflute & a recess was cut for the jaws with my purpose made dovetail scraper.

I then flipped it over again onto a set of jaws expanded into the recess shown in pic 4.
The speed could now be increased so I was able to use the Easywood Rougher tip to quickly shape the bottom of the platter.
The finish off the Easywood is still torn (Picture 5) so I switched back to my good old Superflute & used it rolled over on the side as a shear scraper & cleaned up the torn grain.

To be continued. :)

[Harry72]

Looking good so far:p

[dai sensei]

Interesting Cliff, keep the pics and commentary coming.

I ordered my tool and tips today, so I will be following your progress.

[Cliff Rogers]

First impressions.... positive but reserved at this stage.

I could live without it but, now that I have it, I could find a use for it. :rolleyes:

Not good at low speed. :no:

Cuts best at higher speed & forms profiles best by moving it sideways across the piece... IE, plunge it in flat & square & then scan/pan it.
Drag or push it so it cuts on a corner on the very tip of one of the side faces with the front face following the cut profile like rubbing the bevel on a gouge.

I could not have cut such an even profile in picture 5 above with just my gouge alone but, I still needed to clean up the torn grain.

I used the square cutter mounted on the rounded side of the tool holder so the flat was square on the tool rest.
The next step will be to try one of the doomed cutters mounted on the flat side of the tool holder with the round side on the tool rest so it can be rolled over to do a shear scrape.

[robyn2839]

are the square cutters carbide or just hss ,i have been chasind carbide to replace my hss ones that came with the jet multi head scraper i just bought ,it came with a round ,square and teardrop tip ,but they are very soft for hss.......................bob
ps if they are carbide , where did you get tham?, thanks cliff

[Cliff Rogers]

Yup, follow the link in my first post.

See also, this thread (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=74490).

[robyn2839]

sheee i,m dumb, thanks cliff...........bob

[Hardenfast]

Watching with interest, Cliff. A hard old piece of Tassie Oak will certainly be a challenge for most tools - especially a burled piece.

Also interesting that you started with "the big jaws" and then mounted it in a more conventional chuck. I've little experience at this stage, but I thought the process usually went the other way?

It would seem that the Square Tip would be very prone to dig-ins judging by the amount it protrudes from the holder base - especially the corners?

Wayne

[Cliff Rogers]

Thanks Wayne.

The blank was already roughly round but it had no chuck mount on it.
I could have drilled a hole in it & stuck it on a screw but the start I still hadn't decided which would be top & which would be bottom so I cleaned up the 2 faces & had a look at what the grain, cracks, bark, features were doing before I decided.

[Woodwould]

Does the tip not require a register? I would have thought with even the smallest amount of vibration that it would work loose and revolve about the screw.

It's looks like it will be a nice bowl.

[Cliff Rogers]

It hasn't come loose yet.

[Stu in Tokyo]

Cliff, I'd use the r4 tip, not the square tip for this work.

Is the bar that you are using, round on the bottom, the part that meets the tool rest? If it is, it might be more difficult to use........?

I find the square bar helps keep everything lined up and square to the ways and cutting smoothy.

Did you see this video of the "Finishing Cut" that Craig put up?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KrWHEvx4KI

Still, this is a "Roughing" tool, and is not designed to replace all the tools in your tool rack!

Cheers!

[artme]

Looking good Cliff!:2tsup::2tsup:

Thanks for the reminder on the finishing cut Stu.:2tsup:

[hughie]

Cliff,
Given your using a burl it does not surprise me about the tear out. Burl grain [for me] best responds to a very sharp gouge with light cuts for finishing.

I have a home made silver steel gouge that I like to use at this point.


Stu's point about the R4 tip is well taken, look forward to further pics.

So far so good. :U

[Hardenfast]

The blank was already roughly round but it had no chuck mount on it.
I could have drilled a hole in it & stuck it on a screw but at the start I still hadn't decided which would be top & which would be bottom so I cleaned up the 2 faces & had a look at what the grain, cracks, bark, features were doing before I decided.

Hmmm... Makes perfect sense to me now. I wish I had thought of that with the few solid pieces I've turned. I have always seemed to turn away the best parts. Next time....

[Howdya do that]

Nice bowl Cliffy:2tsup:

[Cliff Rogers]

...Is the bar that you are using, round on the bottom, the part that meets the tool rest? If it is, it might be more difficult to use........? ....

It is half round, flat one side.
I can mount the bit on either side.

Currently I am using it flat side down but I will have a go with a doomed bit with the round side down to try it as a shear scraper.

This is what I meant when I said....

I used the square cutter mounted on the rounded side of the tool holder so the flat was square on the tool rest.
The next step will be to try one of the doomed cutters mounted on the flat side of the tool holder with the round side on the tool rest so it can be rolled over to do a shear scrape.

