newbie to making lumber

[jimbo4261]

this old fart has just ordered a Echo 8000 and the Mark III lumber mill,,and would like to know if the chain that comes with the saw is ok to rip with,,also anyother advise on this set up,,thanks,,jim

[Burnsy]

Welcome Jimbo. Check out the small timber milling section for the details you are chasing. There is also a site in the US called the Arborist or something that has a tonne of info on it, I am sure someone will have the link and post it for you.

[artme]

G'day Jimbo and welcome to the Wagon.:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

Lesson one: We mostly make shavings and sawdust.:D:D:D

[jimbo4261]

I usually make a mess and then i build something,,,jim

[BobL]

G'day Jimbo and welcome to the Wagon.:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

Lesson one: We mostly make shavings and sawdust.:D:D:D

And some of us make a lot of noise!

Welcome Jimbo.

How long is your bar and what pitch chain does it have?

Depending on what pitch chain you have, the standard chain on it could be OK but over time I would sharpen it so that the top plate angle becomes around 10º which will give you a better finish and a slightly faster cut. If you are milling a lot of softer wood then a skip chain will speed up milling otherwise I'd just stay with a regular chain.

[jimbo4261]

I am expecting the saw tomorrow,,the mill bar??,,so i cant tell you much about the Echo 8000 but it does have the 36 inch bar,,,jim

[Ianab]

Echo CS8000 is an 80cc saw, so it's up into the sensible size for milling.

The chain that comes with it will cut, but you will do MUCH better with a proper ripping chain. The sharpening angle is different, and if you are using a longer bar, a full skip chain will actually cut faster.

The issue is that when you are ripping the teeth must cut through all the fibres in the wood using the top plate of the cutter. Very different cutting setup to normal chainsaw crosscutting. With a full complment chain, each tooth scrapes a small cut, through each fibre. But with a skip, or double skip, the cutters can take a decent cut without wasting power making super fine dust.

So yes it will work, just it can work a LOT better.

Ian

[weisyboy]

your chain will mill but it will mill mutch more in mutch less time if you get a full skip chain and i would not bother regrinding i have found that regrinding the angle to 10* makes the slab slightly smother but you cutting speed will be the same if not a little slower.

if the saw is set up with 404 chain then i would recomend reducing it to 3/8" this will improve cut speed and reduce timber wastage.

o yer a dont forget to post pics of your new toy when you get it befor it gets all dirty then pics of the first log. :2tsup:

Warning: Cahinsaw fumes and sawdust are adictive.

[BobL]

Everyone seems convinced that skip chains are better and I also was talked into get one (two actually) - well after trying both (skip and regular) I doubt I'll be going back to skip chain - the only advantage is they are quicker to sharpen but they also go blunt quicker because each individual cutter has a greater load on it than full comp chain. Who care's if you make a little more dust as long as it cuts faster. I haven't done a side by side comparison across a range of timbers but I reckon the skip chain is definitely slower and has to be changed more often on hardwoods.

[jimbo4261]

If (skip) is the same as (rip) then i will just use the chain that comes on the saw,,thanks,jim

[BobL]

If (skip) is the same as (rip) then i will just use the chain that comes on the saw,,thanks,jim

They are not the same.
- Rip refers to the cutting angle of the top of the cutter.
- Skip means fewer cutters.
Half skip has one link between a pair of cutter followed by two links between the next pair of cutters.
Full skip has two links between every cutter.
Regular or "full complement chain" has one link between every pair of cutters

This is my understanding of skip chain usage.
The whole idea of using skip chain comes from ripping with long bars. Skip has more space between the cutters so this space can hold more sawdust otherwise the space fills up and prevents the cutters from cutting. The same thing applies in handsaws, band saws and Table saw blades used for ripping - less TPI and more space between the teeth, especially when making long/deep cuts. This makes a lot of sense in softer woods including softer hardwoods where the cutters can easily make a deep cut and generate a lot of sawdust that they need to clear from the kerf. However, in hard to very hardwood the cutters simply can't bite much anyway without getting bogged (using a conventional even big Chain saw) so you won't clog the chain kerf with excessive sawdust anyway.[ If you have a 4 stroke 30HP engine driving the chain skip chain will work fine even in hardwood.] But hard wood places a lot of stress on individual cutters of a skip chain so you are kinder on the blade and bar by using full comp chain which spreads the load over more cutters. The downside is more cutters to sharpen but this is in turn compensated by the fact that regular chains also last longer between sharpening and the chain will last longer because it is not wearing out as quickly.

This is also why it's better/easier to cut steel with a high TPI saw (spread the forces over more teeth) but you can cut ally very successfully with a much lower TPI and it can quickly clog a high TPI blade.

Actual final cutting speeds will depend on your specific setup. On my 076 with 42" bar I find regular chain is faster than full skip but your mileage may vary.

[weisyboy]

i think you should have a play with the chain that comes with the saw. over about 3 sharpens reduce the angle back to 10* and see how it cuts. then make it into a skip chian (most dealers dont stock it anyhow and you have to by a 25ft roll) by removing 1 cutter in every 3. see how this cuts if you find i cats slower then go and buy another regular chain .

each person has there prefrence and the diferances are that small that it is hard to tell anyhow.

i am going to de a comparison of diferent chains on my 034AV cutting Shee Oak as i have heaps of logs almost exactly the same size.:2tsup:

[Ironwood]

I seem to remember part of the sales pitch for the skip chain, back when I was setting up for slabbing, was that because there were less teeth in the cut at any one time you got more power to each tooth, which helped keep engine speed up. Which probably explains why Weissy's 034 cuts quicker using skip chain.

Myself and two other guys used to mill quite a lot of hardwood (mainly Cooktown Ironwood). We all had Husky 3120's, a lot of weekends we would mill side by side, so it was easy to pick up on any variations in gear.
Two of us mainly used Oregon 27RA skip tooth chains, the other guy used mainly a conventional type chain (not sure of make or model).
Slabbing times were much the same, but at the end of the day we had cut more slabs, because sharpening times were heaps quicker for the skiptooth (we used to sharpen after each slab). The finish of the slab surface was much the same.

The dealer gave us a couple of loops of chain to try once, (27RX, I think). they had a set of cutters spaced about every 12 links or so. From memory the slabbing times still stayed much the same, they cut quick at first, but slowed towards the end of the slab as they bluntened quick. They were real quick to sharpen, but lasted about half as long as the 27RA, (had to file more off at each sharpen, 5-6 file swipes instead of the 3-4 normally). The finish on the slab was a bit rougher with these chains also.
These chains were going to be more expensive than 27RA, so we never used them again.
Still got one in the shed I'm saving for if I ever get a nice soft log one day, I reckon they would have been good on something that didn't blunten them so quick.

I think the moral of the story, is everyones situation is a bit different, so you just have try a few things until you find what suits you the best.

Edit- Went down the shed and checked out the 27RX chain, on a loop of chain for a 42" bar there are 18 teeth to sharpen. 11 links between a set of cutters

[weisyboy]

to give yo an idea of how my skip chain cuts i remilled some swamp cypress this arvo it took me 1 1/2 hour to mill

40m of 2" x 2"
34m of 3" x 2"
20m of 2" x 1"
4m of 3" x 3"

from 7" x 2" & 3" sleepers. the chain did not dull at all it was cutting just as fast in the end as it did in the begining. and i used about 300ml of fuel and 400ml of oil.

each cut threw 6" of timber and 2.2m long took about 35seconds start to finish. :2tsup:and i was getting the usual curly shavings not hte fine dust some people seam to get.