[Stu in Tokyo]

It is half round, flat one side.
I can mount the bit on either side.

Currently I am using it flat side down but I will have a go with a doomed bit with the round side down to try it as a shear scraper.

This is what I meant when I said....

Doomed.........:? Oh, you mean the cutters that have a radius on them :doh: :U

I was sitting here scratching my head wondering why one of your cutters was "Doomed" I was really wondering what you were up to :U

Thanks for the chuckle, nice to see it is not just me that does this all the time :- :)

I think the rounded bar for the shear scraping might be the ticket for getting a better finish cut.

Keep us posted!

Cheers!

[Cliff Rogers]

Domed....... funny, I don't remember being absent minded. :rolleyes:

[artme]

with Hughie sharp tools. Always good but especially good for burls.

[Cliff Rogers]

Sorry, not getting much time on this job.

Quick update.

This morning I sanded the back and flipped it over.

I used the square bit to profile the outer edge to follow the profile on the bottom.
I cleaned up the torn grain as best I could with a light shear scrape with my HT superflute & took a couple of pics to show what I have to deal with.

The lip is now less that 6mm (1/4") & full of cracks & curly, torn grain but I don't dare push my luck with a steel tool any further so out with the good old 60grit gouge. :oo:

I got a 75mm (3") 60grit disk & mounted it on my rotary sander & used the lightest touch to get the sander going as fast as possible with just a hint of dust.
It cleaned up nicely. :2tsup:

If I had pushed too hard, I would have had big deep scratches, an uneven surface & risked breaking a piece out of it.

I took some more pics, as you can see, the torn grain is gone and all I have to do now is go down through the grits to clean up the sanding marks.

The shots are arranged as before & after the sanding so you can see the finish of the tools & then off the rotary sander.

[wheelinround]

Great work there Cliff :2tsup::2tsup:

do you moisten the wood to sand it creating a slurry or just dry sand from there.???

[tea lady]

What sand paper.......I mean 60grit gouge do you use? I was trying to sand a bit of figured red gum and it was taking the grit off the paper faster than it was smoothing the piece. (not power sanding:rolleyes:.......organic sanding:D)

[artme]

Good to see the torn stuph gone!:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

[DJ’s Timber]

so out with the good old 60grit gouge. :oo:



Keep hearing about this 60grit gouge from various forumites but can't say that I've ever seen one or what it looks like :doh::roll: :U

Any chance of you posting a pic of said gouge Cliff :2tsup:

:q:q:q:q:q:q:U

[Harry72]

60grit... I use the 36grit gouge!

[Cliff Rogers]

...do you moisten the wood to sand it creating a slurry or just dry sand from there.???
I don't have to on this piece, it is still damp. The fact that it is taking me several days to finish it is helping to dry it along the way.

What sand paper.......I mean 60grit gouge do you use? .... (not power sanding.......organic sanding)
It is a mixture of brands, mostly SIA, velcro backed stuff on one of Vic Woods rotary sanders.
It isn't really power sander, it is rotary sanding.

Keep hearing about this 60grit gouge from various forumites ...Any chance of you posting a pic of said gouge Cliff ...
Yup.... this is what mine looks like (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/rotary1.htm). :2tsup:

60grit... I use the 36grit gouge!
I have used a 36grit gouge on a big Rain Tree salad bowl but I used it mounted on an angle grinder & again, only very light touches in a wiping motion. :2tsup:

[Sawdust Maker]

Cliff
Nice work
I gather the first photo is straight after using the new fangled toy?

So what's your prognosis, or are you still playing?

[Cliff Rogers]

Cliff
Nice work...
Ta. :)


I gather the first photo is straight after using the new fangled toy?
Nup, 1st photo was the blank mounted before I started.
2nd pic is after a leveling cut with the Easywood.
3rd pic is the same cut but with a regular bowl gouge.

So what's your prognosis, or are you still playing?
At this stage, I still stand by what I said in post #4.

[hughie]

Cliff,
Keep on with the pics, I am enjoying this. I am also familar with the grit gouging process. :U

[Hardenfast]

Speaking of the 26/60 grit gouges, try using a 100mm grinder with a coarse "flap disc" on your piece with the lathe turning at medium speed. This really tears off some material quickly while still giving you good control of the action. Power sanding is probably not a technique for the purists, I guess, but useful when you have a fragile piece such as Cliff's which requires accurate removal of really hard material. The flap disc is small and manoevreable enough to use on the inside and outside of bowls.

[Sawdust Maker]

Is that the flap gouge? :D:D

[Cliff Rogers]

I have used the flapper wheels before, they tend to follow the soft wood so you will get a contoured finish that you may or may not want.

If you use a very stiff disk in an angle grinder with the lathe running quickly & only use light wipes over the timber, it doesn't dig out the soft wood as much.

[Cliff Rogers]

OK, some more progress but still not quiet finished yet.

The blank still has some moisture in it so I'm doing the sanding in stages.
I am also finishing the rim before I finish the hollowing as I am sure this piece will go out of round.

Yesterday I finished sanding the outer edge (rim) Pic 1.

Since Tassie Oak has a fair amount of Tannin, I had mixed up some Liquid Nightmare last weekend to give it a try. Pic 2.
This is a handful of steel wool in a jar of white vinegar left to stand for a week & then applied with a thick rag.

Result of the first coat after standing for several minutes. Pic 3.

Another light sand to remove the raised grain & show how far in the liquid goes. Pic 4.

Result of the second coat & a light scrape over the part to be hollowed to show th contrast. Pic 5

[Cliff Rogers]

Next to the hollowing of the bowl.

I mounted the 4" radius Easywood cutter on my tool holder. Pic 1 & 2.

Result. It is easy to get a flowing profile but it does tear the grain. Pic 3.

As a comparasion, I pulled out my trusty HT SuperFlute & made the same cut at the angle shown. Pic 4.

Result. much lest torn grain but you can see the rippled profile down near the tool rest. Pic 5.

I then rolled the HT over & made a pulling shear scrape with the bottom edge as shown. Pic 6.

Result. Sorry, buggered the focus but you can see the shavings sitting on the tool rest. Pic 7.

Here is another shot but I still missed the focus on the spot that had the badly torn grain from the Easywood. Pic 8.

You can see that the grain is still rough but this is because it is still damp.

Summary.
A scrape gives torn grain.
A cut with the bevel rubbing gives leass tearing but a rippled profile.
A shear scrape gives a bit of both worlds but is slow for roughing.

I think I'll stick with my HT 'cos I can do a fast push cut to rough out & roll it over & do a quick pull shear scrape to clean up the ripples.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

SuperFlute to the rescue! (I really should change my "Desert Island Tools" selection to include mine.)

It looks like there's some nice grain in that blank... hurry up and finish it so I can Oooh and Aah... and then nit-pick it. :p:D

[Cliff Rogers]

OK, I didn't give up on it yet. :D

I mounted the 2" radius tip on the flat side of my tool holder so I could try it as a shear scraper with the round side down. Pic 1, 2 & 3.

Pffftt... dud... there is too much flat on the round side so I had to move the tool rest too far away from the timber & it was not possible to control it.
I gave up that idea & swapped it over to the over side so I could use it flat side dowm.

Again, easy to get a smooth profile but the grain tears out badly. Pic 4.

Cleaned it up with my HT ready for sanding. Pic 5.

I have started the sandng but the timber is still a bit damp & clogging the paper so it is now sitting to dry for a while.

More pics to come over the next couple of days.

[Harry72]

So whats the verdict, are the cutters worth it?

[Cliff Rogers]

See post #4.

It won't replace my HT Superflute.

[dai sensei]

I ordered one with a few blades and it arrived today :2tsup: Now just have to make a handle to go with it.

It is meant for roughing out, so are you expecting too much from it? I assumed I would always finish with another tool.

[Cliff Rogers]

Handle? :? :D

[dai sensei]

Handle? :? :D

I ordered the metal tool, the guard, blades and spare screws, but not handle - I didn't like the shape of their handles

[TTIT]

Can't decide - do I really need another tool just for roughing down??!! Thanks for the no bull type review Cliff - maybe I'll borrow Jefferson's for a spin :shrug:

Never dreamed that steel-wool/vinegar thing would work that well - now I really will have to go try it. Crikey Cliff! - ya just keep makin' more work for a bloke :C

[tea lady]

Never dreamed that steel-wool/vinegar thing would work that well - now I really will have to go try it. Crikey Cliff! - ya just keep makin' more work for a bloke :C

I did a bit of a test of the Liquid Nightmare on Eucalypt burl veneer. It came out looking like crushed velvet, so this platter should look pretty specky.:2tsup:

[Cliff Rogers]

Neil, the comment about the handle is 'cos I often use a tool without the handle...
One of my HT Superflutes got a lot of use without a handle & the McJing tool holder that I'm using on this platter still doesn't have a handle. :D

Liquid Nightmare works well on anything with tannin in it.

I doesn't have to be a frothing bubbley red rusty smelly mess to work either.

The batch I made is only a week old.
It is a handfull of SIFA 0000 steel wool in a vegimite jar just covered with white wine vinegar.
It is still clear to look at from the side.

I hope to get some time in the shed tomorrow so I may have it finished tomorrow night.
:fingerscrossed:

[dai sensei]

Neil, the comment about the handle is 'cos I often use a tool without the handle...

:-:doh:

I found my the tool fits my Munro, so I could use the handle from that. I was going to make a handle from some of my Rose Sheoak stash, with a shape to match my Hamlets. I was thinking about a hollow at the end to hold the spare bits and screws, with a threaded end cap.

Sounds like a lot of work though, and the Vermec handle also appeals, so I will be taking a look at them at Jim's when I am down in Melbourne.

[Cliff Rogers]

As a note on that... the McJing tool holder doesn't fit the Vermec handle or I would have used it. :rolleyes:

[dai sensei]

I tried the feel of one at GPW today, but found it too short anyway. Is the insert dia too big?

[Cliff Rogers]

The spigot on the McJing tool holder is too big for the hole in the vermec handle.

Are you saying that you found the vermec handle too short?

Mine is 350mm & weighs 800gs. It has lead shot in it to dampen vibration.

[dai sensei]

I wanted my handle to be 400, but although the vermec was 350, the foam handle was only around 250. I found I was holding the foam in one hand, bare metal in the other, two hands together on the foam was too close.

I didn't measure the hole at the end, I roughly guessed it would be Ok, but obviously not. Same with my Munro, I'd better check it properly, got me worried now :U

[barnsey]

G'day Cliff,

How's that burl going?

You referred to: "I mounted the blank in my large jaws..."

Excuse my naivety but where do I get hold of such animals to fit my supernova?

I've got Cole Jaws - an invaluable addition but yours are obviously a heavier version.
I like :D

Jamie

[Cliff Rogers]

I have the big vicmarc bowl jaws (http://www.vicmarc.com/default.asp?contentID=591)on a VM140 vicmarc chuck. :2tsup:

[Cliff Rogers]

Had a container delivered this morning.... took 3 hours to unload & position & then get the truck out.... I'll have some lunch & get back to that platter this arvo. :2tsup:

[Cliff Rogers]

FINISHED! :2tsup:

I had problems with my PC so I'm using another one to update this thread.

1st pic is the top finished after sanding & polishing with EEE. (Ultrashine)
Sorry about the focus. :rolleyes:

2nd pic is the back after it came out of the chuck, then foot needs to be cleaned up.

3rd pic is the piece mounted in my big Vicmarc jaws ready to clean up.

4th shows the angle of attack with my HT SuperFlute. Sorry about the focus.

5th pic is the result of cutting the profile on the foot.

6th is after a shear scrape to clean up the gouge marks.

7th is sanded & polished with Ultrashine.

8th is the top ready for oil. Not I have attacked the cracks with a pyography tool to darken them.

9th is the back ready for oil.

10th is another angle of the top.... still hadn't been oiled at that stage.

The last shot is of the oil & the pyography tool.

[Cliff Rogers]

Damned computer just lost my last post & the spell checker isn't working. :~

[Cliff Rogers]

OK, lets try again.

The piece was oiled yesterday arvo & was dry enough to wrap at lunchtime today.
Tomorrow it is on a plane to London. :2tsup:

Tassie Oak Burl Platter 230mm x 20mm
Rim ebonised with Liquid Nightmare.
Sanded to 400.
Polished with EEE Ultrashine.
Cracks enhanced with a pyography tool.
Oiled with Danish Oil by Organ Oils.

[Cliff Rogers]

Summary of the Easyrougher tip test.

I could live without it BUT...

Now that I have them & have tried them, I won't be throwing them away.

I will use them for roughing bowl blanks.

[Caveman]

:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup: Nice one Cliff!

Been following this with interest - thanks for sharing.

Amazing how effective that liquid nightmare conconction is.

[artme]

:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:That has come up a treat Cliff. Congrats. on the progress posts, the useful comments and the Finished platter. Excellent!

[Howdya do that]

Had a container delivered this morning.... took 3 hours to unload & position & then get the truck out.... I'll have some lunch & get back to that platter this arvo. :2tsup:

Did you sit it on footings:? If so, how far apart:?

[Howdya do that]

BTW,

Nice bowl mate:2tsup:

[Cliff Rogers]

Did you sit it on footings:? If so, how far apart:?
Yup, too far apart. :rolleyes:

[Sawdust Maker]

Cliff

Very nice platter
top marks and thanks for the in work review of the easyrougher tips :2tsup:

[wheelinround]

Great WIP Cliff ending with a very nice work of art who ever receives it is gonna have a :D

[powderpost]

Good job Cliff.. :2tsup:
Jim

[Cliff Rogers]

Thank you all, it will be presented as a wedding present in London this weekend.

[tea lady]

Very nice. The liquid nightmare works really well on the Tassie oak. Beautiful shape too.:2tsup: